When I went thru professional detox...

[carr]

I was reading some posts here and have read that lots of ppl continue to have pain after they are off the meds.  When I was in detox, being a street junkie trying to kick heroin, k-4's(dilaudid), crack and cocaine...my lower back was killing me.  At first I thought I had a kidney infection, they tested me and said nope ur kidneys are fine.  The doctor then said that one side effect of taking presc. pain pills is back pain.  I've never had back problems before. I tell ya I felt like I had a knife inserted in my lower spine.  He said take 800mg's of ibuprophen for the pain.  I did and it helped...He also said if you have sleeping problems that those would go away in time. I call it "dope insomnia". Appropiately named I think.  I take advil pm's or an otc sleep aid and that works sometimes.  Not always tho...grrr.
I hope this helps someone out there.  Loratabs can help back pain as well as cause it. It might be cause its in the opiate family.  I dont know. Take care and keep on keeping on...its an everyday battle and I have run into some bumps lately...working thru them...stay focused and stay clean best u can....there is no dumb question that the right person cant answer...

carrie

[allaboutmary]

Thanks for the info.  Stay clean.   Mary

[jen_]

Hello carr,

First of all congrats for your efforts to get away from it.

I am new to this site.  I came here seeking support and advice as my boyfriend takes heroin.  I myself haven’t used any drugs at all.  I have been reading books on the issue but I believe that the better source of knowledge is one who had the experience.

He has tried twice to quit going to a detox but he relapsed after 6 months the first time, after a couple of weeks the second.

I try not to push him through rejecting words – once that I did so it proved out a disaster.  Yet I try to talk about the drug issue with him and as a matter of fact I am amused at how ‘down to earth’ he can be talking about it but at the same time too weak to quit.

He has been taking heroin for 10 years now; he is 28.

He says he wants to quit and have a normal life but his efforts stop there.

What would you recommend I should do?  How does one reach to the decision of giving up?  He says there’s no way for him to give up unless his full of it.

And a couple more questions.  To my knowledge heroin does not make you violent.  He had been violent twice or thrice in the past.  It was like a nightmare cause at one moment he was OK and then in just a second his face would change – you could actually see this change – and then he would talk about things that had never happened ending up being violent.  As I said I am completely unaware of the effects of drugs and the different kinds of pills etc but I suppose he must had been on pills those times, am I wrong?

Second, when he is off the drug how should I treat him?  I understand he is in pain and try to massage him but he … well, when he has no heroin he gets aggressive and gets irritated so easily that all I can do is shut up.

I want to be there for him and help him get over it.  I would do anything to see him well.  Honestly.  I offered to quit from my work and go some place with him for as long as he may need but…  

Thanks for your time,

Jenny

[Pleth]

I was a young street junkie, too. I just posted a whining blog about my withdraws off pain pills but let me tell you, this is NOTHNG like kicking dope. I did Detox, treatment the whole ball of wax. Bottom line, it will take a huge about of work to get off the junk. As bad as the detox is, a person gets used to having a flood of "feel good" in their brain and that is harder to give up. It's like smoking but much worse. You brain stops producing dopeimine (sp?) because the heroin is doing a fine job of it. Take away the heroin and the brain is producing nothing. My mood swings were so severe for months after coming off that stuff I lost a lot of those who loved me. Also, my whole life changed. I had to stay busy, became a workaholic, just kinda turned into someone else. I was a different person when I was high. Had different outlooks on life, acted different so those that were friends were thinking Pleth was this way. Take away my dope and I was someone totally different. Best I can say is hang in there but put no expectations on anything. Relapse, unfortunately is most common and lots cannot get through it. Some do. I did. He can. Just imagine if God told you that from now on you could no longer eat any of your favorite foods, drink coffee, wear any of your favorite clothes and had to start speaking a new language and oh you;re goning to feel misrable for a few months....Takes some getting used to but it can be done.

[Curls]

You need to look at how this is effecting you.  You also need to assume he is exactly as he is right now, and will not change, and then decide if this is the relationship you want.  Even if he talks down to earth, every relationship clean or not is based on who the person is, not who we wish we could help them become.  There's something making you give up pieces of yourself to be dealing with this.  That's the area for you to get help on and look at.  You may choose to stay with him, but you need to be more concious of how it's effecting you and your life first.  Have you lived with violence before?  It is completey unneccessary.  Most people live without violence in their home lives.  If you are married to someone who develops this illness and needs support is entirely different than choosing a life with an heavy duty addict (street drug, not accidental pain killer addiction) through his entire formative years of gaining adult independence (18-28).

This might all sound harsh, but I hope it gives you some ideas to think about.   You sound thoughtful and warm, and I want the best for you.  If you think you can't have more for yourself, you can!  

This is a great site to keep talking (even if you disagree with me in particular.)

[jen_]

Hi and thanks for your post.

I have thought of what you are telling me and yes, I shall agree with you speaking in general.  But I do not think he is a violent person.  As I said, knowing him and how sensitive he is makes me think his violent behavior was a result of pills maybe.

How this relationship affects me, huh?  Oh yeah, it affects me a lot.  A few months ago in the worst way!  I spent sometimes having nightmares and found my self in need for a pill in order to get to sleep.  I am one of those who avoid taking any medicine so those 3-4 pills that I got was too much for my standards.

I had panic attacks a couple of times as well.  These before August that he went to the rehab where he stayed only for 30 days.  We spent a month away from one another due to a fight we had but we are back together again.

I may be proven wrong in the future (I hope not) but he has given many reasons for me to believe in him and want to stand by him.  As I said it was and still is a choice.  I knew of his problem before I met him.  It was me who tried to make him open up and talk about it otherwise I doubt he would had mentioned anything.  And I did so only because I believe deep inside me that he can quit with help.  He had no one to stand by him in that.  I offered and I can only hope I can be helpful to him.

In the past I used to have feelings of guilt for not being 'efficient' but now I know that I do what I can and it is up to him to take advantage of it or not.

Apart from going to a psychologist who really has helped me with this so far I am very grateful for my friends who show understanding and support me in any way they can.  Not all, but those few who do so are real help to me.

So, I consider myself lucky for having them.  I consider myself lucky that my family is always there for me and for sure I consider myself lucky for not being DEPENDENT on drugs or anything.  Having said these I would consider myself an a$%# if I didn't offer my help to one who has asked for it (excuse my french).  It would be unacceptable.

If the relationship works out fine or not is something I don't think of that much.  For me to see him well is priority number one.

I appreciate your input a lot.  And as a matter of fact I need such advice ('you should take care of yourself') a lot cause it gives me strength and helps me put some barriers when I feel I need them.

Having such words in mind I just take it slowly slowly trying to combine all I have to the best I can.

I hope it works fine.
I will let you know!

Jenny

[Curls]

Hi,  I'll add a couple thoughts...  I hope they don't sound harsh, but I think they are worth putting into the mix of this tough situation.

Most domestic violence involves drinking or drugs.  It's not necessarily the cause, but it can be.  What you are dealing with is his being violent.  His being his being non-violent if off drugs isn't the reality that you are dealing with.

I agree if I saw someone in pain I'd try to help them, and have done so beyond what others might.  If I'm close to them I give even more.  I wouldn't give myself as a girlfriend in order to help someone.  I would give as a very supportive friend.  Unless the girlfriend part is about my wanting to be in the relationship for myself, then I'm effectively lieing or manipulating what a girlfriend relationship is.  When there's lie or manipulation, it doesn't work and is harmful, even when intended to be otherwise.  It doesn't work for either party and isn't fair to him, any more than it is to you.

Addiction is a complex and powerful thing.  It's important to have a full understanding of it and all it's dynamics in order to make the best decision for yourself.  There are several reasons to start a relationship with an addicted person, the third being the most common.
1.  Poor sense that one has worth and ablity to get into a relationship, especially unless the other person needs them this much.  
2.  Working out some prior experience in one's life.  Either the same one, or an opposite of it, or some way to have a relationship that can't work.
3.  Being a good person, and not realizing how bad things can be.  Perfectly emotionally healthy people get themselves into things because they can't grasp the depth of the problem they are walking into or the lack of full range of caring some people are able to give.  They are too nice, and don't understand how other dynamics of other people can work, that are a lot less nice.  
Usually this goes along with thoughts to themselves that aren't accurate, like "love conquerors all", "this person will die without me", "I'm responsible if this person dies because I leave", "they really want to change and just need someone there to help them", and so on..  
4.  In extremely rare cases, it's the right match, and the right people at the right time, and together the addiction drops away as their new life falls into place.

You said he wouldn't have opened up if you hadn't proded.  This isn't a person ready to change and committed to change on his own.  He likes having you around, so why turn you away?  Unless you get too intent on getting you to change - then they'll be a fight, (but it's not even likely to be directly about that.)

Some tough questions to ask yourself...  If the situation were reversed how would he be handling your addiction and a relationship with you?  Do you know, have you asked?  Can you talk freely about the addiction or is it often the elephant in the room?  Would he put up with the approach to violence from you if the violence was coming from you?  This relationship is affecting you seriously physically.  How does he feel about causing you great harm, and what actions is he willling to take to stop that from happening?  In other words, is he wanting to fix things so you can be better, as much as you want to fix them so he can be better?  If not, then this is a one way relationship, and not worthy of future investment.  (It just can not lead to a true happy marriage, and a giving person needs to be matched with a more giving person or it's trouble.)  

Well there are some more thoughts.  I'm not suggesting I know what's right for you and him.  It depends on the situation, and it takes being in or near it to know.  However, I would hope that you keep your eyes wide open when looking at addiction, and don't do yourself the disservice of not fulling understanding what you are dealing with.  

One last though...It's admirable that you want to help him.  However, there are other people out there who need help too, and this may not be the one that can best benefit from what you give.  It may be that someone else is missing out on you.   For all you have to give, I hope you find the pathway that serves the best, whether it's with him or with someone else.

Well, I've certainly written enough.  Please do let me know how it goes.
  Cheri  

[natalile]

Two totaly different people. But both been torn with addiction.
Jen yes your right you cannot turn your back on someone who's asked for help. I hope your ready for the kind of help he's gonna need. I've been a heroin addict for 13 years ( nearly 14 ). But i'am fighting the battle EVERY F**CING day.
& it's so hard i've spent half my life an addict. I've had all addiction's smack, crack, benzo's, methadone, even pot. But i will be smoking pot along time to come yet 1 thing at a time. I have also had some of these addiction's all at once, Now i'm addicted to methadone, benzo'z & have been clean 29 day's out of 31 on heroin. That's really good for me.
Is it possible jen that he's violent when he's in withdrawl ?. I no i've been violent when in w/d. Or when when i've been on benzo's or crack i turn into a nastey person. I have  hurt so many people i love along this LONG road of self destution i've been living 13 year's. I unlike you have a partner who is getting clean aswell. It's not been easy. But the truth of the matter is the drug's can be so dame good it's abivous with something that nice & highly addictive it's gonna be hell to come of.
What i feel you need to do & this is just me. As an addict that's seen the hell i can put my loved one's through. Yes help your man you love him alot by the sound of it. B

[natalile]

( SOZ ).BUT yu have to look out for yourself more so.I have no dout your fella love's you. I love mum family so much but bdrug's make addict's & addict's learn how to be exellant lier's, minipulator's, self seeking people. In there world there number 1 love is there addiction & not alway's through choice. It's just that's what an person become's. The we are & can love other's. This is starting to sound wrong, I have no dout he show's you love but heroin was in his life long before you & i bet he's so inlove with you he doe's need help. But that also has to come from within. The addict has to make the desision to give up ( for him ) no 1 else an addict can only get clean if they really want to quite.
When he say's he has to be full ov it before he can start getting clean, that's him not wanting to let go.
What about his family do they still have contact & a good relasionship with them ?. Or has he like me done alot of damage & family has come & gone due to my addiction. They are back now, But it was only when i showed them & i mean really showed tham i wasn't gonna hurt them enymore
Yes herion is one ov the worsed drug's it up there with the big boy's. & craving's are like no other i've had. They say once an addict alway's on addict & i do belive it. It's how that addict deal's with his addiction?. How many bag's a day is he on ?
There are alot of option's open to him. He's done detox & walked after 30 day's. That's the craving's the phisical side is over within a week or 2 but that's when the mind game's start after that. I swear there ant a day goe's by when i don't think about smack. But it is getting better every ady i feel stronger & you will ( he ) will have his up's & down's. He will have to cut all tie's with his useing mate's & that can be a hard part.
Your right when you say you talk about it with him. You are in this aswell & you need to keep those line's of comunication open. It might not alway's be a bed of roses. For the w/d did it will feel like your on the thorn's. It will make your love for each other stronger. Just keep it him his head about detox. After 10 year's i don't think i would be able to go cold turcky. There are med's out there to help him. But unfortunatly most of the are also addictive. I do suggest not to take the methadone route. I did now i've been addicted to that for 6 year's & it's even harder to come of that herion.
Enyway i've been rammbeling ( i'm none for it on here lol ) so sorry & keep posting you will find alot of support it's a geart sight. It's not just addict's there are loved one's like yourself we seek help & info all the best nat xx

[carr]

Jen, sorry it took so long for me to post back...as an addict..i've been off doing the addict thing...all i can do is tell u about my relationship with my man and hope it reflects some light to your situation...i met him 3 years ago...he was clean...i was smoking pot...i had just tried coke (snorting)...first he asked me to slow down on smoking pot....no problem....i actually gave it up for him....i didnt further investigate the coke thing..cuz he asked me not too....two months into our relationship an old friend of his (patricia) talked him into using again....it was his choice of course...he thought he could just do it "once" and be done....not so....for a year i knew he was doing something but couldnt quite figure it out...(he's a shooter)...i always seemed to be one step behind him...he left tale tale signs..but i wasnt picking up on them really well, i had never dealt with needles...anyways....he would run off in my car for hours, sometimes days....lying and telling me b.s. that i believed sometimes and other times i knew better...at one point he got violent not so much against me...but took it out on the mailbox or the closet door...cordless phone...etc..it was usally when he was coming down off the dope...eventually..he told me it was the dope and not me that made him mad...he just lost it..and i got the brunt of it...which i would gladly do again..unfortunately....i got tired of battling against him so i joined him in using....having said that....its not that he doesnt want to quit....he does...believe that from him....no addict wants to continue using...we all want off of our "DOC" (drug of choice)...we all want clean lives and to function in our normal capacity..whatever that maybe for each individual....so i am now trying to find my "normal capacity" again...he has (my man) been thru rehab quite a few times and he needs it again right now as i am typing this...after i found out about his drug usage...all i wanted to do is help him anyway i could....unconditional love....no matter what....but becareful because "unconditional love" has great meaning too...which he can abuse and prolly will at some point...my man is a great manipulater...he is used to getting what he wants...the good thing is..i know when he's doing it whether he knows he is doing it...it comes second nature to him i think...i dont always give him what he wants...i compromise....sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt...anyways....

what kind of pills is he using when he cant get heroin? i know i used heroin to take away the wd's from dilaudid....it worked ok....there is also a drug called suboxon (sp) prescribed of course but effective so i am told and read on here...its addictive too....methadone worked for my man as he's been on drugs for 12 years...but he said when he came off of it...the wd's are 300 times greater than those of heroin....i dont recommend methadone...lots of horror stories....but maybe the suboxon will work...there is a website...www.suboxon.com (i dont know how to spell it) but i've seen it here on the forum....i hope this helps somehow...i've stood by my man thru it all...in fact i am still standing there beside him thru his addiction and my own...its not easy...i think to love an addict u have to love both sides...the one that knows he/she has a problem and wants to do right...and the side that uses no matter what the consequences....to me its two ppl living in one mind....anyways its 5:34 am here and i for once am feeling sleepy...take care and dont give up the good fight...but dont lose yourself in his addiction....if u need too leave him to his addiction for a few hours and take time to regroup..an addict has no off days....we work 7 days a week...but do take time for urself....i am here for u as much as i can be....take care...xxxxxxxxxx

carrie

[jenny8575309]

If he wants to quit, see if he'll go to an NA meeting.

[Curls]

Carrie - I've been wanting to say how interesting your original post was.  That's valuable to know the pain killers can trigger back pain.  Very useful.  Thanks.


jen - to add to the questions to ask...has he lied to you or manipulated?  How do you feel about that in the context of a relationship?  Is that the relationship you want (and saying it's because of the drugs is only justification)?  Who's motivating him to get off drugs?  He may want to, but is the motivation coming from him or you?  Motivation isn't something you can light under someone, certainly not with something this powerful as an opposite force.  You can support someone motivated already is all.  You've never met this man, nor been in a relationship with him.  You're in a relationship with a project.  It's great to be compassionate, but that doesn't mean giving up yourself.  Ever.
Well, that's my soapbox.  Anyway, hope you are gathering the info you need and came here for.  
- Curls

[Givitup]

You may be setting yourself up for an incredibly miserble life.  My husband after 3 years of marriage,  starting drinking and doing pills.  He lied, manipulated, stole from me, promised a million times he would get help and I believed him because I loved him AND because he was my husband.  The pain of living with his addiction got so much worse and I was finally made the heartbreaking decision to divorce him.  He didn't stop and today he sits in prision.   My suggestion and what saved me is getting help for yourself.  Because he will continue to chase the drug and you will continue to chase him.  You are addicted also but not to a substance but to his addiction.   I got involvedi Alanon which was a God sent.  There is a really good chance your boyfriend will never get better.  Can you see yourself doing this for the next 2 years?  The next 5 years?   Again, I hope you will get help because co-addicts can be just as sick as an addict. Believe me I say I understand you pain but you can cannot Control his drugs use, Caust it or Cure it.  

[carr]

your welcome...and its not the first time i have been told that by a doctor...take care\

carrie