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Manic Depressive Bi Polar 15 year old and school issues

Hi,
I'm hoping someone can give me some direction with this. I have a 15 year old son who was diagnosed Manic depressive bi polar, mood disorder, anxiety/panic attacks, OCD tendencies and takes saraquel (total of 250 mg) 1 extended pill @ 3pm and 1 fast acting pill @ bedtime. This medication was recently changed (He was taking 250 mg fast acting once at bedtime). The switch is because he cannot get up in the mornings and go to school and he's on the verge of truancy. I have contacted the school, sent in paperwork from his counselor to prove his condition and all and requested a 504 (medical) meeting twice with no return call. The school will not set up an appointment nor will they excuse him for any days missed due to the medication he Has to take. My son has always hated school up until this year, he started high school and he loves it. I try from 5 am on to wake him up to get him to school with little result (also I'm a single mom with no help). I've talked to his counselor who says just let him take the consequences of truancy, the school won't even call to try to set up a meeting to help my son and all I hear out of his pediatrician is that he's faking it to lay out. I'm at my wits end with all of them. My son has a legitimate mental illness which they diagnosed and takes medicine that they prescribed him and know makes him tired and unable to function yet when he needs them now because of truancy issues they all stab him in the back and tell me to deal with it. I'm mad as he** and I'm not going to stand for this and leave my son to take consequences for something that is not his fault nor did he ask for. Can anyone please tell me what I can do to help him? I know homeschooling is an option, but my son doesn't want to because he loves school and his counselor is dead set against it saying it'll cause him social issues and can cause him to have episodes. I really want him to stay in school since he loves it so  much and is really enjoying the subjects and interactions with friends, teachers and others, but I don't know what else to do and I feel like his rights are being trampled on by the school because they won't even set up a 504 (medical) meeting to discuss his issues. Am I wrong to think that they are supposed to try and work with him/me on this situation? Am I wrong to think that his own counselor should stand behind him knowing the illness and the medication he takes and am I wrong that I want to punch his pediatrician in the face for saying he's just wanting to lay out every time he gets sick when the doc himself has diagnosed him with bronchitis sinus infections etc? I just need someone who will stand with me behind my son instead of against him.
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Avatar universal
I am glad as well that you have a case manager and communications has opened up. I also understand feeling so strongly about advocating someone, especially children, to willingly risk going to jail for it, but, seriously, I doubt jail is a possibility for ypu, because we would have most mothers serving time for looking after the interests of their children.

I would ask the case worker, if the hearing with the judge is not in the morning and your son is awake enough to sit outside the hearing room with a trusted friend or family, if your son can be vailable if the judge would like to interview him in his chamber. The big point here is that ypur son WANTS to go to school, and he's not trying to get out of it but in it. There are times when it's more what the parents want without  focusing on children's needs and best interest.

It will most likely be a compromise with deadlines and  future heaings or meetings assessing the progress of your son's situation and making adjustments. what Crystal said about homeschooling is very true. I know adults who have gone through homeschooling as children and had great conversations with children going through homeschooling and met their teacher with them. I am impressed by their socializatipn skills and confidence, their brightness, and their enthusiasm to learn. Howver, your son  does like the school environement, paticipates in it when he's there, doesn't sound like he disrupts educatipn for others, and the opportunities it provides. A combinatipn of home schooling and taking afternoon classes or participating in school activites is one solution, qnd it depends if the school is willing to do this or it doesn't compromise their funding status. I think it would be possible, because I know high school students who attend school that is adjusted for them because they also hold jobs, sometimes 2 parttime jobs to help their families, and go to achool at the same time...a very hard life, but no one gives up on them. Also, due to certain situatons, some do not even have any family member standing up for them.

I keep you in my heart, mind and in prayer. Keep us updated if you can!



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Avatar universal
I'm so glad you have a case manager. Hopefully you will get what you want.
The school has to help you, it's the LAW. I don't know why this guidance counselor is being so difficult. I would ask the principle to assign him another counselor and this might also help going thru the process with the case manager. As far as home bound. My friend is a home bound teacher for high school and the students learn a lot. I think it is a shame to have to resort to this, all because of a medicine when you have options. Like you suggested finding the right dose or combo. Keep in mind Seraquel is not the only drug out there for adolescents with bipolar. He is losing time at school, it has been in session for quite some time. In my opinion the dr needs to speed up the plan considering how long they have been in school already.
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Avatar universal
Update:
I have contacted his psychiatrist and counselor and they have started the paperwork on a case manager as we speak so hopefully by next week or the following week he will have someone on his side going to the school for meetings, etc. explaining his condition, the meds and their affects on my son and being the "referee" so to speak between myself and the school.
I also spoke to them about his medication and they want me to give it till Monday to see if things get better, but he didn't finish last week off with any improvement so we'll see on that. His counselor also mentioned putting him back on homebound again. I'm trying to keep that from happening, but I've also had to face that that may be his only option and I've spoken to him about that being something that may be a have to situation if worse comes to worse and the school won't cooperate.
I was also told by his pharmacist yesterday the same thing mentioned above about his medication. Too low dosage and it's nothing more than a sleep aid and it will not help with his mood disorder. So, continually working on the dosage and times to get just the right combo may take some time, but he's doing very well as far as the Bi polar/mood disorder part at the dosage he currently takes so not sure we should lower it anymore than he's at now for that concern.
My son is upset that he's missing and going in late. The school is already threatening ISS for being late more than the three times they are allotted, but in my eyes late is better than missing all day and not making an effort to go at all or sleeping through and not getting up till around 11 am.
I know it's coming because he missed Thurs and Fri with no doctor's note (and slept till 11 am both mornings) so I'm just prepared to go in front of the judge with printed material explaining his condition and printed material on the medication and explain this mess to him and the schools not cooperating with me and see what happens. I'm praying the judge will understand and not send my son off, but we all know how that goes. I will fight for him and if they want to throw me in jail then so be it.
Thank you all for all your help and suggestions. I feel much better about things and know that he does have rights and options. I am working to get the things done that you all have suggested and hopefully now with the case manager on my sons side things will get better.
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Avatar universal
The fact that I'm not a doctor (yet) is why I qualified the statement.  Seroquel is really weird from a neurotransmitter standpoint, but you'd be better off with someone else if you want the details explained to you, because I'm not the best on them.  It's still a drug with a somewhat paradoxical dose response in terms of sedation (25 mg good for sleep vs 600 mg good for mood stabilization with less sedation), complicated by being used in an adolescent, which is why I suggested looking into another option.  It's something we suggest here all the time, and I carefully added the "talk to your doctor about pros and cons" thing.  And when I last read up on it, for some odd reason risperdal was one of the only AAPs studied in/approved for in children and adolescents.  And things that are approved are more likely to be given consideration than things that aren't approved.  I don't find it very useful to suggest someone look for other options if I know anything about what those options could be.  All drugs have risks, and I would be remiss if I told someone to maybe switch to something else without mentioning that fact.

And yes, GIEPs are probably less involved than the IEPs.  I was just stating my personal experience with that whole system (and they really are part of the same program as far as I know--a gifted individualized education plan).  I think they would have had more meetings if I had learning disabilities as well (like one of those insanely smart but autistic kids) or if my parents had wanted to.  Your experience with the system is undoubtedly more useful in this case, though.
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Avatar universal
Your comparing  GIEP ( which I've never heard of) to aa IEP. An IEP is extremely helpful to kids to help them make it thru school. There are no comparing apples to apples here. In addition I can assure you that there are regular meetings with parents, teachers  and the student. Sometimes together, sometimes seperate. It is quite extensive and by law conditions must be met in order to help the student.

We need to keep in mind that we are not dr's. Everybody's different when it comes to meds. A lower dose may help him, we don't know, everyone is diff. Regardless, what he is taking now is not allowing him to wake up and function for school. As I stated before, trying a diff med would be wise if they can't get this one to work soon. You suggested Risperdal but then you attached a negative to it. Hopefully the dr he has is polished with children, is good and can come up with the right med for him. We all know it's all trial and error.

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Avatar universal
Actually, with seroquel, going too far down on the dose might make the sleepiness worse, due to weird dose-dependent effects on different receptors/neurotransmitters.  Even at 100 mg in adults, it tends to act more as an antihistamine than an antipsychotic, which is why it sometimes gets used as a sleep aid.  At 300 mg, it's actually supposed to be less sedating than at 100 mg, although some people seem to experience sedation at any dose.  

So if the over-sedation continues, you should probably look into another drug.  I believe risperdal is actually one of the only AAPs studied in kids, and does have an approval for aggression/agitation in autistic children.  It should also be less sedating than seroquel.  It does have its risks, but consider asking the psychiatrist about the pros and cons of changing.  

I had a GIEP (gifted IEP) in school, and while I was the child involved and not the adult, I remember that all my teachers had to do written evaluations that were compiled, and I think they had to meet with my parents once a year to discuss my progress.  The whole thing basically translated into teachers saying "well, you could do this extra work on top of what I've already given you", so it wasn't all that useful.  But they did have to do a whole bunch of meeting and evaluating, and I would assume they would have to do even more over an IEP, especially for the setup.  

What does your son have to say about sleeping in?  Is he disappointed every time he doesn't get up and misses school or is late?
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Avatar universal
IEP stands for Individualized Educational Plan. It is for individuals who have a disability under the law. A 504 is also for the same. You can google IEP and get more info. It will also tell you the diff between a 504 and an IEP. An IEP is more involved than a 504. My son had an IEP for ADHD which is considered a disability just like bipolar is a disability. Google Amazon.com. They have books, some small and to the point on IEP's. Also look up Individuals with Disibilities Education Act (IDEA) to help you.

I understand they lowered the Seraquel. If it is working, great. But, the sleeping is the problem. Don't be afraid to have it lowered again and possibly another time. The dosage is too high if that is his reaction to it. It's possible that eventually he will get to the right dose that not only helps him but solves the sleeping issues. Dr's have a standard book they go by for dosaging. The problem with doing that is they might start the patient off too high instead of starting out low and working their way up. This has happened to me several times until I figured it out. I am very sensitive to medication and require a much lower dose than the average person. Be your son's advocate, you know him better than the Dr. I work with my dr but I am in charge as to how much med I can take. After a while the Dr gets on the same page and realizes that this person doesn't need such and such amount of med in order for it to work. I tell you this just to make you aware.

Let me know if you need any help with the school, what to ask for etc. Good luck with your meetings. Be nice to get what you want but at the same time be firm and don't take no for an answer. I'm sorry you have to work so hard for this, not all schools are this difficult.
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Avatar universal
Glad to help a mother who loves her son and fights for him. It does not sit well with me that people just give up on him and not even give him the chance that is available to hin and throw him aside. Ot sounds like they are burnout or just want to keep things simple for themselves. There actions are all about them, not your son or even the community at large. Your son's future and well being is important to everyone.   Sure, it takes effort and more attention  to give him the education he deserves, and every child counts. that counselor who is lazy and shortsided, and i'm not particularly impressed with such a narrow, judgmental view the pediatrician has I only have adiration and respect for you, and I am certain you are a wonder to be the mother you are and your son knows how much you care about him and his future. If you get to an obstacte, need support, just post again. Keep us updated. I will put you on my watch list. When you write your email/letter, make it clear that you want the 504 meeting to give your son the fighting chance to be educated and not discarded just because he has a medical condition and that the medical issues can be dealt with. i used to be "snowed" on Seroquel for the first few months on the drug, but eventually, the sleepiness wore off, and i was able to function well without feeling sleepy. When I complained to my doctor i needed to be more awake, he did something about it.

Your figt will not only make things better for you son but for others, i'm pretty sure they are just throwing other children out of the loop just to not be bothered by them. When children get thrown away to be truants, it only makes it harder for them to get back into the flow of things. The odds are way against them, once that road is travelled on, and it takes a lot out of them to fight back to get in and it is bad for the community and country at large. In other words, if they close the door on him, it will only bite everyone in the behind for a very long and costly time, It will be painful for all of us. Then, you get this question, "How could this have happen?" The troubles ahead if your son gets set aside to be on the truant road will not only be problems just for your son and the family, but everyone else. We are all invested in your son.

If possible, I would have his psychiatrist talk to the pediatrician about your son's condition. It doesn't sound like the pediatrician has a good handle on your son's mental illness. It isn't his specialty. Let's just hope his ego doesn't get in the way to be open to listen to another doctor in a different specialty. He's probably a grat pediatrician, but he's a little short in just saying your son is "putting on an act." That's an assumption and I'm sure he doesn't have any real findings to support that opinion. Ask your psychiatrist if she is willing to do this if your son and  you like and want to keep your pediatrician.

I wish you and your son well.
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Avatar universal
Thank you so much for all this. I have so many things to do now that can help him and I appreciate you listing all to write to too get my son the help he needs.
I will also be putting this into action as well as the other responses to make sure he gets the help he needs.
Thank all of you again for everything. I feel better now knowing which direction to go in and how to get there.
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Avatar universal
Crystal413,
Thank you so much for the help. Can I ask what an IEP is and where I located one so I know where to start?
I have contacted his psychiatrist  this morning and am awaiting a call back on the medication. She changed the dosage just last week for the sleeping issues and wants to try this before considering changing the meds totally because it is working well for his bi polar, with the only side effect being the sleepiness. His psychiatrist has lowered the dosage once so far. He was taking 300 mg now he's down to 250mg for the last two weeks, but the sleepiness and inability to get up and function has been going on since he started taking this med.
No, I haven't spoken to the principal or the school board, but I will. I have tried to contact the counselor twice by phone since the two requests for the meetings were made with no return call from her. I was hoping to give her time to get everything together, but apparently she's "forgotten" again so this time I will contact the principal directly and then the school board if necessary.
I will speak to all of them you have suggested and see if I can get some results with anyone, but I would really like to know what the IEP is so I can get that taken care of and not have to keep going through this with him all the time.
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Avatar universal
Great  advice!! If you start out small and don't get anywhere then big is the way to go. I don't want this young man to get lost in the system.
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Avatar universal
Sorry, tried to edit my last sentence and somehow I ended  posting. "Regarding my son's educational issues as I described, I wrote to (All those State and Federal Elected officials I just told ypu to name" and the School's Superintendent, School Board members, and the Principal of the school.

Writing has more weight than calling because it leaves a paper trail and it is the legal system's best friend for documentation and proof in a court of law, especially if you have to go all the way up to the Supreme Courts. There is one thing that public schools can't stand, and that is publcity or airing out the dirty laundry and gathering political allies. For one, it can be a red flag and bring the school to scrutiny regarding educational funding on a State and Federal level. . I would also write to your City Council Rep to put "close to home" weight on them. The more people you get involved in your fight, the better. you should get one or 2 responses. Education and mental illness are important issues right now, especially in trying to prevent problems from happening before they get out of hand, so the climate is good on your favor. Just remember, all those people are not only political figures but elected officials who won elections to serve the public interest.

Send the letters out, and then call the school. What I like to do is handcarry the letter to the principal's office myself, since the school I had to fight regarding vandalism and truancy in my neighborhood was just a block away. All the people above, except the school superintendent wrote or called me up. Sometmes, certain people achoose to not respond as to "take the 5th"when they smell a lawsuit. Yes, my problem was solved. I was pretty much the only person in my neighbprhood who made a big stink, loud and strong politically.
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Avatar universal
I would contact yor state assemby representative of your county and the School Board, If, I wa in your shoes, I would also contact your federal House of Rep rep. You should wrote email to all of them. When you send an email through their office website, make sure that you keep a copy of the emails  yourself. You can save tme by just writing a "form email" and just tweaking it to whoever ypu are sending it to. In addition, Inwould also send same email to your State Board of Education or Staye Superintendent of Schools. I would even send same email to the State Attorney General. It doesn't cost anything to send, whereas for consultation with a lawyer, the usual fee is $300 to $500 /hr, and the attorney will charge you for writing and sending a letter. I wpuld work  through political channels first, especially since it involves the right to equal access to education (if it's a public school, ypu have more political weight) for everyone. When you send the enail to all, make sure you show who you wrote to as wel at the end. Such as, "regarding my son's  wrote to US senator so and so, State Attorney General so and so, etc
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Avatar universal
I don't know if he has tried other medicines but if he can't get up, I would talk to his pscychiatrist about making a change. Your son can't live like this forever and one day he's going to have to get up for a job. This med does not seem to be the right fit, sounds too strong. Perhaps a lower dosage is worth a try.

As for school. I am familiar with the 504 process that I went thru with my son. After a year we got an IEP which is what I would recommend and this will also follow him thru college. Your son has rights and they are being violated. The school can't ignore your request for a meeting to discuss this. Have you spoken to the principle? Have you gone to the school board office and ask to speak to someone who deals with this type of situation?

I would definetly change pediatricians! Besides, all your help for your sons bipolar should be coming from his pscychiatrist. Pediatricians do not specialize in mood disorders which is what your son needs.

I would also request and not take no for an answer to change guidance counselors. I know for a fact that this can be done. He is not helping at all. Basically he is not supporting you and your son. He is not doing his job. Again, a meeting with the principle to get things implemented for all of this is very necessary.

In my area we have advocates, especially for getting an IEP for your child. You certainly can go this route yourself but it often takes longer and this way you do a lot less work, meetings etc.

Just know, by law the school has to help you. You just may have to shake a few trees. Please consider what I said about the change in med or the decrease in Seraquel. Good luck to you and your son. I believe you can make this happen!


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Avatar universal
Thank you so much for giving me a direction to start in. I really appreciate it and I also believed they were breaking laws, but I'm not familiar enough to know what rights he has. I will call and see what I can find out though. Thank you again.
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Avatar universal
See if a local lawyer will write a nice note to the school.  I'm pretty sure they're breaking some law or another by refusing to meet with you, especially if it's a public school.  You could also look for patient advocacy organizations, who might be able to tell you more about your rights in this case.
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