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Allergic to titanium?
Allergic to titanium? I have had three knee replacements, one a cement/antibiotic one. I am in constant pain and my leg has red spots on the aria of the knee replacement and is always wormer then the other leg. Now I have developed a severe allergy in my sinus, with the tubes plug and water on one ear. No one can tell me what I am allergic to. I read many people having the idea of allergies to titanium and I have read that the medical community say it not possible. The last two night I have had a temperature of 101, that comes and goes.
my meds are:
Mometasone Furoate 50 mcg 120d nasal
Loratadine 10mg
Rifampin 300 mg cap
my Gatofloxacin was discontinued by the VA
replaced with ciprofloxacin 500 mg twice a day.
Are you sure that there are no allergies to knee replacements  jeff graham
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I had a titanium plate and screws implanted in my neck about 3 months ago since a week after surgery I have had a terrible headache right at the base of my skull and my neck and shoulders ache and hurt also I have no feeling on the inside of my arms I only sleep about 3 hours a night then my neck starts to hurt. I went back to my neurosurgeon today he said I should be better by now but I am having these issues has anyone else had or heard of this type of problem??
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Hi athomas13.  I am sorry you are having this difficulty.  I had an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion, (level 1, C5 - C6) done and suffered for almost 2 years afterwards.  You could be allergic to the titanium plate, which more than likely contains nickel or other alloys in it.  You can have testing to see if this is your problem.  The name of the test is melisa and they have a web site at melisa dot org.  I can't put the web address on this site because it will be removed.  The lab I used was in NJ and they were very helpful.  You can call there and get some answers about the testing.  If this is your problem you can have a revision surgery in most cases.  Usually you have to wait for 6 months if you had a fusion to make sure it has fused before the revision can be performed.  
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I had my harware removed at 10:30 this morning central time. It took 1/2 hour. The Doctor said he found: metalosis, a nonsuppurative osteomyelitis that occurs around metal implants as a result of corrosion or hypersensitivity reaction!!! I had a skin test last year to test for nickel allergy, but the dermatologist did the test wrong. His nurse thought there was a reaction but he did not. He did not recheck me 24 to 48 hours later either as he should have. He cleaned my back up and said not to come back! Then the Melissa test on my blood last year did not show a strong allergic reaction. But they said no amount is safe for "hypersensitive people." To which I am. I can't wear ear rings. 14 K causes me to react. White gold does not bother me. If you are a hyper sensitive person, this could happen to you! I have been sick since 3 weeks post op last July 2013. My fatigue and pain had multiplied! Pains in my joints all over!!!! No one would listen to me in the medical field. A sweet doctor named, Dr. Christ Cornett, MD, in Omaha, NE helped me. He was no doubt shocked to see the black hardware and screws with black powder! He blamed it on rubbing, but rubbing on what? I am taking heavy metal detox by Swanson Health.com for 90 days. I researched this on my own. I hope to get better and better as time goes by. This has been the worst year of my life! Only God saw me through and a great husband. I am also so glad for Dr. Cornett to who stuck with me. God bless him!!!!
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Hi KoniJay,


has your situation after the operation improved?
And what about your fatigue?

Please keep us informed.

Best wishes from Germany, Günter
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Hello to all. It has been about 6 weeks post op for me. I moved a household from Iowa to the West Coast during this time. I was feeling good till the move wiped me out, but I am getting back to speed here. The problem I have is that the metal shavings that they found at the C 7 - T 1 level cause osteolysis. My symptoms are coming from that area now as far as radiculopathy. I have to get a new MRI as soon as I can find a new doc. My other ortho doc said you cannot have hardware in you because of the way you react. So now what??? I need a miracle!
I had a myelogram on April 2, at UNMC, and a resident, 1st year, did the injection. I ended up with a blood patch for a CSF leak and a neurogenic bladder due to a tethered cord because that hack did not know what he was doing. No one told me he was a resident!! I also have right foot pain from that. So removing the hardware won't help me there. Hopefully time and the Baclofen I am on will.
But I will tell you my energy is way way better! And I have less joint pain. I read it could take a year for this poison to get out of the body. I am now taking Chealation supps from VitalTox EDTA Chelation 850mg, 30 Count. EDTA is best for Nickel poisoning. I also take pure whey protein smoothies. They help to bind to the metals and remove them from your body. And also metals bind to fat cells and stay there. So a low carb high protein diet is what I try to follow to lose that fat.
I was taking 4 or more anti histamines a day to get by. Now I take none. So that tells you a lot. I no longer choke or feel that my air way closing off. The rash is gone and I talk better. Even sing better!
Metalosis ruins bone. I just hope it did not go too far that I can't recover. I have faith that someone out there will be able to help me.
Don't ever stop looking for answers. Those doctors who shew you off and tell you it is in your head are idiots. Keep knocking on doors till someone helps you. You know your own body they don't. I am a nurse for over 30 years and I have met more idiot doctors then I can count. Thank God there are some out there who really listen, and who really care.
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I am glad to hear you are getting better.  I will pray that you have a complete recovery.  

Gone are the days that we should allow a doctor decide our medical issues.  We have to educate ourselves and if we can't, our better half needs to step in and do it for us.

All my best.  Please continue to report your progress.  I am going to check out the supplements you suggested for nickel.
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My husband has been in agony for over 7 yrs because of his allergic reaction to the titanium hardware in his back. The surgeon told him "Nobody is allergic to titanium!", called him a drug-seeker, and dismissed him.

Could you please give me the contact info for the surgeon who recognized your symptoms and helped you? What I'm curious about its whether my husband's doctor should have recognized an allergic reaction to the titanium a few weeks after his surgery, or whether it was really believed by the orthopedic community at that time that there was no such thing. He's been to SO many doctors seeking help, and they tell him he's imagining it or lying about it or just drug-seeking. His lower back where the bolts are always feels so much hotter than the rest of him, and he's in so much pain. We'd love to find the right doctor to help.
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I know this wasn't addressed to me, but there is lab testing to see if the titanium, or more likely the alloys in the titanium are causing this reaction.  Go to Melisa.org.  I use the lab in NJ.  There is a doctor there that will answer you questions, she is wonderful.  Her name is Dr. Valentine-Thon.

If you give your general location, maybe someone will be able to give you a name of a doctor.  I am in the Houston, Tx area if that is of any help.  I had my titanium plate removed two years ago and it was the best thing I ever did.  Prior to that surgery, I thought I was dying.
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I had surgery and they put clips in me...the doctor who put them in didn't believe I was reacting...said no one does....well he was wrong...went to this doctor...and my whole life went back to normal...I was so sick when they were in...go read my story on July 2011...but any way this doctor said to refer to him to remove them...he is truly one of the best...Dr. Tiesenga...Elmwood park ,Illinois....708-453-6800...he will help you...he is a great guy...good luck  Linda
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Have you had an allergy test done?  My implants have been bothering me for over 7 1/2 years, and finally a doctor agreed that I needed the test.  I was deemed SEVERLY ALLERGIC to titanuim.  The this that is infuriating to me is that the doctors do not believe the amount of pain I am in.  I know what you are going through with the feeling useless, worthless, and disbelieved by everyone.  I hope that all goes better for you!  Please have the test as soon as possible if you can.
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I had an artificial disc c4-c5 about 9 months after surgery. I started developing muscle twitches, fatigue, muscles ache, I can hardly walk or move at times. Severe anxiety and heart palpitations. I have had every test you could imagine. One doctor says I have Lupus and another doctor says I don't. I also had my gallbladder removed and now deal with severe stomach issues. which has a clip where they removed the gall bladder. I asked my spine doctor if I could be allergic to titanium and he said there is hardly anyone allergic to titanium, he also informed me that there was nickel in the implant also. None of these issues started until after my neck surgery. prior to this surgery I was very active and healthy. Now I can't even leave my home. Any suggestions?
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I have had 13 surgeries in my spine. They have used titatium screws and rods from the t-12 down to l-3. My body swells up all over I cant breathe. My legs swell up so bad I have headaches and severe muscle spasms there getting to go in and put cement in where all my screws are and replace the screws back in the cement. My bones are so thin from osteoporosis that the screws are staying in place. Does anyone know if this will work before I let them cut me up again. I cant take much more. The pain is so bad. I need advise.
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Hello Simba,


this is Guenter from Germany.
Sad to hear about your situation but it sounds familiar!
Unfortunately I am nearly in the same situation since I received an artificial disc (Prodisc L)  12 years ago.
My symptoms started 4,5 month after the operation.

I suffer from:

- Severe chronic fatigue
- problems with concentration
- headache
- cold sweat
- panik attacks
- foggy head and dizzyness/swindle

So I would like to know the name of your "product".
Please let me know, if you have the "Prodisc" and when did they put the disc in your body.
It would be very kind if we could stay in contact.

best wishes, Günter

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I have rods in my neck, titanium pin in my shoulder and the 3years ago my ankle fused with multiple screws, then a plate in my wrist.  I've developed a itchy rash mainly on my legs.  All dermatologist say it is a form of dermatitis.  Nothing relieves the itching and rashes.  I go to bed every night with ice packs.  That seems to be the only real relief I can get.  Can anyone help.
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I had a cow bone at C5-C6, then 6 years later screws C3-C4 and a plate C4-C5. I have reoccurring throbbing pain at my incision site anterior every 3 months or so. It has sent me to the hospital every time. I have no rash at all. I keep asking my doctor, I am allergic to all metal except white gold and gold. I have had all the tests done, zero results. Does anyone with experience think I could be allergic to my implant. The pain is excruciating.
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I am in a similiar situation.  I am one year after replacement and my knee is tight as a rock. rom is 120 but tight and warm and inflamed.  the surgeon said it's just tempermental.  my orthopod who monitors me thinks it may be allergic reaction.  I just used prednisone for a week and am going on anti-inflamatory drugs for a week.  my implant is titanium.

how did they test to figure out that was the problem?
where are you located and could we talk?

thanx
***@****
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Just one word...LAWSUIT!
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help.the day of them put in.i was not told they were putting them in.but my joints are in constant pain & stiffness.i need them out.my insurance will cover them.i need a doc in Michigan.
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Can I ask who did the Melisa test???  I am having trouble finding someone to do it.  Thank you
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Hi I too have allergies to Titanium Dioxide as I researched many meds that I was on and found it in most as fillers. It is in antibiotics either under titanium dioxide as a filler or the name of Opadry II 85F19316 clear. These are the same thing. I cant take any antibiotics due this. I also am allergic to Red and Yellow dye so it affects me taking my thyroid medication. I will have to see if I can have my thyroid meds done at a compound pharmacy.
We need to be our own advocate for our health. Blessings to you as you pursue finding out what is in most meds.
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Hi:  I had a knee replacement a year ago and it was not the titanium but the nickel, cobalt, chrome and was just tested.  It confirmed that I am highly allergic to the nickel and they now want to replace it with the titanium knee.  Do you know of any other material they use?  I have had all the same symptoms you reported.  Swelling, pain and it is hot and it turns purple when in hot water.  
Please let me know how you are doing?
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I've had heavy metal toxicity and it was horrible. Drs couldn't diagnose it has to pray and have God reveal what caused my malaise in a dream and was tested by a laboratory in Ashville, NC Great Smokies Lab or now called Genova, Geneva? Laboratory who do metal testing from hair samples. Most Drs don't get environmental illnesses as not trained to know. I may have titanium stuff now due to screws in ankle. My advice ... find an environmental Dr and/or get tested at that lab, also, pray earnestly for God's healing power as both the old and new testaments speak that by the wound's of Christ we are healed. In the old, it was prophetic of the messiah to come and in the new it was after He arrived. Best to you, my friend.
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I tried...the office lost my notes...the ones that showed my allergies ....figure that...hummmmmmm.....
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I am in Highland Utah and had 2 dental implants in September.  Problems ever since and had one removed but still experiencing fatigue, problems with focus/recall and nausea.  Where did you have your testing done and where?  I'm having a difficult time finding someone who will agree to do the testing and also take my insurance.  Any pointers would be welcome!!

Carma52
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HI Carma, the place of the  test is on the net...it's called the melisa test...I had it...it showed I was allergic to titanium...and my insurance covered it...good luck...Linda
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Thanks.  I know about the Melisa Test but haven't found a doc yet to do it.  Seeing an allergist tomorrow so hopefully they will.
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To Whom it may Concern, Hello there, I am so very interested in your story because I have an implant in my Cervical Spine to fuse two vertebra's together. I have had so many different symptom's ever since and my health has declined in so many ways that it is ruining my life and will to live through this much longer.. The doctors don't want to admit that this is actually happening to me and treating me like a mentally deranged person instead. Even calling me Bi Polar and saying that I am imagining all of this..This is the second time that a doctor had put this into my cervical Spine after five years of hell, the first doctor removed it and I had regained my health again and was working again until my fusion collapsed in 2012.. The doctor that operated on me in 2012 put the Titanium plate back into my neck, even though I had a bracelet on saying allergic to Titanium and Penicillin.. So, I get to live through this hell twice in one lifetime... Seriously, I thought about suicide for three months after this last surgery and it is so hard this time finding a doctor to remove this again so that I can heal again and make my life better..  
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10 Years ago I had a spinal fusion. Titanium pins and screws were put in. Afterwards I was in more pain than before the op. I went back to the dr that did the op. He said I'll have to wait 9 months before he could remove the implants. 5 ops later the neuro surgen wanted to implant a neuro stimulator. I told him that I am allergic to titanium. He said not to worry he is going to put the stimulator in a pouch. Afterwards I suffered from severe pain in the leg. No painkiller took the pain away. Then he decided to put a morphine pump in. Since I had the morphine pump I was sooooo sick, I thought I was going to die. Then I insisted that he take both the stimulator and the morphine pump (witch was also titanium) out. It is 3 years later and I still suffer from severe back pain and Fibromiagia. Is there anybody out there that can give me advice please????
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I broke broke the off my proximal humorus and broke the head in many place and split down the proximal humorus and had a titanium plate and screws put in 7 weeks later I fell over and broke my humorus in half. I am 12 months on and after complaining and being told the pain in my bicep and deltoid is something I have to put up with it until physiotherapy helps to fix my frozen shoulder which happened because I was too long in not being able to move my arm. Well last week I would not leave the surgeons office after speaking with an intern who did another X-ray on my arm to say all the breaks had healed. I said I knew this but the problem is with all the pain I get in the muscles and hot over where the plate is and lumps in my arm which at times harden with the muscle and feel like rocks in under the skin and the muscle feels like a weighted brick and just as hard. He got hold of another doctor and he too said there was nothing but to wait it out until I told them there had to be something that could be done because I was just barely holding on and the pain is becoming worse and to take painkillers is not an option because I need to work and could not afford to fall asleep at my desk. I insisted on finding out more. They then went and got the head orthopaedic surgeon who after asking me a series of questions about if I was allergic to rings etc which I said I could not wear my rings for long because I would get psoriasis from them and I could not have pierced ears because I would get lumps in the holes and they would weep and be sore for days. I told him also over the area of the plate to touch my skin at times feels like someone is slicing my skink open. He stood up and said he was convinced I was allergic to the metal plate and screws and booked me in to have surgery to get the plate out. I am due to have the op 2 weeks from today. I can't wait. I too now know I am not going crazy and I knew something was wrong for months but no one would listen to me. My GP did tell me after 4 months of pain that I should not be having then pain but he himself was unsure as to why and told me to persist with the surgeon. Which I am glad I did. So people please believe in you gut instinct and push hard to find out WHY? Do just stand for BECAUSE IT JUST IS.  I will keep you posted post op. BTW I also tried to tell them about constant pain from my elbow down into my hands but they told me that is just referred pain as the brain thinks there should be pain there when there is not. I had rounds of acupuncture but nothing fixed the pain for very long. Well guess what? I had to have an MRI done on my neck to see why I have carpel tunnel syndrome down my left hand and they found my C5 & C6 have a herniated disc which is what is causing the pain from the elbow down and across my clavical and down between my shoulder blades, and also the pain in my hand which I have complained of since the day after my accident 12 months ago. Funny I have a bike accident but they never checked my neck for injury. A lesson learnt in make sure you are checked for everything when you have an accident, before they operate. I will keep you posted post op.
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I broke the head off I meant to say
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if you call the number on the site of the test...they will give you a doctor in your area that will do it...sorry it took me so long to answer...good luck..Linda
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***@****      Contact for a person that works in the USA with Melisa organization. She wil be able to give local information/contact numbers for doctors/labs that can perform blood testing in your area.
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***@**** (sorry it didn't post my copy and past before.)
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It still won't let me post her emai.  It is    Marieloughlin @  neuro relief. .  Com.    No apaces when you address it
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I would really do the detox slowly. It can cause tremendous problems. DB
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When your metal plate was removed, was it replaced with something else?
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we had mellisa test after 15 months battling with dermatoligists and surgeons as I had a titanium alloy implants in my back .it came back strongly positive and now they don't reconioze the test in uk so refusing to take it out and replace it with something ele anyone had theres replaced if so what with ?
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I had a TKN and 7 months I pushed the issue with my Orthopedic doctor that something is wrong. Sure enough it came unglued. I really think the physical therapist broke it loose. I then had a revision with a rod placement too. It has been 14 months. I am still in so much pain. My knee has been constantly swollen and feverish. Sometimes it swells half way done my shin. My leg sticks and I have to force it straight. I am very active but my leg feels like it is going to colapse. I have had it drained with a steroid injection and that was the best I have felt but that lasted a very short time and then the pain and swelling returned with a vengeance. I'm at my wit's end!!
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I had a TKN and 7 months I pushed the issue with my Orthopedic doctor that something is wrong. Sure enough it came unglued. I really think the physical therapist broke it loose. I then had a revision with a rod placement too. It has been 14 months. I am still in so much pain. My knee has been constantly swollen and feverish. Sometimes it swells half way done my shin. My leg sticks and I have to force it straight. I am very active but my leg feels like it is going to colapse. I have had it drained with a steroid injection and that was the best I have felt but that lasted a very short time and then the pain and swelling returned with a vengeance. I'm at my wit's end!!
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Omg I had my surgery 2 years ago and my headache are horrible and my neck and shoulder and arm on my right side 2 weeks after and they said its muscle spasms and gave me meds till this day I am in so much pain I can't even get out of bed sometimes the doctors can't find anything wrong
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I had a Stryker knee replacement and developed systemic "nickel"poisoning.   Titanium is not a metal unto itself it has many metals.I then had a Smith & Nephew revision but the "nickel"poisoning is getting worse.  So think about the nickel which is part of the "titanium".
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I had a Stryker knee replacement and developed systemic "nickel"poisoning.   Titanium is not a metal unto itself it has many metals.I then had a Smith & Nephew revision but the "nickel"poisoning is getting worse.  So think about the nickel which is part of the "titanium".
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I had foot surgery in May and had two screws and a pin placed in my foot.  Two weeks later the doctor removed the pin and that same day I began to have random swelling and hives all over my body and
I felt like I was always tired and in a fog. It increased in intensity to the point I had to go to the ER because my face and tongue swelled so large.  I went to a Dermatologist and Allergist and asked each if it was possible that I was reacting to the screws because I have a history of not being able to wear jewlry and breaking out in hives from touching metal.  Both said that it was not in any way related to the screw, they ran blood tests to make sure there was no major issue and put me on steroids and three different antihistamines and told me I could have this for life.  I went back to the podiatrist and he removed the screws five weeks ago.  I immediately had more energy and felt like the fog was gone.  Slowly the hives almost totally stopped and I have not had one case of major swelling on my body (which was happening up to two times a week before the screws removed). I am now off the steroids but still taking the antihistamines because I wake up each morning with minor eye swelling and still have some swelling in my mouth throughout day (it comes and goes) and some random hives that last a short time.  Can anyone tell me how long it will take to be completely recovered?  I am also wondering if my reaction to the screws caused me to become sensitized to my metal fillings and taht is why most of the remaining issues are in my mouth, has this happened to anyone?
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I know for a fact that your symptoms are textbook for titanium allergies. I am an orthopedic RN and I have reject all metals including titanium that were used in my surgerys . All metal had to be removed because my body usually rejected it and the metal screw or plate migrated. I also became infected and sometimes my body would encapsulate the metal and form a cyst that was then removed. I too had similar symptoms of a low grade fever, headaches, sinus infection, extreme fatigue, nausea and over all body aches. My joints even started swelling. I had the MELSNA metal testing but I strongly recommend that you push the issue with your physician and get that metal  hardware removed. Surgeons can be arrogant and stubborn but this is your body and your life. If he won't remove it then find a surgeon who will. I would also file a complaint against the surgeon at the hospital that he works at. That will get his attention. If you get the metal after by test showing that you have allergies to metals then they have no reason to deny your request. Good luck.
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I have had the 360 flip major back surgery with 7 screws and 2 vertebre.  I could not sit back in a chair you could feel each screw in my back and that it was hot to touch.  Only after the bone graft was complete after 1 year, they took 5 screws and a few brackets out.  I have been read about titanium. Curious about metal poisoning and sensitivity that they should have tested us for before inserted titanium!!!  There is an article of how metal poisoning  exerbates. Auto immune disorders such as inflammation and symptoms exactly what you describe and what I am also going through myself.  Class action!
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I am very allergic to metals. I break out in hives now, from stainless steel. The surgeon who performed a lumbar fusion in 2007, was aware of my allergy. I've asked other docs. And specialist if being allergic to metals could be a reason for such severe nerve pain after implantation of metals. I've had answers that it is almost unheard of... To have an allergic reaction to titanium. I'm unsure if that's what is causing my disabiling pain. Seems the surgeons I've talked to about that fusion that made things so much worse...avoid the subject of my fused spine all together. Others have asked me... Why did they fuse your spine? One specialist said. " You helped line that surgeons pockets"! I did what ever the surgeon suggested to finished a nursing degree. Still a single mother... Have been disabled since 2009. Is there any help for persons suffering every day from severe nerve pain from spine fusions? I feel badly for my son's as its gotten to the point were I spend half my time laying in bed. Seems I have a target painted on my forhead. Feel very discriminated against for what I have been informed... The only treatment option, opiod pain medicine that doesn't cover the pain. I'm trying to keep my chin up. I feel that even if did not have a cage implanted, should receive some help for changing my life, the lives of my 16 year old son's! I believe there should be a class action available for anyone who received what later has been diagnosed as having a failed lumbar fusion. I would sure appressiate anyone to respond. Or contact me, my2chaydens1 @ yahoo.
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Hello,

thank you all who reported about titanium related health problems. It helps to bring out the truth.

My symptoms began with itching, tinnitus, coughing, hayfever. Then sinusitis, asthma, burning sensations. Later on headache, brainfog, sensitivity to chemicals and some more. I visited many doctors, had 3 sinus surgeries and a lot of  medicine, but all went worse. I lost one third of my lung function and my sense of smell totally.

It took me 3 years of desperate search to find the main reason for my health problems. If other people would not have written about this, maybe I would be searching still today.

It turned out that the same week when it all began, all laserprinters at my workplace were replaced. The new printers and also the printed paper emitted toner powder, because it was poorly attached to the paper.  

That toner contained  TITANIUM.

If inhaled, titanium(dioxide) nanoparticles are able to cross the blood-air barrier of the lung and spread through the whole body. I believe it is the reason I had symptoms similar to those caused by titan implants.

A blood test showed TNF-alpha and IL1-beta reaction to titanium and to the toner particles. A genetic test confirmed sensitivity to titanium particles.

To prevent further lung damage, I avoided every contact to laserprinters and  laserprinted  / copied paper (not easy to do).
Lung and sinuses improved strongly within the next months. Today I only need one of up to 3 parallel asthma medicines and only a fraction of  the former dose.

Hayfever has disappeared completely. I suppose that the printer emissions upset my immune system and so it reacted to harmless natural substances like pollen.

Some symptoms still remain. It takes long time to get particles out of the body. Chelating therapy (EDTA, DMPS, ALA) had bad side effects. Probably it can't remove particles. Frequent sauna, exercise and therapeutic fasting seemed to help.

At first, I could not believe that such widespread apparatus like laserprinters and copiers could be a real health risk. But maybe it is the same sad story as with asbestos.

The foundation nano-control reports that printer emissions often contain also other poisonous substances and heavy metals.

ChriB (Germany)
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My sister had neck surgery with titanium screws put in. About 6 months later her blood platelets began decreasing and now her hemoglobin and red and white blood cells are also decreasing. This has been going on for at least 5 years. Doctors tell her she is a candidate for a bone marrow transplant. They call her condition MDS which is mylodysplastic syndrome. Had much fatigue and body aches/pain all over. Any chance titanium allergy can affect bone marrow/blood?
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I have a question, I tested positive for Titanium and nickel and they took my plate out of my neck, but refuse to replace the clips that they put in when gallbladder was removed. I have pain, rashes and feel like I have a constant allergic response going on. they said they can't fix the clip situation, they have nickel and Titanium. Any advice on a path to proceed on.
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HI llrascal, I had the same surgery...and yes the clips can be removed....and nothing has to go back in...I had a different doctor remove them...it's very easy...scope...
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