Switch from Sub to Methadone?

I saw a new dr today. Just started Sub last Thursday but that Dr wasn't the right one for me. I really like the new Dr & they also offer counseling - the other doc didn't. Meant with the counselor & liked her too. The thing is, this doc thinks I need to be in Meth due to the amount & the time I was using & still have chronic pain. I had a chance to speak to 3 other pt's at the clinic. 2 were on meth & 1 on Sub but had been in Meth. They all agreed the methadone was really helping them. The lady in Sub said she would prefer the meth but due to where she lived couldn't drive over everyday. She said the Sub helped but had been taking it a long time & still has cravings. I commented that it must take a lot of willpower & that I don't have that right now & she said "I don't either" gave the impression that maybe she relapses. The dr would have started me on the meth today but wanted me to try the sub 1 more week & consider the commentment of driving to the clic everyday. It would be an hour from my house & then a little over an hr to work. Clinic doesn't open until 6am & I have to be at work at 8am. Has anyone ever switched from Sub to Meth?I wouldn't really love to hear any advice. Also, how does a once a day dose last? Are u sick every morning before u get to the clinic? Can u ever go on vacation or just out of town for a few days? How long could I go without it before I would get sick? I heard the wds are hell but doesn't the dr taper u so that u want get sick? Don't some people make a life choice to stay on it forever? My doc said since u do have pain I will probably have to take something forever anyway & that Meth is better on ur brain & body. I know this is a lot but I really need help with this decision. Everyone is swaying me toward the methadone.

[avisg]

may I ask u what u were on and how long you were on it?.Do u plan on being on methadone forever? do you realize methadone is probably one of the hardest drugs to come off of?What is the problem with the sub ? The counseling is great you want that regardless of any med route you might go down.

[shoegirl01]

I have had chronic back pain for 13 yrs finally started taking opiates in 2002. I tried a lot of different stuff but found good pain control with Avina 30mg 2xd & percocet 10mg 4xd. Stopped everything when I got pregnant excpet low dose of hydro 3xd. When my son was about 1 1/2 old the pain was out of control so I tried to take Avinza again but it made me feel weird so the doc put me on Opana 15mg 2xd. This was never the right med or at the right dose & I keep telling them that I was taking to many percs but they wouldn't change anything just sent me to the counselor sho seemed to agree I was being undertreated. I finally ended up just taking them as I needed them & then would get sick every month. I ended up at another dr who gave me 112 hydr 7.5mg a month & I got 120 Percs, 60 Opana, I would take from family & buy on the street & still run out 7-10 days short every month. I would go thru the worst of the wds but couldn't stand the lingering depression, anxiety & fatigue so I would go pick up my prescription as soon as they would be released. In the end I was snorting about 6 or more opanas a day & would take around 20 or so of the other just depending on what I had & if I could get my hands on more. I would take hydros , cough syrup even darvocet to help with the WDs along with klonopin & ambien. I hade to quit work for a bout 6 weeks & go thru an out pt. treatment for depression. I thought if I could find out why I was depressed & be treated that I could go back to taking my meds as prescribed since i had done it for about 8 yrs but I never told them about the pills. Did better while I was going but went back to the same thing after I stopped. I have tried my husband dispincing them to me & even tried a lock box with a timer which neither worked, I could always manage to get in the box or find where my husband was hiding them. The Sub just doesn't manage my cravings very well & I have NO will power right now. It would not take much probably for me to be right back in it again. Yes, I do feel like I would be on Methadone forever for pain. Had I not screwed up like this I would have been on some opiate forever for pain so I guess it might as well be Methadone. Did you have a bad experience on Meth? Have you tried Sub? What is your opinion? Everyone says Meth is hard to get off of as far as wds but doesn't the Dr. taper you down so that you don't have wds as bad?

[gnarly_1]

Hi and welcome to the forum....well if sub is not doing it for you methadone probably will
I just hate to see people get messed up with sub or methadone....I spent 6 1/2yrs on methadone for pain management started out with a regular pain management dr but had a falling out with him and wound up at a methadone clinic ...it worked well for managing pain but it comes at an awful cost...one of the worst addictions you can have...I started out on a low dose but over the years built up a tolerance to it and was up to 150ml by the time It quit working for pain control...then I was faced with getting off of it...it took me 8 1/2 mo to taper off and to say the least it was difficult...over time it has some nasty side effects...you'll put weight on..loose all of your sex drive...and generally live in a sorta fog that you dont notice till your off it...the list of side effects goes on and on...its no way to live life long term...and the withdrawal last for months.....I got 120days clean tomorrow and im just now over the last 30days starting to feel like myself again...both methadone and sub where designed to be used short term and only for the worst addictions like heroin or oxy...its not a good choice for hydros or perc addiction and should only be used as a last resort after trying everything else to get off first both sub and methadone have one of the worst withdrawals of all the narcotics so in the end its like jumping from the frying pan into the fire if your on sub now start to ween yourself off as soon as you can b/4 it gets its hooks into you to deep..as for methadone ....if someone was to offer it to me again..I
would run the other way...yes it killed the pain...but at a cost no one is willing to pay
as for your questions...it has a long 1/2 life and you wont be sick for a couple of days
so your not sick going to the clinic the next day...as you stay at it a wile they give you take home privileges and if your going out of town they usually can arrange for you to take some with you...just depends on you...you have to drop clean u/a's and
stick to there plan but if you do it dose get eazer with time at the clinic..all I can do is warn you of how nasty the stuff is and try to discourage you from going down this road...you have to make the final decision for yourself ...good luck and God bless....Gnarly    

[shoegirl01]

So it isn't something that I could take forever for pain? So my choices are 1. Live as an addict & suffer or 2. Live with intractable pain & suffer? Is there anything else out there? Is the Methadone hard to stop because of the WDs or because it still makes you feel "high" & so you don't want to quit? The people I met at the clinic didn't seem high at all, completely normal but I don't know what dose they were on. What do you do now for pain management? Is there no way the Dr. can manage the side effects?
Thank you.

[worried878]

To me///methadaone and sub are very similar///one is not worse than the other...addiction to sub seems to happen faster than addiction to methadone for many, both are addicting as doo doo once u been on either for a while//they both get into ur bones and ur teeth for many//hard to shake//pqain relief wise, methadone is superior having taken both//both have a long wd..many would say methadone being the worse of the two//altho many sub withdrawers might argue this//methadone is cheaper as a rule and can be prescribed for pain in the US and sub can not///a scrip for methadone is cheap if a dr gives it to u for pain//the clinic route can be 17 bux a day or more
What u descibe above is not using for pain///this behavior is far past a chronic pain patient///as i am also a chronic painer with an addiction to boot///it becomes not about pain anymore and when u abuse to this extent//it is unlikely any pain med is gonna give u pain relief//only brain relief...neither methadone nor sub can make u clean//it is within u
as asked above//what r ur long term goals?  if a maintenence narctoic for life is what u need to maintain then that is what u need///if not then u need to know u will have to wd from both of these stcky drugs one day whichever one u choose//good chance ur tolerence will rise to either drug over time..10 mgs becomes 20 then 30 etc.....there is not enuf pils in the world for an addict//and there never will be
It could very well be that the person on sub who seems to "crave" is just not into this with her heart...it may not be a sub vs methadone issue....could be the peeps on methadone are using other drugs cos they can//and the sub girl gets no benefit from using other drugs cos she is on sub and it has a ceiling effect blocking other narcs....who knows///there is often more to the story tho...people who want to be clean//or who r clean///have a gleam in their eye u can not miss sometimes...like someone who just got saved!  Not baptist myself but do know this feeling////be sure u know what u want inside //be sure of ur goals and dont give up on urself til u tried all...then it is time to live a life on narcotics...and this may be the case for u..keep posting

[gnarly_1]

hey girlee....methadone is hard to stop because it has to be tapered off slowly
and you go thew withdrawals wile tapering off...sometimes just a little sometimes
you dont think youll ever get past them...and in the end it is shear misery
and no methadone dosent get you high unless you abuse it...wile tapering off
I would sometimes take a high dose just to get the "sick off " and wind up higher then a kite for the rest of the night..also would blow my taper and have to start over...not from the beginning but it would deffently set you back to a higher dose...and trust me you fight for ever drop you dont want to have to go back up and come down again
as for pain now ..I find like most people do after your off narcotics for a wile regular
otc stuff like motrin or tylanol actual work now.....your body sorta resets its pain clock...also your brain will create pain to get the narcotics...its a viscous cycle
but once you break it it does get better with time...im in less pain now then when I was on 150ml of methadone...btw thats a huge dose but again you build up a tolerance to it ...as for the side effects theirs not much you can do most take a wile to hit... a few yrs by the time you start to notice it .....Gnarly  

[shoegirl01]

One last question, you mentioned you don't get high from the methadone unless you abuse it. I thought the Sub & Methadone were both designed were you can't abuse. I know the sub is anyway. The narcotic in it is somewhat blocked & I read that if you do take anything else it is just wasted because the sub blocks it as well. If the clinic admin. your dose of Methadone how can you take more, after your allowed your take home doses? If that is the case I guess they would then eliminate your ability to take it home???

[gnarly_1]

hey girlee....I had 2 week take homes ...I wasent happy with the slow rate the clinic wanted me to drop doses only 2ml a week so I took it into my own hands and weened
myself off using my take homes I went at 10% every 72hr and after a few mo I had
a bunch of it saved ..as I was saying b/4 you get "dope sick " coming off of it
so once in a wile rather then be sick I would take like 100ml when I was dosing
at 20 just to get the sick off ...when you take that much more then you need it makes you high ......Gnarly

[shoegirl01]

Do you knowanyone that has decided to make the choice to stay on it for life? I know a couple, not really friends, just bought pills from them some & that is what they have done. They just seem pleasantly screwed up all the time,kinda like they have been drinking or smoking weed & taking Xanax or something but supose to be on Meth & nothing else. Think they r on something else all the time too? They did mention not getting to bring home doses because of failed drug test. I guess that was what I was hoping for, a way to still get a buzz but it be "ok" with everyone since I was "in treatment" But with those thoughts still the Sub isn't working & cold turkey won't either. I am just screwed. If they do keep me on it for pain then will they put me at a dose & leave it? Will they titrate up as needed for pain? Or titrate it down to get me on as low as possible dose?

[jt808]

ARE U SERIOUS SHOEGIRL U WANA GET ON METHADONE FOR "THE BUZZ" I READ WHAT U WROTE IN ANOTHER POST AN SAID U WANA SWITCH FRO THE BUZZ. I CAN SEE UR REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT GETN AN STAYN CLEAN WHEN UR TALKN LIKE THAT GEEZ CMON U GOTTA DIG DEEPER THAN THAT CUZ METHADONE IS NO JOKE ITS A TERRIABLE DRUG TO TAKE UNLESS U USE IT PROPERLY WHICH BY READING UR OTHER RPOSTING U ARE NNOT SERIOUS ABOUT USING IT PROPERLY IS JUST MY OPONIO OR  MY GUESS AN IT IS THE ABSOULT WORST WORST WORST DRUG TO  W/D  FROM ITS IS BEYOND BAD TRUST ME U DONT WANT ANY PART OF METHADONE I MEAN YEA U GET A LIL BTR OF A BUZZ THAN ON SUBS BUT THAT ISNT THE POINT U ARE SUPPOSE TO QUITE THE THNKN THAT UR USING AND QUITE FOR YOU.  U NEED TO SERIOUSLY THNK ABOUT WHAT UR SAYN AND WHY U ARE GONA TRY AN SWITCH TO SUCH A POWERFUL DRUG(METHADONE) U NEED TO RETRAIN UR THOUGHT PROCESS AN FORGET THE BUZZ CUZ WE AS ADDICTS CANNOT HANDLE THAT BUZZ THTS WHY WERE IN THE SHAPE WERE IN NOW. SO CMON THINK ABOUT HOW THAT SOUNDS U SAYN THAT. WELL GOOD LUCK

[jt808]

and if i rember correctly u were the one talkn about how if u dont quite ths time ur husband an kids are gona leaveu? now dont u thnk someone who had that kinda monkey on ur back would be more worried about getn beter than worried about catching a beter "buzz" on a different pill i mean cmon now is the time to get ur head straight for u and ur FAMILY i mean if u wana swtich for the right reasons than only u really kno what is best for u but honeslty i dont thnk u gave suboxone a fair chance i mean its not by any means a miracle drug ur not gona be magically cured and feel like 100 bucks but if u work with it and try hard on the subs and firtly u need to find the proper dose so u are not havn that bad or that many cravings cuz u shopuldnt be havn as bad of cravings as u say u are if u are on the proper dose unless u are just over reacting and making it worse than it actually is but either way u need to do a lil trial an error to find what works best and what dose of subs and how an when to take em u have to work with it. and yes the dr. shoukld taper u off any drug either sub or meth but lets face it not all dr.s do most of em have no idea about the drugs or how they really affect people most are just in it to make a quick buck not all but most so just because there suppose to do one thng sure as heck wont mean they will wean u off or dispense it to u properly.

[jt808]

i mean it sounds like u wana take meth for the rest of ur life what kinda thinking is that u wouldnt wana get beter and finished really sounds stupid to me and ur askn all these Qs about how it looks good to see when u see people u kno looking drunk or stoned or on zanax while on there meth and u say that u wana do that cuz people would be ok with it since its ur prescribded medicine i mean why are u even quiting cuz u sure as he'll dont sound like u want to quite or are even tryn to give it a chance looks like ur lookn for a easy way to get what u want while making whoever happy meaning u get a buzz from the meth an u tell people ur quiting pilss an ur on a meth program so u want best of both worlds well good luck wth that cuz sounds like ur only fooling urself sorry!  i mean who in there right mind would wana be stuck in the meth program i mean it runs ur life just as if u were still using ur DOC cuz every morning u have to go to the clinic or ur sick i mean ur just trading one addiction for another makes no sense its still gona run ur life in just a different way just dont make any sense

[shoegirl01]

I guess I wasn't clear about what I was saying about the people I know on Meth, I DONT want to be like I'm drunk all day!! I have to go to work & take care of my family. That's why I was asking if that was just meth or were they taking something else too. I am on the highest dose of Sub. According to my Dr it isn't working because I still want " the buzz" I was honest with him just like I am with yall here. I have been told for years that I would be on something for pain for the rest of my life. If I hadn't started abusing I would be taking some long acting MS & something for breakthru / percs or hydros. So if that is the case what would be the difference in taking Meth everyday? My Dr agrees & said I might end up having to take something like that anyway for pain & just be monitored closely. The dr & his staff think the sub isn't working because I still want to use. They said if the recepters in my brain were full then I wouldn't feel like this. He is a highly recommended dr & he has a very good clinic so I have no reason not to trust him

[sphynxs]

Sounds like you've made up your mind already. I'm not judging you at all. Everyone's situation is different. I have chronic feet pain, and have had surgery to correct which failed. I was told I would need to be on something for the rest of my life, but I'll be honest with you..... I have an addictive personality. Eventually whatever the doc puts me on, wouldn't be enough. I know this now. I hope you are stronger than I am. Can they up the dosage of the subs? Please don't jump into meth untill you've exausted all other possibilities. Keep me informed.

John

[dominosarah]

Chasing the high is so exhausting.  I hope you get yourself into some sort of aftercare.

[SJMommy]

Can i take a very low dose of sub and get pregnant? Wondering if it is safe for the baby? Does anyone know? Is there anything to take that is safe? I really need the help to get off the perc and my hubby doesnt know and wants another baby asap..PLEASE HELP!

[pharma9]

No drug is safe while pregnant.Sometimes if the mother needs the drug to stay alive they have to take the risk.But why not clean yourself up before you get pregnant.It is not fair to the baby to feed it drugs while it is developing or anytime.The baby does not choose to take drugs and should not be put through withdrawal when born.I think every baby should be given the best care before birth and after because they did not choose to be born.
Stay with us on this forum and we will help you through withdrawals and then you can get pregnant.

[sphynxs]

Wel put.

[mr.lucky66]

If you want the buzz that's honest. I was the same way and don't think anyone should critisize you for that. Methadone may be better for you because of the combined pain and addiction history and it does give many users a buzz for a few hours in the morning. The problem is these days is that clinics give you as much as you want and the sky's the limit. That makes for a lot of over sedated looking methadonians. The other problem is the clinics. They are not great places for my vast experience with them. You have to be carefull who meet in those places and police often watch them because many clients have criminal involvment.. Sometimes methadone is the right choice but you have to weigh both sides. all the best

[stilltrying1965]

I would like to tell you meth is probibly one of the hardest drugs to come of tapering or not. Yes it has a long life span here in scotland you only get on a methadone program if you are a heroin addict most of my freinds are on methadone programs or were two are now dead i dont intend to scare you .My freind paul was 18 got 50 mls a day new years eve19 96 he got his meth took the 50 mil dosage and topped it up with 20mg of valium 1 vodka and coke 9 am new years day he was DEAD it only took the 20 mg of valium witch he was not prescribed to kill him choked on his own vomit this all happened with his g/f lying next t him she said she only heard him cough during the night but the cughing was my freind paul dieing choking on his own vomit 18 yrs old i only tell you this because if you go on a methadone program this is how dangrous this drug is if abused or you top up with some thing else yes most of my x freinds get on a meth program too stop them stealing to get money for heroin i could go tommorow and get on a meth program but choose not too as i have been addicted to meth aswell before i started useing heroin i stoped when my freind died its the worst w/ds i have ever been through i was in bed for 3 weeks fecies all over my bed i could not get to the toilet my body ached with pain i only tell you this shoegirl as i want you to make the right choice for you not the type f drug you want to be taking for a buzz  think this one through shoegirl and make the choice for what is right for you as it is so dangerous not to be taken lightly use it properly and yes it can be very helpful the methadone program here in scotland keeps a lot of my x freinds outt of jail and not have to run around looking to score H shoegirl please dont make this decision lightly think it through and if you feel its right for you then go on a program and stick to your prescribed dose and never mix it with other drugs and you should be fine best of luck too you my freind........James PS thanks for the freinds invite

[SonniQ]

I have never posted on this forus before.  I post on Hep C.  Due to pain issues that I attributed to illnesses caused by the Hep C infection I've had for 35 years I've been on pain killers for the last 18 years.  But I also had a substance abuse problem for most of my adult life so part of this was my justification for needed pain killers.  But there was also real pain involved as well.  I had nerve pain in my skin and couldn't even bear the feel of a fan on my skin.  I got tired of stretching my percosets to the end of the month before I could get another refill.  Life was a yoyo between counting hours, feeling ok and feeling bad.  On a different forum I had heard that methadone was also used for pain and I asked my Dr about and he said he'd try me on it.  From day one it gave me my life back.  No more fuzziness from the percs.  No more ups and downs.   I've b

[SonniQ]

computer glitch

I have never raised my dose in 5 years.  If I need to I'd have no qualms taking it for the rest of my life.  I have been able to get out of bed and function like a normal person.  This past year I have lowered my dose - very slowly - staying on one dose for months before I lowered it a little further.  I'm actually down to 25 ml a day now and often forget to take a dose.  When I start to yawn and my hands start to shake I realize I forgot.  Fortunately the pills dissolve very quickly into your system.

I have just spent so much of my life on this roller coaster ride that I know that getting off it has to be done carefully - and slowly - or you end up right back where you were, and then you also feel so bad about failing.  But it can be done.

Sonni

[trinity555]

Hello sweety, I just started this forum yesterday and think you are all great people. In fact I feel like an a**hole because I got in this mess 13 years ago with street heroin. At least the lot of you got addicted through no fault of your own, you were just trying to quell the pain. If I may share with you my journey through the purgitory that is opiate addiction. From 1997-2001 I used street heroin. I even drove from Florida to Philly to get it, thank God those days are far behind me. By moving to Florida I learned about Meth. At the time it was a savior, but quickly became the rope around my neck thank lasted from 200-2004. In that time period I became heavy, had little energy and only wanted to sleep all the time. Don't get me wrong if it wasn't for meth I don't know what I would have done. The problem with it is, at least for me is that I still felt like I wanted to use sometimes. Also I was up to an 80mg dose before I discovered subs. In my humble opinion the subs were better because I didn't want to do anything else. In P.A where I live meth is given at a clinic because it is highly regulated. Subs I could just take and decide on a daily basis how much was needed. They also lasted longer for me and gave me a better chance for a normal existence. Now I'm not in you position and don't have chronic bpain as you do, so may the switch will be good. I can tell you Meth withdrawl (withdrawal) is the worst thing I ever felt and I hope you don't get into this without all the facts about it. Do what you need to do but take a look at what you want to accomplish. As for going on vacation, in my area every little thing had to be regimented. This means paperwork before going anywhere or even uping your dose. Sub and Meth both suck, and in this case you have to pick the lesser of two evils in regards to what is best for you. I hope the best possible outcome for you and will say a pray for you. Good Luck!

[shoegirl01]

Thank you & sphynx, stilltryin & Others who didn't feel the need to judge. I can't help how I feel & think. Isn't that what makes me an addict...wanting the buzz & all the crazy thoughts & things you will do to get it? I am new at this part. Only 6 days on Sub. I guess I wasn't being realistic about the sub, I believed it would be a miracle & make this all go away. I just don't know what to do since everyone here is so against the meth but the dr seems to think that is what it will take. Everyone keeps asking what my goal is & I honestly don't know. Everything happened so fast. I knew I didn't have enough pills to take to my pain dr for my count & if I mess up I'm out then my husband caught me snorting the opana & kicked me out. He was tired of watching me go thru wds everymonth. He kicked me out & said I couldn't come home until I was completely off everything so I made the appt & got on the sub. Didn't really think, was in a daze. Out of my opana so even with the percs & hydro still have wds, not physical but emotional misery. I also was sick with bronchitis. I just went to work like a zombie & cried all day long & then went to my moms & stared at the walls,bawling & let her take care of me.

[sphynxs]

Seriously, listen to me. I don't judge you. I've done some shady things myself. Noone on this forum is perfect, or they wouldn't be on here. Take the good advice to heart, and take the criticism with a grain of salt. Your hubby will take you back. You've got some big decisions ahead of you. No doubt there. No matter what we say to you here, you have to do what's right for you and yours. No matter what you decide, I'll support you.

John

[mr.lucky66]

Maybe you would be better off with methadone but the clinics can be a big problem. That's why it's always better if you can get if from a pain doc but once they know you are an addict, they won't treat you and you have to go to the clinic with Ali Baba and the 40 thieves

SonniQ, you sound like you are really having a good experience with methadone and are making the most of it. You are getting it from a pain doc right? Most people know I'm a long term methadone survivor and have been off it for years. I' m know as someone who trys to help people that are getting off of it and don't like clinics but when it works, I'm for it. all the best

[GA Guy]

Recovery is a personal thing, and a personal choice. I think that addicts with chronic pain are probably in the worst position possible. You have to manage pain to insure a good quality of life, but you also have to be honest and not abuse the medication. If you anticipate being on pain meds the rest of your life, I would check into a rehab/aftercare facility for a few weeks and learn about your addiction. There are rehab programs that help addicts with chronic pain use their meds effectively. There's a fine line between use and abuse that you must not cross. You also may want to give the Sub a little more time to adjust to (as far as the addiction treatment part). If you haven't received pain relief from it, then it may not be the correct med. The pain relief only goes up to the equivalent of around 80-100mg a day or so of Oxycodone (due to the ceiling effect). So, if your daily use exceeded those amounts, then Sub may not provide adequate pain relief. Also, be careful of the advice we give on forums. Much of it is full of inaccurate statements. Sub gets a really bad rap on here, and it's usually done by people that have no experience with it, or have no idea about it's method of action. I know Suboxone very well, but I try not to give advice on Methadone because I don't have the experience with it. Just be sure to make your decision on your own research and the conversations with at least a couple of Doctors. An Addictionologist would be a great doctor to talk to as well. God bless...

[GA Guy]

Also, someone mentioned that Suboxone can't be prescribed for pain. In fact, Suboxone can be prescribed for pain by any doctor in the US. The opiate in Suboxone (buprenorphine) has been used in this country for pain for decades. It was the "go to" drug for labor pain until the epidural made it almost obsolete.

[shoegirl01]

Thank you so much for taking the time to hear my story & share yours. I guess my problem is I keep getting conflicting information. Most everyone on this forum talks about how bad the Methadone is but I actually met people at the clinic who thought it saved them & the one lady wanted the meth but went with the sub just cause she couldn't drive there everyday. I don't want to do that either. My Dr. is very good & even though I just started seeing him, I trust him. The people there were all very professional & caring & didn't make me feel like a loser which frankly is the way my pain management Dr always made me feel. Like it was my fault that I had pain. I read what others were actually RX'd for their pain & can't believe it. I truly believe that if my Dr would have really listened to me & treated me like a whole person then maybe this wouldn't have happened. I never over used when my pain was controlled. Never ran out early. For 8 years right by the book! But when I told him the opana wasn't right for me & how many I was taking he wouldn't lsiten so I did what I had to to get thru the day. Eventually, it did become about the pills. I know that I am an addict & that really *****! I seem to be having the opposite effect with the subs, I still want to use. The Dr said the Methadone will take that away. The people at the clinic said they felt sluggish for the first few days & then felt great. I guess I could have side effects from it just like anything else. Everyone says about how horrible it is to get off of it but what if I don't have side effects & no cravings & feel good........do I have to come off of it?

[gnarly_1]

Hey Girlee ...well you never have to do anything and methadone clinics are happy
to take your money every week...but they dont call it liquid handcuffs for nothing
good luck and God bless....Gnarly

[mr.lucky66]

Again, I say that methadone may be the right choice but watch out for the clinic people. They say it saved their lives, but I always cringe when I hear that. Methadone or any drug are just tools. all the best

[worried878]

I hope this post finds u doing well..and making the right choice for u
I do agree..there is a reverence associated with sub..like u r clean if u r on it...and it is a narcotic like methadone...a partial agonist but so much stronger than percs or hydro it will make ur head spin...a 100 mg hydro user and 2 mgs of sub sent me buzzin for the day....but it may not be enuf for someone who is a heavy user/shoots/snorts large quantities or uses heroin...so methadone is the choice for them as it has no ceiling effect...bioth can be abused....i abused sub//didnt use it to stop//used it when i was outta pills and since i liked it i knew better than to use it for detox...methaodne has no ceiling effect and can be abused very easily..people trying to catch a buzz on methadone often end up in the morgue//using benzos on methadone will kill peeps if enuf is taken....since methadone does not have the high nrg buzz associated withit///but strong anyway//people take it trying to get a buzz and due to tolerence they take so much they overdose and never even feel a buzz!  if it is a buzz u r after///neither would be a good choice...if u r trying to stop and want this deep inside///both could help u//people start out getting a buzz to sub or methadone...but it passes and more and more is needed...there is a point where sub use tops out///no buzz////methadone is a full agonist so not true and u will kill urself

using narcs in this amount is just really not about pain anymore for most..it is about the BUZZ...it is about relieving the depression and feeling good..narctics are a dangerous AD..not meant to be an AD in the first place...if u go to a clinic for ur methadone and do not seek other drugs///it would be hard to abuse it cos they drug test u and if u r caught with other drugs in ur system they will give u a few chances and kick u out of the program...u only get take home doses if they trust u and it takes a while....it will be for weekends first then after time peeps get to go to the clinic once a week and bring 6 doses home///due to drug testing it will be hard to abuse methadone///due to the ceiling effect of sub it is hard to abuse it too once u top out on it and get used to it...so copping a buzz is probably not gonna happen with either for long..my friend was on methadone///now has brain dmage from abusing meds outside the clinic...it is not a pretty site...these drugs were meant to be used to keep peeps off the streets and let them live a life resembing clean in many ways altho on a narcotic..safer for some...neither were made to get a buzz from when used in recovery

good luck to u..be sure u educate urself on what u r planning to do..be sure u know ur true goals and r honest with urself about why u use....and keep posting

[worried878]

as far as methadone goes..correction...people do reach a point where they can not catch a buzz off of methadone in prescribed doses..what i meant to say is methadone has no ceiling effect so the narcotic component can cause an overdose/ie stop breathing/even tho the person never feels a buzz...the effects of the narcotic in methadone can be deadly when abused

[liscamdave]

Wait a minute, lol, I need to make sure I am reading all this correctly, you want to be able to get high still without taking percs? Is this right? I don't understand. Your drs are telling you you have to come off of sub so you can get high on meth??? What dr would do that? If you are on sub and are still craving then you need therapy and aftercare. I swear to you I am only trying to help. I really don't want to see someone with a family get hooked on Methadone. Its a dangerous drug. It grabs hold of you and never lets go. The withdrawal can take months....months!.

I understand you are an addict. But I don't even see why you went on the sub in the first place. You said you had to be on pain meds forever right? Then why even bother with the Sub if you have to be on them and you still want to get high? That is my point. If you want to get clean, then that is different. I don't know, maybe I am just not understanding this thread correctly.

I wish you luck.

[dominosarah]

Im not understanding what your not understanding either!!

[Danny111]

I have an employee who was a long time heroin addict.  He got off the heroin and onto methadone.  After a few years of the methadone he began weaning himself off of it.  He told me that getting off the methadone was harder than getting off heroin.  He ended up in the hospital because he went weeks sleeping an only an hour a night and sometimes not sleeping at all.  His body couldn't take the total lack of sleep.  I watched it.  Almost had to fire him because I'd sometimes find him lying on the floor asleep during the day.  

I had another employee who was on methadone that would fall asleep while on the telephone talking to a customer.  He'd just nod off.  Had to fire that guy.  The other guy was taken away by ambulance about five months ago and hasn't come back.

Everyone has to find their own way to sobriety but I wouldn't touch methadone under any circumstances.  If you want the methadone because you still want to feel high why not just get the drugs you were already taking?  

[stilltrying1965]

Hi shoe, im Kim (stilltryings wife). I havent been on a lot recently due to the loss of our dog. I know it maybe sounds silly to some but to me its like the loss of a family member. Anyway, i felt i had to write to you as your situation sounds a bit like how i started taking drugs due to the pain but also the predicament you are in deciding about the methadone. I or anyone else cant tell you what to do but im strongly recommending you dont take the methadone. I like you had terrible pain due to chronic fatigue syndrome, fybromyalgia, arthritis. The doctors told me i couldnt possibly be suffering the pain i was telling them about, this went on for a couple of years then a so called friend introduced us to smoking heroin, told us you couldnt get addicted to it and it would work wonders for my pain, i refused at first but then eventually i took it. BIG MISTAKE. Well after a year or so of doing that and a scan and a piece of my lung removed they found out i was suffering from a very rare illness called pulmonary histiocytosis x. Thing was i had it in my lungs so as they couldnt cut out all the tumours and there is no other cure so all they can do is give me painkillers and chemo or massive amounts of steroids to try to stop them growing too quick, i chose the steroids. Anyway now they decided i was in pain so they gave me dihydrocodeine, tramadol(which they said wasnt addictive, obviously didnt know what theyr talking about) and sleeping tablets. Too late, i was also suffering from another disease by then, addiction. So for 13yrs we smoked heroin, tried to come off it countless times, did a few times but always relapsed. The dihydrocodeine didnt give me the buzz heroin did so i done the usual things we addicts do, swapped them for heroin and numerous things i certainly am not proud of to keep my habit, lied to my family, borrowed money and never paid it back, the usual stuff. But like you, i was annoyed because if they had gave me the painkillers when i needed them it would never had happened.Then i found medhelp and met some wonderful people and eventually after a couple of mishaps i am now over 200 days clean. At first i stopped all my pain meds too but i was suffering badly but a special friend here told me, just because we are addicts doesnt mean we have to suffer, so i now take the dihydrocodeine and a sleeping tablet, although i dont really sleep but i dont abuse them now. I take them properly instead of taking handfuls of them. I never told anyone about my habit, i was to ashamed but people arent stupid, they knew something was going on they just didnt know what. I tried methadone but believe me i never got a buzz from it and i still wanted to use. James went on a methadone programme but stopped it and suffered the most horrendpus w/ds i have ever seen. We have lost friends from methadone overdoses and it wasnt massive amounts they took, just a lil extra but you just stop breathing and thats it. The rest will be on it for the rest of their lives, they know they will never come off it and every 1 of them now regret big time starting it. It seeps into your bones, makes most people overweight and their whole lives revolve around getting to the chemist every morning to take it. It isnt used in our country for pain, just for opiate addiction. But now the subs are starting to be used and a couple of people i used to know  get them and after giving them a chance to work get on with their lives and say its better than methadone. Its the risk factor with methadone thats the problem hun. Im not judging you in any way at all, james and i are just worried about you thats why im writing this. Wed hate to see you go down the road that all the people we know are on, its not a nice road shoe. Why not give the subs a bit more time or try another pain med. I know your drs are saying its fine but they get paid to say that, unlike here we have the nhs so theyr quite against methadone here, most drs are switching to the subs now. Im just asking you to think about it very very carefully before you go down that road as it is a never ending road. You like me have chronic pain but we dont have to suffer coz we are addicts but honestly methadone is not really used for pain, it was brought out for opiate/heroin users. Now they know its worse thats why theyv brought out the subs. Anyway, i hope ive not bored you i just wanted to tell you my story and let you know you dont have to suffer but methadone isnt the only option. There are other options you could try. Your still thinking like an addict which is normal but you must think about your family now and not chasing that buzz, eventually nothing gives you that buzz it just makes you feel normal. Let us know how you get on, we do care about you thats why wer here. Stick around youll get good advice here, there are sme great people here who will help you in any way they can. Good luck in whatever you decide to do......Kim

[liscamdave]

I totally agree with Kim about none of us being able to tell you what to take or not to take. We are here to give advice and our own personal opinions. YOu take what you want from what we say. My point is that in your above posts you say that the drs are suggesting Meth due to the fact that you still crave the high while on Sub. So you are switching to Meth so you can obtain the pain relief you need as well as maintain a high. This to me just doesn't sound like someone who wants to quit. If you have to stay on pain killers why go for something that is probably one of the strongest? If you ever do have to come off of it, it could take months. I just don't see what you needed from your post? I don't understand what you question is really.

Anyway, good luck again.

[trinity555]

Hey hun,

You just always remeber this is your body and your life and none of us has that right to tell you what to do with it. We don't have to deal with your pain and frankly I don't know how you have put up with it as long as you have. If you still felt like using on subs then maybe methadone will be better. I can say from experience I personally still felt like using when I was on meth. Those Dr. you see need to take you seriously and put you on a pain management program that will work and stop treating you like a drug addict. You might try going on meth for a week and see how you feel before it really starts to sink in than you might have a better perspective. I'm not trying to detour you from getting meth, I just don't want you to regret it later. Blessings to you and yours.

[SonniQ]

You have such a tough road to go down.  The desire to get a buzz isn't going to go away.  Sometimes I smell drugs but I know nothing is there.  When your desire to live is greater than your need to get a buzz you'll have a chance.  If not, you're going to accidentally OD because you aren't going to remember what you took.

Methandone is used more and more for pain relief, but it only works when you want to use it correctly.  It was never meant to get high on.  It blocks the same pain receptors that the other pain killers use.  I could be wrong but it seems that most of the people here went to clinics for the liquid.  A large dose in one shot.  I don't go to a pain dr.  My  dr is an internist.  I take 5 mg pills that can be broken in half.  I take a dose 3 times a day.  I started out with 5 pills a day and now take 2 1/2 sometimes 3.  If I had to drive to a clinic every single day that would be a bummer.  It also keeps you connected to addicts, addicts that sell their dose, and many other low life condition people.  You need to be around people that are a positive influence.

All of us have to deal with the consequences of our actions, our addictions.  I'm not young anymore, but when I was - and shooting up - I managed to get Hep C.  Now I have cirrhosis of the liver in the 4th stage and my liver is shot and not working anymore.  I know that in the near future I will need a transplant.  You have to remember that your actions now will have consequences.  Think through what those actually are.  Is getting a buzz worth the destruction of your body.  I don't know how old you are, but some people feel that they can deal with the consequences or that nothing bad will happen to them - it does.  Make your choices carefully.  You have the power to keep your determinations.  You have more strength than you realize - and the support of the people here to see you win.  Good luck.  Sonni

[liscamdave]

Wow, your post almost made me cry. You sound like such a strong person. I hope you know that. My heart goes out to you and I truly only wish you the best.

Lisa

[liscamdave]

I just wanted to tell you I am sorry if I sounded like I was being condescending in my post yesterday. I really wasn't. I just didn't and still don't understand what it is you were asking the forum. Are you trying to maintain your pain levels but also trying to quit using? If you want to quit using, then losing the high goes along with it. I myself was a recreational user, so I never had pain to treat. If I ever did end up having pain, I would have been up poops creek because my Oxy doses were so high already I would have needed dilauded or morphine to take my pain away.

Anyway, my point is that if you want to live a drug free life then talk to your dr about getting the pain taken care of without narcotics. I know that is possible, just not sure what there is for it. To switch to something so strong is just not what I would do. But that is not to say its not right for you. I was just misunderstood because I thought you were trying to get off of drugs. But when you say you still want the high, that just is odd to me. You can't have both. So please be careful and wise in your choice.

I do wish you all the best.

Lisa

[shoegirl01]

No need to apologize. I don't even understand myself! Thanks for everyones advice, the one thing I do know is Meth is NOT for me!! I am so glad I had all of you to help me or I probably would have just gone with what the dr said. I guess I just wish my dr would have listened when I first started telling him that I needed adjustments to my meds. I honestly believe I wouldn't have abused if my pain had been controled. I see what others are actually prescribed for their pain & I was no where near that sometimes not even when I was abusing. He could have tried different meds. At the time I had options. What I know for sure is that both abusing my meds & living in chronic pain leads to the same misery. When my pain isn't controled I get so depressed. There were times, ling periods that I basically lived on my couch on a heating/ ice pack. Couldn't travel, couldn't even sit thru dinner or a movie, was in tears at work all day. That was one of the worst times of my life. I knew I couldn't kill myself but I would have been relieved to die. I'm not a sissy & I can stand pain but when it is relentless, day after day it wears u down. I have done everything that ever dr has ever suggested plus experimental stuff & nontraditional stuff like accupuncture, meditation, imagery, yoga, chiro, massage, tens unit , spine stim, prolotherapy & that :;):( hurts & is expensive!! No one that isn't desperate would ever do prolo. I have done PT, all the different ing. Many times. I just feel like I don't have any options. I wish that I could find a pain dr that would understand & truly tx my pain & have him monitor me closely so I don't start taking to much. I think Kim said just cause were addicts doesn't mean we have to suffer. I know that I could stop taking all the meds completely if it wasn't for the pain, I guess this sounds crazy but my opana was 15 mg ER when I crushed them I got the full dose at once & my pain was gone & I felt great why couldn't the dr just prescribe the short acting opana. I had been taking percocet since 2002. My tolerance was very high there was no way I was gonna get pain relief from 3 a day. So, I guess my answer is no I don't want to be off I want something to control the pain & I intend to go to counseling startingMonday to control the rest. Am I being realistic? Maybe nit but doesn't matter since no pain dr will see me now & my husband wouldn't allow me to take anything now anyway.

[stilltrying1965]

Well done you made the best decision. Im very proud of you. You weighed up the pros and cons and realised that methadone was not for you. Now we just need to get your pain sorted, as i said you can try some different things and see if anything helps. Nothing will ever take it away completely but just something to take the edge off. Iv done all the same things as you and they didnt work either but keep trying and stay here and keep posting. We will all help as much as possible. Iv sent you a pm anyway, speak to you soon.....Kim

[jt808]

what type of pain do u have and are trying to get treated for i couldnt find were u said that type of pain mayb i missed it but i am not sure what all your pain is from or what is wrong if u woudnt mind

[shoegirl01]

Thank you for your kind & very wise advice. U have no idea how grateful I am to have found this forum and all the wonderful people on it!

[jt808]

what is the pain that u suffer from???????????

[liscamdave]

UGH!! I am sooooo happy you have come to that choice. I really mean that. You don't need that crap sweetie. I guess I can't say I truly know what it does long term. I have tried it. I was on about 12-15 oxy 80's a day when I tried it. A friend gave it to me to help with my w.d. He said if I took it for like a week, then I would skip over w.d, boy was he wrong. lol.

Anyway, my heart goes out to you. I don't know what it is like to be in pain like that. I know I wouldn't want to either. I totally agree with you and Kim, simply because we are addicts doesn't make it ok for us to live in pain. I pray that I don't even HAVE to take pain meds. I just can't take them and not abuse. I have only need pain meds maybe about 8 times in my life. Most being teeth pain and a few others. But I abused them on my own. Its so easy its scary.

Anyway, I hope you find the relief you need. I will say prayers for you.

Lisa

[shoegirl01]

This has been hard to determine. When it all first started I went everywhere just wanting a DX & the pain to go AWAY! Initially a chiropractor told me I had laxity of the ligaments around the SI joint which caused SI joint instability. Now normally the MD's don't care what the chiropractors think but since they couldn't come up with anything else they went with that. My pain management Dr said that this creates bone on bone pain & I am lucky to get pain control from anything even narcotics but still wouldn't listen when I tried to say that my meds werent working anymore & needed to be adjusted. Actually he wasn't the one who wouldn't change anything - it was his PI but the DR hadn't documented any of that so........anyway. I had prolotherapy for it about 5-6 yrs ago. That hurt like crazy! They take these large needles & inject saline in to your ligaments to try to create scar tissue to tighten them back up. I had 5 of these TX. Even with IV valium & demerol I could still feel it & could hear myself screaming the whole time. I think they did help some but insurance doesn't cover it & now it is very expensive. My pain is deep in the right buttock with visable muscle spasms down my right leg. Right at the same spot I had undx shingles for years. I mean I had it more than I didn't have it but since it didn't present like typical shingles I thought it was just a boil & never showed anyone & never thought the 2 were related. Finally when I started seeing all of these Drs I had a big breakout & ended up with a staph infection. My DR treated me then for shingles but it was about 2 years later when I was still having chronic breakouts than another DR put me on a daily dose of Valtrex & would u believe I still have outbreaks?? The pain is always worse right before I am going to have an outbreak. I lost my insurance during Nov & Dec & couldn't affors the Valtrex & during that time I had 3 outbreaks one I ended up with cellulitis & the last one ended up spreading to the other buttock. I have insurance again & am back on my Valtrex. Then at some point I started having episodes where I literally couldn't hardly move it the morning. I would be so stiff & sore like someone had been running over me in a truck or something. There were times I couldn't pick up my baby & my husband would have to help me up & down the stairs. I don't sleep much anyway since no position is comfortable but esp sleeping on my stomach. If I ever do, I dream something is sitting on my back & the pain wakes me up, we play musical beds every night & I usually end up on the couch! So then I was DX with fibromalagia (fibromyalgia). Then I started having mid back pain, had a new MRI & it shows some degenerative disk DX. Of course I have all the good things that come with chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia, depression. So to wrap it up I guess, SI joint dysfunction, laxity in the ligamnets of the SI joint, deg. disk, fibromyalgia. Could be worse I guess but it sure feels bad enough. One kinda funny thing..........once the muscles of my r bottock were in such a spasm that it felt like a huge knot I thought it was a tumor & I was actually glad!! I was so happy to have a DX that could be proven & then I thought I could just have surg. to remove it. I ran to my Dr asap only to be told that the muscles were just that knotted up.

[shoegirl01]

Haven't posted in awhile and wanted to see how everyone is doing. I am really good! I am still taking Sub & I feel great. I have energy & am enjoying my job , family and like again. My only problem is that my pain is not going to be controled with this long term. Right now I am managing but taking war to many Alene, advil & Tylenol. I take about 4 of each at the same time several times a day. My biggest fear was that I would eventually have to be on narcotics again but with z HX of abuse no one would see me. I told this to my dr & he say he would see! I broke down crying in his office. After everything I have been thru & all th dr's I finally have someone that I can tryst & I know he really cares. As I have said before when I see what other people were being prescribed I am outraged that my pain management dr who is suppose to understan about tolerance & work with me to find what is the right thing for me & yet he did nothing to help. Now I have promise, options. I don't have to be worried or scared about the future & living with back pain. He wants me to some research about the pain pump & also this was only my second visit with him and he already let me go to a monthly RX!! I love this man. So far the best dr & person I've met. I'm a fortunant to have found him. Any one have any exp with the morphine pain pump?

[jt808]

now u wana take the morphone sounds like u are really just not willing to do this which is fione only u can kno if ur ready but u seem to care more about the pain meds than anythn else