Switch from Sub to Methadone?

[shoegirl01]

I saw a new dr today. Just started Sub last Thursday but that Dr wasn't the right one for me. I really like the new Dr & they also offer counseling - the other doc didn't. Meant with the counselor & liked her too. The thing is, this doc thinks I need to be in Meth due to the amount & the time I was using & still have chronic pain. I had a chance to speak to 3 other pt's at the clinic. 2 were on meth & 1 on Sub but had been in Meth. They all agreed the methadone was really helping them. The lady in Sub said she would prefer the meth but due to where she lived couldn't drive over everyday. She said the Sub helped but had been taking it a long time & still has cravings. I commented that it must take a lot of willpower & that I don't have that right now & she said "I don't either" gave the impression that maybe she relapses. The dr would have started me on the meth today but wanted me to try the sub 1 more week & consider the commentment of driving to the clic everyday. It would be an hour from my house & then a little over an hr to work. Clinic doesn't open until 6am & I have to be at work at 8am. Has anyone ever switched from Sub to Meth?I wouldn't really love to hear any advice. Also, how does a once a day dose last? Are u sick every morning before u get to the clinic? Can u ever go on vacation or just out of town for a few days? How long could I go without it before I would get sick? I heard the wds are hell but doesn't the dr taper u so that u want get sick? Don't some people make a life choice to stay on it forever? My doc said since u do have pain I will probably have to take something forever anyway & that Meth is better on ur brain & body. I know this is a lot but I really need help with this decision. Everyone is swaying me toward the methadone.

[jt808]

now u wana take the morphone sounds like u are really just not willing to do this which is fione only u can kno if ur ready but u seem to care more about the pain meds than anythn else

[shoegirl01]

Haven't posted in awhile and wanted to see how everyone is doing. I am really good! I am still taking Sub & I feel great. I have energy & am enjoying my job , family and like again. My only problem is that my pain is not going to be controled with this long term. Right now I am managing but taking war to many Alene, advil & Tylenol. I take about 4 of each at the same time several times a day. My biggest fear was that I would eventually have to be on narcotics again but with z HX of abuse no one would see me. I told this to my dr & he say he would see! I broke down crying in his office. After everything I have been thru & all th dr's I finally have someone that I can tryst & I know he really cares. As I have said before when I see what other people were being prescribed I am outraged that my pain management dr who is suppose to understan about tolerance & work with me to find what is the right thing for me & yet he did nothing to help. Now I have promise, options. I don't have to be worried or scared about the future & living with back pain. He wants me to some research about the pain pump & also this was only my second visit with him and he already let me go to a monthly RX!! I love this man. So far the best dr & person I've met. I'm a fortunant to have found him. Any one have any exp with the morphine pain pump?

[shoegirl01]

This has been hard to determine. When it all first started I went everywhere just wanting a DX & the pain to go AWAY! Initially a chiropractor told me I had laxity of the ligaments around the SI joint which caused SI joint instability. Now normally the MD's don't care what the chiropractors think but since they couldn't come up with anything else they went with that. My pain management Dr said that this creates bone on bone pain & I am lucky to get pain control from anything even narcotics but still wouldn't listen when I tried to say that my meds werent working anymore & needed to be adjusted. Actually he wasn't the one who wouldn't change anything - it was his PI but the DR hadn't documented any of that so........anyway. I had prolotherapy for it about 5-6 yrs ago. That hurt like crazy! They take these large needles & inject saline in to your ligaments to try to create scar tissue to tighten them back up. I had 5 of these TX. Even with IV valium & demerol I could still feel it & could hear myself screaming the whole time. I think they did help some but insurance doesn't cover it & now it is very expensive. My pain is deep in the right buttock with visable muscle spasms down my right leg. Right at the same spot I had undx shingles for years. I mean I had it more than I didn't have it but since it didn't present like typical shingles I thought it was just a boil & never showed anyone & never thought the 2 were related. Finally when I started seeing all of these Drs I had a big breakout & ended up with a staph infection. My DR treated me then for shingles but it was about 2 years later when I was still having chronic breakouts than another DR put me on a daily dose of Valtrex & would u believe I still have outbreaks?? The pain is always worse right before I am going to have an outbreak. I lost my insurance during Nov & Dec & couldn't affors the Valtrex & during that time I had 3 outbreaks one I ended up with cellulitis & the last one ended up spreading to the other buttock. I have insurance again & am back on my Valtrex. Then at some point I started having episodes where I literally couldn't hardly move it the morning. I would be so stiff & sore like someone had been running over me in a truck or something. There were times I couldn't pick up my baby & my husband would have to help me up & down the stairs. I don't sleep much anyway since no position is comfortable but esp sleeping on my stomach. If I ever do, I dream something is sitting on my back & the pain wakes me up, we play musical beds every night & I usually end up on the couch! So then I was DX with fibromalagia. Then I started having mid back pain, had a new MRI & it shows some degenerative disk DX. Of course I have all the good things that come with chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia, depression. So to wrap it up I guess, SI joint dysfunction, laxity in the ligamnets of the SI joint, deg. disk, fibromyalgia. Could be worse I guess but it sure feels bad enough. One kinda funny thing..........once the muscles of my r bottock were in such a spasm that it felt like a huge knot I thought it was a tumor & I was actually glad!! I was so happy to have a DX that could be proven & then I thought I could just have surg. to remove it. I ran to my Dr asap only to be told that the muscles were just that knotted up.

[liscamdave]

UGH!! I am sooooo happy you have come to that choice. I really mean that. You don't need that crap sweetie. I guess I can't say I truly know what it does long term. I have tried it. I was on about 12-15 oxy 80's a day when I tried it. A friend gave it to me to help with my w.d. He said if I took it for like a week, then I would skip over w.d, boy was he wrong. lol.

Anyway, my heart goes out to you. I don't know what it is like to be in pain like that. I know I wouldn't want to either. I totally agree with you and Kim, simply because we are addicts doesn't make it ok for us to live in pain. I pray that I don't even HAVE to take pain meds. I just can't take them and not abuse. I have only need pain meds maybe about 8 times in my life. Most being teeth pain and a few others. But I abused them on my own. Its so easy its scary.

Anyway, I hope you find the relief you need. I will say prayers for you.

Lisa

[jt808]

what is the pain that u suffer from???????????

[shoegirl01]

Thank you for your kind & very wise advice. U have no idea how grateful I am to have found this forum and all the wonderful people on it!

[jt808]

what type of pain do u have and are trying to get treated for i couldnt find were u said that type of pain mayb i missed it but i am not sure what all your pain is from or what is wrong if u woudnt mind

[stilltrying1965]

Well done you made the best decision. Im very proud of you. You weighed up the pros and cons and realised that methadone was not for you. Now we just need to get your pain sorted, as i said you can try some different things and see if anything helps. Nothing will ever take it away completely but just something to take the edge off. Iv done all the same things as you and they didnt work either but keep trying and stay here and keep posting. We will all help as much as possible. Iv sent you a pm anyway, speak to you soon.....Kim

[shoegirl01]

No need to apologize. I don't even understand myself! Thanks for everyones advice, the one thing I do know is Meth is NOT for me!! I am so glad I had all of you to help me or I probably would have just gone with what the dr said. I guess I just wish my dr would have listened when I first started telling him that I needed adjustments to my meds. I honestly believe I wouldn't have abused if my pain had been controled. I see what others are actually prescribed for their pain & I was no where near that sometimes not even when I was abusing. He could have tried different meds. At the time I had options. What I know for sure is that both abusing my meds & living in chronic pain leads to the same misery. When my pain isn't controled I get so depressed. There were times, ling periods that I basically lived on my couch on a heating/ ice pack. Couldn't travel, couldn't even sit thru dinner or a movie, was in tears at work all day. That was one of the worst times of my life. I knew I couldn't kill myself but I would have been relieved to die. I'm not a sissy & I can stand pain but when it is relentless, day after day it wears u down. I have done everything that ever dr has ever suggested plus experimental stuff & nontraditional stuff like accupuncture, meditation, imagery, yoga, chiro, massage, tens unit , spine stim, prolotherapy & that :;):( hurts & is expensive!! No one that isn't desperate would ever do prolo. I have done PT, all the different ing. Many times. I just feel like I don't have any options. I wish that I could find a pain dr that would understand & truly tx my pain & have him monitor me closely so I don't start taking to much. I think Kim said just cause were addicts doesn't mean we have to suffer. I know that I could stop taking all the meds completely if it wasn't for the pain, I guess this sounds crazy but my opana was 15 mg ER when I crushed them I got the full dose at once & my pain was gone & I felt great why couldn't the dr just prescribe the short acting opana. I had been taking percocet since 2002. My tolerance was very high there was no way I was gonna get pain relief from 3 a day. So, I guess my answer is no I don't want to be off I want something to control the pain & I intend to go to counseling startingMonday to control the rest. Am I being realistic? Maybe nit but doesn't matter since no pain dr will see me now & my husband wouldn't allow me to take anything now anyway.

[liscamdave]

I just wanted to tell you I am sorry if I sounded like I was being condescending in my post yesterday. I really wasn't. I just didn't and still don't understand what it is you were asking the forum. Are you trying to maintain your pain levels but also trying to quit using? If you want to quit using, then losing the high goes along with it. I myself was a recreational user, so I never had pain to treat. If I ever did end up having pain, I would have been up poops creek because my Oxy doses were so high already I would have needed dilauded or morphine to take my pain away.

Anyway, my point is that if you want to live a drug free life then talk to your dr about getting the pain taken care of without narcotics. I know that is possible, just not sure what there is for it. To switch to something so strong is just not what I would do. But that is not to say its not right for you. I was just misunderstood because I thought you were trying to get off of drugs. But when you say you still want the high, that just is odd to me. You can't have both. So please be careful and wise in your choice.

I do wish you all the best.

Lisa

[liscamdave]

Wow, your post almost made me cry. You sound like such a strong person. I hope you know that. My heart goes out to you and I truly only wish you the best.

Lisa

[SonniQ]

You have such a tough road to go down.  The desire to get a buzz isn't going to go away.  Sometimes I smell drugs but I know nothing is there.  When your desire to live is greater than your need to get a buzz you'll have a chance.  If not, you're going to accidentally OD because you aren't going to remember what you took.

Methandone is used more and more for pain relief, but it only works when you want to use it correctly.  It was never meant to get high on.  It blocks the same pain receptors that the other pain killers use.  I could be wrong but it seems that most of the people here went to clinics for the liquid.  A large dose in one shot.  I don't go to a pain dr.  My  dr is an internist.  I take 5 mg pills that can be broken in half.  I take a dose 3 times a day.  I started out with 5 pills a day and now take 2 1/2 sometimes 3.  If I had to drive to a clinic every single day that would be a bummer.  It also keeps you connected to addicts, addicts that sell their dose, and many other low life condition people.  You need to be around people that are a positive influence.

All of us have to deal with the consequences of our actions, our addictions.  I'm not young anymore, but when I was - and shooting up - I managed to get Hep C.  Now I have cirrhosis of the liver in the 4th stage and my liver is shot and not working anymore.  I know that in the near future I will need a transplant.  You have to remember that your actions now will have consequences.  Think through what those actually are.  Is getting a buzz worth the destruction of your body.  I don't know how old you are, but some people feel that they can deal with the consequences or that nothing bad will happen to them - it does.  Make your choices carefully.  You have the power to keep your determinations.  You have more strength than you realize - and the support of the people here to see you win.  Good luck.  Sonni

[trinity555]

Hey hun,

You just always remeber this is your body and your life and none of us has that right to tell you what to do with it. We don't have to deal with your pain and frankly I don't know how you have put up with it as long as you have. If you still felt like using on subs then maybe methadone will be better. I can say from experience I personally still felt like using when I was on meth. Those Dr. you see need to take you seriously and put you on a pain management program that will work and stop treating you like a drug addict. You might try going on meth for a week and see how you feel before it really starts to sink in than you might have a better perspective. I'm not trying to detour you from getting meth, I just don't want you to regret it later. Blessings to you and yours.

[liscamdave]

I totally agree with Kim about none of us being able to tell you what to take or not to take. We are here to give advice and our own personal opinions. YOu take what you want from what we say. My point is that in your above posts you say that the drs are suggesting Meth due to the fact that you still crave the high while on Sub. So you are switching to Meth so you can obtain the pain relief you need as well as maintain a high. This to me just doesn't sound like someone who wants to quit. If you have to stay on pain killers why go for something that is probably one of the strongest? If you ever do have to come off of it, it could take months. I just don't see what you needed from your post? I don't understand what you question is really.

Anyway, good luck again.

[stilltrying1965]

Hi shoe, im Kim (stilltryings wife). I havent been on a lot recently due to the loss of our dog. I know it maybe sounds silly to some but to me its like the loss of a family member. Anyway, i felt i had to write to you as your situation sounds a bit like how i started taking drugs due to the pain but also the predicament you are in deciding about the methadone. I or anyone else cant tell you what to do but im strongly recommending you dont take the methadone. I like you had terrible pain due to chronic fatigue syndrome, fybromyalgia, arthritis. The doctors told me i couldnt possibly be suffering the pain i was telling them about, this went on for a couple of years then a so called friend introduced us to smoking heroin, told us you couldnt get addicted to it and it would work wonders for my pain, i refused at first but then eventually i took it. BIG MISTAKE. Well after a year or so of doing that and a scan and a piece of my lung removed they found out i was suffering from a very rare illness called pulmonary histiocytosis x. Thing was i had it in my lungs so as they couldnt cut out all the tumours and there is no other cure so all they can do is give me painkillers and chemo or massive amounts of steroids to try to stop them growing too quick, i chose the steroids. Anyway now they decided i was in pain so they gave me dihydrocodeine, tramadol(which they said wasnt addictive, obviously didnt know what theyr talking about) and sleeping tablets. Too late, i was also suffering from another disease by then, addiction. So for 13yrs we smoked heroin, tried to come off it countless times, did a few times but always relapsed. The dihydrocodeine didnt give me the buzz heroin did so i done the usual things we addicts do, swapped them for heroin and numerous things i certainly am not proud of to keep my habit, lied to my family, borrowed money and never paid it back, the usual stuff. But like you, i was annoyed because if they had gave me the painkillers when i needed them it would never had happened.Then i found medhelp and met some wonderful people and eventually after a couple of mishaps i am now over 200 days clean. At first i stopped all my pain meds too but i was suffering badly but a special friend here told me, just because we are addicts doesnt mean we have to suffer, so i now take the dihydrocodeine and a sleeping tablet, although i dont really sleep but i dont abuse them now. I take them properly instead of taking handfuls of them. I never told anyone about my habit, i was to ashamed but people arent stupid, they knew something was going on they just didnt know what. I tried methadone but believe me i never got a buzz from it and i still wanted to use. James went on a methadone programme but stopped it and suffered the most horrendpus w/ds i have ever seen. We have lost friends from methadone overdoses and it wasnt massive amounts they took, just a lil extra but you just stop breathing and thats it. The rest will be on it for the rest of their lives, they know they will never come off it and every 1 of them now regret big time starting it. It seeps into your bones, makes most people overweight and their whole lives revolve around getting to the chemist every morning to take it. It isnt used in our country for pain, just for opiate addiction. But now the subs are starting to be used and a couple of people i used to know  get them and after giving them a chance to work get on with their lives and say its better than methadone. Its the risk factor with methadone thats the problem hun. Im not judging you in any way at all, james and i are just worried about you thats why im writing this. Wed hate to see you go down the road that all the people we know are on, its not a nice road shoe. Why not give the subs a bit more time or try another pain med. I know your drs are saying its fine but they get paid to say that, unlike here we have the nhs so theyr quite against methadone here, most drs are switching to the subs now. Im just asking you to think about it very very carefully before you go down that road as it is a never ending road. You like me have chronic pain but we dont have to suffer coz we are addicts but honestly methadone is not really used for pain, it was brought out for opiate/heroin users. Now they know its worse thats why theyv brought out the subs. Anyway, i hope ive not bored you i just wanted to tell you my story and let you know you dont have to suffer but methadone isnt the only option. There are other options you could try. Your still thinking like an addict which is normal but you must think about your family now and not chasing that buzz, eventually nothing gives you that buzz it just makes you feel normal. Let us know how you get on, we do care about you thats why wer here. Stick around youll get good advice here, there are sme great people here who will help you in any way they can. Good luck in whatever you decide to do......Kim

[Danny111]

I have an employee who was a long time heroin addict.  He got off the heroin and onto methadone.  After a few years of the methadone he began weaning himself off of it.  He told me that getting off the methadone was harder than getting off heroin.  He ended up in the hospital because he went weeks sleeping an only an hour a night and sometimes not sleeping at all.  His body couldn't take the total lack of sleep.  I watched it.  Almost had to fire him because I'd sometimes find him lying on the floor asleep during the day.  

I had another employee who was on methadone that would fall asleep while on the telephone talking to a customer.  He'd just nod off.  Had to fire that guy.  The other guy was taken away by ambulance about five months ago and hasn't come back.

Everyone has to find their own way to sobriety but I wouldn't touch methadone under any circumstances.  If you want the methadone because you still want to feel high why not just get the drugs you were already taking?  

[dominosarah]

Im not understanding what your not understanding either!!

[liscamdave]

Wait a minute, lol, I need to make sure I am reading all this correctly, you want to be able to get high still without taking percs? Is this right? I don't understand. Your drs are telling you you have to come off of sub so you can get high on meth??? What dr would do that? If you are on sub and are still craving then you need therapy and aftercare. I swear to you I am only trying to help. I really don't want to see someone with a family get hooked on Methadone. Its a dangerous drug. It grabs hold of you and never lets go. The withdrawal can take months....months!.

I understand you are an addict. But I don't even see why you went on the sub in the first place. You said you had to be on pain meds forever right? Then why even bother with the Sub if you have to be on them and you still want to get high? That is my point. If you want to get clean, then that is different. I don't know, maybe I am just not understanding this thread correctly.

I wish you luck.

[worried878]

as far as methadone goes..correction...people do reach a point where they can not catch a buzz off of methadone in prescribed doses..what i meant to say is methadone has no ceiling effect so the narcotic component can cause an overdose/ie stop breathing/even tho the person never feels a buzz...the effects of the narcotic in methadone can be deadly when abused

[worried878]

I hope this post finds u doing well..and making the right choice for u
I do agree..there is a reverence associated with sub..like u r clean if u r on it...and it is a narcotic like methadone...a partial agonist but so much stronger than percs or hydro it will make ur head spin...a 100 mg hydro user and 2 mgs of sub sent me buzzin for the day....but it may not be enuf for someone who is a heavy user/shoots/snorts large quantities or uses heroin...so methadone is the choice for them as it has no ceiling effect...bioth can be abused....i abused sub//didnt use it to stop//used it when i was outta pills and since i liked it i knew better than to use it for detox...methaodne has no ceiling effect and can be abused very easily..people trying to catch a buzz on methadone often end up in the morgue//using benzos on methadone will kill peeps if enuf is taken....since methadone does not have the high nrg buzz associated withit///but strong anyway//people take it trying to get a buzz and due to tolerence they take so much they overdose and never even feel a buzz!  if it is a buzz u r after///neither would be a good choice...if u r trying to stop and want this deep inside///both could help u//people start out getting a buzz to sub or methadone...but it passes and more and more is needed...there is a point where sub use tops out///no buzz////methadone is a full agonist so not true and u will kill urself

using narcs in this amount is just really not about pain anymore for most..it is about the BUZZ...it is about relieving the depression and feeling good..narctics are a dangerous AD..not meant to be an AD in the first place...if u go to a clinic for ur methadone and do not seek other drugs///it would be hard to abuse it cos they drug test u and if u r caught with other drugs in ur system they will give u a few chances and kick u out of the program...u only get take home doses if they trust u and it takes a while....it will be for weekends first then after time peeps get to go to the clinic once a week and bring 6 doses home///due to drug testing it will be hard to abuse methadone///due to the ceiling effect of sub it is hard to abuse it too once u top out on it and get used to it...so copping a buzz is probably not gonna happen with either for long..my friend was on methadone///now has brain dmage from abusing meds outside the clinic...it is not a pretty site...these drugs were meant to be used to keep peeps off the streets and let them live a life resembing clean in many ways altho on a narcotic..safer for some...neither were made to get a buzz from when used in recovery

good luck to u..be sure u educate urself on what u r planning to do..be sure u know ur true goals and r honest with urself about why u use....and keep posting

[mr.lucky66]

Again, I say that methadone may be the right choice but watch out for the clinic people. They say it saved their lives, but I always cringe when I hear that. Methadone or any drug are just tools. all the best

[gnarly_1]

Hey Girlee ...well you never have to do anything and methadone clinics are happy
to take your money every week...but they dont call it liquid handcuffs for nothing
good luck and God bless....Gnarly

[shoegirl01]

Thank you so much for taking the time to hear my story & share yours. I guess my problem is I keep getting conflicting information. Most everyone on this forum talks about how bad the Methadone is but I actually met people at the clinic who thought it saved them & the one lady wanted the meth but went with the sub just cause she couldn't drive there everyday. I don't want to do that either. My Dr. is very good & even though I just started seeing him, I trust him. The people there were all very professional & caring & didn't make me feel like a loser which frankly is the way my pain management Dr always made me feel. Like it was my fault that I had pain. I read what others were actually RX'd for their pain & can't believe it. I truly believe that if my Dr would have really listened to me & treated me like a whole person then maybe this wouldn't have happened. I never over used when my pain was controlled. Never ran out early. For 8 years right by the book! But when I told him the opana wasn't right for me & how many I was taking he wouldn't lsiten so I did what I had to to get thru the day. Eventually, it did become about the pills. I know that I am an addict & that really *****! I seem to be having the opposite effect with the subs, I still want to use. The Dr said the Methadone will take that away. The people at the clinic said they felt sluggish for the first few days & then felt great. I guess I could have side effects from it just like anything else. Everyone says about how horrible it is to get off of it but what if I don't have side effects & no cravings & feel good........do I have to come off of it?

[GA Guy]

Also, someone mentioned that Suboxone can't be prescribed for pain. In fact, Suboxone can be prescribed for pain by any doctor in the US. The opiate in Suboxone (buprenorphine) has been used in this country for pain for decades. It was the "go to" drug for labor pain until the epidural made it almost obsolete.