how do we deal with the depression that comes with getting off the pills.

[hippy]

for me i struggled with this for 2 years, every time i tried to get off the
pills i would get a week clean but the severe depression would kick in and rock me to the point of not being able to move.
i would just sit and stair out the window. then i would
get more pills because i had work that had to get done.
not untill i found this fourm and started taking the L-tyrosine
and b-6 did i get through the depression.
i also took 5htp to help with it. these supplements help ed
more than i can ever say.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[movingon]

Hello,

I'm a brand new participant.  I submitted a post yesterday AM that was had a lot of questions about my Hudrocodone and Oxycontin use but was not a comment to question. I never saw it show up. I noted today that the instructions said "do not post new questions here", only comments, so I thought maybe that was the reason and I don't understand what's allowed and not. or what the process is for posting new questions. So I thought I would try this and see if it shows up.  

[cheermom]

you might want to post at the top of the page.  a lot of people dont always scroll down everytime they come on.  you will probably get a lot more responses.  i have no experience with that drug so i'm sorry i cant help.

[Sundown]

As one who has both depression and addiction, I know the problem you face. Those of us with "dual diagnosis" need treatment for both illnesses at the same time. Whether effexor is the right drug for you needs to be decided between you and your doctor. I know that treatment of my depression helped greatly in getting me this far, which is off hydro for 37 days now. I think, for myself, if my depression had not been addressed, I never would have made it this far. You really should get guidance from your doctor in this, preferably a psychiatrist with addiction experience. They can help.

Sundown

[RobynBanks]

Im thinking about going on 'Effexor' (anti-depressant) before complete withdrawl from Percodan. I have a history of drug abuse and depression but have never tried anti-deppressants FIRST. I'm hoping my doc is with me on this one. I just find that my depression is so intensified when completely off the pills that it triggers me to get more. I'll let you know how it goes. Any suggestions are welcome.

[hippy]

sorry to hear all your going trhough, but things change and get better, don't give up on that.
as far as the vitamins i take 4 , 500mg L-tyrosine and 2,  b-6
100 mg  every morning.
you can buy these rather cheap at any wall mart.
the vitamine stores are more expensive.
continue on the good path everying will work out,
life just takes time. i have been through a lot with my kids too over the years, but as i stayed clean i got both of my kids from
2 different marrages and raised them both, they are in collage now and doing fine. but there were times when i was seperated from them for a year or so due to an angry x wife.

i thought way back then that my life was always going to be a nightmare but  that was small thinking. i worked hard at doing
the right thing. it all paid off.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cheermom]

i also hadnt seen anyone else on the board post too much about adderall.  there was a thread way down on bottom but that was about it.  i went from about 4-5mg tabs twice a day to popping 10 right out of bed and then 6-8 more once or twice more that day.  if i had the 10mg then i would take 8 right away (dont know why the difference) and the 6 more 2 more times that day.  i also tried the timed release 20 mgs and of course if i could i would "top" 5 of those off with a few of the reg pills.  it was insane.  like you said i would put outside things off and clean, clean, clean!!!!  i cleaned everything and then cleaned it again!  i was like a maniac.  but things like getting in the shower took forever!  i would get distracted by something else so easily and before i knew it it was 1:00 in the afternoon and i still hadnt showered.  then of course the paranoia sets in and the weight loss.  during the fall/winter i wore 2 long sleeves shirts under a sweater so my husband wouldnt notice how drastic it was.  it worked for awhile until he walked in the bathroom one day and i was in a towel.  he insisted i go to the dr thinking i had some fatal illness or something.  of course deep down he knew it was the pills he just wasnt sure and i dont think he wanted to know.  they were by far the hardest thing to kick.  especially since when i finally knew i had to he was divorcing me and we were still livning together.  the stress was unbearable.  finally on a sunday night i took the last i had and the next morning i packed my car and my 5 yr old and went to my sisters in florida.  of course i told him i was going.  my 2 oldest stayed at home.  i drove for 2 days, stayed for 11, and drove back 2 days.  i slept every minute i could and my sis helped with my 5 yr old.  by the time i got home i felt better, not great, but like i could feel the old me coming back just a little.  i still craved it especially when we were fighting but i just kept on keeping on.  once the paperwork was signed and i got my money from the house i found a townhouse and my daughter (15) and i moved everything ourselves.  it was rough but its better now.  i still have days when i have something to do and think it would be so much "easier" with a perc or the adderall but i just get through it the best i can.

how long have you been off?  you said your husband takes it.  that must be hard for you.  i dont know how i would cope if it was in the house.  thats a big test.  

so how do you take the b-vitamins, how many, milligrams, how many times a day, etc....

its great talking to someone who know.

are we allowed to post email addresses here?

hope to hear from you soon.....

[1st24]

Well, I'm getting to the end of day 4, and because of the recipes and help from this forum, I'm doing OK.  Actually, a lot better than I had expected.  I know that I'll be going through a lot of changes, good and bad, for a long while.  But at least I know I can come here for support, and hopefully can help others by sharing.  I did have a little coffee today, but am drinking lots of water and taking all supplements.  I actually talked to a friend on the phone, put on makeup, and vacuumed my house!  These were big steps compared to my zombie-like existence for the past 3 days.  So far, I have no cravings for either the hydro or the oxy's, but I know that may still happen.  I don't have any idea where they are.  My husband hid them, and I haven't even tried to find them.  I think it's from reading others' experiences of backsliding, and having to go through all of this again that's helping me to really want to stay away from them.  It's like they stole all the goodness of my self, and an evil twin emerged.  So, once again, thanks to all of you, and peace.

[taeme]

Sounds very similar to my story started at a size 8-6 went down to between a 0-4, like you I was thrilled and that was part of what kept me persuing them, I was afraid to be fat. As I told you I have an eating disorder to top things off.  I don't and didn't like being an 8.  So I kept going.  I got to the point were I lost that really good feeling, and replaced it with erratic, hyperactive, incoherance.  I would be so tired I couldn't think.  I looked like death with my 5'5" med to large body frame at around 110-115pds.  My husband said I looked like a little girl. You know how at first it helped you focus mentally, by the end I could still sit and concentrate for long periods, but I avoided things I needed to do, in order to do stuff like clean the house, organize, rearrange that was my fun.  Mind you I still love the stuff but wont do it cause even if I say I'll only do a reasonable amount it doesn't work, when I feel that I wasn't at my peak I would pop more.  I had the 20mg tabs, disliked the 30mg extended release tab that some of his bros ended up on so the stash would stop disappearing. Can you tell me how often you did it, and how much you got up to? If you don't mind.  Just hadn't met anyone else with such a similar story.  HEART TAEME

[hippy]

coffee is cafeen and is really no big deal.
it will dehydrate you and if you don't have a lot of liquids it
can make restless leg pain worse. if you are dehydrated.

[1st24]

I know this may sound like a stupid question, but has anyone found coffee any good as an anti-depressant during wd's?  Or would it just counteract what I'm trying to do with all the supplements?  Please let me know!

[hippy]

as far as getting to post, i live on the east coast
i have found that between 8 30 am and 9 am they open the fourm up for 2 postings.
so tomorrow  monday try postin a question between 8 30 and 930 am
eastern time.

[taeme]

I don't know about emails I have seen a few, let me know if we can maybe someone can aswer that for us.  I've been off for nearly a year.  I have had some maybe twice in that time but not everyday like I was.  The last time since I had a few was about 3mos.  So I can't say that I'm all good.  Ya, my husband takes it but theres no way its in the house he keeps it at his work cause I would take it all.  He knows cause everytime he had it I stole it no matter where he hid it, I could find it.  When he got really good at hidding it, it could take me up to 3-4days to find it, but eventually I would find it.  He even hid it up inside the wiring of his car, I found it.  Once a long time ago, I tried to steel it from his work, fortunately he works it an area I cannot access.  But I did try.  His brothers have suffered to, cause either they have been blamed for the missing meds or were taken off of it when they needed it.  Mind you his bros were old enough that they would give it to me, or to their friends, sell it or whatever.  So everyone was scamming from it.  But now both the older of the bros are on 30mg time released, the younger is on cylert(I believe). I've tried ritalin too, I don't much like it.  Anyway as far as B-vits, at first I'd take 2 per day just a regular b complex for about 1-2 weeks, then just 1 per day, I like to take it at night so I don't taste it all day. And by the way when I would take 2, one in the morning one at night. Cause if you take to much at once, your body just gets rid of what it doesn't need, so basically you would just be flushing the unneccessary B-vits.  I also like melatonin for sleep, its been a good friend without addiction.  Mind you melatonin often has b vits also, so make sure to just take one b-vit.  Can I ask you, did you ever get to the point your hair seemed to be falling out?  I don't know if mine was or not if just felt that way, I have really thick hair so besides seeing how much was in my brush I couldn't tell. I totally know what you mean about taking for ever, it got to the point I couldn't make it to class, work etc... cause I was to busy, hadn't gotten around to what I wanted to do.  I could spend hours trying to clean the stove perfectly, to the point there wasn't any mess even in the cracks, around the screws etc... Also can I ask did you ever have cracks or splits around the corner(s) of your mouth?  Let me know about the email, I would love to hear about your experiences? HEART TAEME

[cheermom]

thanks you for your responses regarding the vitamins!

taeme:  the adderall started a few months after my son was diagnosed with add.  i was already about a yr/ yr and a half into my addiction to the percs, etc.  when he was first prescribed them it didnt even occur to me to try them.  i believe one sunday i had run out(so what else was new?) and as i was walking past the bulletin board i noticed the paper from the pharmacy re: the adderal. i started reading it again and decided to try it.  i took 4 5mg that day and did not sleep for 2 days.  i was so wired.  of course that didnt stop me from trying again and going to the doc complaining of no sleep, anxiety,due to my mom being sick (breast cancer).  so he prescribed xanax and off to sleep i went just to wake up and start over again.  it was by far the hardest pill to give up.  i've done coke before and i liked the adderal better.  i also lost about 30 pounds in 2 months, went from a size 10 to a 4.  of course i was thrilled but really looked like death.  basically this all resulted in my divorce, shortly after my mom died at 53 from the cancer.  my son lives with his father until i've done 8 random tests in a yr.  i have my girls and miss my son terribly.  he is no longer on the adderall.  my ex hates my guts, does not understand how  i could have "done this to him".  funny, since when i met him he was a coke addict and i stood by him through rehab and all.  anyway i'm rambling....

so the b-vitamins you say are great.  so 2 b-6 in the morning?  is that what you take.  let me know.  and thanks for all the input.

hope everyone has a great day.  today is my sons football banquet and i get to spend the afternoon with my ex glaring at me!

[Sundown]

As you may know from earlier posts, I have treatment resistant depression. It was my poor response to treatment that had me self medicating with hydro to numb myself. When I realized my pdoc was just feeding me hydro (for my clusters, which certainly were worse from my depression), rather than helping me find a treatment for my depression which I desperately needed, I sought new help. The next pdoc wanted me to go for ECT (shock therapy)and inpatient detox, but I didn't feel that I was ready to do that. Finally, the third pdoc said "Look, either we get aggresive and try experimental combos or you're going to die form your illness". Well, by god, I reponded! That response gave me the strength to stop the hydro. The pdoc was so supportive. She wanted me to feel better before facing my addiction. That's how I had the strength to stop.

I can't remember ever feeling NOT depressed, and I feel reborn. I laugh, see my friends again, get out of my home, and look forward to each day. I consider every day I wake up to be a gift. I feel like I am finally "alive" again.

The meds that work for me probably may not work for others. I believe while the mechanism of depression is biochemical, it is clear that the biochemistry is unique to each suffferer, or we would all respond to the same meds. I just feel blessed that I finally found what was needed to restore my sanity.

No matter what course you choose to deal with your depression, keep trying, because while it took me over 5 years to find my treatment, help can be found. Never give up!

Sundown

[users mom]

I have a son that does any drug available, pills and herion.
He started with crushing oxycontin and snorting it, then progressed to Heroin. He's been in three rehabs so far, but keeps relapsing. The longest stay was three weeks, I feel he needs a longer stay.

He's unreachable, and is tearing our family apart.

can any one shed light on this

[cheermom]

i've been reading the comments about depression and have a question.  i have been clean 6 months (percs, hydro, codeine, adderall).  i stopped cold turkey and actually lived to tell about it suprisingly enough.  my question is i still feel like a lack energy.  i dont feel depressed and i dont feel like i never have energy but it just seems to feel like i'm missing just a little piece of me.  its hard to explain.  i do what i have to do and i am definitely enjoying life now but i just seem to lag behind a little.  i've been reading your comments about 5htp, L-tyrosine, and b6 but since i'm not sure what they are or what they do i dont know if they would help.  i definitely dont want ANTHING prescription just maybe a vitamin supplement to get me back to "normal".  any feedback would be greatly appreciated.  i also wanted to thank everyone.  i've been a lurker here for some time and this board got me through some rough nights.  everyone here should be so proud that they are able to reach out to others the way that you all do.

[hippy]

L-tyrosine 500 mg. and b-6 100mg would help in the morning.
the L-tyrosine is an amino acid that get your natral
endorphins kicked  in and it is a vitamine and the b-6 is a b vitamine 2 of each a day would help, i have been clean 7 months
and still take them.
5htp is a vitamine supplement that acts like natraul seratonin
1 aday.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps. along with a daily multi.

[taeme]

I know what you mean and thats the feeling that drives me back.  You know of everything I would recommend B vitamins, they not only help with mood, depression, they help with sleep, brain functioning, memory.  I think those B-vitamins are excellent.  I would definitely look into starting those. It may take a little while, you wont notice it.  Which is what addicts like, they like to feel like its working.  But these really should make you feel better, increase energy.  I can't say enough about them, I've done some pretty extensive research on B-vitamins.  Specifically when I was on adderral.  Do you mind my asking you how you ended up with adderral, they are very strict with that stuff.  My husband and all his brothers are prescribed the medicine so I took it for over about a year, I got to the point I could stay up between 3-5 days rarely 5 but I was taking about 100-200mg per day.  Talk about tolerance, I remember when 10-20mg would set me off like a rocket, running around.  I haven't done that for a long time now and that was hard but I did it.  Mind you it wasn't as hard as coke.  But try those B vits.  HEART TAEME

[gia]

I do not know why I can never post a question on this site. Anyhow  I went to see a counselor about my addiction and she asked me why I wanted to get clean. Was it for myself, the courts, my family or whatever. I responded that I needed a change in my life and that I know that I can not go on any longer like this, and she responded with,"why not?" She then asked why not just keep getting high and then proceeded to ask this hypothetical question."What if your drug of choice was over the counter and even after extended use there were no withdrawal symptoms,would you continue to use? Or let's say you knew for sure that the world was coming to an end in three weeks, would you use till the end? Basically she was trying to see how bad I wanted to get clean and whether or not it was for the right reasons. The problem is that I had to actually think about it for a moment, especially the answer to the second question. I can't honestly say that I am absulutely  sure I would not use in the latter situation. What does that say about me? I have only been clean for a week straight so maybe I need more time, however,I was curious as to what others might say. Please post back to me with your answers or feedback. I hope this does not offend anyone. Thanks and I hope everyone is doing well and  staying strong. I apreciate everyone's comments and I believe that this forum is a blessing. By the way is anyone from Atlanta or Jacksonville, FL? I am originally from Jax, but live in Atlanta now.

[Bodymechanic]

Hippie

How in god's name do always manage to post topics.  I have tried at all hours of the day and night to post a topic. All I ever get is a message that reads "Due to lack funding and limited staff we have reached our daily limit of new questions".  Perhaps I am mistaken, but the only people I have ever seen  answering questions on this forum are the board members.  Maybe the message should more correctly read "You could post a question here for free.  However, we would much rather that you pay some bullshit physician's assistant right out of college to give you misinformation and incomplete answers".  

Everyone

Depression has been a hot topic here in recent weeks.  The simple answer is that if you are suffering from post withdrawal depression, it will soon pass with or without treatment.  Unfortunately, there are some of us (many) who are suffering from depression that predates our drug use. It also persists in spite of exhaustive treatment and psycotherapy.  And it persists even after many years of being totally drug and alchol free. This is what I have been calling addiction related to a biochemical disorder of the brain.  I can only pray that someday it will be recognised as a genuine diagnosis and not just something invented in the mind of a sruggling addict (myself)

The best service and possibly the only service that we can do for eachother is to seek help on our own.  I am tired of the  psychatrists usual ****. I have nothing to show for the countless dollars and years I have wasted on them. In my opinion they are nothing more than drug pushers for the rich drug companies.  Which I would not mind if their potients and snake oils worked.  Now my doctor is the collective minds of the internet. My pharmacy is the online pharmacy.

My latest trial which will last 8 weeks(or forever if it works) is as follows.

1) I am discontinuing the use of ultram because using it will intefere with the other medications I will be using.
2) Deprenly 10-20 mg per day to elevate dopamine levels.
3) Busbar 20 mg per day to help reduce anziety, elevate dopamine levels and SLIGHTLY elevate serotonin levels.
4) Clonidine .1-.2 mg at bedtime to reduce sympathetic hyperactivity.
5) Tyrosine in the AM to provide the raw material for dopamine production.
6) 5HTP in the morning to provide the raw material for serotonin production.
7) Udo's Choice perfect food as an overall natural balanced food supplement.
8) BioGreens as a complete nutritional supplimentation and to balance body PH.
9) Coral calcium...Ummm....I fell for the TV hype and wanted to try it.

There are no harmful ingredients here.  Deprenly is one of the safests medications on the market.  Busbar has been around for years with no reported significant side effects. Clonidine is also a very safe medication.  All of these medications are safe when taken in combination.  The only question is will they work. At lest I will be no worse off then before.  As time goes on I will report on it's effectiveness.  I wish others would do the same things and regardless of you use, post your results. Wouldnt it be best thing ever if a bunch of junkies solved a problem that so many could not or would not solve.

United we stand.  Divided we fall.


Peace

[CATUF]

I may be posting this in the wrong thread, but . . .

Chatahan

[puma]

Catuf,

I never really thought of it that way but you are so correct. It isn't that I want so desperately to be clean and sober, but the simple lack of negatives which go along with the addiction/ withdrawals and chasing down the drug of choice.

I feel good on Codiene, but quit do to blackout seizures and lack of availability. I am quitting booze do to toxicity of daily usage on my health plus forever fighting withdrawal.

I have a chronic pain disorder and will maintain the Ultram for now, but who knows what next week will bring?

The Klonopin I take for seizures. It has solved six health related problems I have. I don't plan to give it up but the Doc here is wierd and wants me to detox. Detox to what, more seizures? I will sue him if that happens!

Thanks for the input, and congrats on being over 30 days. My cat is about to deliver and driving me nuts. I have to run to take care of her while she has her babies. Take care and God Bless.

Chatahan.......wildcat

[Sundown]

Your considering about how you would honestly answer those questions is the result of your addiction. Being straight for one week in WONDERFUL, but you are just starting the process of recovery from this terrible illness of addiction. I've been clean 34 says now, and while I am commited to staying clean, I'm not sure how I would answer some of those questions. The one about "if it's over the counter with no withfrawl" I think (IMHO) is not that pertinant, as such a substance wouldn't meet the criteria of an addictive drug, although I can imagine the question could as to whether you have an "adictive" personality. It reminds me of how freely we use the word addiction these days, with shopping "addicts","exercise" addicts", etc. But a question like what you would do if the world were going to end, or perhaps even just you knew you were going to die, would you use is a tough one. Probably in my first week, my answer would ahve been Yes. Now, I guess it would be I'm not sure. I am commited to staying clean for the rest of my life, but changing and healing our minds takes ALOT of time and ALOT of effort.

She wasn't asking you "trick" questions . She wanted to raise those issues so YOU would really think about how you would answer and feel your own commitment, and see how the pitfalls that life can bring to your future, stress, disappointments, faliures (all a part of everyones existence) can effect you and cause relapse. Learning how to not rely on drugs in the face of adversity is the biggest problem for every addict. We all used these drugs as an escape from either physical or emtional pain in our lives. What happens the next time those events occur as the test of our sobriety. Keep in mind there are no "right answers", other than knowing that remaining committed to a clean life is going to be a struggle for us all. But the rewards of that stuggle are, I think, well worth it.

Anyway, congratulations on ONE WEEK. Thats a great start.

Sundown

[hippy]

best to get a week off if possible.
if not the receipe will hep with dealing with work.