coming off sub;s took endo's 4 a week to help with wd's now in wd's again..HELP ME PLEASE!

[dani185]

Ok well here is my story.. have an addiction to percocet but have been doing well..Started taking suboxone a year ago..Came off 1/4 of a 2mg and was feeling pretty bad with withdrawls ..to my surprise!! I was told the small dosage I was on, I would feel very lil wd's.. yeah right! anyway i read somewhere that taking percocet will help with the wd's..i know..STUPID!! So I took percocet 4 a week, and 2 pills 4 x a day.. of 10/325.. Now tis is 48 hours and I am in terrible wd's!! same stuff sweats, rls, insomnia.. ect.  Is this from the suboxone or am I going through wd's after taking percocet for a week..it just makes no sense?? how long will this last..please help me...

[refusingbondage]

Hard to tell what is causing the withdrawal.. could be the sub, could be the percocet. You went back on to 8 pills per day so thats kind of a lot.. I agree re sub withdrawal (yeah right!  I was told mild to none either, after coming off 1mg after 2 1/2 years..Boy was I in for a surprise..).. the good news is, if its the percocet your in for about 5-7 days and then you will start feeling better. Sub withdrawal is not easy, but jumping to 8 percs a day was a really bad idea (although having been through sub withdrawal I can empathize why you did it).. either way, regardless of what is causing the withdrawal, you can and will get through it.  You know the deal.. hot showers, amino acids, immodium, benadryl to help sleep.. Just mush through it.  It WILL NOT last forever - this I can promise.  You will fee so much better if you just tough it out.  Good luck and keep us posted.

[dani185]

thank 4 the reply.. I know stupid choices I make..so exhausting!  But do u think the insomnia is going to last after 7 days..really six days of perc;s..thats the main problem..  I can handle the days..I have a 2year old and dont have a choice! lol..  But Im crying the  past 2 nights..I took ambian 10mg and it helped me sleep for 2 hours but then Im walking the halls all the rest of the night..I cant imagine the sub's to still be in my system and giving me insonia...right?  I thought tis nightmare was over!!!!

[refusingbondage]

Subs take a while to clear out of the system.  It has a very long half life.  Usually sleep is the last thing to return but after a week, it should start improving for you.  I took Lunesta and it did NOTHING for me during those first few weeks.  It will be over soon though.. Just stay strong.  Count the minutes if you have to and dont give up and stay away from the percs!   You'll make it!

[dani185]

I have been off the subs for over 2 weeks now,  This has to be the perks's? right?  But I cant imagine I feel like this with only taking them for like 6-7 days..is their something else wrong???? Im on like 50hrs..do u think it dhould be over after tonight?  i hear 72 hours id when all is out of your system?  But only a week of perks I cant imagine it can be more than that...Please help im having a rough time and Im scared!!

[whitie]

how long were you on the sub?

neither of your sub docs mentioned that the wd's could be bad???

do they tell you its a narcotic opioid?

I know what its like, I had to shake methadone, which was very hard because its a strong long lasting,replacement narcotic opioid.  sounds like you are going through long term sub wd's to me.......

[refusingbondage]

ok stop panicking. I cant give you a definite answer.. other than just wait it out.  Most likely it is a combination of both causing the w/drawal.. IMO.  5-7 days.. Maybe less.  I highly doubt anything else is wrong.  Its w/drawal.  It suc*ks for everyone. But you will be ok.  Its a lot mental.  When I was in bad w/drawal I just made myself stop panicking and pretty much gave in to it.  I totally surrendered to: "Ok I feel like I want to die" and then I just waited.. And nothing happened. I didn't die. I was calm and just gave in to being miserable, I accepted that I was going to be misereable and just waited it out.  You can do this.  You just have to mentally stay positive- know that this will not last forever.  

[refusingbondage]

Hi whitie  -  congrats on kicking methadone.  Ive heard that is the beast of all beasts.  

I was on sub for a little over 2 1/2 years.  I jumped on Sept 2, 2008 (a day I will remember forever) from 1mg.  My doctor and I had a very good relationship. He always spent time with me, asked me many questions and listened.  I saw him one a month for over 2 1/2 years.  BUT at the end he promised me little to no withdrawal coming off of 1mg of suboxone.  He was wrong. I was angry.  I spent months in w/drawal.  I am now almost a year off suboxone and Im over the anger.  I recognize the positive and negative to it.  

[wildwoodone]

My sub withdrawal also took several weeks versus several days with vikes.  You are likely still feeling both.

[dani185]

tks for the reply..I was on sub's for a year starting off at 8mg..going to down two 2mg in 6 months and slowly tapering down to .25 for the past 4 months..the dr's said I would feel a lil something but not much...btw..just left her a msg.  I cant tell her about the perc's UGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.  doesnt perc's leave your system pretty fast? esp since I was just on the for 6 days..Im so confused and feel horrible, and have no patience..thks everyone!!

[bkwrm679]

The problem is that subs keep your opiate tolerance high. So, you can use subs for 6 months, go on regular opiates for a week, and then have withdrawals like you've been using the regular opiates for 6 months. Supposedly your receptors are also hypersensitized so you have a higher chance of OD'ing if you use regular opiates right after coming off of suboxone. Seems a little contradictory, but I can definitely vouch for the first part.

[whitie]

yup, that explains it.given what you just said, It the sub more than  the oxies,btw(percs)

I think its best, to realize how your enemy opperates. as long as your brain's receptors have been relying on narcotics,regardless of the type(yes,some are worse to wd's like sub and 'done) going from one to the other is just KEEPING the brain use to  the artificial supply, and not relying on its natural ability to supply the receptors. so all this time your body quit producing natural endorphins..........its living off the synthetic narcotics. did you know your body naturally produces, endorphins equal in strength to morphine? [kinda like after a good work out, you get that very relaxing harmonious feeling].. well they quit because they overrun by narcotic invaders. and the longer you have been on narcotics,especially longer/stronger replacement narcotics like 'done and sub, the longer it takes to shake. one cannot expect to be back to normal after a week or even two. but the majority of wd's should be gone in 10 -20 days for heavy users, but then it might be a 2-3 months fatigue issue or longer for some.  it will all be worth it in the end, you forgot how nice it actually is,believe me  :]

your brain works everything, from bowel movements to motor skills..........it all gets effected during wd's. theres about ten things I have listed in my  journal  here, that happened to me.

so unless you are strong and determined..... you may fall prey to the wd's.

[dani185]

thks! I cant believe im here..just spoke to my dr..she said I can go back on the sub's..cut to an 1/8th of a tablet every 3-4 days..until I feel like I dont need it..I dont know what to do..she also called in ambian cr.5 day supply..I hope this is almost over..

any advice?

I cant belive that me doing the perc's for 6 days can bring me back to this...I think its def a combo of both which I feel is double the wd's!!!  

[whitie]

yeah, I have gone ct of norcos in the past(about 20 times like a mellon brain,all because I ate them up fast) and it seemed like I was back to normal after a few weeks, hence then I would think I was superman, and would suddenly now handle using better........never happened ,always went back to using large amounts. well now I know why,given what my brains receptors were USE to !!

Yes, I never experienced anything nearly as bad as shaking methadone. It took a long time,just to get over major wd's. I had  the runs for almost 6 weeks then it still lingered on for a little while. I am at 83 days or so, and finally starting to get back to %90. I got on methadone, and thought it was great and plus it would get me clean off narcotics. well much like many sub users, I found out I was on just another narcotic. they both actually do have a time and place.......liek heroin addicts or IV drug users.  only when absolutely neccessary should they be used. my case, it would have been much easier to shake the norcos.


also, was not the money grubbing sub doc system expensive?

[refusingbondage]

whitie - I completely agree.  For me, sub was not expensive.  My insurance covered the doctor visits and the prescription.  I only had to pay my $35.00 co pay for each.  

[whitie]

no its the sub that you are wd's from my experiences, and keep in mind your brains recepetors have not returned to normal, until they get back to normal, it will only be normal, to not feel normal !!

dont worry about it, you are just going to have to take the pain and pay the price in time. some say you should taper off sub, I know methadone they say is a must. but I ran out before and did it, and lived :]

[dani185]

so do u think I should go back on the sub;s and taper down to less every 3-4 days..not sure of that will help..the doctor thinks so..

i know I screwed myself  p taking the perc's,  but If i knew it was just the perc's im going through withdrawl from I would stick it out..I mean I only took them 4 6days.. i know  of them is alot, but Im hoping I should be ok bye friday..any suggestions?

[BIKERDAD1963]

You cant take an opoid drug while on sub. The sub attaches to all the opoids so nothing else can. when taking percs on the sub the sub boots out the percs almost immidiately and your body will withdrawal from the percs you took. Did your doctor not explain this to you. You are doing a very dangerous thing here. The sub will take atleast 1 month to get out of your system. Dont take anything while on the sub unless you love withdrawals.

[guv338]

You need to stick it out regardless of sub or perc.  You are into the process and be taking more sub or anything will only make you start over and have to fight through these
roughest days again.  I cant tell you if its the sub or the perc.  I have often wondered the same.  I did 8 years on OXY and only one month on Sub.  I have tried to blame the Sub, but I no that using the Oxy so long and so much has got to be a factor in all of this.  
Blame which ever you like, but dont go back to either.  Its only a game your playing with yourself if you believe either is going to help make this easier.  Keep up the good fight and I hope you feel better real soon.  

[dani185]

I didnt take the perc's while on the sub's..I was off them for like 8 days....I dont wanna start the sub's..It will be 3 weeks this friday that ive been off the sub's..whats the point!  Thats what makes me believe that is the perc's and its just weird to go through the w/d's after only 6 days on the perc's?  Confusing, but the insomnia is the worse..and the feeling of walking around in a daze *****..although i think its because i am not sleeping well!!

[BIKERDAD1963]

I understand you being off the sub but it remains in your system for atleast 30 days. It is a very slow releasing drug. It builds up in your system and even tho you stopped taking it it is still there. Thats how it works. The thinking behind it is that that slower it takes to get out of your body the less severe the withdrawals will be. Thats why the withdrawals last about a month on sub.. I cant beleive your doctor hasnt explained any of this. Any opoid drug you take during this will leave your body very fast causing quiker withdrawals from it. In any case stop the drugs and get back with the program. it would be a shame to stop now. Go to the sub web site and read up on what your doctor should have told you.

[whitie]

Yes, regardless liek guv338 said, your going to have to just do it either way..........or you will be back, then it will be even harder.

[dani185]

oh.. i understand now..I just wish I knew how long this will last.. Im off the subs 3 weeks this friday and i started taking the percs last mondau until this past sunday so I ve felt like **** 8 hours after my last perc..so Im wondering if the next few days will be the end of the worse of it...any idea?
\
thks again

[BIKERDAD1963]

Well you got atleast another week for the sub. Dont no when your last perc was but generally the sub spits out the perc pretty fast and the withdrawals are a bit quiker but much harsher. Dont take anything else and hopefully in a week you will be glad you stuck with it. You should tell your doc what has happened incase there are problems that may arise from it. Also the longer you are on sub the worse the withdrawals will be. Sub is just another opoid drug only much much stronger. It is just as addictive as anything else. It isnt meant for long term use. The shorter time you take it the easier the withdrawals are. Just hang in there. You have gone this long another week shouldnt be to bad.

[dani185]

thank u!! im hoping the net few days will be easier.. going 4 a massage to relax.. i hope!!thks 4 the info!

[mom_of_two136]

Well, I just wanted to say that I was on suboxone for a year and was able to taper off with only minor symptoms. I reduced by 25% every month and toward the end I was taking a crumb every third day. Insomnia was and is my biggest issue but not really bad. I know there are horror stories out there but there is just as many positive experiences too. I do not know about someone saying "the longer you are on it the harder it is to get off". That has not been my experience. I know some people who were on it for years that were able to taper off as I did. I would recommend to anyone trying to taper off to talk to their doctor about reducing 25% every fourth day down to 0.25mg then start skipping days. I really worked for me. May not work for everyone but I know many people who it has worked for. Just a suggestion for those tapering off suboxone.

[dani185]

thks for the reply..spoke with my dr and she said the same..with the tapering off.. i just feel i have gotten this far..I dont want to ever do it again..but i dont know how much longer i can go on.

[cubsmom]

research the thomas recipe. The l tyrosine and b6 have really been helpful!  I'm also taking the valerian root and acaica. Major difference. I'm 17 days no vikes and I was only taking 1 tramadol a day and dying!  I didn't know if it was vikes or trams. (Took 3 7.5s a day for a year). But I'm over it now and hoping by Friday I will be good to go!  

[worried878]

If u were on sub for a yr..u didnt state ur original dose//or i didnt see it cos i skim read...and if u tapered off quickly then the long half life on sub makes for a longer wd than other drugs....tapering off sub is usually done very very slowly..like to a crumb or a sliver..that drug packs alot of power
could be that ur taking those percs are prolonging wds..if u were dosed up with subs..then taking 80 mgs of percs..chances r the sticky stuff//the sub had not been completely off ur receptor sites so they coulda been a waste of time if us started them very soon after the sub..that stuff takes a while to "unglue"  (not a word but couldnt think of another)....anyway ur receptors may still be a bit blocked...turning to a narcotic to get off a narcotic is not always/usually not the best choice//many end up using their doc to get off of sub...and that is not the intentions originally//but they have msadvertised this drug and many became a victim...not against sub cos it has its place in recovery for those who need it

aftercare is the best way to stay clean...read the thomas recipe...and get up and MOVE...release those much needed endorphins that have been suppressed due to the outside source u were feeding to ur brain...hang tight..dont cave..and be patient..mayb e ur sub dr can help u with some safe meds to help the symptoms???keep posting

[helios17]

Look...I've posted this elsewhere but I feel it's important to repeat.

I got dropped by my workers comp during a sub taper and was left out in the cold while taking 4 mg daily.  The first four days were hell on earth but I went to an emergency room doctor and she was a pain meds doc in her normal practice.

Two things she did.  She gave me bentyl for the sitdown firewater sessions and prescribed clonidine for the crawl out of your skin feelings.  To me that was the worst part...the part of me that wanted to rip my skin off.

Clonidine is a blood pressure medication so it can't be taken without your doc knowing about it but honestly, it completely took that horrible feeling completely away.  It makes you a bit sleepy and you will still have other symptoms like lethargic behavior and diarrhea, but even with those, you won't feel like every minute is an eternity.  Again, you will need to know what your normal blood pressure is and monitor it.   Talk to your doc about the clonidine.  It really makes the entire sub detox thing tolerable.

And about over riding the sub addiction with other narcs.  Tried that too.  Bought 20 of the 10/350 norcos.  One of them use to keep me good for 5 - 6 hours. with the sub, I was lucky not to start w/d's in two.  The folks above are right...sub stays in you forever it seems.  Question, do you suffer edema from the subs. Leg swelling?  If so, as the swelling goes down, so does the sub withdrawal.  My theory is that the sub stays in the body fluids in the edema-effected areas.  My leg swelling was horrible but when the swelling went away, so did the w/d's.  Took a full two months to feel "normal" again.  

Trust me, the clonidine was the key to my recovery...