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Suboxones
I read all your stories, mostly the ones, who are on Suboxones. I have been for many years on a Detox page, and read all horror stories and how they tried to get off. I, myself, am on painkillers (too long a story, over 30 surgeries, now car accident, endless pains). I just want to make one point that I learned on the Detox page, namely, if Suboxones are taken too long, they are severely addictive, too. I read stories where the people screamed for help, thinking they got off of narcotics and then were hooked on Suboxones. I have never tried it but read it and had an email girl friend who was brutally hooked on the Subs. Why would a doc change one dangerous (addiction) pill for another one? As mentioned, I have never tried it, just read on the Detox page.
Suzie1974
This discussion is related to getting off oxycodone.
Suzie1974
This discussion is related to getting off oxycodone.
I really enjoy Leipzig, I travel there a lot from the states as I am a flight attendant. Been to germany over 250 times in the past two years. I practically live there! However believe it or not, I have yet to see the alps! :-(
Maybe you still read it, but I doubt it. LEIPZIG is the previous East of Germany. I couldn't go there, I lived in the West, better said, West Berlin. Berlin was divided by 4; French, British, Russian, American, thus, I lived in the American Sector and married an American. You will love Germany, don't miss to go to the Alps, Munich and Garmisch and Berchtesgaden. My husband wanted never to return to the states and so do many, many GIs. They retire in Germany, I might relocate too.
Best wishes for the time over there,
Suzie1974
Best wishes for the time over there,
Suzie1974
Dear Mr. Henry,
Somewhat you misunderstood my mail; I am German and maybe I expressed myself not clearly. I have never been on Suboxone, just read about it. I mentioned that I got messed up by an urlogist 1993 and got immediately in so much pain, you got to go to the Web side: www.TIPNA.org to read what for a brutal condition it is (Pudendel Nerve). People committed suicide for pain. I went to France, after 11 years screaming and crying and got fixed. I tapered down my Vicodin by myself, and since the last 4 days - first time since then - I have not even an urge to use one. My email friend - from the Detox page - used Sub... and complaint later on that the W/D are the same. Eventually, she stoped writing back to me, but on the Opiate Detox Recovery page, wow, people eat the pills like candies. No, I am aware of all this horror and, although in severe neck-shoulder-and headaches (car accident 11/11/08) I am down to one Vicodin or none. It is the Xanax, that is develish. But I lost a loved husband and only darling daughter in the Air Force, and I am not even willing to give up on Xanax, but it totaled daily about 3-4. So, Mr. Henry, don't feel sorry for "us" or me, I sadly don't know what happened to the mail friend. I strongly believe that tapering slowly down, especially if one has no pain, is the best way. People can DO it, I read it. It was a torture and they took baby steps or by hours. An interesting page, too.
Thank you for your reply, are you out of the woods?
Greetings,
Suzie1974
Somewhat you misunderstood my mail; I am German and maybe I expressed myself not clearly. I have never been on Suboxone, just read about it. I mentioned that I got messed up by an urlogist 1993 and got immediately in so much pain, you got to go to the Web side: www.TIPNA.org to read what for a brutal condition it is (Pudendel Nerve). People committed suicide for pain. I went to France, after 11 years screaming and crying and got fixed. I tapered down my Vicodin by myself, and since the last 4 days - first time since then - I have not even an urge to use one. My email friend - from the Detox page - used Sub... and complaint later on that the W/D are the same. Eventually, she stoped writing back to me, but on the Opiate Detox Recovery page, wow, people eat the pills like candies. No, I am aware of all this horror and, although in severe neck-shoulder-and headaches (car accident 11/11/08) I am down to one Vicodin or none. It is the Xanax, that is develish. But I lost a loved husband and only darling daughter in the Air Force, and I am not even willing to give up on Xanax, but it totaled daily about 3-4. So, Mr. Henry, don't feel sorry for "us" or me, I sadly don't know what happened to the mail friend. I strongly believe that tapering slowly down, especially if one has no pain, is the best way. People can DO it, I read it. It was a torture and they took baby steps or by hours. An interesting page, too.
Thank you for your reply, are you out of the woods?
Greetings,
Suzie1974
Im sorry for what you and your friend are going through.
Suboxone is a very misunderstood drug. Combine that with doctors that prescribe sub without disclosing all of its plusses and minuses, and toting it as a miracle pill... its understandable as to why so many are frustrated with this treatment.
There is substantial evidence that the severity of suboxone wd's depends on the length of time and amount of the users original DOC, not the suboxone use. Suboxone in a sense "Halts" the wd and addiction process. Its the long term chemical changes in our brains that determines the severity of ones withdrawal.
The more often and longer that we feed our brains with foreign opiates, the less our brains produce our own natural opiates (Endorphins) The brain thinks "Im getting all these receptors activated (From our DOC) so why should I work to produce endorphins to activate them." The longer the drug use, the "Lazier" our brains become in this regard.
When we discontinue our drug use, our bodies wont produce any endorphins, and have decreased the production of other feel good neurotransmitters. Which causes acute withdrawal syndrome.
Enter suboxone- Buprenorphine still activates the receptors as our DOC did. Which is why our wd's stop when taking suboxone. When we stop the suboxone, we ultimately pick up where we left off. There is some evidence that subocxone allows and promotes healing of the endorphin system to some extent (However I cant find those studies ATM)
Suboxone was designed to give us addicts a reprieve of the obsessing and compulsing that we do as active addicts. It was meant that during that time we utilize a dual approach to treating our addictions. Medicine (Sub) and Psychological therapy. We learn how to live life without the obsessing, have a chance to fix and accept the reasons why we used in the first place.
After a period of working on these things, we are more confident and have the strength to get through the detox process. This in itself can alter our perception as to the severity of the withdrawals themselves!
I came off suboxone without much of a taper at 3mgs. It can be done!!! I didnt feel great, but I was able to continue with my daily activites the whole time during my detox. Many others here have as well!
My best advice to your friend is- Use this time to work on her life, fix the things that need fixing, make positive life changes. Build a strong support system!
Best regards,
Henry
Suboxone is a very misunderstood drug. Combine that with doctors that prescribe sub without disclosing all of its plusses and minuses, and toting it as a miracle pill... its understandable as to why so many are frustrated with this treatment.
There is substantial evidence that the severity of suboxone wd's depends on the length of time and amount of the users original DOC, not the suboxone use. Suboxone in a sense "Halts" the wd and addiction process. Its the long term chemical changes in our brains that determines the severity of ones withdrawal.
The more often and longer that we feed our brains with foreign opiates, the less our brains produce our own natural opiates (Endorphins) The brain thinks "Im getting all these receptors activated (From our DOC) so why should I work to produce endorphins to activate them." The longer the drug use, the "Lazier" our brains become in this regard.
When we discontinue our drug use, our bodies wont produce any endorphins, and have decreased the production of other feel good neurotransmitters. Which causes acute withdrawal syndrome.
Enter suboxone- Buprenorphine still activates the receptors as our DOC did. Which is why our wd's stop when taking suboxone. When we stop the suboxone, we ultimately pick up where we left off. There is some evidence that subocxone allows and promotes healing of the endorphin system to some extent (However I cant find those studies ATM)
Suboxone was designed to give us addicts a reprieve of the obsessing and compulsing that we do as active addicts. It was meant that during that time we utilize a dual approach to treating our addictions. Medicine (Sub) and Psychological therapy. We learn how to live life without the obsessing, have a chance to fix and accept the reasons why we used in the first place.
After a period of working on these things, we are more confident and have the strength to get through the detox process. This in itself can alter our perception as to the severity of the withdrawals themselves!
I came off suboxone without much of a taper at 3mgs. It can be done!!! I didnt feel great, but I was able to continue with my daily activites the whole time during my detox. Many others here have as well!
My best advice to your friend is- Use this time to work on her life, fix the things that need fixing, make positive life changes. Build a strong support system!
Best regards,
Henry
Like bmdad said
seeking drugs that when a habit goes over the prescription limit that drs will prescribe, can be become a dangerous occupation! People u never would associate with if u were not seeking pills or drugs. I was never as deep as many get and still had these experiences...My pusher/so to say/didnt like it when I bought too many..I think deep down he cared and knew what may heppen to me. He was an aloholic and x heroin addict. Would not touch his Lortab scrip tho. He sold em all. If he was in need of money, the caring about my addiction, went to he11 in a handbag tho ..glad he is gone
I am a chronic painer. A professional who never saw any of this coming. I found out it can happen to anyone. Some folks get plenty from their dr so they dont have to hit the streets. In this area they r very careful/most drs r. I was lucky to get a scrip for 30 a mth. I do know a person who gets a scrip for 200-300 mgs of oxy a month can have a problem as well cos my neighbor does.
She feels she is better than I cos she never hit the streets tho and her habit is twice what mine was?
Go figure?
seeking drugs that when a habit goes over the prescription limit that drs will prescribe, can be become a dangerous occupation! People u never would associate with if u were not seeking pills or drugs. I was never as deep as many get and still had these experiences...My pusher/so to say/didnt like it when I bought too many..I think deep down he cared and knew what may heppen to me. He was an aloholic and x heroin addict. Would not touch his Lortab scrip tho. He sold em all. If he was in need of money, the caring about my addiction, went to he11 in a handbag tho ..glad he is gone
I am a chronic painer. A professional who never saw any of this coming. I found out it can happen to anyone. Some folks get plenty from their dr so they dont have to hit the streets. In this area they r very careful/most drs r. I was lucky to get a scrip for 30 a mth. I do know a person who gets a scrip for 200-300 mgs of oxy a month can have a problem as well cos my neighbor does.
She feels she is better than I cos she never hit the streets tho and her habit is twice what mine was?
Go figure?
When people become addicted to opiates it can become a very dangerous lifestyle. Some of the dangers are buying off of the streets and not always knowing what you are getting. Constantly being high which effects every aspect of ones life including the people around them. Addicts will often go to extremes to get the pills their body is screaming for. Many will spend every last cent and many hours a day looking for pills. Many addicts turn to doctor shopping which is illegal and can lead to jail time. Hydrocodone, oxycodone, and some other opiates have acetaminophen in them. When taken in large doses this is toxic to the liver which can lead to liver damage and death. Most of us addicts eventually end up with a habit of over 25 vicodin a day or more. If you add up the mg of acetaminophen that ends up being over 10,000mg a day. Suboxone has saved many people's life. It may be addicting but it is much safer than many opiates. It gives people a chance to get out of their addictive behaviors and get their life back on track. Not everyone can taper or go cold turkey. Some need a program to get back on track.
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I live in the US, but I will be on my way to Germany tomorrow evening for work. Leipzig to be exact.
That condition sounds quite painful, I hope you can find some relief!
Henry