Aa
Tramadol to help withdrawals?
Daughter is on day 3 of detox. Still in a lot of pain. She does have a prescription for tramadol so yesterday we did give her one every 8 hours. She is determined to go to work today...wants one Tramadol to get her thru. should we give it to her?
So great to hear your positive story about Sub! Sounds like you are one of the lucky ones who found a good doctor, that makes such a big difference!
People, by nature, are more inclined to share negative stories than positive ones. That's why you tend to see more of the horror stories, than the success stories.
If the clinics were made to do things RIGHT, like the one I worked in, and the one you go to, I think you'd find a lot more success stories. Some of the negative experiences also come from people trying to manage Sub themselves, which of course is never a good idea and rarely ends well.
I definitely don't want to hijack the OPs thread with this discussion, but I think it was important for her to hear some of the positives about Sub too. I just hope her daughter can find a better clinic.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
People, by nature, are more inclined to share negative stories than positive ones. That's why you tend to see more of the horror stories, than the success stories.
If the clinics were made to do things RIGHT, like the one I worked in, and the one you go to, I think you'd find a lot more success stories. Some of the negative experiences also come from people trying to manage Sub themselves, which of course is never a good idea and rarely ends well.
I definitely don't want to hijack the OPs thread with this discussion, but I think it was important for her to hear some of the positives about Sub too. I just hope her daughter can find a better clinic.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
i normally dont post much but i hac to say something every1 post horror stories but u dont hear about the good 1s im on sub my dr is a recovering addict and he is there to help fellow addicts he requires group therepy and drug screens i coulda very well been on my way to jail or death til i found my dr. subs r not evil i live a clean life now i even quit smoking weed which i never thought i would do im also about to attend my first n/a meeting i never wanted to go now i do altho subs r opiates. my thought process is dif then on pills . if this is offensive to any1 im sorry but people need to post some positives about sub. if u hav a good dr its a great thing-thank u nurse girl
You're so wise sarah! What a great point! Her daughter is an adult, and the more control she has over her decisions and actions, the better. Along with addiction comes enabling. It's very hard for people to distinguish between enabling and "helping".
COMMUNITY LEADER
Be careful on how much you do for your daughter right now. Let her take the bull by the horns. This has to be her recovery. I know it is hard to not want to take care of her but she is an adult, an addict and only she can change this up.
I certainly understand what everyone is saying, OP, your daughter has come this far, it would be a shame to stop now and go on Subs. But, like you said, she's an adult and will make her own decisions. You've done a great job trying to encourage her and lead her to the right path. Don't be hard on yourself.
I DO have to say, and I know that the sub debate is one that isn't going away too soon...that not all Sub clinics are bad, and for some people, Subs have allowed addicts to get clean. A good sub clinic will work very hard to treat the whole patient, not just hand out scripts. They will incorporate therapy into the program, they require a drug test at each visit, and they work from day ONE to start the process of planning for life after sub, including a taper right from the start.
You could argue it's trading one drug for another sure...but I would rather my loved one be taking Subs than heroin. People HAVE had success on Subs.
One of my good friends works in a sub clinic. We are both RNs. A few years ago, I helped out in the clinic part time. Lucky for the people going there...it was one like I described above. Therapy was required. Patients had to do a tox screen at EVERY visit, including a dip for the sub itself.
The doc was fabulous, spent a LOT of time with the patients, easing their worries about coming off the subs, and she started right from the beginning...working on the taper. She was big on making sure people were on the LOWEST necessary dose. She took people down VERY slowly, and was always willing to listen if a patient was going too fast for their own comofort level. If patients weren't compliant with their therapy, then they were reminded that they would be dropped from the program. The doc was compassionate and willing to allow one or tweo screw ups, but she always said she would rather have patients there that were willing to do the work, than to have someone take up a spot who just wanted the sub.
She told her patients from day one that subs are just a TOOL, one TOOL in the recovery process, and that subs aren't to be used as a way to avoid discomfort, she was very honest that there WOULD be some discomfort involved, both after the induction dose, and when coming off. Her goal was to MINIMIZE that discomfort so the pts could function on the highest level possible...and not have to have severe w/d's to the point where relapse was inevitible, just to avoid w/d's. She told them that some discomfort was necessary.
My point is...while subs aren't for everyone, it isn't always a BAD thing. I wish that all clinics were as good as the one I helped out in. I know that isn't the case. But, if a person manages to find a good clinic, then recovery with subs is entirely possible. Also, the "horror" stories are a result of people not being properly tapered off Sub. They are tapered too quickly, dosage dropped too rapidly. I can say that I saw a lot of patients succeed at coming off subs at that clinic. Just like any other med...there will always be the horror stories...it's important for people to allow themselves to have their own experience. Ironically too, some of the biggest anti-sub preachers are people who have NO experience with it, either personally, or exposure to it from other people.
Again, I agree that the OP's daughter is taking a step backwards as far as she's come, but we cannot assume she is going to fail. I would be happier if the OP told us they were finding a better clinic, because any clinic that "okays" a patient buying sub off the street?? Awful.
Anyways, I'll step off my soapbox. Don't get me wrong, I totally get and respect the differing opinions about sub, and sadly, the reason there ARE the horror stories out there is because too many crappy docs get into the sub business. That's of course because it is highly lucrative. The docs just see dollar signs. That doesn't make for a good sub doctor. I just wanted to share my experience with subs. Too bad not all clinics are like that.
OP..Praying for your daughter. Truth is, some people just CAN'T withstand the w/d's. This has been evident with her from the beginning. She has REALLY struggled with it. If she has decided on this, and you can't change her mind, the best thing you can do (besides looking for a better clinic)...is to just continue to support her and make SURE she starts right away in therapy, setting up aftercare, going to meetings...etc. The harder she works at it, the better chance she'll have. If she just thinks she's going to take the Sub and go back to her life without addressing all of the issues behind addiction, then yes, she WILL fail.
Thanks all, for listening. :0)
I DO have to say, and I know that the sub debate is one that isn't going away too soon...that not all Sub clinics are bad, and for some people, Subs have allowed addicts to get clean. A good sub clinic will work very hard to treat the whole patient, not just hand out scripts. They will incorporate therapy into the program, they require a drug test at each visit, and they work from day ONE to start the process of planning for life after sub, including a taper right from the start.
You could argue it's trading one drug for another sure...but I would rather my loved one be taking Subs than heroin. People HAVE had success on Subs.
One of my good friends works in a sub clinic. We are both RNs. A few years ago, I helped out in the clinic part time. Lucky for the people going there...it was one like I described above. Therapy was required. Patients had to do a tox screen at EVERY visit, including a dip for the sub itself.
The doc was fabulous, spent a LOT of time with the patients, easing their worries about coming off the subs, and she started right from the beginning...working on the taper. She was big on making sure people were on the LOWEST necessary dose. She took people down VERY slowly, and was always willing to listen if a patient was going too fast for their own comofort level. If patients weren't compliant with their therapy, then they were reminded that they would be dropped from the program. The doc was compassionate and willing to allow one or tweo screw ups, but she always said she would rather have patients there that were willing to do the work, than to have someone take up a spot who just wanted the sub.
She told her patients from day one that subs are just a TOOL, one TOOL in the recovery process, and that subs aren't to be used as a way to avoid discomfort, she was very honest that there WOULD be some discomfort involved, both after the induction dose, and when coming off. Her goal was to MINIMIZE that discomfort so the pts could function on the highest level possible...and not have to have severe w/d's to the point where relapse was inevitible, just to avoid w/d's. She told them that some discomfort was necessary.
My point is...while subs aren't for everyone, it isn't always a BAD thing. I wish that all clinics were as good as the one I helped out in. I know that isn't the case. But, if a person manages to find a good clinic, then recovery with subs is entirely possible. Also, the "horror" stories are a result of people not being properly tapered off Sub. They are tapered too quickly, dosage dropped too rapidly. I can say that I saw a lot of patients succeed at coming off subs at that clinic. Just like any other med...there will always be the horror stories...it's important for people to allow themselves to have their own experience. Ironically too, some of the biggest anti-sub preachers are people who have NO experience with it, either personally, or exposure to it from other people.
Again, I agree that the OP's daughter is taking a step backwards as far as she's come, but we cannot assume she is going to fail. I would be happier if the OP told us they were finding a better clinic, because any clinic that "okays" a patient buying sub off the street?? Awful.
Anyways, I'll step off my soapbox. Don't get me wrong, I totally get and respect the differing opinions about sub, and sadly, the reason there ARE the horror stories out there is because too many crappy docs get into the sub business. That's of course because it is highly lucrative. The docs just see dollar signs. That doesn't make for a good sub doctor. I just wanted to share my experience with subs. Too bad not all clinics are like that.
OP..Praying for your daughter. Truth is, some people just CAN'T withstand the w/d's. This has been evident with her from the beginning. She has REALLY struggled with it. If she has decided on this, and you can't change her mind, the best thing you can do (besides looking for a better clinic)...is to just continue to support her and make SURE she starts right away in therapy, setting up aftercare, going to meetings...etc. The harder she works at it, the better chance she'll have. If she just thinks she's going to take the Sub and go back to her life without addressing all of the issues behind addiction, then yes, she WILL fail.
Thanks all, for listening. :0)
Suboxone is only perpetuating the issue. My brothers was on them for 6 months and eventually went back to Heroin. The issue is they are substituting one for another and not realizing the real issues underlying the drug abuse. The saddest part is that these clinics are giving these kids easy fixes with the Suboxone when the truth in the matter is, the withdrawal horrors are one of the strongest deterrents to pick up again. I am also seeking support from NA and putting the work in to find new ways to cope on life's terms. Have you suggested she reach out on here or that she read posts in reference to Suboxone? Does she show any interest in getting involved with NA? Keep nagging, keep suggesting, keep trying! You never know if this will be the time that she will hear you.
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