One pill, two pill, white pill, blue pill

[skillet]

Anyone out there have any advice for someone who has recognized that they have a drug addiction problem, started to go to AA, but has relapsed?  I was doing OK in AA and starting to feel better until I picked up again.  I was prescribed some Percocet and Vicodin for a kidney stone a few weeks ago.  It was like opening the doors to the all you can eat buffet for addicts!  I was able to justify my use for the first day or two, but once the pain subsided I consciously chose to continue using.  Since then, I've started mixing the percs and vicodin or switch to Flexeril and Ativan.  I know that mixing these meds together can be dangerous, but am not thinking safety...just euphoria.  I'm so sick and tired of the manipulation, secrecy and compulsion to do whatever it takes to get high.  I want to be straight out truthful with my wife, but can't stand the reality of disappointing her...again.  I just can't get a bunch of days strung together in sobriety.  I feel like such a hypocrite in AA, sitting and listening to other's stories with which I can relate to, but in the back of my mind planning on when I can get high again.  The progression of drug abuse is only going to lead me further and further down a path I don't want to go down.  I want to regain my own self respect and sanity before it is too late, but I feel extremely stuck in this viscious cycle.  If anyone can relate or has some advice, please post.  Thanks.

[AmberHunter]

i spent years and years in the rooms of NA and AA... i learned alot in those rooms and it worked for me for a long time... i know what it is like to sit during a meeting a know sure as **** that as soon as it ends and the last hug is given out i am OUT THE DOOR!

there are alot of different approaches to staying clean, a day at a time... i was clean for eight years in NA and now have 4 months the amber way... and hope to increase my chances of staying clean by learning more about what the good doc posted for you...

i am not powerless, i know i am not, but put that first drug or drink and me and it sure feels like it! lol!! for real!

this board has been like months of therapy for me and staying connected here with lots of other people who are going through the same thing has kept me clean more than once lately... i really have the urge to drink alcohol come spring and that leads me right back to the opiates...

good luck, stick around, it can be done!

amber

[Erika_Ann]

You always have such thoughtful things to post. People really appreciate your posts as I do as well. You have good positive and honest things to say is what we all need to hear.
I just wanted to tell you thank you!

Erika

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

You have also been one of my many inspirations---This board is my therapy as I have stated many times--Have you read Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey?--I believe it's more or less the same philosophy as Smart Recovery--Who first deveolped this innovative therapy is irrelevant to me!  The fact of the matter is I have never been more encouraged or empowered!  I have seen many an AA meeting and there are some things I can relate to, and some things I can't!--Soo I'm trying a combination of both!
I've been seeing a book that I want to purchase this weekend called "A Million Little Pieces"--I'm not sure of the author (I'll have to check an earlier thread)--Anyway Amber Stay strong Hon 4 months is great! Read and Post often especially when the "Beast" comes a callin!--Much love peace & Prayers N.O. Lady/AKA Mystere

Anne--(My Guardian Angel Peaz wanted my real name)

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

Day 4 whooo hooo--Dear heart you are through the Brunt of it!--I found after the fourth day things began to significantly improve! I have been addicted to opiates for many years and I I've finally gotten it right this time!--I'm not saying it's easy but if you are so tired of the hell on earth produced by those pills and if you are ready to escape from the nightmare this is the place to be! There are so many wonderful people here that answered my desperate cries a little over a week ago!
Good luck Hon I'll check on ya from home! N.O. Lady/ AKA Mystere

Anne

[whatitistoburn]

Oh, I can so relate to your story. I spent 12 years in AA, and then became ill with a chronic condition, enter opiates, and off to the races I was! I was given the good stuff/evil stuff, morphine. My tolereance got so high, so quickly, and I'd sit in my AA meetings high, and acting a little high and mighty. They all knew I was on pain medication, but accepted it. What they didn't know was that I was getting higher doses, by the week, to get high, beyond killing the pain. It was a horrible roller coaster ride, and I began to hate myself and feel guilty. I could not live with the guilt, although my doc, family and friens all encouraged me to stay on the meds. They didn't know I was taking it to get high. I finally got off all pain meds last week, by tapering at home, and feel better and happier about my life and future than I have in 2 years. I also had to get rid of someone I was very close to because he was a drug trigger. It hurt, but I promised myself I would do whatever it takes, and have.

Hang in there, you *can* do this.

Burn

[mrmichael67]

If you go and do a detox at the methadone clinic, do the three week detox.  Three weeks is not enough to get you hooked on the methadone and you will have enough time to do it as comfortable as possible.  It won't be a walk in the park, but it will be easier than cold turkey.....much easier.  Two weeks is too short.  By the way, many business types dressed and ready for work go to my clinic.  I don't look like the stereotypical methadone clinic patient either.  Many don't.  Many do.  I can't speak for any other clinics, but at my clinic, I go in and medicate and leave and drive out of the parking lot within five to ten minutes.

[mrmichael67]

The reason methadone is such a good choice for long term chronic pain patients is the fact it is a stable med.  That means the dose doesn't keep going up at a fast rate.  Tolerance goes up very, very slowly.  Some can go with out a raise in their dose and during periods of feeling better, they can actually lower their dose until the need for more arises.  It would be wonderful if the other agonists shared that profile.

[Trying2Stop]

It started out to be a good day, and now I am pulling my hair out.  Not necessarily physical w/d yet, but it seems the little one has been extremely hyper today.  Just into everything and I just haven't had a minute to myself.  And I don't have anything for tomorrow.  Not yet anyway.  I thought after the talk my hubby and I had last night he kinda got that I actually feel physical pain, but he must have forgotten that talk.  He's not being a jerk or anything but his motto is if he can't get anything, oh well.  He doesn't quite understand how hard it is to take care of children when you are w/ding.  And tomorrow is the little ones b-day.  I'm already starting to feel the aching bones.  I can deal with those somewhat, I can't take the restless arms.  My legs dont' get too bad, but the arms get awful.  I guess if it gets too bad tomorrow and I dont' have anything I will call about the bup.  I just dread having to talk to someone...I always feel I am being judged.  I judge myself as it is....I don't need anyone else looking down on me.  I just pray the day comes when I am on the other side with you guys who are there....

I sure am glad I have this board!!!

[peaz]

The author you're looking for is James Frey (A Million Pieces). I got it this weekend and it's shocking and raw. But in a GOOD way.......I hope you can find it. I went to Barnes and Noble.
  I will post more later, gator--Love ya--Di

[mystere]

I am so sorry for your terrible loss--This is the place to be for love and support from a whole lotta people who know what your going through with regard to the Vicoden--If I understand you correctly you have been taking 6-8 per day? Compared to me and other people here that is not a "heavy duty" amount but you will probably experience some withdrawal symptoms--Withdrawal from an opiate feels like you have a "Super Flu"--Chills/sweats--sometimes fever/the runs/no energy/ something we addicts call restless leg syndrome (you know it when you have it)--inability to sleep--BUT THE GOOD NEWS-It is only temporary and usually lasts only 5-7 days--I know when your going through it seems like an eternity
Many people here including me swear by the Thomas Recipe--It's a way to cold turkey detox from opiates at home-It is listed many times in previous threads--Best of luck--if you are serious about getting off of the Vicoden then this is the place to be!
I'll keep you in my prayers paassenby-Mystere/AKA N.O. Lady

Anne

[gracie97]

Hey guys, hope everyone is well. Starting day 8 in the morning. Today was the one I was really worried about. Severe pain day, but I made it through, heating pads under my clothes and MIDOL only. Also most stressful day at work (11 hours) since it is financial day for me and everything is going wrong. But thanks to all of you getting me thru, what I believe is the toughest part, the first 5 days, I made it thru-tab free. Thanks again!

Also, found out Rick has a hidden stash somewhere???? That really has bothered me, he says he hasn't touched them, but that part of my addicted brain keeps wondering where are they and why are they still in our life somewhere? I thought we flushed everything. He says, they are paid for and too many to just "flush" -I totally disagree and was disappointed, maybe even betrayed. Oh well, he will deal with it his way and on his terms....For me, what I don't know will NOT HURT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. The dogs have now had consistent walks (by ME)for the last 3 nights :>) (Been a year since I could say that, use to walk them 2 a day)

[Trying2Stop]

Well good morning too all..It is 5AM here....does this happen to anyone else...you are in bed, seriously trying to get some sleep, your neck and back burning, arms restless, can't get comfortable, and your lower back feels like it has been hit with a sledgehammer, and the person lying next to you is snoring like there is no tomorrow.  I just want to take a sledgehammer to his lower back lol.

Well anyway hubby found some pills to get me through the day, I am proud of myself though, I only took 1/2 vic.  It subsided the w/d symptoms slightly and for only about 2 hours (getting longer effects now that I cut back) and I just stuck it out b/c I knew if I reached for another 1/2 that would only last 2 hours and by the time 7AM would come I would be out.  So I managed to get almost 2 1/2 hours sleep and went almost 5 hours on 1/2 vic.  I am going to take 1 or 1/2 of one and make hubby either take the rest to work with him or hide them so I will have something for tonight and tomorrow morning.  I am seriously considering the bup. or sub. b/c I can't keep this manhunt up for pills to ween off.  I am doing good with my tapering though I think.  I just can't do ct.  

Well I just wanted to vent a little since the hubby is up there snoring away and I couldn't get back to sleep.  I am praying to god that I can keep myself busy and wait another 5 hours before next dose.

[sundara]

wanted to comment the taking care of the children thing ... my husband and i have been addicted to vicodin/percocet approx. 18 months to 2 years . .. keep saying we were going to quit .. someone had to go first . (to take care of kids).. he kept saying it would be him .. . i waited and waited and finally realized . . . it would have to be me . . . i had to share my dirty secret with a good friend, because, someone had to take care of me and my kids . . she agreed to be with me (husband went to work).... . went through rapid detox through a clinic . .. as of today i have not had any opiates for 24 days. . . . i can not fathom going through w/d's and taking care of kids . . . .the rapid detox lasted for 4 days (where i needed a caregiver for me and kids) . .there were 27 pills left in the house when i started my detox,,,,enough to get my husband through work until i was well enough to take care of kids and him .. . my husband quit cold turkey . . .OMG - ugly .. . . but to my surprise he has 19 days off the vicodin today . . . i am doing really good, had a naltrexone implant put in after day 7 (7 week opiate blocker) .. . it is swollen and red ..doc from clinic called in script for a steriod to take away swelling and sorness,,, it's not working as quick as i would like it to and don't really want to go back to clinic . .  and a script for 5mg valium it has helped ,,,,trying not to abuse so far so good only 2 a day for all that restlessness that still exists... .not sure if this in "normal". .is there anys uch animal. . LOL . . anyone with knowledge or comments on this please respond .. .

[vikequeen]

Hey gang sorry to bust on a thread but you know how it is,
I have a question: 1 month ago I had like 37 days clean and I relapsed (vicodin) I have 40 5mg vikes can someone set me up with a good taper? I realize its not a lot but I want off the monster again, I tricked my self in to thinking I am no happier off the pills so why not? addict thinking us addicts , we set our own rules. Anyway God bless to all espacially those detoxing

[Trying2Stop]

Great post Sundra.  I wish I could afford to go the rapid detox route, but it is just too much money and I am having trouble keeping on top of our existing bills.  If you didnt' read one of my other posts, my husband, for some unhuman reason, has never experienced the agonoy of w/d.  So he can take them or leave them.  That man is not human I swear lol.  So I have to go the taper route b/c he does work too, and I am just not comfortable telling anyone I haven't told, and those whom I have, well I don't trust with my kids...weird huh, I know, but that is the story of my life.  

I am bound and determined to do this.  I may have to call one of the dr. that can prescribe the bup. or sub.  Running around to find pills for me to taper is just too exhausting, and what happens if there isn't any around....

I took one pill out today and told my hubby to hide the other 2.  I don't feel as energetic as I would if I had more to taper with, but at least I am not sick as a dog.  I am hoping to be done by the end of May..that is my goal.  Maybe even sooner.

[pammy0690]

Good morning!  Hey keep posting and let us know how it goes ok?  Hope it is going ok for you today with the bday and everything.  Pammy

[Trying2Stop]

So far so good.  The baby (well baby to me) slept in today, so that was good, but she is still up my butt...lol...she always is.  She is sitting on my lap as I type this. I may make a small cake for her for her birthday today, but I will see how I feel.  As I said, I made hubby take the 2 pills I had with him so I won't take them all today...I left one for myself...which I took, but when he gets home I will take another 1/2 for bed so I will have 1 1/2 left for tomorrow.  Then I will have to find some this weekend until I can get myself down to like 1 a day or something.  I will check in....I check the board like every 1/2 hour or so...

[ExOxyAddict]

if you'r taking oxycodone now, i highly suggest getting off it at all costs, save for terminal illnesses.  i suffer horriblt from chronic cluster headaches and my neuro had me on approx. 720 mg. of oxy per day!! (24 30 mg. roxicodone.  i was away and ran out and ended up in the hospital...the most horrible experience of my life.  i prayed for death every other minute.  you CAN avoid this by tapering and letting them go.  it's been 4 months for me and i now have my life back.  PLEASE TAKE HEED!

[pammy0690]

Hey you are doing pretty good!  Hang in there! Drink a ton of water.  Think of how when people are dehydrated and go to the ER and the staff gives them and IV?  Well if you think of the withdrawal systems as by products of dehydration than you will drink more water. It really helps.  I have sat here at my desk at work and everytime I would feel achey (achy) or feverish I would guzzle water.  Really helps with the leg cramps too.  Keep it up girl you can do it!  I can tell you are a fighter!  Pamela

[ExOxyAddict]

i truly feel for you.  the best advice i can give you is wean yourself of it, tell a loved one what you're going through because you're gonna need the support, and bite the bullet.  the silver lining here is once you experience the withdrawal, it will really turn you against further abuse of it because you won't wanna go through it ever again.  i don't mean to scare you by saying all this.  take note: it DOES END and you feel SO much better all around.  i wish you luck!

[AmberHunter]

i am so proud of everyone on this board!!! up until recently i didn't even know a board like this existed!!! as a matter of fact, i pretty much thought i was the only one who abused opiate medications (and any other type of opiates/alcohol/drugs in general) to get that energy that they give you... i was more sociable (sp) and had a different energy about me that i didn't think i would have w/o the pills...

i have never understood why i would time and time again get tangled up with it... never understood that... i KNOW from experience that life w/o narcotics is the ****!!! i love it!!! i LOVE waking up and not having to worry about getting right! i am free, i do have energy, natural god/dess given energy that is MINE!!! and i like me! i don't like me on narccotics, not really, all the lying and cheating and feeling so dirty and ugly...

it just amazes me how good life can be w/o narcotics and knowing that and going out and ******* it up! (i don't censor myself, sorry! lol!!) i am determined to make it work this time... but i am allowing myself to be human and if i "fail" i am not going to give up... i feel determined and energized for this fight and to be honest i am enjoying it! i never knew how much there was to learn about recovery outside of the 12 steps... going to get that frey book "a million little pieces" this weekend! no matter what!!!! and rational recovery i am going to order if they don't have it already there!

i feel so blessed to have found this board, and everyone on it is so honest and working so hard and all i can tell you, from my personal experience, is THAT IT CAN BE DONE!!! we don't have to be ashamed and miserable and we don't have to continue dying...

i had using dreams last night, and i dreamt about these fish that were constantly losing the water in their tank and all sorts of weird **** and if my mind wants to journey like that while i am asleep it is ok cuz when i wake up and know that i have NOT used, and that i don't even have any fish lol, and that i am in control of what i do today it is freaking great!!! (there, i tried to censor myself)

life is as good as i let it be today!!!! i love you all!! thank you for being here for me!

amber

[ExOxyAddict]

CONGRATULATIONS!  you've tamed the beast.

[Trying2Stop]

I can't wait to be where you are now!!!

[ExOxyAddict]

i feel for you..w/d is the worst but it does have an end and nothing but comes comes of it!  i was taking enough oxy to literally kill an elephant or two so i know what you're going through.  as far as the restless legs and arms: ask your doc to prescribe klonopin (i'm sure he will as it's standard practice) and what i found worked better for the restlessness is 1000 mg. of calcium with Vitamin D, which aids the body in calcium absorption.

[Trying2Stop]

Actually I was taking that coral calcium at one point, but I ran out of it and have to order more.  I order the stuff off the net b/c it has a heck of a lot more calcium and trace minerals then the stuff in the stores.

I am going to try and get the dr. to give me some kind of relaxer to help calm me down.  Thanks for the advise!!

[ExOxyAddict]

you're welcome.  i'm sure your doc will prescribe you something to help with the nerves.  after the RLS subsides (restless leg syndrome), you may wanna get some L-tyrosine, which helps "pull you back up" because after the nervousness goes away, there's a BIG crash.  please recognize that the crash is a GOOD AND REINFORCING sign:  it's your body telling you that you're well on the way to recovery and the worst is over (4-5 days or so).

ABOVE ALL:

             GIVE YOURSELF CREDIT FOR RECOGNIZING YOUR PROBLEM!!!!  believe it or not, that is THE MOST DIFFICULT part of recovery and it seems that you've reached that stage so congratulate yourself!!!

[lakelady]

Hi everyone, I agree with ExOxy,re: stay away from Oxy! I have valid pain, I've posted before in detail, well anyway, about a year ago my Doctor persuaded me to try 40mg of Oxycontin twice a day, I was also taking my regular pain meds........well I did this for about  2,3 months and then he wanted me to decide which pills I wanted the  oxy or the vics.......very hard decision, but I went for the vics, I was soooooooo sick! Mentally Physically, It was unbelievabley Horrible! Since then he keeps trying to get me back on them, and I refuse. I am only 41 and already in so much pain, I try to use the bare minimum(sometimes) because someday I'm sure I'll be on something much stronger than the Norco I now use, and God for bid what if I were to get Cancer or something, thats when I'd go for the oxy again.......As it is about 1 1/2 years ago I had an abdominal surgery and they could not control my pain......the Doctor's attributed it to my tolerance to opiates........GREAT! Well hope all goes well for you all. I'm really enjoying this board.

[cleo102]

sounds like every one is trying

today was my worst day I knew with even having the methadone tens to split up the days I figured thid weekend would be preetty bad

so far this is day 11 if i can count that high and i am seriously so tired and the rls is so bad i could take a whole bottle of flexeril

i have been using the flexerils a few times a day xanax at nite for bed every other nite temazepan on the alternate nights.i was extremely depressed today thomas's recipe has also helped emmensely.  I truly hate the xanax and i am only taking them every other day because they are so addictive and the knock me out in 30 minutes

i just wish that the old me would surface soon I just dont know how i am going to do every thing that i need to do with the kids with the pain im in.

God Bless and thanks for a place to come where I actually know people will understand what i am going thru.

it even hurts to type.  

2 days longer than when i caved two months ago.

/cleo102

[AlexisInTx]

Hi all - I've been a member of this board for almost a year now, but haven't posted much at all (especially lately) because unfortunately, I relapsed after almost 4 months clean last summer.

I just want to tell all of you who are withdrawing, or tapering, or trying to get clean that you're giving yourselves the best gift you can give.  You are elminating those toxins from your system, you're on your way to becoming 'yourself' again, and that is priceless.

I have been feeling AWFUL lately because I did relapse and just never attempted to quit again.  I'm quite frankly scared.  I should be more scared to keep on taking the hydros (and now I'm also taking Valium - 1 mg. 3x daily) and Soma, but I've been taking these meds for about 2 years now and I've become too accustomed to functioning on this artificial mood that the drugs create.  

I have to say, I am feeling increasingly sick -- I don't get high anymore no matter how much hydro I take it seems, so what I was taking before (9 Norcos a day) is now more like 6 daily.  I am seriously depressed and I know that it's from the hydro.  The other week I ran out of the hydro, and took codeine (Codeisan, no tylenol, just codeine) at a smaller dose and felt SO much better, although I know that's just as bad, but I think that the tylenol is really doing a number on my health.  I've taken way too much tonight, and I don't feel better, I feel worse.  So depressed -- about our financial situation because of the amount of money I spend on the Norco and other pills, and the fact that I need to constantly take pills to function.

I know DEEP inside that now is the time.  I knew last year that it wasn't, but I went through the motions of tapering, getting clean and trying to act as if all was well when all I could think about was getting the pills.  I can't believe I blew it and went back to taking them, because I could have had a year under my belt now if I had just toughed it out and stuck with the program.

I have 50 sublingual buprenorphine on the way to taper (plus the codeine and Ultram and hydro :( ) but I want to do this right this time.  I have been thinking so much about how I enjoyed life before without the pills - everything looked so bright and colorful, now it's dull and gray.  I don't want to go anywhere, I can't sleep until about 3:00 a.m. rolls around, and then I sleep until 12:30 or 1:00 in the afternoon (I work at home).  I have 2 daughters, ages 12 & 13, and I get up in the morning with them but have to go back to bed or else I'll become ill with a cold (I guess I'm lowering my body's defenses and need a lot of sleep?  I don't know..).

I just want to say to everyone here that I've been reading and am really touched by y'alls stories.  You have an enormous amount of strength, and I'm feeling stronger about quitting because of all of you.  I know I need to do this for myself and my family - I want my girls to have a Mom that can do everything with them instead of being a hermit.

I'm really glad I found this board last year, and I love to read the Doctor's answers to everyone's questions.  Very enlightening.  Kudos to everyone for having what it takes to get yourselves out of this hole - I want to be there REAL soon.

[mystere]

Please don't beat yourself up about the relapse--It's taken me three times to get it right!--The fact that you are back means that you ARE READY to reclaim your life!--I was no longer feeling the great effects of the hydrocone either--I was taking them pretty much just to prevent withdrawal-I knew it had to end!--I almost lost my husband due to those @#@#ing pills and that's when I knew I was ready!--I could have never made it without the wondeful people on this board--If you are ready to quit this is the place to be--You're in my prayers Alexis  WELCOME BACK! You can come out the other side and I'm living proof!Peace/Mystere/AKA N.O. lady

Anne

[peaz]

Alexis---I think I posted to you about the simple joys of getting all loaded up on hydros and then having a day's excursion to the grocery store as if it were Madame Tussaud's.....LOLO   I am NOT glorifying drugs!! Just commenting on how stupid our lives become while we're in the midst of addiction.
   Your head is nearing the "right place" and you will DO this!!   So many people relapse SO MANY times----but they all keep at it and one day success is theirs.  It doesn't MATTER how many times  you need to finally get the narcs out of your life.....just so you eventually DO IT.  Please keep posting and let us know how we can help.  Or just visit w/ us and glean strength from us.  :-)
   Mystere--I posted to you about and you didn't reply (sniff, sniff) so I hope it's just that you didn't see it......You seem to be doing So well,and I am just delighted to read your posts!!  What you have done is HUGE!!!  Keep it up.  I knew you'd like that Trimpey book--it make LOTS of sense.  It really appealed to me, too.  Have a great day and maybe I'll post here tonight.  Love, Di

[mystere]

Good morning my Guaardian Angel--Is this board getting crowded or what?--I think its great that so many people are finding out they are not alone and that there is LIFE after hydro/oxycodoneor whatever drug of choice! Wow 4 months without a cigarette--  That is wonderful! That's my next "beast" that I'm going to silence! I hope you have a wondeful friday Peazy--and I can't say it enough--I would not have made it this far without you--I remember one of your posts in particular that may very well have saved my life!  Take care Hon--It's going to Hot & Humid today in the Big Easy-I'll talk to you tonight! all my love/peace/prayers--Mystere/N.O. Lady

Anne

Rodewk--Please flush those pills and give them the finger as they go swirling down la twalet!  You will feel better! I hope you have a great day off enjoying some of the guilty pleasures (NOT PILLS!) of life. Peace/Prayers Mystere/AKA N.O.Lady

Anne

[Chezz2]

I too have been here for quite a while and followed your situation from the beginning of your infrequent posting.
Keep posting, it helps keep you strong and lets those feelings come out.
Addiction is a long and arduous process. There are no straight answers, remedies, or easy ways out.
We all find our way, through this forum, our inner strength, or by whatever means works for us.
Just don't give up. You are on the right track.

Finding your way is the key.

Chezz

[AlexisInTx]

Mystere, I've read your posts and am SO glad that you're doing so well!  I know what you mean about almost losing your marriage.  My husband and I had a HUGE fight the other night because of my pill usage.  He had just about had it with my mood swings, has said that I'm a completely different person from 2 years ago and thinks since we both quit smoking 6 years ago and since I quit drinking 3 years ago I should be able to do quit taking the pills without any problems (this is the hardest thing I've ever done).  He recently had withdrawals from drinking -- he didn't even know what they were, but since he would drink whenever he could, which was every evening after work and on the weekends starting at noon, then he stopped abruptly and had the same symptoms I have when I go through w/d's (cold sweats at night, RLS, flu feeling, etc.) he realized that he shouldn't be drinking anymore (he said that at the time).  We both didn't realize the problems we have -- him with alcohol and me with pills, it just escalates and one day you're left looking at the ruins of what your life has become.  He just started drinking again. :(  I'm learning that I need to focus on my own recovery right now and that I have to own my actions (I watch Dr. Phil too much - yep, it's not workin' for me)

Peaz, LOL Madam Tussaud's, so true.  I remember our chat before and you REALLY helped me.  I also remember thinking what a completely cool job you have.  I think the time has come and have realized through reading here that as long as I keep on trying and never give up, that I'm at least on the right path, even though at the time I may not be making the right decisions.  I think my problem started when I became SO angry with myself for allowing this to happen again.  I basically said, &*CK it, I'll never be free of this so I'm going to keep on taking what is familiar to me.  I need to do a LOT of work within myself - that I know for a fact, because I also realize that after the withdrawal is over and there are no 'little evil friends' left (post-honeymoon phase) that I'll be tempted yet again and I need to seek out others like myself instead of retreating inward as I so often do.  Thanks so much for being there in the past and now, I find your posts so incredibly insightful.

Alexis

[AlexisInTx]

We must have been posting at the same time.  I also remember reading your posts from months back and seeing how much you helped others here - I just started to read the board again because I know now is the time, it has to be because I feel like I'm losing myself.  You're so right about posting, I need to have an outlet with people like myself and not just read, but also participate to get input - that's what helped me stay clean for those 4 months last summer.  I was posting a lot more back then and getting a lot of encouragement, I just need to execute a plan right now.  

I hope you're doing well.

[passenby]

thank you so much for your response and prayers. I will being looking for any advise until the big CD week which will be may 10th so please keep coming with unfo. I'm glad to here that this amount 6 to 8 isn't so bad.I hope your right just from dropping real fast because I didn't know any better before I found all of you I got restless legs and felt generally lousy. before the vikes I have taken dorvecets for 15 yrs but only 1or2 a day could that be some of the reasons I feeling wd so fast?

[MellyR]

Hey, I noticed you said you have some bup "on the way" to taper with. Did you get them from a local doctor or what? I am having a terrible time in Northern California trying to find a doctor who will rx the bup for w/d. Can a regular doctor prescribe bup if it's supposedly for pain instead of for withdrawl? How about that suboxone? Can that be prescribed by anyone, rather than just the special bup doctors? I am so desperately trying to find something other than methadone to taper with, I'm going nuts!!

[Thomas050]

Hi alexistx,

I understand what you mean about getting used to functioning on the pills. I am using them to get thru tough days, and I am beginning to see that I am going to have a difficult time dealing with those tough times when I decide to stop using them. The thought of not having them to resort to during those tough times is already a little scary, but my mind tells me I now I know I could do it if I had to (is that part of the addiction factor?). I do see how the addiction part works, both what I mentioned above and also the fact that my depression is worse than normal when I come off the pills. It's weird, I am fully aware of how the addiction works and I thought that would make me impervious to getting addicted, but I am beginning to think otherwise. I keep saying that I am only using right now to deal with things, and I do have intentions of not using in the future. At some point I will put on my suit of metaphorical armor and slay the dragon, and I feel like I can at any time, but what i am beginning to realize is that the dragon is growing bigger and bigger so I better not wait to long before it will be virtually impossible. I could slay a 20' tall dragon, but a 100' tall dragon, hmmmm that will be hard ;)

Kind regards,
T.050

[Susie B]

Sounds like you need to put on the armour-NOW! I don't post often, but I always look for your comments- they always help, always support. What can I say to help you now?

[Thomas03]

Welcome to the forum.

May I say what a classic load of rationalizing, bargaining USDA-choice bullshit that is? I'm jealous! I miss those heady days when the guano flowed like a river and there was never a reason to stop using. All I can see now are reasons, and I hate it. It’s the news I never thought would arrive. ****.

There are going to be more and more of those tough days coming your way. Soon, they'll all be tough ones. That surplus of pseudo-endorphins you experience while on the narcs will lead to a deficit of the real stuff when you're not. That could mean fairly black depressions if you have a predisposition to them.

You might give L-Tyrosine and B6 a try first thing in the morning when off the narcs.

But, as I say, I'm really jealous. If I had some Vics tonight, I'm sure I'd gobble them up, reason or no. Keep posting.

Thomas

[Thomas050]

thanks. I'm actually doing OK at the moment (the nice weather is helping). And I am also really glad I found this forum. I took the pills Monday thru Thursday and by Thurs I had to take 5 at a time to feel anything (or actually, to not feel, if that makes sense). But I have not taken any since (partially because of that tollerance factor), but I am actually contemplating not getting more. It's weird, the further I get away from them there is a part of me that says "get away and stay away while you can". And at times I feel I'll be able to. Feeling good without them feels great (like what Amber mentioned above). But then when I start feeling down - when life's tough spots combine with my depression, I will prob seek to feel better, and the pills do it, even if only temporarily. But yea, I do see the addiction train heading my way. And I do see that i am, an a way, kinda smothering any natural coping skills I have. But my natural coping skills were not cutting it (I was suicidal, not good). But I think before I found this forum I was at 40/60 (sensible self/drug abuser). Now I feel like I'm 60/40 :)

Some here have rather large dragons to slay. Remember, we're in your army. If your sword breaks, we're behind you and will supply you another one.

Thanks to all,
Thomas050

[Thomas03]

There's no denying that opiates are great anti-depressants. In fact, they're working on next-generation anti-depressants based on how opiates work. Obviously, they're trying to find substances that can reproduce the anti-depressant effect of opiates without all the baggage.

You might find these sites good reading:

www.heroin.org

www.erowid.org

Thomas

[passenby]

That sounds to good to be true.I'm sure it would still be illegal to obtain. No one has the right to feel that good all the time and it be legal. Someone would just have to stop that.After reading what everyone has to say about wd and depresion. I don't know what I'm afraid of most when I start CD this Saturday, the agony of wd or the lingering depression.I've taken antidepressents for years and they barely work now.

[passenby]

Sorry to post again but I meant ct(COLD TURKEY)on Sat.

[AlexisInTx]

Hi Melly - Actually, I have not gotten the buprenorphine in the past (or now) from a doctor.  I don't even know of any who would prescribe it.  I used to order from an overseas pharmacy (bad idea though -- the package can be seized by customs and import laws are such that it's not legal to do this - I did this unknowingly at the time, but still would have ordered even if I had known to be honest).  The bupe I'm getting is from my Sister - her husband had a codeine addiction and had some left over.  I had to confide in her about my own addictions recently (she is a wonderful person and doesn't judge - I've always had a great relationship with her) and she said that she would give me some of my brother-in-law's since he has stopped taking pain medications.  

Thomas, I can equate with what you're saying so well.  I have to be honest with myself, and there are some things in my life that are going on that I don't think I can deal with without the pills.  But I HAVE to do this now.  I'm going to make a deal with myself -- 6 months clean and sober, take it day by day and see if it improves, if not, I'm going to go to an outpatient clinic that doesn't record this on my insurance and see if they can help.  There is also an NA meeting just down the street from where I live and I'm thinking about joining.  I feel like I have to try something, and if it doesn't work out, I'll try something else.  The depression I'm getting now is too much to handle (especially late at night when everyone is asleep and I'm awake and can't sleep), so I have to do something.  I wish you well in whatever you decide (I wish I were in a better position to help others - I don't even feel as if I can help myself right now).  Also, I want to thank you for the details of the recipe -- it helped me so much last year when I quit for those 4 months, just may have to try that again.

[Thomas03]

The amino acid L-Tyrosine (taken with B6) can help with the post WD depression. It's cheap and available at a nutritional supplement store. 'Wouldn't hurt to try it.

... Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down the next morning, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Thomas

[passenby]

Thanks, I planned on getting the L-tyrosine from reading the Thomas recipe now I know what to do with it.I need to know if I should keep up with all my anti-depressents.I'm on 40mg paxil and 200 Trazidone at night and 200mgs wellbutrin. Oh and I can take up to .25 of xanax three times a day. anything there you think that might help or hinder thanks again I'm new and not getting to many response from everyone but I sure have learned a lot from all and thanks again.

[lisabet]

Hi Thomas...where ya been?  Glad to see ya posting - I've missed ya! Hope you're doing well.  Love ya, Lisabet

[passenby]

I just wanted to say hi and tell you I hope your felling better today. You seem so blue this morning at 1:30am. I hope your plans work about the deal you made yourself. I'll be watching for your post to see how your doing. good luck and God Bless