takin methadone for oxy withdraws

[melroy]

im starting to take methadone to stop oxycontin withdraws. 1st.is, will taking methadone instead of oxycontin detox me from oxy,and how long till i can stop taking methadone and not feel any withdraws from oxy? 2nd how long does it take to become physically dependent on methadone?  im **** this myself no doc im getting it off the street. my goal is to stop physical dependence(withdraw) to oxy but not take methadone long enough to get physical dependence. i was taking 160mg of oxy a day, now im taking 30mg. methadone for the last 4 days and no oxy.

[ExOA]

Be careful with methadone. It Does keep the withdrawls from oxy at bay but try to keep you dosing low. I used to get methadone off the street to try to quit using oxy also.  i was using about the same amount of oxy that you were.  It didn't work very well for me because I would try to get high of the methadone.  Methadone withdrawls are much more painful than oxy withdrawl

[rockferdoxy]

I just do not under stand Drs. sometimes. Methadone is the hardest drug to kick.
methadone was invent by Hitler,s scientist for mind control I never fished my reseach to find why US compencated this recipe  and used it. I do know US used it for are Vietnam vets. Who were junkies when they came home It's like trading one bad drug for another???

[rockferdoxy]

Sorry about last night all want to convey is once an addict always an addict. just want the best for you we are vulnerable to slip so take care stay clean my friend you got a lot of time clean take care.

[ExOA]

I understand what your comment meant. I dind't take it personaly. Sometimes I forget that I will always be an addict.  I had to go to rehab twice to finally quit oxy and I learned there that once an addict always an addict. thanks for reminding me.

[MuKappaDelta]

Hey Melroy,

I think that you may misunderstand the physical addiction process of opioids.

Opioid agonists (like oxy and methadone), are all agonists of the mu opioid receptors.  They all cause mu receptor axons to activate, firing a pulse of electricity.  The various and sundry opioids do this with varying degrees of effectiveness, which explains a substantial portion of their varying degrees of potency (liver metabolism makes up for the other portion).  For instance, this largely explains why dihydromorphone HCL (Dilaudid) is about 5 times the potency of oxycodone (Oxycontin) when taken orally, it stimulates mu more effectively.  In the case of good old-fashioned morphine via the oral route of administration, it is the first-pass effect of the liver, i.e. liver function, that largely determines its effectiveness.  But I digress...

Physical addiction occurs because the brain tries to compensate for the massively increased mu receptor activity by decreasing the sensitivity of the neurons that are on the other end of those axons, requiring increased firing frequency to generate the same effect that less frequent firing activity previously did.  When an oxycodone addict switches to methadone, the methadone keeps the receptors firing at the same rate that the oxycodone was (or only a slightly reduced rate).  When they then quit the methadone the endogenous (naturally occurring in the brain) opioid agonists, mainly endorphins (endogenous morphine), are insufficient to trigger the now desensitized neurons.  After a length of time clean, the brain resensitizes itself via the same mechanism that caused the desensitization.  Until that happens, though, the mu receptors do not fire as often as they should, and the owner of the brain feels like **** as a result.

So, in a nutshell, your WD symptoms are going to appear in any event, but the particular opioid that you are addicted to will impact the exact nature of the WD, due to its own unique properties with regard to its own metabolization within your body.  It is for this reason that I recommended that it is *MUCH* more desirable to taper using oxy, or even kick c/t from oxy(or other short-acting opioids) when compared to methadone.  Methadone is an ugly opioid, with a really long and nasty metabolization cycle, so please be careful with it.

I hope that helps!  If you have any more questions feel free to ask, and again, I wish you all the best.

Ray

[melroy]

oh damn  now i understand  no matter what im gonna go through the nasty withdraws  even after stopping the meth.  i thought i take the meth until the oxy is out, or it least mostly out, of my system and so would b the withdraws. i thought that as long as i didnt take meth that long that i wouldn't get a tolerance or dependence to it, but long enough to get most of the oxy out my system!!!!

[chemmonster7]

well being that methadone does help get off pills it is just as addictive i spent 4yrs telling myself it was helping me it was slowly killing me in october I quit c/t from 350milgrms a day the w/d are pure hell never been through anything like that went on meth for a bad pill habit try and stat away from the meth post back

[melroy]

how long does it take to get physical dependence i was gonna take it for 8 days and then stop  i figure i will have no or little oxy withdraw and no methadone withdraw is this accurate this is first time trying methadone

[MuKappaDelta]

Hello Melroy,

Yes, as somebody pointed out, be very careful with methadone.  Kicking methadone is a much more arduous task than kicking oxycodone.  Everyone WD's differently, and there are no two WDs alike, but from my own experience, the length of the acute, or primary WD period for short acting opioid agonists generally runs about 5-7 days.  It peaks about 24 hours in, and begins to wane on about day 4.  Now, everyone is different, and other factors, such as the size and length of your habit will affect this.  Again, I am speaking about my own experience.  Methadone WD (that is, primary, or acute WD), should you become physiologically dependent, will take much longer to run its course, 3-4 weeks, and perhaps more, much more.  I would recommend that you being tapering your 'done ASAP.  30mg is holding you now I assume, with no WD symptoms?  I would cut that in half tomorrow, and see if you experience any symptoms of WD.  If you do, take another 5mg, and wait to see if they are alleviated.  Remember, that methadone metabolism is much slower than oxycodone, so for example, if you feel symptoms of WD after cutting the 'done in half and you take another 5mg, give it a few hours before deciding that the additional 5mg is not helping.  Anyway, the point I am getting at is that you want to find your bare minimum dose that maintains you as quickly as possible, and begin tapering from there.

With regard to how long it will take before you become dependent on 'done, that varies from situation to situation, but personally I would not want to take it for longer than 2 weeks.  In my opinion, if you have access to oxycodone, you would be better off tapering using it, than with methadone.  I would go about that much in the same way I would the 'done, find your bare minimum maintenance dose of oxy, and start tapering there.  Try coming down 20% each week, until you get down to 20mg doses, and then maybe switch to percs if you can get them, as it will be easier to measure out the smaller doses.  There is no way that I am aware of that will completely eliminate all discomfort, but a good tapering regimen using oxycodone (or any other short-acting agonist) should mitigate it greatly.  Granted, tapering with short-acting agonists requires a great deal of willpower, but it can be done, if you stick to your guns.  You do not want to swap oxy dependence for 'done dependence, of that, I am certain.

Also, as you begin to feel slight WD symptoms, try and get some exercise, and keep up the food intake.  While things like benzos and such might be of some assistance with the insomnia and general yucky feelings, they slow down your metabolism in general, and hence the metabolizing of the opioid, thus prolonging your period of acute WD.  So, if you can do it "straight", you will be better off for it.

I wish you all the best!  Stick to your guns and you will come out the other side of this.  Its all about willpower, dig deep, and again, good luck!

Ray

[ArlingtonAddict]

All,

I can't help noticing how many folks replace one drug with another to avoid w/d from the first, etc., etc. Now, I don'tprofess to know the answers, what's more I think there are many ways to succeed BUT I suggest considering the following:

1. Biteing the bullet and endure feeling terrible (whether taper or c/t)

2. If you are concerned for your safety while in w/d, go to a Detix where they will keep you SAFE and comfortable.

3. And/OR if you feel that you can't endure the w/d, go to Detox.

It is my strong assertion that replaceing oxy with methadone is NOT the way to go. That's a 'dance with the devil' (so to speak, I don't mean it's a sin or anything). And street drugs are very dangerous (and I do NOT mean this in a judgemental way--I used them too!) and, if we are working so hard to get better and progress I truly beleive that these tactics are not congruous with that.

That said, I WELCOME EVERYONE and invite everyone to share their views. And no matter folks decide, our support is absolutely unconditional and not predicated upon someone following a suggestion offered up to them in a post. :)

Jessica

[melroy]

so do you think taking methadone for 8 days is to long?  will i get methadone wd after taking it only 8 days  30mg. a day?   my goal was to use the methadone to stop oxy withdraw until the oxy was out my system (8days) and i thought i would have no methadone dependency after taking it only 8 days.   em i wrong?   can u get hooked in just 8 days of methadone use   and would my oxy wd's b over in 8 days or mostly?  my goal was to by past most of the oxy wd's with methadone with out geting a physical dependence to methadone in 8 days
all comments r really appreciated

[melroy]

what mg of oxy should i start to wean from after 2days of taking 10mgs of methadone

[chemmonster7]

my w/ds were 7-8wks hard core and almost 4mnths later i still have promblems but i was at a high dose it was far worse then any w/d I have ever been through my advice ditch the meth an dwill come to you likeing the meth high we will help you through this I will be out tonite but will be back later if i can help youany

[melroy]

damn   does beer help or does it make it worst

[melroy]

there was a comment that said that excercise help how much and y?

[melroy]

sorry i have another question  i also have lyrica  should i take that or no to help with w/d

[MuKappaDelta]

Hey Melroy,

Sorry, been away for a bit, we are having a spot of weather up here and things have been a bit hectic.

OK, let me preface by saying that I am not an MD, no do I have any specific medical training.  I have a formal CS background and am a computer programmer by trade.  I do have an interest in chemistry/pharmacology, but it is strictly a hobby.  I am an opioid addict.

My first bit of advice, would be to consult a doc about the whole thing.  Depending on your circumstances, perhaps a doc that is not your usual GP.  Also, if you are getting your oxy through legitimate channels, by Rx, *NEVER, EVER* tell your prescribing doc that you are having a problem, or that you are no longer in pain.  Kick, keep it quiet, and keep the Rx flowing.  Hoard the stuff in a strongbox, safe, whatever.  Reason being, should you relapse after tanking your Rx, you will be forced to the street to score for all your needs.  So, give your sanity (and wallet) a break and keep everything on the down and low.  :)

So, yeah, I would recommend that you see a doc, discuss everything with him/her.

Now, I am not familiar with all of your circumstances, but I reckon that you have two front and center options here.  Cold turkey or a taper, both, preferably from the oxy (or short-acting opioid).  Personally I prefer hydromorphone, I find it somewhat less "edgy".

So, with regard to your methadone to oxy switch question, I would say to take a smallish dose of oxy, and see where that leaves you.  You said that you took 160mg per day.  What was your dosing schedule like?  I am guessing something like 40mg every 6 hours (just speculating)?  If that is the case, try starting with 20mg every 6 hours (for a total of 80mg per day).  If you do not feel sick, try lowering it the next day by 5mg per dose (as I said, this would be easier with percocet, as cutting up an oxy 40 into small bits could prove a real pain in the hind end).  So, yeah, lower each dose by 5, so 15mg every six hours.  What I am getting at here, is that you want to find the absolute lowest dose that will keep you from WD.  For example, if, at 15mg, you feel WD symptoms, go back to 20mg per dose.  Now, stabilize at this dose for a few days.  Then begin your taper.  Try and taper your dose at a rate of about 20% per week.  You can shorten this time, but this will increase the likelihood of discomfort.  With tapering, slower is always better.  So continue this taper regiment until you are at a very low dose for a week, say 5mg every 6 hours, or preferably even less, lets say a half a percocet every 6 hours for one week.  Then quit.  You may still feel some WD, but it will be much less intense that kicking at 160mg per day.  Some feel almost nothing, maybe a case of the yawns and sniffles.

Now, with regard to your alcohol question, I would advise against it, at least in large quantities.  While it might take the edge off a bit, help you rest, and, perhaps most importantly, speed up your perception of the passage of time, you most certainly do not want to combine hangover with WD.  So don't overdo it. :)

Exercise.  As much as you can handle really.  I mean, don't go out and try and run a marathon, but if you can handle several brisk walks a day then by all means.  Fire in some sit-ups, etc.  Whatever you can reasonably handle.  It will also help pass time.

Lyrica may help with some of the anxiety and muscle cramping.  In addition, its sedative effect may prove useful in copping a few minutes sleep in those first few days.  Please note that Pfizer does warn of potential interaction with oxycodone, while taking both concurrently, so you may wish to look further into that.  After a quick glance, it seems to be no more than additional drowsiness and possibly slight confusion.  In any event, take a closer look at that.  Bring it up with the doc.

Just a quick additional note.  When it comes to cold turkey, I have never found a magic bullet that makes WD easy.  As another poster stated, it sucks, plain and simple.  I think accepting that is an important part of recovery.  That being said, I am always open to new ways that might mitigate the suffering.  The most glowing praise I have heard for a WD recipe was using two meds, Neurontin (gabapentin) and Doxepin.  I believe it was something like Neurontin 300mg PO q.i.d. x 5 days and Doxepin 50mg PO t.i.d. x 5 days (thats Neurontin 300mg 4 times daily for 5 days and Doxepin 50mg 3 times daily for 5 days).  According to the source, they were able to actually get pretty near a full night of sleep each night and the WD itself was described as almost painless.  Again, this is anecdotal evidence, so take it for what it is worth, also keeping in mind that WD is different for everybody.  And oh yes, rent a bunch of DVDs, mindless fun stuff, and get comfy. :)

All the best, keep us posted, and if you have any more questions, feel free to fire away!  

R

[melroy]

how about somas???? i i have a bottle of lyrica and valium. somas r cheap and easy to get.  i cant c a doc cant afford it no insurance.   thank u again fro the info.

[melroy]

do somas and or tylenol 3 with with oxycontin withdraws?  how long can valium be detected in urine drug test?  thank u fall your info.!!!!!

[staceyknows]

wow im reading all of this and just thinking what is this world coming to.  I have been on methadone for almost three years and its the hardest thing ive ever had to deal with the ups the downs some days penuts and some days shells but one thing i do know is that getting off of on drug and starting on methadone is not the answer let me say the thing that does work well for me personally is that fact that meth makes me function very normally in life i can live a very normal life.  I just wish i could explain it better but i guess you would have to knoe me to understand i do no that methadone keeps your head straight it keeps me productive not wanting to do any drugs whether it be any other pills or cocaine or even herion ive done them all they make me not have any interest in any other drug it really makes me feel like i can be very productive ive tried though to get off of it at times because of feeling guilty but why feel guilty when it keeps me normal ive lived the last three years with know problems but every time i do try to get off because of guilt its all but the hardest thing ive ever had to do it sucks and is hard so as of today im on 50 mgs aday and i get it from someone else and that in itself sucks but i do what i do through life to get by but one thing i dont suggest is going from one heavy drug to methadone

[catchiec]

I was on oxys for three months. took meth for five days going down 5 mgs a day. I did not have any withdrawals from oxys. after 5 days I was not dependent on meth and did not have any withdrawals from meth. I was off both pills in less then a week for good

[Greatgreebo]

This post is almost a year old. These people are not here anymore.

[mbounce88]

Im 21 years old and have been abusing drugs since i was in eigth grade with marijuana, then the good ol hey try this white stuff makes u feel great! then i graduated to full blown nething and everything.. Ive been switching from being addicted severely to pain killers, back to snorting /smokin cocaine, " which to say i jacked my dealer to trade for oc" so I know that its the worst thing ever.. But neways, After a couple years of abuse i went to a clinic, mostly to be stable, but i still wanted to get high, 6 months at 80 mgs and i went off it CT it was WAY worse then 3 little ***** days of oc withdrawls that mostly just **** with you mind, so STAY OF DONES, I SHOULDVE tapered but couldnt afford commute so i took my last dose,, Exactly 3 days later  my stomach felt like someone was stabbing it with knifes.. about 30 days later i got back to somewhat normal after A severe hell.> was sober of pills for 6 months, got some drank for my cough went down hill from there.. 2 days of oc at atleast a 80 a day if not more and I am already starting to feel somewhat better, but im also drinking beer right now.> neways point being stay the **** off drugs everyone, and if u need to get off , GROW SOME BALLS AND DO IT.. gotta do it sooner or later, **** methadone and sub its all a crutch and goverment way of getting u hooked but keeping u a functioning zombie, and neone who wants to say ooh i would have done this or that if i dont have it, CAUSE UR A ADDICT GO TO FUCING REHAB

[worried878]

30 mg for 2 weeks..chance r u r ok..but evreyone is different...cut back 5mg a day and be done by sunday.dont get stuck on the methadone...just as people seem to get stuck on sub..it is narcotic invented for pain that did not have the intense high associated with othe narcs..just as sb does not...made in it germany for pain releief...The USA made it a detox drug with a bad name attached to it...many elderly use it to control chronic pain...it really no stronger than oxy and much less strong than sub by compariosn..1 mg sub - 15-20 mg of methadone...not pushing either..sub will burn u quick..methadone will burn u too..u wake up addicted and neither are easy wds...due to the long half life of both sub and meth....get on off..taper on down..and be clean..get some aftercare

[dkong123]

i started takin oxys on vacation wen i hurt my neck, was takin about 40mg a day for teh first week then up to 60-100 by the end of the month. then i ran out a week before i left for home so went through the cold turkey withdraw, then gt back home and took about 120 to 160 a day, but then i slowly weend off cuzi realized how bad this was killin me not to menchin fukin expensive, now ill take 40-60 at a time, once a day, usualy in the afternoon. soo its been about 2-3 months with oxy, how bad would the withdraw be for cold turkey? and hten finally be done for good? i love workin out which makes me feel good, used to wrestle and watnot. im also prescribed xanax and adderal for my add and panic/anxiety disorder. i have gone a day or two wtihout oxy and id take extra xanax or i would take lots and lots of calming teas/supps liek theanin, gaba.