Ok I'm back for question #2 about Suboxone.

[newshed]

Ok now started out patient treatment today and it was great they have a philosophy I can't begin to explain yet since I have such memory problems with listening and conversations I have. Full 2 nd week of suboxone will be Thanksgiving day currently at 16 mg and have experience no I'll effects as far as headaches etc. As I said last nite I'm a relapser big time but am going to stick with it this time not only for me but for my wife and kids. The biggest thing for me is I have no cravings while on Subs, is it to early to know if the Subs won't work later? If they don't I'd ween or if I ween and cravings hit hard and possibly relapse would you go back on them? I have read way to much i'm sure as we all have, I understand Dr.s make $ but can go both ways as u know and my insurane pays all, I'm sure come Jan 1 I'd have to pay for sub and turn slip in to get reimbursed. And I'm fortunate enough to live 10 minutes away from where I "dose", and I have no issues going daily except for Sundays and holidays, I read to much how scripts are given and the patient ends up short.Just as I'm sure most if us have using a pain clinic to obtain percocet and finishing the 120 pills in a week to only have to wait 3 more weeks for refill. My other queston is I have seen a heroin site where u post like here with a lot of sub talk with narcs being abused besides heroin and why is it that suboxone gets such negativity while methadone doesn't seem to take as much? And I read a post here someone mentioned methadone possibly in severe opiate addiction works better? Is that true? Ok friends this is better than group to me and look forward to comments and making friends. And Hallie I can't find you.

[newshed]

Thank you, yes there were a couple things you touched on I haven't been informed of or thought of as well yet that u described. I will definatley look into tapering ASAP even today I will ask what they think as far as doing that, the Dr and nurses from what I feel are supportive and cool I beleive they would try tapering but the biggest thing for them is for me to tall them exactly how I feel when doing so, and I will not lie about how I feel. I have lied enough and won't lie just to try to get off them, maybe they are for me. And will for sure ask if used longer term if you can end up needing more due to tolerance build up. So thank you for replying and giving me thoughts like every one here has so far and I will be back tonite, hell I may as well think of this as my journal.LOL but seriously the support here to me is more beneficial than I can explain.

[bmdad]

I can't really say much about sub since I have never used it. I just want to throw this out there to see what you think. By no means am I trying to convince you to do this just didn't know if may be worth trying.
From what I have read about sub from others on here who have used it is that it is better if you can pretty much start tapering your dose right away so you are only  on it for about 2 weeks. I figure it would not hurt to try and if it does not work you could always go right back to the recommended dose. I do know that sub is a very strong narcotic so in a way it is just replacing one for another. That's why I would love to see you be able to taper off of it and be done with it in 2 weeks. Might be worth a try!
If that doesn't work I feel there is nothing wrong with being on it longer in your situation. I remember your other post and know that you have tried numerous times to get off of the pills including rehab. You even tried rehab twice if I remember right. It is keeping you from abusing the other pain meds that could kill you from overdose or from too much tylenol. That's why I think it's a great tool for you and you are doing what has to be done.
I just thought that if you at least tried the short term sub use that you wouldn't look back a year or two down the road wondering why you didn't try it that way. The withdrawals from sub are many many times worse than other opiates from what I have read. If you can avoid that by succeeding on a short term sub program, that would be awesome! You never know, with 2 weeks of sub and your outpatient rehab, it may just be enough. It would be easy to try. All you would have to do is cut your dose back slowly over the next 5 days or so. You will probably be able to tell within a few days if the short term route will work for you or not.
It also worries me by reading that our bodies can build up a tolerance to sub and you'll eventually have to take more and more for it to work. If that's the case won't you end up right back where you started?
I am by no means bashing your plan because I honestly think you have made the right decision. We are like one big happy family here so I just want to throw some ideas out there and also list some questions that you may or may not have heard or thought about. I'm behind you every step of the way my friend! Please keep us posted on how every thing is working out for you! Maybe type your sub experience in your journal so people that are thinking about getting on it have a good reference to look at? You could let everyone know how you benefited from it and how you didn't. Just a thought. I hope everything is going well for you and your wife!
Best of luck!
Brian

[newshed]

Thank you both they were both great responses that I will sleep on oops I mean stay up and ponder an think. The only thing worried 878 is I had already had SEVERE depression before I started on the sub. But I did however at the request of my counselo start a journal last week I do every other day and I'm going to track how I feel the subs are working and watch for any type of tolerance, currently I get no high from them to me it seems to do what the Dr said it was going to do. So I'll keep on posting this is the coolest site I've been on even better than a chat room.

[worried878]

u will hear negativity bout methadone and sub..both are maintenence drugs..mg for mg sub is much stronger than methadone..but since it has a ceiling effect//sub can be safe as it also blocks other opiates and methadone does not..both reduce or elimintate cravings..neither is safe to mix with benzos
sub is a partial agonist..but much stronger than oxy, hydro, even methadone....it is hard to compare cos those 2 r full agonists...but if u google a comparison chart u will c most compare 1 mg of sub to 30 mgs of hydro...20 mgs of oxy..and 10-15 mgs of methadone...so if u r on 16 mgs of sub//many charts would concur that it is equal to 320 mgs of oxy..so u should be well covered???
Large dose of sub if u do not plan to taper off....tolerence builds to sub just like any other narcotic...no long term studies done really...but it is a narcotic so tolerence will grow..it is the nature of the beast..I used sub off and on to supplement my 100 mg hydro habit when i was out of pills cos a friend had sub...at first 1-2 mgs was plenty til i got my scrip..within 10 months to ayear, 8 mgs was not enuf...and i was not on it continuously/only spurts..i began to crave sub vs my DOC and is why i did not use it to stop hydros..cos for me it was a better high..i felt good on sub and the hydros no longer did much for me..but at the end even 12 mgs of sub did nuttin for me either..and i was DONE!
Staying off the streets and saving money since ur policy covers sub may be a good thing..if u r gonna relapse everytime u stopped and u did all u could do including daily aftercare and really wanting to be clean..then sub may be ur choice/ur best choice
We r all different..I wanted to be free of the control...i realized after taking sub for a while that it was the same dead end street that hydros were for me...they stopped making me feel ok..and depression set in..so i let go of the whole mess

goodluck to u...sounds like u r where u need to be..keep posting

[twolve]

The general opinion that I have heard on this site is that methadone is something that you just want no part of..the wds are terrible, even worse than oxys..their half life is twice as long so it stays in your system longer, which really explains why the wds can be so bad..suboxone is more like a 50.50 some people love it and some people feel like its just masking the issue because sub wds can be bad as well, a lot of people taper and it seems to be successful that way. More people with methadone experience can let you know but i have read hundreds of negative posts on methadone and i honestly cant remember any stories where people successfuly used methadone to quit drugs without experiencing terrible wds from the methadone.