Aa
Pain
Hey,
My first original post, here goes.
I am posting not a question, but largely comments, comments based on observing posts here the last few days. During the last few days I have seen what appears to be legitimate chronic pain patients posting here, reading comments about "addiction" and "abuse", getting scared by these, and then posting things like, "how do I get off my meds" or "I just flushed all my meds down the toilet after reading about ______ in such and such a post". I just wanted to go on the record and state that there is nothing wrong with using the opioid to manage legitimate chronic pain. It has been used in that capacity since the dawn of recorded history and modern medicine has still been unable to improve upon the simple alkaloids in that much-maligned flower.
I have seen first hand how chronic pain can devastate a person's life and severely impact the lives of the people around them. My dad, a carpenter now for 40 years, had two bad falls, one back in the early 80s, the other in the early 90s. He fractured vertebrate in his back both times. He has metal fused on either side of his spine. He lived (and continued to work) in agony for years before he began to start seeking relief from his pain. At the end he could barely move; it took him 10 minutes to get out of bed in the morning, it was astounding the pain he endured. By the time he began seeking relief of this problem, it was after the prescription drug epidemic had broken out and made its way through the media like a wildfire. It took him 9 months and umpteen pain clinic visits before he could get simple percocet script, let alone something that would actually provide him any real relief. All of this because of junkies like myself, junkies who used and abused the system so long that med students now spend half their med school time learning about spotting drug seekers rather than real medicine. I mean, it has gotten so bad that when a patient presents complaining of pain, the docs now usually roll their eyes at you unless there is a sucking chest wound or a sword coming out of your back. This has always made me feel guilty. I think it took about 18 months before my dad and his pain specialist found a formulation that worked, in the form of controlled-release dilaudid (HydromorphContin 18mg capsules). Now, before us junkies forced doctors into the lie detection and skepticism business, he would have probably been sorted by his primary care physician 12 months prior to that - 12 months is a long time to go when you are in pure agony. Trust me.
How has this changed his life? Well, when he wants to get out of bed, he does so. He can hold up his grandchildren now, even play with them, something he could never do. When he is not working, he is not confined to bed as he was. He takes walks again, is more productive at work, something that was his whole life, his work. I saw at the end of his "pain period" how his inability to do what he loved and took such great pride in his entire life was killing him, as sure as any cancer could. It broke my heart. Now that has all changed. He has a life again. Is he physically dependent on his pain medication now? Yep. Just like a diabetic depends on their insulin. He is not a "drug addict", I was, note the difference. Would people knee-jerk and tell them things like "that insulin is EVIL, STOP it at ONCE" and things of that sort? I have heard people say things like that about hydromorphone (Dilaudid), the very medication that gave my dad a semblance of a life again. I really think that people should more carefully consider their words before scaring people, scaring them so badly in some cases that they might make a foolish decision and stop taking their pain meds, consigning themselves to a life of pain and misery because someone on an internet forum said that Dilaudid was a product of the Infernal Regions. To many, it is a Godsend. I have seen it first hand. So please, before you post, consider that, consider that some people want their lives back, want them back from the misery of chronic pain. It really can devastate a life.
Now I am not a terribly religious person, I admit it, but at times things like the opioid molecule get me to wondering. I mean, here we have this flower that produces alkaloids, alkaloids which identically fit into our pain (opioid) control receptors. These are the same receptors that the body's naturally produced opioids (endorphins - short for endogenous morphine) fit into. That is like pulling a key from some random pile of hay and fitting it into the first car you come upon, greater odds even. It is astonishing actually. Sometimes nature is so perfect that it just gets me to wondering is all.
So yeah, there you have it. My point is this; there is a big difference between "addiction" (me) and "physical dependence" (my dad). We both used the same medications, but for very very different reasons. So yeah, I hope that I have removed some of the stigma against this miraculous molecule. It would be a real shame if just one person suffering from severe chronic pain made a bad decision based upon a knee jerk response in this forum. Always, always discuss your own situation with a competent pain management specialist before making any decisions about chronic pain. I guess that's about it. cheers
ray
My first original post, here goes.
I am posting not a question, but largely comments, comments based on observing posts here the last few days. During the last few days I have seen what appears to be legitimate chronic pain patients posting here, reading comments about "addiction" and "abuse", getting scared by these, and then posting things like, "how do I get off my meds" or "I just flushed all my meds down the toilet after reading about ______ in such and such a post". I just wanted to go on the record and state that there is nothing wrong with using the opioid to manage legitimate chronic pain. It has been used in that capacity since the dawn of recorded history and modern medicine has still been unable to improve upon the simple alkaloids in that much-maligned flower.
I have seen first hand how chronic pain can devastate a person's life and severely impact the lives of the people around them. My dad, a carpenter now for 40 years, had two bad falls, one back in the early 80s, the other in the early 90s. He fractured vertebrate in his back both times. He has metal fused on either side of his spine. He lived (and continued to work) in agony for years before he began to start seeking relief from his pain. At the end he could barely move; it took him 10 minutes to get out of bed in the morning, it was astounding the pain he endured. By the time he began seeking relief of this problem, it was after the prescription drug epidemic had broken out and made its way through the media like a wildfire. It took him 9 months and umpteen pain clinic visits before he could get simple percocet script, let alone something that would actually provide him any real relief. All of this because of junkies like myself, junkies who used and abused the system so long that med students now spend half their med school time learning about spotting drug seekers rather than real medicine. I mean, it has gotten so bad that when a patient presents complaining of pain, the docs now usually roll their eyes at you unless there is a sucking chest wound or a sword coming out of your back. This has always made me feel guilty. I think it took about 18 months before my dad and his pain specialist found a formulation that worked, in the form of controlled-release dilaudid (HydromorphContin 18mg capsules). Now, before us junkies forced doctors into the lie detection and skepticism business, he would have probably been sorted by his primary care physician 12 months prior to that - 12 months is a long time to go when you are in pure agony. Trust me.
How has this changed his life? Well, when he wants to get out of bed, he does so. He can hold up his grandchildren now, even play with them, something he could never do. When he is not working, he is not confined to bed as he was. He takes walks again, is more productive at work, something that was his whole life, his work. I saw at the end of his "pain period" how his inability to do what he loved and took such great pride in his entire life was killing him, as sure as any cancer could. It broke my heart. Now that has all changed. He has a life again. Is he physically dependent on his pain medication now? Yep. Just like a diabetic depends on their insulin. He is not a "drug addict", I was, note the difference. Would people knee-jerk and tell them things like "that insulin is EVIL, STOP it at ONCE" and things of that sort? I have heard people say things like that about hydromorphone (Dilaudid), the very medication that gave my dad a semblance of a life again. I really think that people should more carefully consider their words before scaring people, scaring them so badly in some cases that they might make a foolish decision and stop taking their pain meds, consigning themselves to a life of pain and misery because someone on an internet forum said that Dilaudid was a product of the Infernal Regions. To many, it is a Godsend. I have seen it first hand. So please, before you post, consider that, consider that some people want their lives back, want them back from the misery of chronic pain. It really can devastate a life.
Now I am not a terribly religious person, I admit it, but at times things like the opioid molecule get me to wondering. I mean, here we have this flower that produces alkaloids, alkaloids which identically fit into our pain (opioid) control receptors. These are the same receptors that the body's naturally produced opioids (endorphins - short for endogenous morphine) fit into. That is like pulling a key from some random pile of hay and fitting it into the first car you come upon, greater odds even. It is astonishing actually. Sometimes nature is so perfect that it just gets me to wondering is all.
So yeah, there you have it. My point is this; there is a big difference between "addiction" (me) and "physical dependence" (my dad). We both used the same medications, but for very very different reasons. So yeah, I hope that I have removed some of the stigma against this miraculous molecule. It would be a real shame if just one person suffering from severe chronic pain made a bad decision based upon a knee jerk response in this forum. Always, always discuss your own situation with a competent pain management specialist before making any decisions about chronic pain. I guess that's about it. cheers
ray
chronic pain patient here...for 22 years...and i am an addict as well..so i am unfortunate as i have difficulty using as prescribed..and u know why? cos i can! they r there.right infront of me..and i am an addict..would love to be a ble to take them as prescribed but when ur tolerence goes out the roof they dont touch ur pain anyway....and i know about going on to stronger drugs but geez..i work and am not ready to be in in ozone right yet..and dilaudid is not an evil drug..a bit much for a tail bone...but long term narc users as a rule use dilaudid..we dont sicharge folks home with a scrip of that....they might get some hydros but even seeing that get less and less
addiction is painful..pain is painful 2 different types of anquish...ummmm..everyone is different...my narcotic addiction was burying me alive...i am trying to use what God gave me upstairs to deal with the pain...and u know daystrom i may not make it..if i were ur dad's age i would went on narcotics too...at 48..lots of life left i hope..it is circumstance..nothing in life is so cut and dry
addiction is painful..pain is painful 2 different types of anquish...ummmm..everyone is different...my narcotic addiction was burying me alive...i am trying to use what God gave me upstairs to deal with the pain...and u know daystrom i may not make it..if i were ur dad's age i would went on narcotics too...at 48..lots of life left i hope..it is circumstance..nothing in life is so cut and dry
I agree with your post...And i have seen many here, whom i thought could not tell the difference between addiction, and physical depenence-and tolerence..I started this terrible addiction from pain, and ended up so addicted that my way to get them, became un like who i am....I still have pain ( not near what your dad or some others have) but for me, I cannot have them....But I can let someone else have them and give them as needed, which i have done recently for removal of my gallbladder...I have to say, I held off taking them , and put myself through more pain then i should of...But thank god they worked differently this time, because of the pain i guess, or just because in my mind, I wanted nothing to do with them...Either way I am an addict..And that really SUCKSS!!
r2r
I am glad your dad finally found someone to help him, and he is living a life worth living!!
r2r
I am glad your dad finally found someone to help him, and he is living a life worth living!!
You are a kind and passionate soul. Many believe that addiction is a genetic defect in the pain receptor that one is born with. Some addiction docs feel like addicts should stay on suboxone forever to feel normal, like insulin for diabetics. What are your thoughts on this?
I too have seen narcotics help so many patients in a positive way. They are used for cancer pain all the time which is my field.
I too have seen narcotics help so many patients in a positive way. They are used for cancer pain all the time which is my field.
I agree and am aware of the pain forum. My only concern here was about others who may be confusing "addiction" and "physical depenence" as was certainly the case in one or two posters, for sure. My only aim was to highlight the distinction because a few posters who struck me as legitimate pain patients were coming in and getting scared by some of the responses. Off hand I recall one female type who was stating how her meds let her basically be a mother to her children, how she couldn't do so effectively without them and she was getting scared by posts about addiction. There were others. So yeah, that was the point of my post.
cheers
ray
cheers
ray
I understand what your saying but this specific forum is for subtance abuse/ addiction, therefore most of us are going to have the harsher opinon and say something that may "scare" someone else..If in fact a person is looking to manage pain..there is a forum for that as well. I truly believe that most people know that they are abusing their drugs when they seek help..
Hey avisg, I gotcha, totally. I know pain patients who abuse there meds as well. A good friend of mine had a nasty shoulder injury while playing hockey. He had several operations but nothing that proved terribly successful. His shoulder is visibly misaligned. His doctor started him on Dilaudid 2mg tablets, 4 times a day. Eventually, because of tolerance, he was bumped to 4mg tablets and now is on 8mg tabs, 4 times daily. Anyway, yeah, he usually runs out of his meds halfway through the month. He uses his meds to "relax", "unwind" and deal with stress. He admits as much. He has a bad day with the girl friend, he pops a dillie. Raining out, pop a dillie. Late for work.... you get the idea. That is not to say that he does not have very real pain. He is an addict. He takes his medication incorrectly, he takes it to deal with things it is not meant to deal with. He uses it as a crutch, a psychological crutch. The guy has virtually no coping mechanisms left as a result because the pills have replaced any coping mechanisms he had. Complete addict.
My ex was very similar, she used and abused any time she had the smallest of problems. Now I was a junkie as well, big time, but I was pretty regimental about my use. I dosed every 6 hours with diacetylmorphine, oxymorphone or hydromorphone, every 4 with fentanyl or silfentanyl (because it has a very short duration of action). I very very rarely ever broke my schedule, I can recall every time I did they were so few - one was when I found my cousin dead on his apartment floor for example. My girl would shoot up if the mail was late or if she felt that a particular episode of Desperate Housewives was not terribly good. In the final analysis though, we were both junkies through and through, I was just more anal about it all.
But yeah, the three of us were classic addicts. My friend was in spite the fact that he had pain issues. My dad however takes his HydromorphContin exactly as directed. He religiously consults with his pain doctor about his situation. Initially he was very hesitant to start taking "drugs". My dad barely has a drink of alcohol and was always a teetotaler. That is what kept him from seeking help. I think a part of it was that he didn't want to admit weakness.
I dunno, but one thing I am certain of is that his life has improved immeasurably since he began treating his pain and this has had a ripple effect for all those around him. My brother and sister's kids sure seem happy to have a grand dad around who interacts with them, not the lump in the bed he was before beginning a pain management protocol with his doctor. Another benefit to his pain management is that by killing the pain in his back, he has been able to better exercise the muscles in his abdomen and back, and these strengthened muscles actually allow him to better support his injured spine, which in turn results in less pain over all, and this, according to his doctor, will allow them to gradually step back the dosages somewhat and still maintain even pain management. You see, his pain management strategy is more than just popping HydromorphContins, it is a comprehensive approach that includes physiotherapy, exercise and a number of other forms of therapy. If you could see the before and after situation, you would be hard pressed to argue that the change has been truly astounding and that a significant improvement in terms of quality and enjoyment of life has taken place.
So yeah, I totally agree that a pain patient can abuse his or her medication. The opioid is a very powerful draw; there is not anything else out there in terms of drugs that can so quickly and powerfully make it seem as if all your problems have disappeared, and therein lies the pitfall. It is, as was mentioned, a contentious issue and main and only reason for posting was that I feel it would be a real tragedy for just one legitimate pain patient to be scared off by a silly statement like "dilaudid is the most wicked, vile invention since the atomic bomb" or some such. That is nonsense. It is how the dilaudid is used (or misused) that attaches any right or wrong to the thing.
and thanks r2r, I totally agree, it is a contentious issue to be sure, and one that invokes passionate response from people who have been caught in the front lines of this whole thing.
cheers everyone!
ray
My ex was very similar, she used and abused any time she had the smallest of problems. Now I was a junkie as well, big time, but I was pretty regimental about my use. I dosed every 6 hours with diacetylmorphine, oxymorphone or hydromorphone, every 4 with fentanyl or silfentanyl (because it has a very short duration of action). I very very rarely ever broke my schedule, I can recall every time I did they were so few - one was when I found my cousin dead on his apartment floor for example. My girl would shoot up if the mail was late or if she felt that a particular episode of Desperate Housewives was not terribly good. In the final analysis though, we were both junkies through and through, I was just more anal about it all.
But yeah, the three of us were classic addicts. My friend was in spite the fact that he had pain issues. My dad however takes his HydromorphContin exactly as directed. He religiously consults with his pain doctor about his situation. Initially he was very hesitant to start taking "drugs". My dad barely has a drink of alcohol and was always a teetotaler. That is what kept him from seeking help. I think a part of it was that he didn't want to admit weakness.
I dunno, but one thing I am certain of is that his life has improved immeasurably since he began treating his pain and this has had a ripple effect for all those around him. My brother and sister's kids sure seem happy to have a grand dad around who interacts with them, not the lump in the bed he was before beginning a pain management protocol with his doctor. Another benefit to his pain management is that by killing the pain in his back, he has been able to better exercise the muscles in his abdomen and back, and these strengthened muscles actually allow him to better support his injured spine, which in turn results in less pain over all, and this, according to his doctor, will allow them to gradually step back the dosages somewhat and still maintain even pain management. You see, his pain management strategy is more than just popping HydromorphContins, it is a comprehensive approach that includes physiotherapy, exercise and a number of other forms of therapy. If you could see the before and after situation, you would be hard pressed to argue that the change has been truly astounding and that a significant improvement in terms of quality and enjoyment of life has taken place.
So yeah, I totally agree that a pain patient can abuse his or her medication. The opioid is a very powerful draw; there is not anything else out there in terms of drugs that can so quickly and powerfully make it seem as if all your problems have disappeared, and therein lies the pitfall. It is, as was mentioned, a contentious issue and main and only reason for posting was that I feel it would be a real tragedy for just one legitimate pain patient to be scared off by a silly statement like "dilaudid is the most wicked, vile invention since the atomic bomb" or some such. That is nonsense. It is how the dilaudid is used (or misused) that attaches any right or wrong to the thing.
and thanks r2r, I totally agree, it is a contentious issue to be sure, and one that invokes passionate response from people who have been caught in the front lines of this whole thing.
cheers everyone!
ray
I totally agree with your post....and avis i agree with you also....This is a very intense issue....I will say this----When i found this forum, I typed in " Opiate addiction" " Please help" " ruining my life" etc...I didnt' type in " Help me find a doctor , I am in serious pain" etc....There is a pain management forum here, and those there probably found it because they were not "drug seeking" like I was.....But If any here do read this post...And have a situation like your dads ( which i have seen here) then we refer them to pain management forum....
Great post!
r2r
Great post!
r2r
Yes there is however there are many of us the deal with cronic pain as well as being addicts. Sure I could sit here and say it's perfectly fine for me to take opiates because I am in pain and if I could mange that with out abusing the meds I would but I am an addict therefore I cant do that.
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