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Tramadol *****,
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Tramadol *****,

I was prescribed Tramadol early this year for "Chronic Pain."  The  Dr. and the Pharmacist said that it was not addictive.

I have not abused the Medication.  I take 100mg 2 times a day.

I have also been doing exercise and physical therapy for my pain.  I decided to cut back and get off the Tramadol a couple of weeks ago because I'm not having bad pain, and it has been aliving Hell.  Just cutting down 50mg at a time gave me extreme anxiety.  so I thought I would just quit altogether and try to go "Cold Turkey."  If I thought I was in Hell before, I really was in Hell then.

The Anxiety was so bad  I couldn't stand it.  I only went a day and a half and today I took my regular dose again.

The Anxiety is greatly diminished and I don't feel so sick, but I am super-scared as to how I will get off this medication.

I have an appointment with my Dr. tomorrow to discuss it, but I don't really know what the Dr. can do for me.

I'm thinking I'll just have to do a really slow taper, just a quarter tablet at a time.
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63 Comments Post a Comment
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I'm so sorry you are in this position, another victim of this **** drug.  The good news is that you hit on the truth a lot earlier than many of us who were on tramadol for years before appreciating what it was doing to our systems.

You are spot on with your instinct to slowly taper off.  It's highly likely that this will significantly diminish withdrawal symptoms & allow your serotonin levels to adjust thereby reducing the anxiety & depression.

Many doctors still don't seem aware that Tramadol has a very similar chemical structure to Effexor.   However, more doctors seem to know about the tapering requirements for anti-depressants so you may get more assistance if you tell your doctor the emotional effects will likely be somewhat tapering off that drug.

High doses of the B group vitamin Inositol, (6 grams, twice daily), pretty much cured my withdrawal related anxiety after 6 years use on the same dose as you.

Don't be scared, with a slow enough taper, withdrawals will be very manageable.  If you are feeling too uncomfortable just stay on your reduced dose a day or two longer before lowering the dose again.

It's so depressing to find that 2 years since I quit, there remains such a lack of knowledge about tramadol in the medical profession.

Best wishes.

M
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madtram gave you excellent advice.......

madtram......welcome back!!!  Its been a long time!!
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Thanks Sarah, I would like to be on more often but have had family challenges.  As you see from my last post, my sister nearly odosed on her anti-alcohol meds & the docs thought she was brain dead, before she finally came out of a coma, two weeks ago.

The costs of addiction are high enough for those who at least have fair warning of what they are getting into but I especially feel for those tram users who think they are taking a pill with no more risks than aspirin.
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I hope your sister will be okay~~~~Having a family member who is ill is very emotionally draining.

I am still so shocked by all the tramadol that is being prescribed and the doctors not telling of all the dangers.  You wonder what it will finally take before this med is discontinued.....
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Thank you for your support and suggestions.

Regarding the B Vitamin, what type of supplement provides that much B.

I have a Sub-Lingual form, but the dosages of the different B's are listed in Milligrams and Micrograms.  Also, it's pretty nasty tasting, and it takes almost an hour for the Tablet to dissolve under my tongue.

However, I've heard that a Sub-Lingual is the best way to absorb it.

When you say "6 Grams" are you referring to a "Sub-Lingual" or a "Swallow" type.

Also, I'm not sure how to taper.  I was thinking 1/2 tablet a day for a week or two, then another half tablet again for a week or two, etc.

How long did it take you to taper off this awful medication.

Thank you.

  
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my wife is a nurse and can't believe tramadol is addictive.."Look at me, I said...look at me a few months ago when I tried to cold turkey"  Look in here at all the people hooked on these devils.   Look it up on google...

and yet doctors prescribe it like they're handing out M & M's...I was getting scripts for a 120...a 15 day supply!!! with up to 5 refills!

God help me as I get through my last day on them (took my last one at around 11AM)..I feel fine..we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Jim
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You need to get inositol on its own.  They have it at places like iherb, not sure about Walmart as I am in Australia.  It comes in both high dose tablets or capsules & powder forms & both seem to work fine for me.  The powder has no strong taste so you can have with water or juice & may be absorbed more quickly.
Try 6 grams single dose twice a day to start.

For other single b vitamins, high doses of sublingual b12 can also be helpful, I have a nice tasting cherry flavoured one.  A total b group supplement like you are taking can also be helpful but won't have enough inositol or b12 to get the direct benefits on your nervous system.

There is no exact science to tapering as all our bodies respond differently so it's best to do a bit of self experimentation. Reducing by half a tablet a week is a good start but if that's too much of a shock to your system, try reducing by a quarter instead or holding the same dose for 2 weeks.  All that matters is to not ever increase the dose, as so long as you continue to taper down, you will reach your goal of being tramadol free.

I knew very little about tramadol when I quit.  I had withdrawal symptoms for a long time while I was still on the drug, due to tolerance.  (Thankfully it didn't occur to me to increase my dose to more than 100 to 200mg per day).  The level of ignorance about tram was such that I was diagnosed with strange viruses & chronic fatigue, rather than anyone blaming the tramadol.

When I did some further research & found Emily Post on this site, I was so shocked to realise that all my symptoms matched others going through tramadol withdrawal, I pretty much quit cold turkey.  I would not recommend this as it can be very hard on the system.

If you would like daily support from others going through tram withdrawal now, I highly recommend Emily's journal, there is a wealth of information from people who have come off doses ranging from 8 grams a day for long periods to short term low dose users.

The link for the current thread is http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/207363/Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-35?personal_page_id=142
It's worth reading the whole journal though.

Great job, Jim, so glad you feel fine so far.  Be kind to yourself.

M
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I hate that drug, i was hooked for a very long time now im over two years clean, i dont get on this site much anymore but im pretty sure that this is how i overcame it just by talking with all the people. Addiction ***** looking back at all my old posts is a major wake up call to  remind me to never follow that path once again. Good luck with this as long as you want to stop you will.
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I haven't been able to sleep for several days now, even though I went back on it.  I'm starting to feel pretty sick and weird/wired.

I left a message for my Dr. this morning so I'll see what he says, but I don't think I can take not sleeping too much longer.
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Thank you Madtram...appreciate it...I'm doing fine...too busy at work but I'm feeling fine...off to see my therapist in 45 mins and I can't wait...got a lot to dump on him this week...he'll have to see HIS therapist when I'm through.


Jim
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Well I talked to my Dr. today and his advice is to take Valium 3x a day for the withdrawal anxiety while I'm tapering off, and to help for sleep.

I would like to do this, as the anxiety has been pretty bad, but I'm worried about then having to come off the Valium, because wouldn't it be the same type of withdrawal?
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a different type of withdrawl (withdrawal)...you MUST HAVE YOUR DOCTOR GIVE YOU A TAPER PLAN FOR VALIUM OR SIMILAR MEDS...Seizures can take place if you just cold turkey it.

They can help for the anxiety, no question...and you likely will need help for that..but be careful..try taking walks, other excersize, etc as wel

Jim
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I'm doing that, along with alot of other things I've read here.  I got the Inosital, I'm taking walks a couple of times a day, drinking Chamomile Tea, Calmes Forte, I just feel as though I'm losing my mind.

I've never had anxiety this bad, and I'm still on the same dose of Tramadol.  I have these, I don't know what to call them, "Surges of Panic" like electricity going through my body and my brain.

I can doze off for a little bit, but then I'm wide awake with this awful feeling shooting through my body.

I did take a Valium this afternoon, and even that didn't totally take away the Anxiety, and this weird feeling.  Just made me doze for about 45 minutes and wake up feeling weird.

He said I could take 1 Valium during the day, and 3 at nightime for sleep.  Along with Trazodone.

I can manage the weirdness in the day if I can get at least a few hours of sleep at night.

I have never felt so helpless before.  I don't see much point in a taper if I'm not going to be able to sleep during the taper, and then more lack of sleep when I stop.

I can't concentrate or focus on anything like reading.

At least I can write about it here, and know other people are going/gone through the same thing.
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Well, I don't know if this was the smartest thing to do, but after trying to get some sleep last night, after taking the Valium, still having major anxiety and not sleeping, I took some Vicodin and Dramaine.

It helped with the awful anxiety and I was able to get some sleep.

I don't have alot of Vicodin, but I'm going to take that and the Dramaine for the next few days and then stop when I run out.

I don't mean I'll take them all at one time, but schedule them throughout the day, and taper off them over the next week.  I don't ever want to take a Tramadol again.

I also found a Website "The Road Back," which had alot of good information about getting off medication.  Of course it involves supplements, which they supply, and I ordered 2 of them to try, and I'll see how that works as well.

One contains Passion Flower which I read is good for Anxiety, another one they mentioned was Biotin.

Please pray for me, or send positive energy that I will make it through this.
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on it's way!
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Thanks.  I took another dose of the Vicodin at 8:30 this morning along with the Dramanine and I don't feel too bad right now.

My plan is to take 3, 4 times a day for 2 days, 2 4 times a day for 2 days, 1 1/2 4 times a day for 2 days, 1, 4 times a day for 2 days, then 1/2, etc., along with the Dramaine.  That gives me a 10-11 day taper, and then I'll stop.

In the meantime I will be exercising and taking my supplements to help boost my system for when I stop.

I'm just so amazed that the Dr. and the Pharmicist think this medication has no withdrawal effects, and here I've been suffering with Withdrawals going on 2 weeks just trying to taper.

I will not ever take any medication prescribed by a Dr. without researching it thoroughly first.

I had a similar incident 20 years ago after my Mother died.  It was a very Stressful time, and I was having alot of anxiety.  The Dr. I was seeing then prescribed Xanax for me, but never said it was addictive and that I should not stop taking it all at once.

After 2 months of being on this medication I was feeling alot better, and again, I never took more than prescribed, so I decided I didn't need it anymore and just stopped taking it.

I went through horrible withdrawals in the first 48 hours, had a seizure, and the Dr. put me back on it, telling me "then" that this was a highly addictive drug, and that you should never just "stop" taking it without tapering down.  However, going back on the the dose I had been on was not effective, and I didn't sleep at all for six weeks.  I found a Psych Dr. that specialized in getting people off Xanax, and she switched me to Klonopin and convinced me to try taking Trazodone.

After not sleeping for six weeks, I really was desperate, so I started taking the Trazodone and Klonopin I was able to start getting 2 or 3 hours of sleep at night, but it took 3 months to taper off the Klonopin, and I felt sick  the whole time, and another few months after I stopped taking the Klonopin to start feeling "Normal" again.

Even though I wasn't sleeping, I couldn't stand just sitting on the couch all day feeling crazy, so I started exercising alot, and my house was cleaner than it has ever been before or since.  I used to walk around town feeling like a "crazy person."  I even begged her to put me into a Psychiatric Facility, several times, but she encouraged me to stay at home.  She was a very good Dr. and was available for me during the several times I felt so weird and awful I just wanted to kill myself.

I never thought I'd find myself going through something like this again, and being older doesn't make it any easier.  I also have a Husband and a 13 year old daughter, and instead of spending the summer doing the things that I wanted to do with her, I'm struggling to get off this med.

I do try to do the best I can, and I have explained to her that I'm on a medication that is making me sick, but that I will get better.  Fortunately, at 13, she has a good friend network, and is involved with alot of her own projects, still I feel guilty that I'm not there for her as I'd like to be.  My Husband is being understanding, and I'm not working right now, so I can concentrate on taking care of myself.  I'm just telling myself over and over again that I went through something like this before and got better, and I will get through this and get better.

I don't know why, but the Dramamine seems to be more helpful for the Anxiety than the Valium.  Also, I need to try and keep myself as busy as  I can doing physical things, since I can't seem to concentrate on anything.
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Well, I don't know why it's helping, but it's helping.

Taking some Vicoden every 6 hours along with Dramamine and  GABA has helped reduce the anxiety greatly and I was able to take a Nap and wake up without feeling like there was electricity running through my body.

I didn't think I would use an Opiate to try to get off this Tramadol, but it seems to be making it easier.  I will start tapering tomorrow and keep tapering down over the next week to 10 days.  Hopefully then when I stop the Vicodin, I'll keep up the Dramamine and GABA and the Withdraw won't be as hellish as it's been trying just to taper off the Tramadol.

My heart goes out to everyone here who is trying to get off these awful addictivie medications.


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great news...be careful with that vicodin...I tried kicking tram by taking a percocet once a day several months ago..for me it didn't work..I'm glad it's working for you but I'm not sure there's a gurantee that this will make it any easier for you.  Your body is still getting the opiate/drug it's screaming for and one day it will be gone and your body will still be screaming...I hope I'm wrong and hope someone will correct me if I am

Best of luck to you badshadow..


Jim
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I am going to be very careful with it, and your right, I don't know if it will make it any easier, but I've never had so much anxiety as I've had with this Tramadol.

The night is the worst because I start getting really anxious about whether I'm going to be able to get any sleep.  If I could overcome that anxiety and just put it in the perspective of "well if I don't sleep, it won't kill me.  I may feel uncomfortable and tired, but I'll be alright" I think half my battle would be won right there.

But I've had a Sleeping Disorder all my life, and don't sleep that well even when things are not overly stressful in my life.  So something like this really gets the anxiety going.

I start "What-Ifing," "what if I can't sleep," "what if I never sleep again," "what if I go crazy from not sleeping," my mind just goes in circles.  I've taken Behavioral Modifcation Classes for my Anxiety Disorder, and it does help some, but almost always, when night starts to fall I get this tightness and tension in my gut.  I try to do "Relaxation Breathing," "no sugar or caffeine," "nothing stimulating before bed," etc. but it's still always that "knot in my stomach" about whether or not I'll be able to sleep.

I'm afraid to travel because I don't sleep well away from home, I don't do alot of things because of this fear.

I know I can take Ambien or other sleep aids, but I don't want to become dependent on those either, so I just do the best I can.

I was actually doing o.k. with my sleep and my taper until I decided to try going off the Tramadol "Cold Turkey."  Even though I went back on at the dose I was prescribed, I haven't been able to sleep for several nights now.  Just doze off for a little bit and then I wake up feeling like electricity is shooting through my body and my brain.

I talked to my Dr. again today, and he is suggesting I go on "Seroquel," but I'm afraid of going on any different kind of medication now because of side effects, and then if it doesn't help, I'll feel worse then I already do.

I know I can knock myself out if I take enough Valium and Ambien but I'm afraid of that too.

I belong to Kaiser and they have a Chemical Dependency program, but you still have to go off the Medication Cold Turkey, and then sit in classes all day while your detoxing.  If I'm not sleeping, I would not be safe on the road to drive.

Fear of what is happening to me is my biggest enemy.  If I could just conquer that fear, I know that would be half the battle.

I'm trying to give myself alot of positive re-inforcement, that I will get through this, I may not sleep for awhile, but I will be alright, and I will get through it.  Obviously many other people have, as I've seen and read here on this forum.

Thank you Bear for talking to me and listening.  I know your going through the same kind of thing.

I really appreciate anyone who responds to me here and gives me encouragement for what I'm trying to do.
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Today I start tapering off the Vicodin.  I'm going to taper 1 pill a day, and I should be off it in 7-10 days.

I did get some sleep last night with the help of Trazodone, GABA, and Dramamine.  I feel groggy today, but the Anxiety is not as bad as with the Tramadol.  I'm not taking enough Vicodin to get "high," but just to take the edge off.

I'm also continuing to take my supplements and am keeping things quiet so I don't get more stressed out.

I know that in a month the worst should be over, and I will start feeling better.
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I'm down to 3 5/500 4 times a day.  I started at 4, 4 times a day.  Last night I had my dose at 9p.m. then after I fell asleep, I woke up at 9, so I went 12 hours.  I feel a little sick today, but I will not go back up or take any more than how I've scheduled my taper.

I'm getting some sleep at night, which is good, I don't feel like I'm losing my mind right now.

I'll stay at this dose for 2 days, and then I'll make another drop.

Has anyone else been on Trazodone for sleep?
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Just a couple of suggestions here - my dr. recommended Valerian Root (for anxiety and sleep) and melatonin tabs for sleep, both available over the counter.  I've got some and they DO seem to help a lot.
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Hi there! I have looked at all of the post on this site. It is very good to know people really care. I was given trazadone by my suboxone doctor. I could not take it though because it made my heart race. I was gonna tell you also to be careful with the vicoden. You arent having bad withdrawls because of the vicoden in your system. Your receptors are still being fed what they want. But I completely understand you wanting to taper. Just woundering if you will have enough to completly tapor. Just wanted to say Im pulling for you!
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Thanks everyone for caring about what I'm going through.  AZKathy, I have Valerian  Root and Melatonin, but I need to check with my Dr. about the Valerian Root since I'm on the Trazodone and it is an anti-depressant.   Sometimes you are not supposed to mix certain "Natural" or "Herbal" supplements.  I've tried the Melatonin before and it gave me such bad Nightmares I didn't try it again.

I suffer from PTSD and already have Nightmares worse than some of the Horror Movies they make.

Tryntogetwell, the Trazodone did make my heart beat faster when I first started it, and it is a side effect, but my body adjusted so I don't have that now.  Thank you for support.  It really does mean alot to me to have people here who don't even know me care about what's happening to me.

Also, I'm not in severe withdrawal yet because of the Vicoden, and I do have enough to taper.  I have 90 5/500 mg tablets.  I have this many because I've had Dental work that was painful, but after I got clean last year, I never used this medication.

The only reason I'm using it now is because trying to taper off the Tramadol for some reason was horrible so I switched over to the Vicodin, and the taper is not as bad.

My Husband knows what I'm doing, and has the medication so he can give me the amount I need.

I'm trying to stay to a "every 4 hour" dosing schedule so there's at least some Vicodin in my system every few hours, and I'll contine to taper that way.  After tomorrow, I'll go down to 2 1/2 tablets every 4 hours, after a couple of days 2 Tablets every 4 hours, and so on.

I am not getting high from this medication, just trying to make it easier on my body and brain.

I worked hard to get my recovery, and I'm sorry I ever started taking the Tramadol.  Even though I never abused it, I still was having a horrible time trying to get off it.  I had no clue it was such a horrible drug.

My number 1 goal is to get "clean" again, and to keep working on my Recovery.  I was addicted for over 10 years and have gone through so much.  I do not want my life to be taken over again by drugs.

Thank you to everyone here who has read my posts.  I think I can say I do understand what others are going through trying to get off drugs, the difficulties and challenges, and my prayers and support go out to everyone here.
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Badshadow...interesting what you say about not sleeping....I have ALWAYS had fear of not being able to sleep..probably another reason I was taking pills..I can't for the life of me remember when this fear started, likely when I was a kid (didn't take pills then) but I'd lie awake all night listening to the radio or something like that.  

perhaps it goes back to my mother's death when I was 8.


Jim
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I've always had a hard time sleeping too.  I think it stems from a number of very bad things that happened to me growing up.

My mother was an Alcoholic, and I remember being only 2 or 3, my brother was 4 or 5, and she would leave us home alone at night to go out drinking.  I remember being really scared to be alone and couldn't fall asleep.  Then, when she did get home, on some nights, and I don't know what made her do this, she would get an electrical cord, come in my room, throw the covers off me and just start beating the s*** out of me.  Then she'd go to my brother's room and do the same thing.

I ended up being afraid "to" fall asleep, and afraid of "not" falling asleep.  I felt like I had to be "vigilant" all the time.  When I did sleep, I would have terrible nightmares.

When I was 16 I was kidnapped by 2 men who did some pretty bad things to me.  Afterwards they took me back to my house and threatened to kill me if I went to the Police.  I didn't know what to do, and I ended up telling a Lady that I knew, and she talked me into calling the Police and reporting it.  She told me that they would do the same thing to another girl if I didn't report it.  I know this may sound mean, but in retrospect, I wish I had never let her pressure me that way and report it to the Police.

The Police were horrible to me, my mother was horrible to me, and that's when I really started becoming afraid of sleeping and not being able to sleep.  I was so terrified that they were going to come in the middle of the night and kill me and my family.

The Police never did catch them, and even when I moved out on my own, I still suffered from that fear.  For most of my life I've gone on 2-3 hours of sleep a night.  When I was younger I could do it.  I was a single parent at 21, worked full-time and went to college full time also.

Now, I'm 55, and I'm so sensitive to anxiety and sleeplessness that it makes my life very difficult.

Having to go through this Drug Withdrawal is difficult.

My heart goes out to you, because I so much understand that fear of not being able to sleep.

I will keep you in my prayers, that you find some peace and serenity in your life, and that this fear will leave you.
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I am so sorry to hear what happened to you & especially the lack of support for you at the time.

I'm glad you have found some relief for your tramadol side effects.  I can't help wondering if the fear of not sleeping is more related to the tramadol than anything else.  Before tramadol, I had never had trouble sleeping but in withdrawal, I developed what can only be be described as an obsession about my failure to sleep.  I was able to deal with the other side effects of withdrawal pretty well but I just couldn't handle the sleepless nights.

I also had cognitive behaviour therapy which helped generally but I didn't apply it successfully to the insomnia & instead gave in & took the prescription med Lunesta, (zopiclone).   This was a big mistake as due to my irrational fears about not sleeping & the fact that it worked really well, (put me to sleep & not overly drowsy the next day), I kept taking it much longer than the recommended 10 days.

Months down the track, my script finally ran out & I came off cold turkey only to find that the symptoms were as bad as coming off tramadol & of course included a return to the insomnia.

I later came across the Ashton manual for benzos which makes it clear that the z drugs are similar enough to benzos that they need to be tapered from & it is common to experience the same withdrawal symptoms as in benzo withdrawal.

I still have some nights when I just can't sleep & am also still struggling with the fears surrounding this but am determined to deal with it using cbt rather than drugs.  I think that coming off tramadol is so traumatic for the brain, it cements any fears that you are having at that time.  Some people report that tramadol caused suicidal ideation, perhaps for us it has caused fear of insomnia.

Jim, 8 years of age is a particularly traumatic time to lose a parent & I'm sure it could still effect you years later.

Wishing you both a full recovery,

M
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Thank you for your support,

I haven't heard of Lunesta, and I'm not going to ask for anything for sleep because I don't want to end up in the same boat with another medication.

Switching over to Vicodin from Tramadol and tapering off the Vicodin seems to be working, and I am getting some sleep.

I'm down to 9 Vicodin today.  Monday I'll go down to 7 a day, and right now the Anxiety isn't so bad.  By the end of the week I should be off all Vicodin, and on the road to getting my life back.

MadTram, you've been through alot, and I'm sorry to hear of your suffering with this same horrible Sleep Anxiety.  The CBT has been helping me over the past few days.  Be kind to yourself and take care of yourself.  Do something that makes you feel good.  Go to bed with a Teddy Bear if it gives you comfort.  (I do.)  I also read Children's stores which for some reason makes me feel calm.

How long have you been off the Tramadol?

We can all do it together.  None of us are bad people, we did get caught up in  bad medication/s.  All we want is to feel better, and there are alot of meds that do make us feel better initially, but turn out to be monsters for us.  We end up taking more when they stop working as well, we end up forging scrips or doing other illegal things, but we are just Human that way.  At least we have a fighting chance to change ourselves and to try and help others.

I never knew until I came on this Forum that others had that same "Fear of Not Sleeping" as I do.  Knowing that others have the same problem makes me feel less alone.

Everyone on this Forum is in my prayers and I hope we stay here and help each other on our journey toward recovery and a better life.  I know I will stick around.
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Your post really caused me to think about my fear of insomnia & understand what a strong influence this irrational fear has had on me.

I have been free of tramadol for two years but it was many months later before I appreciated that Lunesta, (it's like ambien only worse), was a benzo which was also having a negative effect on my body.  As Emily Post has said many times, we are prescribed drugs to treat the side effects of other drugs.

It's great that the vicodin taper is helping with your symptoms, particularly the insomnia.  I just read a reputable study where pure jasmine oil was found to be as effective as sleeping pills so I am keen to test this out.  It has to be 100% jasmine, not blended which is very expensive but hopefully a few drops a night will work.

Best wishes.
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Congratulations on being free from Tramadol for 2 years.  Are you off the Lunesta now as well?  I was reading that any long term use of Anti-Anxiety Medications depletes your Brain of Vitamin of B-6, which is a precursor for Seratonin and Melatonin.

It really s**** when we start on a medcation not really understanding where we can end up on it.  I had been doing well with my recovery and thought that the Tramadol was doing great for my Arthritis until I started noticing some strange side-effects, and then I looked on-line and found out how many people were addicted and having such a hard time getting off this.

One thing though, I'm learning alot about different supplements and how they can help me in this process.  I've been taking them every day and they really do seem to make a difference in terms of my Anxiety.

I'll definitely try the Jasmine Oil, and get some Jasmine Tea too, which I like.

What are you supposed to do with the Jasmine Oil?  Put it on your pillow or put a few drops in some water and drink it?

My fear of insomnia definitely impacts my life. I think I said that I don't travel because of it.  The thing I've noticed too is that it seems to be getting worse as I get older.

I'm trying to learn to meditate and just visualize all of my fears just leaving me.  Also, exercise is important too.  Now though, since I have problems with Arthritis I can't excercise like I used to. I can go for short walks, but I can't do intense exercise to tire myself out.

Some days I feel "Frozen" in Fear.  I don't want to move off my couch.  I don't know where that fear comes from.  I'm not really "afraid" to leave my house, I just don't want to.  Same with driving.  I don't have Panic Attacks, just alot of Generalized Anxiety.

A couple of years ago, my Dr. started me on 10mg of Valium at bedtime.  I could take one in the daytime if I needed it, but seldom have.  Now, the 10mg at bedtime doesn't work for me anymore, but I don't want to take more.  I want to get off the Vicodin, then get off the Valium, and just eat right, take supplements, learn to relax and meditate.

Madtram, I hope you find some comfort and relief from your fears.  If I had a Magic Wand and could just Magically Erase them I would.  I know what it's like to suffer with these fears, and unless your someone who has experienced it, it's hard to understand what it's like.
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I don't know why, but I just had/am having a horrible Anxiety Attack.  I felt like my skin was crawling, I kept having to go to the bathroom, and I felt like I was losing my mind.

I don't know if this withdrawal related or what.  Things haven't been too bad so far, but I am going lower and lower on my doses.  Still trying to keep them 6 hours apart.  It was getting close to the time of my next dose, so maybe my body is just starting to feel the withdrawals more.

Part of me just wants to say S**** this, and just stop, but if I stopped today I would be stopping at 45mg.

I still have enough for several more days, and I wanted to keep tapering down to 1/2 every 6 hours for a couple of days, and then stop.

This whole thing is crazy.  My Dr. wants me to take Seroquel at night for sleep.  I am sleeping some, and I'm scared to add another medication into the Mix that I may have trouble getting off of.

I also have Klonopin which he said I could take 1/4 of in the day for Anxiety and 1/2 to 1 at night for Anxiety and Sleep, but I have the same fear.  Even if it's only for a few weeks while I taper and get off this stuff, I'm still scared to add another Medication in.

I've had Klonopin before, a long time ago when I was having a really hard time with my Anxiety after my mother died.  My Dr. had me on it for awhile, and then slowly tapered me off it.  She said that tapering off Klonopin is easier than tapering off some of the other Anti-Anxiety Medications because it stays in your system longer.

Anyway, I don't know, and I'm not sure what to do.

I feel drowsy in the daytime, but I try to make sure I don't nap or sleep since that can make sleeping at night even harder.

I'm feeling depressed right now.
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Hang in there, this will pass.  Emily was prescribed klonopin for anxiety that only started after being on tramadol for a while.  She was on the klonopin for at least a year & had a very hard time when tapering off.  You can read back through her journal for her experiences.

Benzos are best avoided but IMHO, based on Dr Ashton's recommendations & my experience, the least damage would be done by using the lowest effective dose of valium at night & tapering off that.  Valium has a much longer half life than klonopin so is easier to taper from.   Dr Ashton uses valium to taper people off other benzos.

Do you know how to do belly breathing exercises, they can be very helpful when the panic hits.

Thanks so  much for your concern for me.  I stopped the Lunesta cold turkey about 9 months ago, so it has taken a long time to recover from withdrawals & regain normal sleep.  I also hit perimenopause around the same time, hormones all over the shop which adds to the fun.

I will post some more precise info about the jasmine oil, once I check it out.  I have high hopes for this too.

I am better than I have been in so many years & you are closer to that point with every day that passes.  Even though you feel deep in the woods, the path will become clearer if you hold your current course.

Hugs from M
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That's what happened to me.  I started having this awful Anxiety after being on the Tramadol.

How do I read "Emily's Journal?"

Thank you so much for being here for me.  I am on the  Valium and with what you told me, I will stay on it and not switch.

I do know how to do the "Belly Breathing" exercises.  I did some and it did help calm me down, but it was also time for my "dose," so I took that as well.

I feel much less Anxiety right now.  I've been experimenting with the Amino Acids and I've noticed that when I take the Aminos my Anxiety gets worse.  I don't know why that would be, but I've tried an Amino Acid Complex several times, and each time I've taken it my Anxiety gets worse.

I'm in Menopause, so I know what your going through there.

Madtram, what did you do with your time while you were going through all these withdrawals?  Did you have to work?  I don't have to work right now, but I'm having a hard time concentrating on things.  Although posting here helps take up some of my time.  I try to read, but have a hard time concentrating.

I looked up the Jasmine Oil for Sleep and it said to put a few drops on your pillow.  It also said that it can give you "Vivid Dreams," which I don't need since I suffer from Nightmares from PTSD.  I hope it helps you though.  If you get the Pure Essential Oil from a Health Food Store, I don't think it would be too expensive.  When I was working as an Esthetician, I would use Aromatherapy in my Facials.  I have allergies though, so I cannot really tolerate prolonged exposure to them, although I do like Lavender.

I feel like I am finding friends here, like yourself, and it feels good.

My Dr. also prescribed a low dose of Seroquel for sleep at night.  I've read several posts here about it, and I think I will try it when I get it filled.

I've read bad things about it at higher doses, but people have reported it helpful for sleep at lower doses.

I'm also taking Dramamine at night to help for sleep.  Anything for some Blessed Sleep.

Hugs to you also, and thank you again for reaching out to me.  You really don't know how much it means.

I wish you Health and Wellness and Peaceful Sleep and all the good things you deserve and are working so hard for.
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For Emily's journal go to this link & you will see a list of all her journal entries.

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/list/544292?personal_page_id=142

There are many entries & many others have contributed so it will take a while to read the whole thing but it's worth scrolling through from the beginning as there is lots of useful information & comfort to be gained.

As luck would have it, I had just quit my job as a corporate lawyer & company director to start full time study when I quit tramadol.  I managed to complete a post graduate degree in biomedical science in spite of the various withdrawals but it has certainly been very disruptive & I did not achieve the very high GPA I need  to get into my chosen profession of registered medical nutritionist so I need to do some further study but this is going much better as my brain function slowly returns to normal.  I didn't realise how badly the benzos were affecting my brain until they started to wear off.

If your anxiety worsens after the amino complex, I suspect that you may be sensitive to l-tyrosine which is a precursor for the stimulating neurotransmitters, norepinephrine & dopamine.  I would try dropping the aminos & see if that helps.  It will be difficult for you to be sure about what is making a difference, given that you are on several different meds but if you gradually drop one at a time, it should help give you a picture.

There is also some evidence that tramadol & benzos may cross react so that each intensifies the effect of the other.  The consequence of this is that you may find that when you decrease your dose of either one, it throws you into withdrawal again.  This is another reason why a very slow taper from both drugs is very important.

I'm glad you are feeling a little better.
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Well, I'm really starting to feel sick today.  Don't feel like eating or drinking. Just feel sick and depressed.

Madtram, I read a few pages of Emily's Journal, but I can't do anymore right now.  Just being on the computer makes me feel weird and hard to concentrate.
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Hi!  I haven't been on much lately and have been SO busy, but I wanted to encourage you to keep up the fight against tramadol!  It is so worth it!!!  You will have your life back in no time.  Just have some patience!

Hugs to you!!!  
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Thanks Tramhater, it really helps to have the support here.  I have't been around any of my friends lately because I know I don't look that great right now and I just don't want to have to go into any big explanation of what's happening.

Madtram, thanks for the heads up about the L-Tyrosine.  I checked the label on the Amino Acid Complex I have, and it is in there.

Tramhater, patience is the one of the main things I have trouble with in my life.  However, I don't really have any choice do I.

I'll still be on 45mg today, and then do another drop tomorrow.  I've been tapering for a week now, my plan was to taper for 10-11 days, and I'm on track for that.

My Anxiety is getting to be less, at least it's not very bad right now.  I think maybe that I've switched to the  Vicodin my brain is adapting too.  I don't know, I'm no Brain Expert, LOL.

I know one thing though, that Tramadol was giving me Anxiety.  Even if I have to taper off the Vicodin, I'm happy to be off that Tramadol.

Thanks everyone for the support and kindness.
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Well, the Anxiety seems to come and go during the day.  Sometimes I don't feel it at all and sometimes I feel it very intensely, like now.

The Nausea is really bothering me today.  I have a few phenergan, but I was trying to save those for when I come off all together.

I'm actually down to 30 mg today, so that's a drop of 15mg from yesterday.

I don't feel like doing anything.  I've just been watching movies.

I feel guilty that I'm not up cleaning my house and working, but I just don't feel any motivation to do anything.

I'm taking 20mg of Valium at night, so I am getting a few hours of sleep.  I do feel good about my taper, and I know it will be over with soon.

The thing is, if I'm not up and taking care of business, my family (husband and daughter) just let everthing go and it pisses me off.  It's like I have to be a Drill Seargent here.  Constantly reminding them to wash their dishes, pick their towels off the floor in the bathroom.  If I'm not constantly asking them to help, they just don't do anything and don't seem to mind if the house is dirty or clean.

I'm not obsessive about the house, but it would be nice if they were to pick up some of the slack.  I guess that just shows me what doing for others does, makes them do less for themselves.
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One thing I am grateful for though is that even though I'm tapering and don't feel well, I do not have any cravings or urges to take more than what I've set for myself for my daily taper.

It would be so much harder if I was trying to taper and then having cravings to take more.  I'm just so sick and tired of these medications negatively impacting my life that I don't want anything more to do with them.

I'm looking forward to the end of my taper, and really getting on the road to recovery.

I have to remember the things I have to be grateful for.  My family does love me and care about me even if they are not good house-keepers.  I am in a safe environment from which to taper.  I'm not in Jail.  I can have nutritious food to eat and drink.  It is a beautfiul day.

I really do have so many things to be grateful for, I have not too much reason to complain.

One of my problems is that I'm a perfectionist and I want other people to be one too, especially the ones I live with, LOL.

So what if the house is messy for a few weeks, it's not the end of the world.  The "House-Keeping Police" will not come to arrest me.

So what if I don't do anything but watch videos for a couple of weeks while I'm tapering and getting off this medication.  I have certainly spent enough years "working my *** off," to accomplish my goals.

My Daughter loves me and thinks I'm a great Mom, (she is 13) she knows what I'm going through and I talk to her about the fact that there is a history of Alcohoism and Drug Abuse on my side of the family, and to be careful about drinking or using drugs.

I have friends who care about me and what happens to me.  I have this Forum where I can post, and people reply to me.

I have this day, and even though it may be hard in some ways, it is a day which has many good things in it too.  Like "Dark Chocolate," "Hugs from my husband and daughter," "Laughter, at myself."

I have to learn to look for the Bright Points in each day and hold on tight to them.  I have to keep telling myself I am a strong person, and that "this too shall pass."

I went outside and watered my garden, and the sun was warm and the sky was blue.
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It's very important to be grateful!  Lists of gratitude are good to keep making everyday.  This is going to be better.  I promise you that.  I am a perfectionist too.  WAY big perfectionist!  I was walking around my house, barely able to move, but I was able to yell about crap being all over the place!!! LOL  During WD, everything seems like a huge drama-deal!  

One thing that I want to caution you on.....The valium!  Be very careful.  I have switched addictions several times, and WD is one of the things that can lead to that.  Sometimes we will do anything to stop how we feel during WD!  I know where you are coming from right now.  I really do.  But you have to be careful, and protect yourself, ok?

You are doing great!  Keep up the hard work.  It does pay off!
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I promise you, and myself and everyone else, I will be careful with the Valium.  I was already on it 10mg at bedtime, and although my Dr. says I can go up to 4 10mg tablets a day, I've only gone up one 10mg tablet at bedtime.

I take 2 at bedtime and I will not take anymore than that regardless of how bad I feel.  After I get off the Vicodin, I will start tapering, very slowly off the Valium.

It's actually being a Drug Addict that got me started on the Valium.  I do have anxiety problems, but when I was going off and on Vicodin for several years I was always having more anxiety.

I know that once I'm free of the Vicodin, I will be able to free of the Valium.  Fortunately for me, Valium is not a drug I've every abused.

I'm a "one drug" addict.  Just Vicodin.  I don't drink, and I haven't abused any other drugs.

Thank you for your warning and for caring about me to give me that warning.  My ears are wide open.

My Dr. gave me Klonopin also, but I am not going take that at all, because I was told that is more addictive and harder to get off of than the Valium.

I am going to try the Low Dose of Seroques to see if it helps for sleep, but I don't have it yet.

So far, I have been able to get a few hours sleep everynight.  At least enough so I don't feel like I'm totally losing my mind.

I'm also being good with my Nutrition.  When I get up in the Morning I mix a Water Bottle with part Prune Juice and Benefiber (because narcotics cause constipation,) I put in a Scoop of this "Green Stuff, LOL" that I got from the Healt hFood Store which has alot of Vitamins and Minerals, is Vegan, nothing artificial, I also put in a Teaspoon of the "Inositol" and some liquid "Silica" which is good for people with  Arthritis and joint problems.  I add "Distilled Water," and shake vigorously and that is my "Morning Meal."

With it I take my Omega 3's, my  Vitamin B Complex, and Gaba.  For some reason the Gaba does seem to help me with my Anxiety.  I also take my Calcium and Magnesium, and a  Sublingual B.

I do the same thing for my "Dinner."  I don't really feel like eating food right now, so I think I've pretty much taking care of myself for my  Vitamin and such.  I tried an Amino Acid Complex but I'm very sensitive to the L-Tyrosine and every time I've tried it, I get bad Anxiety, so I'm not really taking any aminos.

I eat at least 1 banana every day and some dark chocolate.
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Well, it seems like you have your bases covered.  Remember hot baths or showers are good for calming anxiety.  Valerian Root helps some people as well.  If you are getting a few hours of sleep, you are ahead of the game.  A lot of people don't sleep at all while tapering and WDing.  When will you be done with your taper?
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Well, today I'm down to 30mg total, so that is 6 pills.  I'll stay on this for a couple of days, then down to 25 for 2 days, and so on.

I do a "every six hour dosing" and I'll cut the tablets as needed.

I know 30g doesn't sound like much and alot of people could just stop from here, but I have a pretty sensitive nervous system, so the slower I can go the better.

I imagine by the end of this week I'll be done, and then we'll see how it goes from there.

I have Valerian  Root, but haven't tried it yet.  I'm very sensitive to side effects from things.  So I'm only trying one thing at a time, so if I feel a reaction I'll know what it's from.

Tonight I'm trying L-Theanine.  Tomorrow I'll try the Valerian.
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sounds like u r a smart person...going to ur dr is a wonderful and very intelligent thing to do.  He can help u with this

ur dose is not huge//u will do this//seen folks who pop 800 mgs a day plus some..and as a rule it is Not the narcotic-like portion of trams that gets folks..it is the anti-depressant quality that nails them to the wall

Tapering down is the way to go as someone on an AD like lexapro or zoloft for yrs....tapering trams is safest even tho at ur dose i would doubt seizures would be an issue..but safety and being comfortable is important
I have never been a tram fan//they made me nervous as I do not do well with extra seratonin..didnt respond to seratonin ADs like lexapro either..couldnt sleep.  U need to look at any other medications u r taking for seratonin release as many increase seratonin that u would not suspect.   Let ur dr know everything u r taking.  He may can RX u sumpin too halp the anxiety that is safer than trams.

good luck but for some reason I sense u mean business
keep us posted
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I do mean business.  I do not want my life to jacked up by any da** drug.  I'm mad at myself that I didn't look into this medication before I started on it.  In the beginning it seemed too good to be true.  My pain, gone, my energy level, great, now 3 months later I'm struggling to get off it instead of living the life I want to be living.

I watched my Brother die because of drugs and alcohol, I've seen the destructiveness of it in my family of origin.  I do not want to bring that demon into my family.  I have a 33 year old son who is married and doing well in his life.  I have a 13 year old daughter that needs her mother.  She is turning into a teenager and that's normal, she's getting a little mouthy sometimes, but she is smart and bright, and I will not lay down and die over some stupid drug.

I will be so much more careful in the future about what I put in my body.

I have read now about the anti-depressant quality, but the worst is the Anxiety.  I don't really know anything about the Seratonin aspect, and I don't think I'm on anything with it.

I take Levothroid for my Thyroid, I'm on Hormone Replacement Therapy and that's pretty much it, except for sometimes  I take Flexeril if  I have a muscle spasm, or Zantac for my stomach, sometimes phenergan for nauseau, I have a sensitive stomach.

I am trying to keep in my mind to be good to myself.  If a friend was going through something like this, I would give them as much comfort and support as I could. I need to treat myself like I would a friend.  No judgement, no guilt, just love and support.

I will be happy when I am off and away from this drug.
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You are doing great, you will be free of all this cr*p before you know it.   For nausea, dramamine, (since you mentioned you had some), should work as well as phenergan.

You won't need the valerian while you are still on the valium.  Valerian also acts on the GABA receptors & may conflict with or over-enhance the valium.

Now is definitely the time to banish your inner Martha Stewart, also never hurts for the family to see how much you usually do.  I have noticed that tramadol seems to suit those of us with a perfectionist streak, at least in the beginning.  I loved being able to work at the computer for hours & remain relatively pain free & I think it takes time for our bodies to relearn our natural limits.

Don't forget to celebrate even the tiniest of improvements.

Best wishes, M
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Well, I decided I was done.  It's been 12 hours since my last dose and I DON'T WANT ANYMORE!!!!  I got tired of that taper.  I wasn't getting anything accomplished any way.

The lower I went the harder it was for me to sleep, and last night I couldn't sleep, so I said to heck with it, II'm just kidding.

Now at 12 hours, I feel so sick, and I have this weird creepy feeling all over my back.  That's what's really bugging me.   I feel too sick to be up, but laying in bed is bad too.
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I so remember those feelings.  This may seem counter-intuitive but because the tramadol withdrawal has potentially put you into benzo withdrawal due to the cross reactivity, (even though you haven't decreased your dose of valium), you may want to try the increased dose of valium, as suggested by your doctor.

When you are free of the tramadol withdrawals, you will be tapering off the valium very slowly anyway so, (given that you don't have any addiction issues with valium),  a small increase in dose won't add significant time tot the taper.

On the natural side, many swear by frequent epsom salts baths, where the only side effect is prune skin.

You are truly on your way now.

Hugs, M
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I am feeling ya pain. I was prescribed Ultram 14 years ago because my dr said it was non habit forming, and he new that 98% of my family are alcoholics. I refused percs and he gave me the ultram. I wish I could turn back time. Good luck
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I did do that with the Valium because it was really awful.  The other stuff I can stand, body aches, etc. I can take 4 Valium a day, and I'm going to do that over the next few days until the worst of the Detox is over. and then go back down, and eventually get off the Valium too.

I'm also going to try the Seroquel tonight for sleeping.  Same thing though, only a few days.

By next week this time I could be feeling better and on my way back to living.  Hooray.

Singha,

I'm sorry to hear you got caught up in this mess too.  I hope you can get off it and get on to a better life.
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I truly hope you are feeling better, Madshadow...it takes a while, I'm totally surprised I feel as good as I do...you're going to get there, I know you are...If I can help please let me  know..I at times get caught up in work and don't always get in here but if you send me a PM message my phone tells me I have one.


Jim
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Thanks for the support.  It's day 2 of no drugs, and  I feel like I've been run over by a truck, but I just have to hang in there for a couple of more days and I should start feelihg better.
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O.K., I'm going to complain now.  My back is killing me, my stomach feels like it's on fire,  my whole body feels sick, and I've got some kind of weird cough that doesn't stop.  When I get up I feel like I'm going to pass out, but laying down isn't any better, cause my mind starts whirling.

Right now it's whirling on the "supposed" friend of my daughter.  This girl has done some snaky stuff to my daughter, however, my daughter has gotten over it and moved on.  I should take some wisdom from my daughter.  However, I have not gotten over it, and I want to call this girls father, who's a creep from the get go, and tell him what I think about him and his Snake of a daughter.  But I won't, because it will make my daughter feel bad, I just am sooo pissed off at these people.  I can't go into the wholestory, but briefly, this girl is a little older than my daughter and tried to get my daughter to believe that she (my daughter) was bi-sexual.

Last year, all summer, this girl practically live at our house and I had no clue what was going on until my daughter told me that she was "Bi-Sexual."  So, o.k., if that's how my daughter feels, hell she wasn't even 13 yet, but she is very mature for her age.  Mature in wisdom, and the way she sees the world, things like that.

So I thought and thought about the situation, and I told them that her friend could be over, but no closed doors.  In the meantime, her friend is trying to "Put the Make" on her.  One day my Daughter came out of her room with a big hickey on her neck.  When I asked her about it, she said her friend did it.  Then she started talking to me how "her friend" was trying to get her to try "Intimate things" and that she didn't like it.  I told the friend to knock it off, but she still kept coming after my daughter.

I decided to go to the girl's parents and talk about the situation, and that turned out to be one of the worst things I could have done.  The parents totally freaked.  The Mom has a couple of Gay Sisters in Florida who run a Soap shop so I thought it wouldn't be so bad to tell them.  NOT

So more drama and more drama, and my daughter decided she is not bi-sexual and breaks up with this girl who ran home to her Daddy and said I don't know what, because all of a sudden my daughter wasn't a part of the "Crowd" anymore, which really hurt her.

Finally, everything calmed down, and this girl got a "boyfriend."  Last week this boy calls up my daughter and is berating her for breaking up with the girl, and how it's my daughter's fault that this girl has problems.

What kind of S*** that is, I don't even know.  You know I went into my Mother Bear Mode and I was ready to Kick Some A**.  The Girlfriend, the Girlfriend's Boyfriend, and the Girls father, since he also blames my daughter for his daughter being hurt.

No-one knows the real truth but me, and my daughter doesn't want me to say anything about it, so I won't.

Helps to write about it though, get's it out of my mind.
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Oh my!  Try not to do anything right now!!!  Just take some deep breaths, a hot bath and chill.....I know it's hard! : (

Try to get negative stuff off your mind.  Concentrate on something positive if you can.  Watch something on TV that is mindless!!!  

What are you doing to help your backache?  Advil?  Heating pad?  
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LOL, don't worry, I'm just spoutin off steam.  It really was kind of a funny thing to deal with.  I'm not homophobic in the least, I mean, I grew up in San Francisco, back in the day they called us "Fag Hags," LOL.

It was just that of all the things my then 12 year old daughter could have told me, being be-sexual wasn't even one I had thought off.  Of course there's always pregnancy, I guess.  I didn't really believe it when she told me, I know her too well, and when she told me her and her girlfriend were in love, I supported their Friendship 100%, just not anything physical.  Heck, I wouldn't let a 13 year old boy be alone in her room with the door shut.  Not that I don't trust my daughter, but I know things can happen, and I'm not looking to be a young grandma either.

I just could not believe that Dad of hers when  I told her parents.  I thought it would be the right thing to do because I was afraid if her parents found out and then knew that I had known they could sue me for child molestation or something.  You know with some people you never know and things are very different now with children.  Even with the door open I know they kissed, and who knows what else.  That's her private business.

This girl was always being moody though, playing mind games with my daughter like "if you really cared/loved me you'd do this" some sexual thing, and then she'd start sulking and be all rejecting to my daughter, when my daughter didn't want to do it.

Where does a 13 year old girl learn to play these mind games?  Well, before my daughter she had a "boyfriend" who dumped her, and it really hurt her feelings, so she turns around and does the same thing to my daughter.  Hey, don't get me wrong, my daughter had her part to play, and she's no saint, but so many times she would come to me crying and asking why this girl was treating her this way.  Her and my daughter are both Artists, and there was a sort of competition there, like "whose the best kind of thing," and for a while the girl was better, but not now.  Art is my daughter's life.  She wants to direct movies, has several up on You-Tube, and is in a Film School this summer.

Her Dad thinks I'm crazy, and I think he's an A**H***, an the poor girl is really messed up.  In my home we talk about everything. there pretty much aren't any secrets.  Just like in the program, in a family too, the secrets will make you sick.  we don't all sit down at the table to talk about certain things, things that are private to my  daughter that she wouldn't want her Dad to hear.  But anything is open for discussion.

She knows what's happening to me know, that I'm detoxing off this drug.  I don't believe in making up stories to cover up.  "Oh, Mommy's sick."  Kids aren't stupid, but if you treat them like they are, well just look out when they become teenagers.

Like I said, it's pretty much all simmered down now, and I'm simmered down too.

My daughter learned a Life Lesson, and it won't be her first, but she knows she can talk to me about anything, and I'll always be there for her.

Well, I'll stop preaching now Tramhater. LOL

Oh Advil for the backache.  I feel a little better this afternoon.
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Avatar_f_tn
Wow......WOW!  Sounds like you are a great mom!  We always had secrets in my family when I was growing up.  My mom and I are close now, but we weren't back then.  Secrets do keep people sick, but you are right about some things being private.  To each their own, I guess.  Sounds like you and your daughter have a good relationship, and that is what will matter most to her!

You weren't preaching either!  Sometimes it feels good to just get it OUT!  And put a heating pad on your back.  It will help!!! : )
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1349329_tn?1276988802
Wow, I must be getting better faster than I thought.  One of my friends came by this evening with all her dogs, and I went to the Dog Park with her.  Then when I came home I had an "urge" that I hadn't had for awhile, so I took advantage of my poor husband.  LOL

I definitely feel relaxed now.  LOL

Life is so funny sometimes.

I'm a writer, well not professional, but I swear  I can write Jingles and poems and stories, anything.

Anyway,  I used to date some Pilots when I was young and learned about the "Mile High Club."

So I'm writing this Rap Song called, "The Mile High Club."

It goes like this:

THE MILE HIGH CLUB

I’m in the Mile High Club
(I know you wish you were in it)
I’m in the Mile High Club
(You better believe it)
I’m flyin in the Air 100 miles up
In the Back Seat with my  Girlies
Snugglin Up
The Pilot’s up front, getting down with the Plane
While me and my Girlies are getting ready to Play
(Refrain I’m in the Mile High Club)
It’s getting warm back here,
We start to shed some clothes
I feel the smooth smooth skin
Smell the perfume with my nose
My lady get’s on me and starts to rockin
I can feel my Candy Stick meltin in her Pocket
She’s rubbing and rocking, getting ready to explode
I can feel it cumin, and I’m ready to roll
My other girl is hot, watchin  all the action
Soon as my one girl get’s off, the other's ready for action
(Refrain I'm in The Mile High  Club)

Hey, I know, I know, it needs some work, that's just my first rough draft

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1349329_tn?1276988802
Oh man, I don't know what's happening, but I am really excited about my life.  I only got a couple of hours sleep last night, and I still feel sick from the Detox, but my brain is just going crazy with all the creative projects I want to do.

I had noticed while I was on that med that I didn't really have any interest in my creativity, but I figured it was probably burn out because I have so many responsibilites, NOT.

As you can see from the post above, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, but my brain is totally waking up.


There are so many things I want to do with my life. Paint, write, Music, and most of all, I want to give back to the world in some way.  I want to help peope get their lives back.

I want to start a Non-Profit organization, I want to have a Childrens Clothing Exchange program, I want to use my Art to bring people together.

I just don't know how to go about it yet.
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1349329_tn?1276988802
Well, no sleep last night, and I'm feeling sick.
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hi, girl... it seems you are enjoying your creative self :)

sorry that you are feeling sick now.
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1349329_tn?1276988802
Well, I was there for a moment.  Now I feel really sick, and I probably did something stupid too.  I took 2 muscle relaxers today so I could get some sleep.

This thing is a monster for taking away your sleep. I went to one of my regular meetings this morning and one of my friends was there, this guy, and he always cracks me up.

The worst of the withdrawals are already over, I just feel sick and no sleep.
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1349329_tn?1276988802
Day 4 off those pills.  One day closer to getting my mind back.  BTW have you seen it anywhere?
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Avatar_m_tn
How much time?  I was on just 50 mg for three months for broken ribs and frozen shoulder.  Tapered back in five days and felt crappy the next three months -- wondered if I had chronic fatigue and then found out in early Nov. that a doctor had given me way too much thyroid.

without thinking about effects I started Tramadol for sore shoulders before tennis -- felt so great -- stayed on -- up to 75 mg (smal dose) for six months.  Thyroid is o.k. now and figured I'd like to see what my body is like without -- wow.  Trying to taper off - 2 weeks now and 4 of the days with none, but when I take just a partial Tram, 20-25 I feel "normal" which is great.

what is the disadvantage of staying on Tram long term?  I'm considering going back to it.  You all know why -- life is hard, even though I try to live it a day at a time and do normal things.  Sitting make it worse.  If I keep moving like an occasional day of gardening I feel a lot better.  Thanks,  I hope I can figure out how to find this again. BEAB
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