Suboxone - Is is worth it???

I've been taking around 15 10mg vikes a day for about a year now.  Have quit cold turkey three times and always seem to fall off the wagon.  I'm getting ready to quit again and have a friend that just started Suboxone treatment. He says it's a "miracle" drug and he fells great with no cravings.  I've got an apointment this Friday to get started on Suboxone, but after researching it online, it seems like it may lead to a worse addiction.  The doc I spoke with said you have to be on it a minimum of 6 months, and I'm not prepared to commit to that.  I did speak with a couple approved docs, and the whole thing seems a little secretive and strange.  The feedback online has mostly shown that people have a horrible time detoxing from it, and the withdrawals last for weeks to months even when tapering off.  Has anyone actually used this drug for detox and gotten off in a fairly short period of time??  I''m wondering if the Suboxone thing is somewhat new, and something that will eventually end up being a big mistake.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

Sub is already a big mistake.........I am willing to wager that your friend is still on the sub.. you can quit a medium hydro habit with intestinal fortitude and support.....and preperation.    Keep researching and reading ........knowledge is an answer here..

[paintrip]

theeagle,  Do you have experience with Subs??  The way it's marketed really does seem to good to be true.

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

Yes I do have experience with subs.......along with all of the narcotics - - - Sub is being touted as a golden bb ...............much the same as methadone was a long while back.  It is a tool for addiction - but that is all, a tool.  Way too many Docs are using it to address small hydro habits ....and their patients are paying the price. There is starting to be a huge amount of money in the addiction game.  And many of the Docs that are getting qualified to dispense sub are doing it as a cash adjunct for their practices.........

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

A very easy thing to do is ask your friend what his "quit" plan is .........if the Doc is just giving sub and they havent even spoken about quiting entirely with a sound plan on paper - then the friend is in big trouble.  Sub isnt a good choice for long term maintenance - - - -  - - its another addiction to quite sometime at that point.  Gotta do the program properly if you expect it to work ..

[paintrip]

No quit time discussed with my friend. Can sub be used for a 2 month detox, and if so, are the WD's less than normal Vike WD?  I was wanting to get on the  sub's for a very short time to hopefully take a somewhat easy road out. Both docs I spoke with wanted you to take it for six months minimum.

[10356]

There is no easy way out of wd... With Sub even tapered the wd will be worse then your 15 a day habit as it last longer.. It dose not cure the craving..  They will still be there when you stop.. Sub was suppose to be used for a short time 6 weeks worked with meetings and counseling intense involvement... What it has turned into is Dr. Legally ripping off addicts playing on the fear of wd.... I believe it has a place if worked properly.. I would read the forum look at back post.. I wish you well on whatever decision you make.. lesa

[ethereal1]

"What it has turned into is Dr. Legally ripping off addicts playing on the fear of wd..."

i agree completely. it's all about the $$$.

10 days on subs, then jump. that's my advice. take ONLY ENOUGH to keep you well, which in your case might be 1mg, 2mg, etc., or even less. you can always take more if you need to.

cut your doses down over the 10 days. if you start with 1mg (remember, Sub has a half-life of approx 37 hours (meaning .5mg of that 1mg is still occupying your receptors after 1.5 days. Then another 37 hours later, half of that will be gone (.25mg) 37 hours later, half of that will be gone (.125mg), etc., etc.) So it 'builds up' and lasts a long time. Just take as little as necessary. at the end of your 'taper' try going a day without, then two days, etc. but i wouldn't stay on it more than 10 days total (the days you actually *take* it), IMHO.

be well
e1

[paintrip]

e1,  Do you think 10 days on the subs will be an easier route than going CT taking valium and clonodine for symptoms??  I'm obviously looking for the easiest, least painful way out, but I know it's gonna suck either way.  Everything I've read about Suboxone scares the ***** out of me, but if 10 days on and bail will be easier than CT, then I may consider it.  I've got an apointment with sub doctor of Friday, and need to make a decision.  Thanks for your input!!!

[wannabefree330]

In your situation I'd go CT using the valium and clonidine.  My last relapse lead to me using over 60 lortab 10/325's a day.  Yes 60 pills a day.  I tried CT, and tapering, but due to the large amount I was consuming I went on suboxone.  I don't see it as a miracle drug, nor do I see it as the easy way out, as I know i'm not "out" yet.  However, I do go to NA/AA twice a week, and I attend an aftercare meeting once a week also.  Since I left detox 2 months ago now, I have cut my sub dose in half.  I was at 32mg of sub a day when I left detox, and now I'm at 16.  Next week I will cut it down to 12.  As 10356 said, there is no easy way my friend.  But with the amount you are using a day, take a few days off, and just CT it.  The 'flu' won't kill you.  you will make it, as many others have.

[paintrip]

Thanks Bro!!  Disregard my PM, and I''m feeling a little impatient tonight.  Good luck to you...

[ethereal1]

to answer your question to me, it's all going to depend on how you feel.

you may find that a CRUMB (like a grain of salt) of Suboxone may get you through, along with the clonodine/valium. you'll have to decide when you get there.

but i can tell you that Sub w/d is much easier than full-agonist opies like Vics/Percs/etc., even though it lasts longer. that's why i recommended 10 days and skipping days at the end. Sub allows you to be productive, while not constantly thinking 'i need a Vic!' every millisecond. the secret with Sub is to not take more than you actually NEED because, believe me, you can and will get addicted to Subs, too. and if you're going to be addicted to something, it might as well be something GOOD! ; )

play it by ear. everyone is different.

e1

[ochooked]

Hi Paintrip --- I was on Sub for 21 days to get clear of a long heavy Oxy addiction.  Let me tell you first hand that getting off of Sub (even in 21 days) is a nightmare from He!!.   As Eagle told you, Sub is a tool --- only a tool -- but before you use it you should read some posts from those who did.   Go to the Health Pages (above right side of this page) and look for a post entitled "Members experiences coming off of Suboxone".  It may help you decide about which tool you use to get clean.  The moderator of this board put this together from many people who actually used it and then wrote about it.  Doctors are generally clueless as to how to prescribe Sub and also clueless as to how to dose it correctly.  This posts by members is about the most complete statments about what to expect -- some of them liked it - most didn't.  Wish you all the best --Happy Thanksgiving.

[voiceofreason]

Whoever said use a "crumb" is correct in my opinion ( if you must ). If all you have taken is Vics I would NEVER even think of useing Suboxone. Its a very strong drug much stronger than Vics. Just do the flu for 7 days and your homefree (kinda)............

Suboxone is used for herion addiction, roxy and oxy addiction and MUCH heavier drugs than Vics. Sure, everyone wants an easy detox, and it works,  but I would NOT play with this drug. And yes I have been on it........... and vics and roxys and morphine. I was on it for pain management and it scared me so bad that I went back to Roxys and Im glad I did.

[paintrip]

Thanks to all of you for the confirming what I had began to expect about using Suboxone. Going CT starting in the morning.  I'm sure I'll come here for some support.  Thanks again!!!!

[mr.lucky66]

I think now this site has an accurate opinion on sub for detox. Before when I would  question sub docs and their long term plans and motives, people would want to crusify me. Now that so many people have tried sub and gotten worse, opinions have swung around the other way. I especially don't like sub for hydro . Like eagle said. a little intestinal fortitude and some valium and or clonidine is much better. This combo has worked well for me kicking much stronger narcotics. all the best

[cattalina]

Awesome advice here - I'm impressed that you came looking for answers and elated that you're taking the advice you've been given. With your habit you'll definitely be better off for it in the long run. Sub is definitely already a big mistake and in 15 years no-one will have anything positive to say about it at all... and that's my opinion as someone on suboxone! Just wanted to add - on the right hand side of the screen there's something called the Thomas Recipe and Amino Acid Protocol. Many people swear by them when detoxing. Stay strong and keep posting. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Mikeinthesouth]

wds off vicadin I would have to say hell no why add something more to deal with. I am not minimizing your wds i know the pain but like I said why add more.... Just suck it up which I am not just saying but doing from years of heavy narcotic use......... Good Luck and love to you in your endeavor to get clean. It is much worth it.... Mike

[Mikeinthesouth]

I fully agree wholeheartidly with eagle...

[avisg]

There are members experiences being on and coming off of suboxone in the "health pages" when you have time go check them out ...
Good Luck
avis

[hawaiimed]

please forgive if this response is pure bs; but if as some say, that Vic is easier to quit than Sub, and one has some Vics, and is trying to get off sub,...
what if they took the vics as a bridge for tapering and jumping?

[avisg]

That would be addictive behavior using one drug to get of another .After you get off the sub you are back on the vics.That is never recommended on the site

[neaclow]

I have been on sub's for awhile now, and have started to taper without any trouble at all.  I had a 300-400 a day Oxy habit when I decided to quit.  

As far as the money racket is concerned, it is on that part of the argument that I agree.  The sub program isn't cheap, but I'm not paying a buck a milligram like I was pre-sobriety.  When I get aggrivated about the costs I think back to the bad check writing, worrying about FOOD state of mind and feel better.  They do take GREAT advantage of addicts...but in my opinion  my dealer did the same thing ya know?? Nobody that isn't addicted wouldn't, in their right mind, pay that much for something.  It's a two way street in my opinion.......only difference is one is legal and one isn't.

My experience with suboxone has been wonderful.  I've not looked back since taking it.  When I started it, aside from being shocked at it's effectiveness...I didn't feel "high" or whatever.  I did get a little sleepy but that's all.  I can't say that even though I had no physical symptoms that I didn't ever crave the buzz....but the sub kept me straight.

I have already started weaning off of it....it's been 6mths.  They started me off on two a day, which I took for a couple of days but realized it was making me sleepy so I cut back to one.  One was more then enough, but as an addict does I continued to take the one, still asking for the two because I was terrified at some point I might need it.,..you know how that goes.  My safety blanket so to speak.

So, after awhile I realized I was spending more on my script then I needed so I asked the doc to ween me down.  Which he did, he took away half of my original does which was the one 8MG Sub twice a day.

He did that, and I continued to take away half of the one I was taking.  I did so, with absolutely no problem whatsoever.  No sweats, no intestinal issues, no nothing...I was sleeping fine....no discomfort as I had expected.

So..I took a half for three weeks....no problem.  I then changed it myself to a quarter....nervous as all get out.  I have been taking a quarter for a week now with again, no change.  Actually, I'm kinda glad b/c that tang-taste was getting to be a dreaded point of my day.

I will do this for awhile, knowing me I'll go down to a half of a quarter LMAO....all the way down to a grian of sand...merely cause I'm a pansy but hey, I'm sober.

I have had a grand experience with it........I am convinced, with the stories that I've heard in group, that people that have eitehr A. taken methadone pre SUB or B. been almost completely GONE (meaning an inch from death) need more then 8 MG of it a day.  I can see how, if you take it (more then 8 MG for a mild habit) you'd be hurting more then helping if you're going cold turkey....

I think experiences vary...but if it scares you....no matter how your body goes with the actualy meds..you're mind may well psych you out worse then anything causing your experience to suck no matter what.  

Whatever method you use, stay focused, stay positive and know, without a doubt you're doing the right thing!!!

Have I yet AGAIN rambled?? HAHAHAHA...sorry!!!!!!!!

[ochooked]

Hi Neaclow ---- Please stay and post as you get off the Sub --- It would be most interesting to hear from you.  So far we have not heard much from those who hold your opinion of Sub AFTER they are completely off of it.  Lots of members who post have given horror stories of jumping after they were on a crumb every day and then every other day -- but then had W/D's for months after they made the jump ---- We would love to hear from you again so please keep posting.  Good luck to you and I wish you the best.  I hope you feel the same after you are clear of Sub

[mr.lucky66]

I agree with oc, it sounds like sub is working well for you as a maintenience drug, but check back when you are completly off. That's when most people have the problems. all the best

[brittbrittOhYEa]

Ok, suboxone shouldnt be given to someone with a small addiction to hydrocodone. It should be given to people with real problems. Like high doses of oxycontin and methadone. Ive been on suboxone for a full year and it is amazing. It does not **** my up, rather keeps me sober and helps me deal. It is meant to be kind of long term. But my opinion is if your just taking lortabs, dont start suboxone.

[liscamdave]

Um, Sub is NOT meant to be taken long term...lol...it is a partial opiate. And if taken long term, it is subsittuting one drug for another. I agree you are right about people with smaller addictions shouldn't be prescribed sub, but why do you think they shouldn't?? Because of how strong sub is. Sub is keeping you out of w.d. and from returning to your previous DOC. ANd while you are not abusing the sub or dr.shopping or counting pills, or any of the norm addict behavior, you are still very dependant on an opiate. Be careful with longterm use of sub. I hear its hard to get off when on it over one month.

[minnis2]

i just took half of an 8 ,illigram suboxone for my first time . i had a 6- 7 lorcet 10-650 a day habit for 2 + years . when i took the suboxone i felt a ruch like nothing else a couple of times i thought i was going to puke then i though ti was going to pass out my doctor gave me 30 plus a refill but i believe i will only take as little as possible i think i will start with a quarter of one tomorrow any advice guys i cant take off work to detox and i have 3 lovely kids that need me i need help!!!!

[steveo30]

suboxone should not even be available to ANYONE.never put on the market period.it's all about the money.we are ginny pigs.i wouldn't suggest this drug to my worst enemy.i went through withdrawals from methadone 1 year ago.i wanted to die,and now they come up with this new med suboxone which is supposed to be the cure all,ya right,it's worse than the meth.sickening.

[WifeOfAddict99]

My husband has been on Suboxone for almost 5 months and is not taking it as perscribed.  I would recommend NO ONE to take Suboxone.  His doctor perscribes him each month even after my husband admitting that me complaints were true.  He has mast recently ran out of his perscription 2 wks early and has gotten a script for klonopin.  Does anyone know much about klonopin? Disgusted!

[star84]

ive been there done that and i would say get on the subs with the doc supervision and he will wing u off ive done it so i know and ive been clean a year.i know take nothing an i felt the winging off was nothing compard to the full affect of opiate w\d.