Aa
I'm in recovery but in pain, can I take...
Discussion/opinions?:
We see questions about wanting or needing to take a narcotic from people in recovery constantly, and almost invariably they are difficult to answer and usually receive relatively few responses when the physical problem is severe. However, when the physical problem that people want relief from is not *perceived* as being too severe by other people... the responses are relatively abrupt and numerous. But is the person in either circumstance any different from wanting some relief? How can we be certain when we tell someone with nasal problems that may be resulting in debilitating headaches or migraines that their problem isn't as painful as someone that just had 10 pins put in their leg after an automobile accident? We can't I don't think...
I faced this question myself recently with a kidney stone. I was fortunate enough that my episode was short enough I could get by without an opiate... but honestly, I really would have taken an opiate if the pain had hit me like it had the times before... I just would have advised the medical providers that I have 'a history' and would like any prescriptions to be non-refillable and short in duration.
Just looking for a reason to use an opiate as part of an addiction or looking for a solution to a migraine problem is the same thing as far as the brain is concerned no matter if you look at it psychologically/behaviorally or medically. But not for how people view themselves, and how other people respond to them and their problem.
I just don't think it's a matter of reaching some mystical level of awareness (i.e. 'waking up' or 'not making excuses') to prevent someone from making the decision to take a narcotic again. It's about recognizing that there will be times when it will seem or be logically tempting to use an opiate for a real problem... and coming up with better solutions. Asking for help in this area is beneficial. Hearing 'it's your mind playing tricks on you' is not.
We see questions about wanting or needing to take a narcotic from people in recovery constantly, and almost invariably they are difficult to answer and usually receive relatively few responses when the physical problem is severe. However, when the physical problem that people want relief from is not *perceived* as being too severe by other people... the responses are relatively abrupt and numerous. But is the person in either circumstance any different from wanting some relief? How can we be certain when we tell someone with nasal problems that may be resulting in debilitating headaches or migraines that their problem isn't as painful as someone that just had 10 pins put in their leg after an automobile accident? We can't I don't think...
I faced this question myself recently with a kidney stone. I was fortunate enough that my episode was short enough I could get by without an opiate... but honestly, I really would have taken an opiate if the pain had hit me like it had the times before... I just would have advised the medical providers that I have 'a history' and would like any prescriptions to be non-refillable and short in duration.
Just looking for a reason to use an opiate as part of an addiction or looking for a solution to a migraine problem is the same thing as far as the brain is concerned no matter if you look at it psychologically/behaviorally or medically. But not for how people view themselves, and how other people respond to them and their problem.
I just don't think it's a matter of reaching some mystical level of awareness (i.e. 'waking up' or 'not making excuses') to prevent someone from making the decision to take a narcotic again. It's about recognizing that there will be times when it will seem or be logically tempting to use an opiate for a real problem... and coming up with better solutions. Asking for help in this area is beneficial. Hearing 'it's your mind playing tricks on you' is not.
I would agree with what you said and how you said it. It makes sense when it's put in the light that, no an opiate is not going to address the specific problem effectively (even if it seems like it might).
A person definitely isn't crazy or drug seeking for thinking it might be helpful though, especially if they are unfamiliar with migraines. And pointing out exactly what you said is helpful (especially with Imitrex and Demerol) and addresses that. It's to the point and more accurate advice than concentrating on the past addiction exclusively.
I just think that jumping to the conclusion that because an opiate won't help = classic drug seeking is very often an incorrect assumption. One that we tend to be too ready to make, and jumping to that conclusion exclusively while ignoring everything else a person is saying (exactly like a lot of doctors will do, which pisses most of us off) is definitely ineffective (my opinion only) at helping someone make an informed decision to help themselves.
Imagine calling a doctors office, start explaining your problem about [whatever ails you] to the receptionist, and then stating you have overcome a problem with opiates in the past, but as soon as the 'a' word is out of your mouth, the receptionist says 'your mind is playing tricks on you' and hangs up... without even mentioning or addressing why you called in the first place. It happens all the time, often less directly, but because of the stigma attached to the 'a' word, and it's pointless. Acting along with that stigma could just as easily encourage someone towards using an opiate again without medical supervision (textbook 'abuse') as it is to dissuade them, especially if that person is on the fence about it ('what other option is there?' mentality). What if cigarette smokers were responded to in the same way? They certainly have just as much of an addiction as anyone else (minus the physical withdrawal severity). Yet we respond to a nicotine addiction (or even alcoholism) MUCH differently and people are encouraged to discuss it during doctors visits...
Again, I'm reiterating I am not making personal attacks. Call me a care-bear if you must (lol). Just feel it's an important topic to discuss and the responses are helpful for me.
A person definitely isn't crazy or drug seeking for thinking it might be helpful though, especially if they are unfamiliar with migraines. And pointing out exactly what you said is helpful (especially with Imitrex and Demerol) and addresses that. It's to the point and more accurate advice than concentrating on the past addiction exclusively.
I just think that jumping to the conclusion that because an opiate won't help = classic drug seeking is very often an incorrect assumption. One that we tend to be too ready to make, and jumping to that conclusion exclusively while ignoring everything else a person is saying (exactly like a lot of doctors will do, which pisses most of us off) is definitely ineffective (my opinion only) at helping someone make an informed decision to help themselves.
Imagine calling a doctors office, start explaining your problem about [whatever ails you] to the receptionist, and then stating you have overcome a problem with opiates in the past, but as soon as the 'a' word is out of your mouth, the receptionist says 'your mind is playing tricks on you' and hangs up... without even mentioning or addressing why you called in the first place. It happens all the time, often less directly, but because of the stigma attached to the 'a' word, and it's pointless. Acting along with that stigma could just as easily encourage someone towards using an opiate again without medical supervision (textbook 'abuse') as it is to dissuade them, especially if that person is on the fence about it ('what other option is there?' mentality). What if cigarette smokers were responded to in the same way? They certainly have just as much of an addiction as anyone else (minus the physical withdrawal severity). Yet we respond to a nicotine addiction (or even alcoholism) MUCH differently and people are encouraged to discuss it during doctors visits...
Again, I'm reiterating I am not making personal attacks. Call me a care-bear if you must (lol). Just feel it's an important topic to discuss and the responses are helpful for me.
I'm familiar with, and responded to, the post this discussion seems to be concerned with. The stated problem was sinus problem, apparently cause for migraine. I know people with severe allergy problems, as well as people with acutely severe migraine headaches. In neither situation is an opiate pill an often prescribed solution. A the case of a severe migraine, if imitrex or similar drug doesn't work, a shot of demerol is required. I've never heard of, or known of, a person being prescribed an opiate for the relief of a sinus problem. In the case of a severe headache, brought about by sinus pressure, there are other ways to deal with the trouble, other than resorting to opiates. An opiate probably will bring little, if any relief to such a problem. So, does a person rationally tell another to "go ahead and use" in the given scenario? I can't see a "yes" answer to the post you question responses to. As another stated above, if I an truly hurting that bad, I'm not going to ask permission. I trust my own head farther than to do that. In closing, I do not believe that a person should say "okay, go ahead" in such a given situation. If you've ever really known a person who suffers from true migraines, then you also know an opiate pill will not relieve it. Neither will it relieve a stopped up sinus. So the answer to this question seemed obvious. Seek the correct medication. I stand by my opinion that in this given situation the ADVICE, which is the only thing anybody could give this person, is no, don't take narcotic pain pills for this problem.
Interesting topic, for sure. SZ, it is encouraging to hear that there is attention being paid to the obvious overlap in addiction medicine and pain management. Finally. I guess we can all consider ourselves TRAILBLAZERS!
Ultimately, we are all responsible for ourselves.
Just pondering:
Addicts will come and go.
Some will take pain pills. Some won't.
Some will make a career of detoxing.
Some will maintain long term abstinence. Some won't.
Some will get on with life. Some won't.
I hope the best for all.
Ultimately, we are all responsible for ourselves.
Just pondering:
Addicts will come and go.
Some will take pain pills. Some won't.
Some will make a career of detoxing.
Some will maintain long term abstinence. Some won't.
Some will get on with life. Some won't.
I hope the best for all.
i agree sad....but people should not get upset...which does happen...when forum members dont agree that it is ok to take narcs for sinus pressure and toe pain...these are just 2 that stand out from the last day or two....in the non-addict world people would never dream of taking narcs for some of the things that are brought up on this forum...it is the addictive mentality....guilty as charged right here LOL ..but not something that should be encouraged or agreed with in my opinion unless u really do agree with it..then speak ur mind....the forum is for feelings to be expressed....but the feelings may not always be what the person wants to hear....as the others have the right to express their feelings as well...different personalities just like the real world here...victims, fixers, stong minded, weak minded, drama queens/kings, shy ones, people in need of advice...it takes all to make the world go round
I am sure there are those types of posts where they want confirmation that it's ok...but I don't think that is everyone..if someone has had to take a couple pills,or may need too and posts about it.I think they want to keep themselves in check and staying away from the forum isn't beneficial. Thats when they should post to keep being reminded to not get caught again..to be careful etc..and to have some accoutability..
Thank you everyone for throwing some responses in. I just wanted to reiterate that I was not singling any one post or person... the topic has been on my mind for the past week or so.
r2h: "Everyone is going to have a situation or condition that involves pain at some time in their lives. Unfortunately, for the addict, this can be a crucial point, the proverbial fork-in-the-road. Actually, not to be too dramatic, but it could be the difference between life and death. That's why having a relapse prevention plan in place is so vital.
I think exactly the same way when it comes down to possibly being the difference between life or death. And I don't think that's exaggerated in the least. This seems to be another area where structured support helps a person prepare for a lot of things that people might miss (including myself) without any aftercare.
By the way, according to the ASAM website, they are currently developing a core curriculum which covers this exact topic:
Development of a core curriculum in pain medicine and addiction medicine
There is currently burgeoning interest in the overlapping areas of pain medicine and addiction medicine. This project is intended to define the body of knowledge necessary for health care providers to provide safe and effective therapy of pain, to identify and manage addictive disorders in patients with pain and to treat pain in individuals with addictive disorders. It will include essential knowledge in overlapping areas of interest in the fields of pain medicine and addiction medicine. Due to the different focuses of their work, generalist physicians and various specialists, both physicians and non-physicians, need to have various depths of knowledge in different parts of this curriculum, but it is believed that all practitioners who treat pain as a prominent part of their practice, should have a basic level of understanding of all parts of the curriculum.
It is anticipated that the defined body of knowledge (core curriculum) will be used selectively as a template to develop courses, conferences, training curricula and other educational projects, as well as, as a reference standard for the development of certification criteria in the fields of pain medicine and addiction medicine.
...better late than never!
r2h: "Everyone is going to have a situation or condition that involves pain at some time in their lives. Unfortunately, for the addict, this can be a crucial point, the proverbial fork-in-the-road. Actually, not to be too dramatic, but it could be the difference between life and death. That's why having a relapse prevention plan in place is so vital.
I think exactly the same way when it comes down to possibly being the difference between life or death. And I don't think that's exaggerated in the least. This seems to be another area where structured support helps a person prepare for a lot of things that people might miss (including myself) without any aftercare.
By the way, according to the ASAM website, they are currently developing a core curriculum which covers this exact topic:
Development of a core curriculum in pain medicine and addiction medicine
There is currently burgeoning interest in the overlapping areas of pain medicine and addiction medicine. This project is intended to define the body of knowledge necessary for health care providers to provide safe and effective therapy of pain, to identify and manage addictive disorders in patients with pain and to treat pain in individuals with addictive disorders. It will include essential knowledge in overlapping areas of interest in the fields of pain medicine and addiction medicine. Due to the different focuses of their work, generalist physicians and various specialists, both physicians and non-physicians, need to have various depths of knowledge in different parts of this curriculum, but it is believed that all practitioners who treat pain as a prominent part of their practice, should have a basic level of understanding of all parts of the curriculum.
It is anticipated that the defined body of knowledge (core curriculum) will be used selectively as a template to develop courses, conferences, training curricula and other educational projects, as well as, as a reference standard for the development of certification criteria in the fields of pain medicine and addiction medicine.
...better late than never!
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