Terrified to start detox

[cutie pie]

I have been addicted to vicodin and norco for 4 years, i didnt know untill the first time i ran low that i would have withdrawals.I have to take 8 to 10 pills a day just to not get the withdrawal symptoms.I'm 58 years old. do you think i should go as an in patient to try to detox. How long untill i will feel normal again. Please help, i'm terrified. Thank you Lois

[traveler]

Ever heard someone say "If I can quit, anyone can."..? Well, that's pretty much how I feel. I've always been one of those people that seemed to get addicted to stuff real easy, and could always come up with all these great reasons why I didn't really need to stop.  Or if I actually tried, it only lasted a very few days at best.

Well, the vicodin got out of control a long, long time ago.  From an old injury, combined with arthritis, and a prescription-friendly HMO doctor, I started with the vic 5/500s - went to the 7/750s (ES) and occasional Norco - Lortab/Lorcet.  But mainly vic ES.  Usually 6 or more a day, and for well over 5 years.

Living from refill to refill, sometimes coming up short, finding other sources and basically planning my life around vicodin and my refills.  Have to go somewhere..?  Make sure to bring enough vic.  Busy day at work? - bring some extra. Have to work on the car, grab a few - might as well enjoy it.  On the road a week or so, make sure I know where I can get a refill - (sound familiar..??)

Hey listen, I finally just got sick of the ball and chain effect, and I knew this was getting worse all the time (and I'm sure you know the part about the sex drive).  This **** just had to stop. I knew this for quite a while, too.

If you're trying to get away from vicodin, please consider some of what I have found out.  Most important - you CAN do it, really (yes, YOU)..!  One thing that really helped me a LOT was this web site, reading and seeing that others were experiencing the same thing I was.  It gave me some idea what to expect and I saw what worked for them.  I really thank those folks for that.

My first big step was to talk to Dr. Feelgood about this.  First, in case I needed medical help, and second (this was hard) it brought my supply to an end.  I don't think you can actually quit if you still have it laying around.

So I gradually tapered off, by about 25% every few days, until I was down to 1/2 AM and 1/2 PM.  Stayed there for a few days... then quit.  I was surprised that even taking so little, the withdrawals still hit pretty strong, but the worst was over after about 4 days or so.

The first few days were pretty bad, and I still had to go to work. That made it real tough. Man, I was reading stuff on message boards, religious sites, looking anywhere I could to find some encouragement or strength. Something to hang on to.

I still pretty much felt like **** the 2nd week, but not anywhere near like the 1st.  It was just tolerable, but that was all.  By the start of week 3, all the effects from withdrawal were gone, but it was bothering me a lot that I just could not get myself motivated to do or enjoy anything, and I was starting to think maybe I never would.  I think that during this phase, I was starting to feel like maybe I shouldn't have quit if this is what life is going to always be like.  Kind of sucked.

That empty feeling, and the total lack of motivation stuck with me, but faded very gradually over the next couple of weeks.  I'm now at week 6, and can you believe this - I feel pretty damn good.  I wake up in the morning (yes, I can sleep now), get my coffee, and go on about my day feeling pretty good about myself, and finally feeling like I enjoy life.  Amazing..!!  And it keeps getting better.  I don't even think about that **** anymore.  In fact, honestly, if I had a bottle of vicodin in front of me now, I'd flush it dowm the toilet (no, I wouldn't mail it to you - LoL).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have to be patient, and just make yourself stay with it. All the bad **** seems to come in phases, but it does get better - gradually - but the bad eventually faded away.  It will for you, too.

So after all is said and done, was it worth it..??  Yes. God yes it was.  I'm free - finally.  I'm starting to really enjoy living again, and I can't tell you how much my family appreciates this, too.

Wow this got long. Sorry.  I'll post later about what over-the-counter meds I used to deal with such things as not being able to sleep, the runs, lack of energy, etc.

But again, my sincere thanks to those who shared their experiences here.  You helped me more than you'll ever know.  I felt like maybe my experience 'might' just help someone else.

[cutie pie]

Dear Friday Traveler, Thank you so much for your reply. everything you said is so on target. I hate this feeling of vicodin taking over my life. Your reply has made me feel like there is hope. Bless your heart for taking the time to give me some reassurance that i can get through this. forever grateful. Lois

[tom to Cutie Pie]

while I agree with Traveler's comments, they weight heavily on the anecdotal side (and entertainingly so), but there are a few specifics you need to know which I'm not sure Traveller made clear. With compliments to Traveller, allow me to add a "canned" response, sent to many in your situation, which saves me a lot of fresh typing a ensures that I cover what needs to be covered.

You're age is somewhat of a concern to me when contemplating the cold turkey approach. While you're free to follow the advice that follows, in-patient detox would be the safest and, assuming you screen the place you go for detox first (to make sure they're not cold turkey fanatics -- there are such places), probably the best choice.

But read this first, in the event you decide to go it solo:

I'm not a doctor but someone who will be even more useful to you -- an rx opiate addict of thirty years and counting. I've copped, used and cold turkey'd them all and I can and will tell you more than the doctor will about what's coming.

I assume you've tried tapering with the usual results - harder than hell, isn't it?


The great good news, my friend, is that you're barely using above the prescribed dosages and frequency of those mythical creatures know as "normies" in AA/NA meetings. Lucky *******! I once kicked a 75 Vicodin per day habit (yes, I mean seventy-five pills per day) lying on the concrete floor of the Orange County jail intake unit. Just thought I'd add a little perspective for whatever it's worth.

Here's the deal. You're withdrawal symptoms will start making themselves known in about 10 to 12 hours. You'll ache, especially in the thigh muscles but, really, you'll start hurting everywhere. You'll feel like you just can't concentrate or sit still. You'll start feeling some anxiety - just an overall feeling of blunted panic, I guess you could say. Now - very important - before you allow yourself to get into withdrawal, go the supermarket and buy a 24-pill supply of brand-name Imodium (immodium) anti-diarrhea tabs. Get the brand name. They're more potent, no matter what anyone says. Keep them close to you. At the first twinge of the runs, even just a hint or a growling sound from your diaphragm area - take two Imodium (immodium) at once. Just chuck 'em. Don't wait til you're drizzling green goo into the bowel, which, by the way, will burn your ass something awful. So, anyway, use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively. If the feeling comes back, hit it with two more - no half measures. Use the full dose each time you use them.

Do you have access to some valium or Xanax or Librium or Klonopin? These are benzos that will help immensely with the anxiety. If you've got them. I recommend using a strong, sleep-inducing dose the first day of your withdrawal and then tapering the dose down gradually to nothing in about 4 days - that's about how long your withdrawal will be upon you. Of course, with some, it lasts even longer. Anyway, if you don't have any Valium, go to the health food store and buy some Valerian Root extract pills. They have a distinctly valium-like calming effect that will let you get some sleep.

Now, the muscle aches will get worse as you go into day two. If you have a Jacuzzi, live in the thing! Or if not, take lots of hot baths to soak those leg muscles as often  as possible. It's about the only thing that helps, but it's very effective and will let you get to where you can relax on the couch or bed and watch some good flicks. Have a hot bath or Jacuzzi revved up all the time and use it every time those muscle aches come back. They're a real *****, believe me, but will subside in about four days or say.

Need I say don't -DON'T- try to self medicate your way around withdrawal with alcohol or sleeping pills like seconol or phenobarb. Forget alcohol altogether. That means beers, too. Alcohol will undue your whole detox if you let it.

Take lots of short walks. Nothing strenuous, just get out of the house and walk and think. Take a Walkman with you with some energizer tunes or even some mellow stuff. Preferably not the music you got high too. It acts too much like a trigger.

Now, if you can, and I'm hoping you can, schedule this detox so that at least the first few days are on a weekend. Retire from the world for a few days. It's best that way for you and the people around you.

Eat all you want, whatever suits your fancy. If you're using the Valiums or one of those other benzos I mentioned, they'll make you eat like a pig. This is good. Also, take some good vitamins every day. Be aggressive about it. Also, while at the health food store, get some Milk Thistle capsules. The liver is one of the few organs in the human body that, with a little cooperation from you, will repair itself. See, all the Tylenol in the Lortabs has already taken a toll that needs to be addressed if you're to fully recover. The Milk Thistle will help this healing process along.

Now, what am I forgetting … Oh yeah, and it's a big Oh yeah - cravings, that is, the psychological compulsion telling you to hell with this detox and just chuck a Lortab and everything will be cool again. The Valiam or Xanax or Valerian Root is good for minimizing the cravings. So is exercise, especially aerobic exercise like jogging, bikings, step mastering, fast walks, lap swimming. These exercises encourage your brain to produce endorphins, which are the substances that your brain is thinking the hydrocodone in your lortab are.

A large part of withdrawal stems from the fact that your brain has stopped making natural endorphins because it's noticed that you've found an outside source for them. The brain is constantly trying to keep it's "brain soup" in balance and will do things like stop making endorphins in order to compensate for all these ersatz endorphins you're giving it. Trouble is, the brain can't tell the difference. Then, suddenly, you cut off it's source for these endorphins and the reaction to not having them is what withdrawal is all about. It will take time for your brain to start making its own again, but it will. The human brain is the coolest organic "device" god has thought of  - so far, anyway. Trust it. You might feel a little listless and clumsy for a while, but it will pass and you'll be OK.

Well, that's it. Simple, really. "I've done it a thousand times," as the smoker said.

Good luck, Cutie Pie, but do consider the in-hospital detox route. Just make sure they bring you down with something comfortable like lots of Valium or buprenorphin, etc. ***Stay away from the places that won't tell you what they're going to do for you. And, remember, you're not committed, you can walk out anytime you think you've been assigned to Dr. De Sade and aren't having your needs addressed.

Good luck.

It won't be fun.

But as Hemingway tells us, the sun also rises. And it will rise for you one morning and you'll feel reborn. And you will be.

Someday, I hope to wake to such a morning. It hasn't happened for me yet. But I help where and when I can so that my own folly and suffering, in the final reckoning, will not have happened for nothing.

tom

[Traveler to Cutie Pie]

Well, sounds like Tom has a pretty good handle on the meds and some of the other ideas to help you, and I agree very much about the in-patient detox if that's an option you have.  If not, you should be able to gain enough info from what's been posted to get you through this.

I would like to say again, though... be sure to talk with your Dr. about this before you start.  Tom said to plan it so your first couple of days are a weekend.  VERY good suggestion.  I wish like hell I could have, but circumstances didn't allow.

Yep, Immodium AD is a must.  I tried meds that were available to me at the time (stuff at home) to get thru the first few days.  Had some Paxil 40 Mg.  Good Lord was that ever a BIG mistake.  Well, I learned.  Arthritis strength Ecotrin or Excedrin.  One thing, maybe just me, I could barely force myself to eat for the first 3 days.  Food tasted very bland, and could only eat a few bites.  But that passed.

Cutie, I'm pretty close to your age.  It may well be a factor, but certainly won't stop you.  I don't know about any other medical issues you may have, but please...please remember... when the bad stuff starts - IT WILL PASS...!!  It won't stay bad all that long. You WILL beat this thing.  Keep reminding yourself.  I had to, and it's over now. It will be for you, too.

I wouldn't touch that **** with a ten foot pole now.  

Let us know how you're doing.  

[Ken]

Hi Lois,
       I too was addicted to pain pills,taking sometimes in excess of 40 per day.Eight days ago,I stopped COLD.The first four days were a horror with insomnia and a feeling of utter hopelessness.Each day afterward has gotten increasingly better to where I am already able to function almost normally.I will not lie to you,it is the hardest thing I ever have had to do,but it is important to remember thet it IS worth it and that you are NOT alone.God bless you.

[cutie pie]

Tom, thank you very much for taking the time to help me. You just can't imagine how much i appreciate it. Just thinking that someone i don't even know has taken the time to try to help me makes me so emotiomal.Probably the only reason i dont take more pills per day than i do is It makes me feel so sick if i take to many in a short period.I should say that probably is a blessing, otherwise i would probably be eating them like popcorn.Unfortunetly i just found out today i have to have a hand surgery, which is scheduled for Feb. 21st. And you know what that means, why try to wean at this time. Thank you again for your great advise.

[cutie pie]

To Traveler, thanks again for taking the time to respond to me. I will need all the encouragement and help i can get. Just knowing that it will get better makes me have some hope. I haven't been reading alot of success stories with getting off this stuff and going back to normal again. I was getting more terrified as i read others stories. I found out today i have to have a surgery on my hand which is scheduled for Feb. 21st, so there's no sence in trying to detox just yet. I'm so happy for your success and thanks again, Lois

[cutie pie]

Hi Ken, thank you so much for sharing your story. Just knowing there are success stories out there help me alot. My good thoughts are with you and keep up the good work. thanks again, Lois

[PS >>>>Annie]

...I've just been put on Vicodin ES 7.5.  I take a max of 3 a day, and I'm already worried, Esp. because of the Tylenol.  I started having stabbing pains below my rib cage on the right, also in the back,although,  I read somewhere that you can not feel pain in the liver.  Is Norco safer than Vicodin?  I thought I read in one of these threads that it has less acetaminophen.  Should I ask my Doctor to switch...Is it more addictive though??
I guess I shouldnt worry, cause you guys have taken way more per day, and seem to be ok.  I guess I should change my screen name to "paranoid."  lol  Help!

[cutie pie]

Hi Annie, norco is just as addictive as vicodin, in fact it's even stronger  than vicodin at least that is the way i feel. Since your not taking that much right now,  if at all possible the best advise i can give you is to don't take either one of them. I had no idea that i was becoming so dependant on these things. It will esculate automatically to the point where all you seem to think about is do i have enough pills to get me through till i can get another rx.It's a nightmare. I feel like it controls my life both mentally and physically. I don't wish anyone to feel as scared as i feel  knowing i have to go through detox, and not knowing what all to expect as far as how i'm going to feel both mentally and physically and for how long. I will keep you posted. Lois

[PS >>>>Annie]

Thanks for the advice, but i'm afraid I have no choice.  If you read some of my post below, starting w/ 1/26 under Tramadol (the 1st time I posted here) you will see some of the problems I'm dealing w/.  I access this site to stay informed and I've learned sooo much here.  You will also gather from my story that I'm scared to death of addiction and what it does.  I sympathize w/ you, I do.
Its terrible.  Esp. when the world just continues on, and your expected to just keep going.  My pain is getting worse.  It hurts to walk, hurts to sit, and it hurts stand.  I've been posting here, cause it helps to get this off my chest.  I dont feel like I can talk to anybody about the pain...they just dont understand.  I am one of the many who suffered for years, but was not receiving, nor was I comfortable talking about pain medicine w/ physicians, because of the stigma attached to it. No other medications work.  I just may have to live w/ all of this for the rest of my life.  Thanks and My prayers are w/ you!
annie

[cutie pie]

To Annie, I looked back on your post, and am so sorry to hear about your problem. Your dealing with alot more than alot of us.I got started on this nightmare cycle when i had back surgery.I knew the pills were habbit forming, to me at that time habbit forming had a totally different meaning than addicting. I really didnt know i would have physical and mental symtoms when trying to get off this drug untill the first time i ran low and had to cut back, i was terrified of the way i felt. Having people like you to talk to is going to be a big help to me when it's time for me to start detox.Thank you Lois

[tom to Maryanne]

please let me know that you are all right by leaving a comment here or at an address I may have shared with you. I am solely interested in your safety and well being. A simple "I'm OK will suffice."

[tom to all my friends on the board]

In the absence of any other immediate help, I have designed a 13-day tapering schedule for myself - this includes Darvon and Xanax. It starts tomorrow, Sunday, and I know I'm going to need all the encouragement I can get from all of you. I hope I can count on some of you when the going gets rough. I'll need all the discipline and focus I can muster. I know all my demons will be working night and day to get me to abandon the plan. Anyone who wants to see the taper schedule table can write to me at:
***@****

All comments are welcome, but I am satisfied that my body will tolerate it and I am not putting myself in any danger. It's actually a rather slow taper, anyway.

To interpret it: each cell next to the name of the drug has a number which represents the dosage. There are no exact times specified, rather it represents the "spread" of doses covering wakeup to bed time. The black cells represent that day's total intake. Blank cells means no dose. .5 means a pill split in half.

The quantities in the first few days might alarm you, but keep in mind that I have a thirty-year-built tolerance and the quantities shown in the first few days are the quantities I have been using for quite some time.

All I really ask is your moral support to help me see it through.

Thanks in advance to all.

Peace.

P.S. Maryanne, please end your inexplicable silence and just let me know you haven't relapsed. Please respond at least on the forum. I merely want to know that you're OK.!

[PS >>>>Annie]

I have no doubt, you will succeed!  Very well thought out plan and much determination.  We will be pulling for you.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I just read your post about Vicodin and your concern about your liver.  I'm not going to get technical here but Tylenol is very hard on your liver.  I have advanced liver disease and can tell you that it is not painless.  Many of us have pain in the area that you do.  If I were you, I'd have a liver function test done.  If you have had a history of alcohol abuse, definately have it done!  

I was on Lorcet for four months(stronger than Vicodin)and had a number of problems related to the Tylenol content.  Pains in the right upper quadrant was one of them.  I also gained 40 pounds due to water retention.  I've been off them for 14 days now am feeling much better.  Vicodin is probably a very good painkilling drug for the short haul, but in the long run can ruin your health!  Just my opinion.  J.B.

[Tara to Tom]

Hi Tom,

That is great news, you are taking a very big step and I'm sure you can do whatever you set your mind to.   All of your knowledge and determination is sure to come in handy at a time like this.

You have been through quite a bit lately and this will definately be a positive change for you and your family.  I have complete faith in you and I am sure everyone on this forum will be here for any support and encouragement you may need, as you have been here for all of us.

Good luck Tom, I am extremely happy for you!

Take Care,

Tara

[cutie pie]

To Tom, I will be rooting for you tomorrow and everyday. i wish you the best of luck. Please keep us informed of everything your feeling and going through. So i will know what i'm going to be facing when i actually start detoxing. Good luck. Lois

[tom to cutie pie, tara and Annie]

thanks for being there for me.

[tom to Cutie Pie]

since you asked me to tell you how I'm feeling, perhaps you can interpet this for me:

on the Lortab thread, somone, unsigned of course, posted this to me:

"...Do you have family??"


It's bothered me all night for some reason. The double ?? seemed intentionally derisive. Am I making enemies on this site rather than friends when I try to say what's really going on inside of me? Are they saying they're tired of my posts and would rather I asked for support from my family than bother them with any questions or concernes? Perhaps I'm on this forum too often and they're emplying I've got no where else to go. I wish they had replied to my answer and had the courage to leave a name. Loneliness is what drives me to this site so often. I wish I undestood what it was they were really implying.
It's dominated my thoughts and made me question just how much family I really do have. I thought by starting my taper I'd at least legitimize my being here by honestly trying to clean up. I seem to be in a vulnerable state of mind and that question and the way it was put really got to me. Of course, they didn't leave a name, just lobbed the question out the side window as they drove by.

I'm also deeply troubled because I had had some correspondence with Maryanne recently which she ubruptly terminated and for the life of me I can't understand why. I feel I made a big mistake giving her my home e-mail address and street address. I now wonder who it was I was really talking to and what they plan to do with the information I gave them. I am not involved in anything illegal but "Maryanne"'s abrupt disconnect from me makes me wonder if someone just co-opted her handle for some purpose I still cannot fathom.

I'm going ahead with my tapering program but I don't know how much of it I should make public on this forum anymore. Something happened with the Maryanne connection and it's got me worried that I shared personal informaton with someone who, shall we say, does not have my welfare in mind.

Well, that's about all I have to say tonight, unless someone asks for my help, which I will always give willingly and unconditionally.

Perhaps "...Do you have family??" was more incisive than I first thought. Perhaps the answer is no.

[tom to Maryanne]

PLEASE CHECK YOUR AOL E-MAIL ACCOUNT FOR MY MESSAGES.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I hope you read this and know that I am concerned about you.  Please keep posting!  You know what we tend to think when people suddenly stop visiting here.  Forgive me but I didn't know that you had a problem with Darvon and Xanax.  As you know, I recently stopped my Lorcet.  This site has helped me a great deal when I got lonely and felt like using again.  The first week was pretty tough but now after two weeks, things look pretty rosy again.  You can do it, too.  J.B.

[Gina]

I know how you feel about the abrupt disconnection with Maryanne. Hopefully, she will se your posts and explain why. We tend to get paranoid when things like this happen. Just like my drs visit the other day when I heard the 2 nurses whispering and then the nurse to the dr. I felt my heart sink. I just knew it was about me. Sometimes your body reacts before you even process the info. Your "GUT" feeling is usually right, however. Please realize that you haqve ALL of our total support during your detox. Don't let a few spoil all the great things you have done for us on this site. I always find myself quoting things your have written to others. We are behind you 100%! May God be with you!

[tom to J.B. and Gina]

thanks, so much, friends, for your timely responses. If either of you are interested in the taper schedule in detail, mail me at ***@**** and I will send you a copy. I believe, if followed assiduously, it can get me where I want to go. It reflects my experience with my own usage and dosing patterns and doesn't introduce any radical changes.

If you want to know more about the Maryanne "incident", I'll fill you in on a strictly confidential basis. I want to assure you that it had no personal or sexual aspect, only the basic "business" of this web site.

Naturally, being frozen out by her, hurts my pride, but my real concern is for her. When people stop posting, as J.B. notes, it frequently means they're on a bender of one kind or another. More than anything, I just want to be assured that she hasn't let that happen to her. The service she volunteered to do for me is, in light of my taper decision, now academic and is not an issue. I just want to know she's OK.

Thanks J.B and Gina for your personal loyalty and support. I will keep in contact, especially when the tapering gets down to the "nitty gritty" of dosage reduction.

I X'd off my first "square" on the chart, and look forward to seeing this plan through to its conclusion. Take care. Give my best, J.B., to that guardian angel you have in Marty. I pray every night that the tamoxifen is working and that she's getting better.

[cutie pie]

To Tom, How are you today? First i have to say The first time i ever visited this site was the other day when i posted a question, so i'm not aware of what all goes on here yet.But i feel were all here basically for the same reason. Were all scared and need to have contact with others that are going through or have already been through what were dealing with.It doesn't matter if you have 100 family members, how many of us are willing to share whats going on with us to any of them and even if we were getting support from any of them, In our situations, can we get to much support?? When your getting replys from all areas not all of them are going to come across as positive feed back, so i hope you can try to not let it bother you, that's not going to help with your detoxing.How long has it been since you have heard from this person Maryann? There could be a number of reason's she dropped out, very meaningless reasons. All i know is,  anyone with any compassion knows what your going through and will be behind you 100 percent.I wish you the best.And do keep us posted on how your doing, we care. Lois

[tom to Cutie Pie]

well, my first day of tapering isn't too tough -- probably the last I'll be able to say that for. Since we're using pseudonames, I think it' safe to tell you that she was going to help me obtain a powerful new detoxification medicine, in a perfectly legal manner, and send it to me, since California is dragging its feet on enacting the already-approved measures on the books for private treatment here. She invited me to call a phone number to "make all the details." I assumed this meant the cost, shipping instructions, etc. But she never answers her phone and won't return my voicemails that I leave, even on-line(?). This is making me wonder if "maryanne" is a front for a DEA agent and was attempting to entrap me in something. Thank god I never succeeded in reaching her and actually making any arrangements. But I did rather naively communicate to her my home e-mail address, rather than using a hotmail account as I should have, and now I'm worried about exposing my personal details with someone who has not followed through with a single thing she said she would. I'm worried that there is no Maryanne, only a cop of some kind. At least no "deal" was ever made.

Thanks, for listening, Cutie Pie. My best wishes for your own recovery.
tom

The other scenerio is that she has relapsed and isn't answerng because of that. I wish I could resolve the whole thing and put it behind me. Thank god I never did or suggested doing anything even remotely illegal. The silence is the disturbing thing.

If you're lurking out on the foruum, Maryanne, please just post something so we can close this sorry chapter.

[Charlie to C]

Hey Tom, I wish you the best of luck in your "tapering" method of kicking it.  I didn't have good results tapering, I always chased that buzz.  I don't mean to discourage you; I'm just being honest.  Stay focused and stay busy, keeping away from idle time.  I'll have you in my prayers.
Charlie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It's one uncertain step at a time and pretty soon we are up and running again, Tom!  Here I am, so preoccupied with my own problems that I wasn't aware of your problems and the Maryanne thing.  Things will work out as they usually do and we'll get some benefit for the trouble.

How do you like this new and improved site?  I tried to post to the sponsors and couldn't!  It seems that I don't have a password to log on and can't figure out how to get one.  Have you had any problems posting on today's new threads?  J.B.

[Shiny]

Did they erase all Maryannes post too? What do you mean working for the DEA? Maybe the board dosn't like it when we talk about the DEA.

[cindi]

reply to cutie pie  
I read your post regarding maryann.  I can assure you she is not DEA.  I have talked with her using her real screenname and we have shared alot of personal stuff.  so you can relax.  take care      safire

[cindi]

To Anyone,  I do not really know to mych about oxycontin but i did hear on the news the other night that they can be chewed?  what does this do to the time release and exactly what happens when they are chewed?   thanks    cindi

[Gina]

I had trouble posting earlier too. You do as directed ( you know putting in your name you use) then it will tell you to put in your password. This is where I had trouble because I only use one password for everything. But it kept saying invalid. Your password is sent to your email address. They give you one. Mine happen to be numbers. So try again, let me know how you make out.

[cindi]

I had trouble posting,  it told me that it had had enough questions for one day dut to the staffing or something.  anyone else have this happen?      thanks cindi

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Hi there, I take Oxycontin 40 mg BID for chronic pain and the way it works is that it is supposed to last for 12 hours in your system and releases ~3.5 mg Oxycodone per hour...if you chew the pill (or break it in half) it will release all 40mg of medication at one time...this can be dangerous for you if you arent used to using this medication in such high doses or other opiates in large doses.  I am also prescribed Oxycodone 5mg tablets PRN for breakthrough pain.  These medications work very well for pain, and I do not notice feeling "high" or anything from taking them, I only feel pretty tired some days...I have a quesiton for you Cindi, actually!  Maybe you can help me, I too am an RN and have recently applied for a per diem job and they want to do a physical before I start the job(along with all of the usual FBI check and all that stuff) this week.  I take these pills as prescribed by my pain specialist, and as I said, they dont interfere with my mental state or anything like that.  Anyway, they want me to bring all of my vacc's/CPR card, etc... along with a list of all Rxs I take and will be doing a urine drug test I assume.  Do you think I will need to bring a letter or something from my pain doctor explaining that I am safe to work as a nurse while on these pills?  Any info you might want to share would be great...thanks a lot!

[cutie pie]

Does anyone else wake up feeling like their going through withdrawals? I suppose i'm having these symptoms because of the number of hours that have gone by since my last dose of pills. I have one symptom that i haven't read anyone else mention, and that is during the night i will start to cough for no reason and it will go on for quite a while except this doesn't happen every night. Anyone have that happen to them. All the other symptoms that i wake up with are one's i hear alot of you writing about.I would appreciate replys about this.

[cindi]

TO RN RE: JOB
Thanks for the info re: the oxy's  I left nursing by choice in 1995.  I prefer not to be around massive amounts of narcotics.I do keep my license.  All of these meds oxycontin, oxy Ir, ms contin and Norco are all new.  Only reason i know they exist is my mom was very ill and had been on various meds at different times for pain management up until she passed away this past christmas day.  The reason I asked is because a friend of mine takes the oxys and we saw on the news they can be chewed which I figured is dangerous, the coating can be removed or the can be taken IV after melting them. As far as your physical,  You never know what they may say re: your meds and mental alertness so if I were you I would get the letter from your Doc just to be safe.  It can never hurt to be cautious.  Just be sure you tell them all of your meds.  even over the counter.  One time i took some kind of cold medicine and gave a urine it showed up as a cocaine metabolite and i had never done cocaine at that point.   I hope this helps.  Good luck on the job and congratulations.  Maybe someday I'll have the guts to go back into nursing.  For now I'll play it safe.    cindi

[cindi]

whoever asked about the tylenol in Norco vs tylenol in Vicodin.  Norco has 10 mg of Hydrocodone and 325 of tylenol which is one tylenol     vicodin and Es has less hydrocodone and more tylenol    cindi

[cindi]

To Cutie Pie,  sorry about all the posts but i keep reading and then i have to butt in.  Something you said about coughing caught my eye.  I had posted awhile ago about vicodin tuss vs tussionex and I had mentioned that vicodintuss (hydrcodone) actually can cause a person to cough if they are not taking it for a cough.  Someone mentioned that when he takes vicodin tabs he wakes up with a dry hacking cough.  I also noticed that when i took vicodin or vicodin tuss I would cough for awhile during the night.  I too had woke up in the night feeling withdrawal symptoms.  sucks huh....take care cin     PS  Maryann sent me some E-mail on the 7th  i have heard nothing since then but she was ok and enjoying her life clean

[joedice]

please every one stay away from the oxycontin...i have been addicted to codiene & hydro for 11 years now, on and off.. more on then off though..  9 months ago i started the oxys 10 mg,i take between 10 & 15 pills a day. there a lot harder to detox from then the other stuff.. real bad withdrawel ..depression is the worst..was wondering if anyone else is on the oxys??i will be trying to quit again when i run out..i thank everyone for any help they can give me, its been a long 11 years and tomorrow i,ll be 50 don,t think i,ll see to many more if i keep this up..thanks again....joedice>>

[cutie pie]

To cindi, thank you for the reply. At least i have an answer for why i have been doing this.And that's exactly what it is, a dry hacking cough.I want to thank everyone out there willing to share their knowledge,  I will need all the help i can get. Thanks Everyone

[Leases (new)]

All I have to say is WOW...I have been floating in and out of this forum for a few months, reading what has caught my eye, and today I felt the need to write.  I can understand what you all think about almost every waking moment.  I have been taking Vicodin ES for a few years for migraines. Slowly but surely becoming addicted, and now wanting to get off them, but the withdrawals make you want to go crazy.  Even though we all dont know each other...we know better what we all are going through better than our family and friends.  Thats why I am going to frequent this board, because if I get just 1% of strength from here, that may be all I need to succeed in beating the addiction we are all fighting.  Good luck everyone, and just do it.

[Mikey Dee]

Yes Cutie Pie.  I wake up feeling that I'm getting sick because of the length of time since I last took Vicodin.  This is my first time on this board.  It confirms what I guess I already knew.  I'm addicted big time to Vicodin.  I've been taking it for 2 years.  I don't really use an awful lot more than I'm prescribed (using 5-6 per day).  But I definately determine how many pills I need when I go out, based on my schedule.  I also have prescriptions for Zoloft, Buspar, and Fioricet.  I usually mix the pills for "cocktails" as I like to call them.  I can't continue this.  I'm afraid that I'm damaging my liver.  I get stressed out when refill time comes (always too soon for my insurance to pay) or I need to go to the Doc to explain how much pain I'm in to get my refills.  I get 120 Vivodin ES's with 3 refills.  This has to stop.  I've lost weight (190 to 170 pounds)and am generally no longer "healthy" the way I was before this all started.  I came to this board to see if I could detox myself.  I wanted to know what to expect and how long it will take.  I think I can do it alone but I'm not sure if I should tell my wife (and get her help).  Anyway, thanks for all the info everyone.  It's good to know that I'm not alone and it can be done.  Now if I can just take that step.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

To Mikey Dee and Leasing:  You are to the point where you don't need anybody preaching to you so I won't start.  Yes, we gradually realize what is happening and the pain and insanity of it all makes us want to "do something" about the pill problem.  The point is that even us so-called oldtimers can still fall into the trap of addiction.  I'm one of them.  In the past few months I even went so far as to say that I had my addiction problem under control and could continue using narcotic pain meds safely.  I ended up drug seeking as usual and eventually back in NA/AA meetings.  I'm still counting the days since my last Vicodin/Lorcet and still uneasy but still determined to stay clean one more day.  I'm "buying time" by not using in the hopes that I have one more recovery left in me before the end of my life!  One of the best things I ever did was come clean with my wife and family about my "secret problem".  I found that it wasn't such a secret after all anyway, and the big ball and chain was removed so that they finally felt comfortable enough to start supporting me.  J.B.

[cutie pie]

To Mikey Dee, and leases. I also am new to this forum and am ammased to find how many people are in the same boat as i am. I never thought i would go hopping from Dr. to Dr. to get pills. And the panic when time to refill is there all the time because sometimes their refused. we all know that feeling. (PANIC.)I honestly think if i could get all the pills i want without having to go through all the work of getting them  and didnt worry about the damage i may be doing to my liver and what ever else i probably would never try to stop.The problem i'm sure we are all facing is, how eventually every so often we have to increase the dose because of the tolerance our bodies are getting used to, it just makes it that much harder to make the rx's that your able to get last.Good luck to you both

[cutie pie]

To Tom, How are you doing today. I really care. I will send good, and positive thoughts your way.

[tom to Cutie Pie]

I have resigned from participation on the forum, but if you'd liked to talk to me privately for an answer to your question,
use
***@****

[Chas]

I dont know if any of you have read my posts, but Im the one using the oxys and vicodin.  Well the sh*&t hit the fan and i broke down and told some people who care about me and they decided to send me to the hospital er and try to get me a bed to detox.  Well it started off good.  I was taken about 50 miles from where I lived to one hospital, then was taken by ambulance (can you believe it?!!?) 20 miles to another hospital for a bed to detox.  Well I was really ready to do it at first.  As soon as I got there I felt like I was in jail.  They didnt have a bed in the detox section so they put me in the mental health unit instead.  They told me they would detox me there.  They took my vitals and told me that I wasnt in withdrawl but I felt like ****! No MEDS. Wow it was a rough night.  The bed was like a wooden board and i hardly slept.  As soon as i woke up i wanted out.  They gave me some tylonol in the morning when i told them how I was feeling.  I desparately got on the phone trying to find someone to pick me up and get me outta there.  I finally did (against doctors orders so i may not get insurance coverage)
and i left that night.  Now im staying at a friends house who is very supportive.  Im turning my finances over to my dad so that im not tempted to get more pills and ill be on a strict budget.
But....  Today i conjered up a reason to go to my apartment and I chewed up two vics that I had leftover.  Now i dont know what to feel.  I was just coming out of the withdrawls and now im worried that ill have to go through em all over again.  I really dont want to use but its like uncontrollable and once i start thinking about it theres no turning back.  Im gonna keep trying though.  If anyone has any advice let me know.  Oh yeah and thanks tom for all of the pointers from someone who is experienced with all this.  These doctors dont know anything.

Chas

[Annie to TOM]

I just read your above 2/11 post about "do you have family."  I think you may have taken it wrong.  I can remember wanting to ask you that many times.  I can recall trying to post and having to exit out quickly, because my kids walk in or husband.  He knows I visit here, but is very concerned.  He is scared that I may give out to much info.  I feel like I know you all and I am not afraid of posting.  Any-way, there could be one million reasons why that happend.  Dont read to much into it.  I have family, but dont feel comfortable talking to them.....I just feel like they get tired of my problems.  This forum has given me a lot.  I think everyone here connects so well because we all have somthing in common.  Dont quit posting.........we will miss you.

[pat for tom to Annie]

tom wrote:

While I still feel the obligation to be actively working a program before posting on this forum, my "valet" pat will, from time to time, relay a message or two.

One suggestion for anonymity,

Type your posts in Microsoft Word or the equivalent, then highlight, copy and paste the entry into the forum window at the last moment. That will make your efforts less visible and improve the accuracy of your prose - not that yours needs any special help (mine often does).

[PS >>>>Annie]

......Just in case you miss it, I have a post for you under Ultram law.

[Flaco]

Tom is right on the $$$.......same situation here.....what he says is the TRUTH

[Kay64]

Hi - My boyfriend is going to start detoxing from Norco shortly.  I don't understand but am trying to so I can help him the best I can.  There seems to be a LOT of good advice on here but how does he start?  He is taking about 6-8 a day and has been for at least 4 years.  Does he weekly lower the amount he takes or should it be every few days?  Anything anyone can tell me to help would be great - thanks!

[Savas]

First, check the dates on the thread you reply to. This one is from 2001. But hey, that's okay, lots of good stuff in it, always good to see old stuff.

Well, it depends on how they do it. Is this an at home/ self detox, or with a doctor's aid?

If he's going to try taper, the best way to do it is to cut your dose by no more than 10%. He'll suffer mild symptoms for a week, possibly two. So the best way to go is by how long the symptoms are. How ever long they last, he should spend at least a week or two feeling "normal" before dropping again.
I'm at the end of a taper. At first, I dropped quickly, every two weeks for three months. By the third month I was stressed, tense and exhausted. So I switched to the above method to get some relief. The symptoms are minor, but without a respite, the stress builds over time. It's like having a bad cold for months on end.
Anything quicker, and you may as well just stop abruptly and go to an alternate medication therapy like clonidine. Fast tapers are generally torture, and not worth the trouble. The failure rate is incredibly high.

[lady209t]

[lady209t]

hi all ive been on norco for 3 years now and i want off these things i no its going to be very hard from what i read but im going to do this i took my last meds about 7;00am to day and i do feel ackie and i no its going to get real bad in a few more hours i want to say thanks for you all here i no that at the end of this that there is life thanks to all of you

[Zakk169]

Hello Sirs/Mams,

I am Zakk. My white devil is 40mg oxycodon HCL. 5 years now and I am at a breaking point. Let me elaberate.

I am prescribed by the VA (veterans admn). I started with percocets (5/325) back in 2000. I was injured from an airborne jump that went horiibly wrong. (US Army). As I said, I started with percs and went upward all the way to 40 mg oxys. I have been reading your posts and I must say, I am willing to detox asap! I need someone,anyone to email me asap at:
***@****

so I can get some help.

I am feeling like my life has taken a u-turn to hell. I can't concentrate. I have no sex drive. I feel like **** night and day, except about 1 hour after I swallow my white devil (my own name for this drug) up to about 2-3 hours after I take it. Then I feel I need more. I am somewhat self contained and most of the time I stay on schedule. After the oxy fades away I sometimes say to myself...a half won't hurt...and I take it...Well, halfs become a shortage around a week before refill time...sound familiar. I also sometimes bite my pill in half for faster relief. I also have been known to find outside recourses when I am feeling withdrawls. By the way, I am almost sure that death is better than withdrawl...??!! I am not suicidel, but lord, I need help.

I am sure there are people far more seriuos than me, but I am getting worse. 5 years is a realy long time. When I do find outside recourses, it is not the same as mine (meds). I will take, for example, 5-6 percocets and 4-5 vicodans in a day and not feel like I do as far as pain reduction as my 40's. I am prescribed 3 40 mgs a day and I take 4 some days.

I even tried to get my doctor to up the dosage, but he said no way! I've tried almost everything to get a higher prescription, and you know in a way, I am glad he denies me.

I can go on about the effects of this medication, but I am sure most of you know.

I would really like it if someone or all of you can talk to me and tell me your story so I don't feel alone anymore. These days I feel like I have no life and I miss my old life before my marriage to the "White Devil"...

In case your wondering how I got that name, I used to attend church religiously, no punds attended, and remember the surmons about the devil and how if you let him he will rule your life...Well, needless to say I got the "Devil" part because the oxy rules my life. Now, as far as the "White", I started this ****** addiction with white percocets, so thats where that came from...

I am a musician and I plan to write a song about it when my addiction is over.

Anyway, thank you guys and gals for letting me **** in your ears. I need help and I believe you are my only hope...????

Please email me at the email address I gave earlier in this post. If not, I will await someone's reply to this post eagerly...

Thanks again,

Zakk

[Astal]

Hi, I started taking tramadol. I was only taking it for 1 week give or take a few days. 2-3 pills 4 times a day for back pain and i noticed that when i woke up (not taking while sleeping) i was getting sick flu like symptoms ect. Im diabetic also. Well yeah i guess im addicted. I tried going cold turkey and simply couldnt do it. I was so sick, beyond sick. I was having a mental break down. Shaking, crying, horribly pain all over my body. So as of now im slowly lowering the amount im taking, im so scared though. I still am extremely emotionally unstable. I wish I would have never taken anything for the pain because when i think about it, it was nothing compared to this. People that went through this and are still around you have all my respect. Can you recommend anything for me to do to make this process easier. Im going to try valerian root like I read in the one post above.

[WakingSiren]

As a certified pharmacy tech and chemistry minor in college, I was well aware of the evils and perils of hydrocodone. It is far more addictive than codiene or any other "semi-natural" opiate due to the synthicizing and manipulation of the extra molecule that turns it from "codiene" to "hydrocodone".

In my younger years, I had taken just about any drug available for fun and loved LSD and any "downer" out there. I was never addicted to anything and went many years withouttouching anything stronger than an aspirin. Then, in 1978, a "wonderful and perfect" drug called Percodan showed up and I had a doctor who believed it's hype. Before I knew it, presto! My first addiction run! I have always believed that it takes a real professional to really turn you into a true junkie...and that's what happened.

I had no idea I was addicted to the stuff until I went to Madrid, Spain to live for a while. When I ran out, I popped over to the local doctor who was shocked that I was taking the stuff! He said he would write me one script but no more because, in Europe, they were already aware of how dangerous it was!

I was so addicted that I FLEW BACK TO THE U.S. JUST TO GET ANOTHER SCRIPT!!! I still can't believe that one! After a month of some wicked withdrawal, I was back my my usual youthful self and truly amazed at the damage done in the wake of that 6 month addiction!

Then time and tide turned and I ended up with a huge bone spur in my shoulder and no insurance for sugery. Well, guess what boys and girls? You got it! Once more with feeling! Only this time it is Norco!
I am 52 and a diabetic. I KNOW what toll detox plays on my body but I am fed up with being a slave to a damned pill!

Just for the record, ANYTHING over 4000 mg of acetametaphen a day is toxic to your liver. Each pill of Norco contains at least 350 mg. of it. It is the ONLY drug in which an overdose will simply kill you...there is NO counter drug! Our friend who was doing 75 of them a day was so much into the toxic level it is really amazing that his liver still functions. The Tylenol effect is even more dangerous than the "endorphen sleep" caused by the hydrocodone. (Your endorphons actually shut down or "sleep" while you are on the drug.)

The pharmaceutical companies who make this stuff knew all along that they were creating the perfect vehicle for addiction. Until the late 1970s, many of the current drugs weren't even available and doctors didn't hand out scripts like candy. In other countries, they have figured out these dangers and the ones who have "socialized" medicine seem to be the ones in the best control (not so much money to be made?!)

Please consider just who is really pulling the puppet strings, my friends!
We can stand together and really rise against the ones who desire to make us all slaves. It won't be easy, but we can find strength in one another and we can survive and thrive!

Good luck to us all!

[xBettyJox]

I'll tell you what, this is really going to suck when i stop the hydrocodone!  Whats sad is i dont take near as many as you guys and i feel like a real whimp.  As far as the tapering off, its not going to work for me.  Ive already tried it and i just end up wanting more.  The sad fact i was only taking 1 a day but in the last few days i been taking 3 or 4.  Ive been on it for about 2yrs mostly 1 a day though. I dont think i should be going through major withdrawals and its got to be easier then the ultram withdrawals i had.  Yea went to hydrocondne to help with the ultram withdrawals lol.  Im sick of not being able to live without a pill!  Its going to have to be cold turkey for me when i get brave enough to say no more.  OMG i dread it so bad, im not even giving it a chance cause ive only gone mabe 2 days without it.  I got to get a plan together and im going to have to force myself.  This ***** so bad!