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New to Chronic Kidney Failure
My 12.5 year old dog, Lola, was just diagnosed with chronic kidney failure. This was based on these levels:
BUN: 44mg/dL (normal range: 9-31)
CREATININE: 2.9 44mg/dL (normal range 0.5-1.5)
We are starting her on:
Hill's K/D dog food - trying out canned and dry
Enacard 5mg / day
Calcitniol 50mg / twice a week
We will go back in 30 days for a followup blood test and a urine test.
My question is - Her vet said she was "Stage 1" but looking at her Creatinine level and comparing that to what I have found online, it seems like she is "Stage 3." Which is right?
Also just wondering if you have any general advice for keeping her happy and healthy.
BUN: 44mg/dL (normal range: 9-31)
CREATININE: 2.9 44mg/dL (normal range 0.5-1.5)
We are starting her on:
Hill's K/D dog food - trying out canned and dry
Enacard 5mg / day
Calcitniol 50mg / twice a week
We will go back in 30 days for a followup blood test and a urine test.
My question is - Her vet said she was "Stage 1" but looking at her Creatinine level and comparing that to what I have found online, it seems like she is "Stage 3." Which is right?
Also just wondering if you have any general advice for keeping her happy and healthy.
Sending many prayers for Lola and hope that the chemo helps her. I have many friends who have had chemo treatments for their dogs (various cancers) and they have done well.
Keeping fingers, toes and anything else crossed for a good result.
Charlene
Keeping fingers, toes and anything else crossed for a good result.
Charlene
I hope this does help someone else. In addition to your support, posting has helped me by being my diary over the last few weeks. I go back and reread my posts sometimes to remember details.
In reading about CKD, lymphoma is one of the possible causes. Dogs with lymphoma who are not treated generally don't live long (4-6 weeks). I think this is why she was declining so fast, but maybe that's not unusual with CKD.
Her case of lymphoma is unusual because it appears to have begun in the kidneys. That's more common in cats.
Thanks again for the support and I will continue to post updates.
Hi. Well, you and Lola are certainly "going through the mill". On the plus side, you now know exactly what's wrong - and that means positive treatment targeted at the lymphoma. I know this is very early days, but I hope things work out and the chemo does it's stuff. Thanks for giving such a comprehensive update. It does help to know where things are at - and it may help others with dogs that have similar symptoms.
The fact she is eating green tripe is great, because it does have lots of energy-boosting nutrition, minerals and vitamins. I cook it for my dogs too, simply because they aren't used to eating a raw diet.
I'm truly keeping my fingers crossed for your next update ... you certainly are giving Lola every chance possible, and I hope you are rewarded with good news at your next assessment appointment.
Tony
The fact she is eating green tripe is great, because it does have lots of energy-boosting nutrition, minerals and vitamins. I cook it for my dogs too, simply because they aren't used to eating a raw diet.
I'm truly keeping my fingers crossed for your next update ... you certainly are giving Lola every chance possible, and I hope you are rewarded with good news at your next assessment appointment.
Tony
Thank you, Tony. From March 9th, it was the ER vet that suggested we may have to consider euthanasia in the coming weeks if she continued to decline. Her prognosis was "guarded."
I have another update. As I mentioned on March 16, Lola's new vet suggested doing a CT scan to see what was causing the blockage to her left kidney causing the hydronephrosis/hydroureter. Surgery to remove the blockage could be an option to possibly give her back some function in the left kidney. We debated whether or not to have the CT scan / contrast study done because we weren't eager to do surgery at her age (13).
Ultimately, I called one of the specialty places my vet suggested that did CT scans. After not having a good weekend with her, I decided to take her there for an office visit and get more information. The first thing they suggested was doing another ultrasound to check the status of the blocked kidney. The two ultrasounds we had done previously didn't show the blockage and I wasn't crazy about paying for another one. But the vet gave me good reasons to do another one and we did. That was on March 23.
The ultrasound gave new information - both kidneys were enlarged and abnormal, the blockage was no longer present, and there was a mass in her liver. This doctor also said that her front lymph nodes were enlarged when she did her examine. Aspirations were taken from the kidneys, liver mass, and lymph nodes. Results came a few days later and the diagnosis is lymphoma. The cancer is in her kidneys and liver.
On Friday, we met with an oncologist. He went over various options with us and we ultimately decided to move forward with chemotheraphy. She had her first treatment that day. The bloodwork before chemo showed a Creatinine of 4.5 and BUN of 62.
Over the weekend, she didn't eat much. It was nausea because she clearly was hungry, but not eating. She was already getting Cerenia (60mg). Another nausea medicine was added to her routine and it greatly helped - Metoclopramide (5mg). She ate better yesterday. She will still only eat a limited number of things: chicken, green tripe (we are cooking it because raw food is not suggested for chemo patients), and bread. We did add eggs (mostly egg whites) to the list, so that's good. Still no veggies, rice, pasta, canned or dry commercial dog food.
We are hopeful that the chemo works and improves her quality of life.
I have another update. As I mentioned on March 16, Lola's new vet suggested doing a CT scan to see what was causing the blockage to her left kidney causing the hydronephrosis/hydroureter. Surgery to remove the blockage could be an option to possibly give her back some function in the left kidney. We debated whether or not to have the CT scan / contrast study done because we weren't eager to do surgery at her age (13).
Ultimately, I called one of the specialty places my vet suggested that did CT scans. After not having a good weekend with her, I decided to take her there for an office visit and get more information. The first thing they suggested was doing another ultrasound to check the status of the blocked kidney. The two ultrasounds we had done previously didn't show the blockage and I wasn't crazy about paying for another one. But the vet gave me good reasons to do another one and we did. That was on March 23.
The ultrasound gave new information - both kidneys were enlarged and abnormal, the blockage was no longer present, and there was a mass in her liver. This doctor also said that her front lymph nodes were enlarged when she did her examine. Aspirations were taken from the kidneys, liver mass, and lymph nodes. Results came a few days later and the diagnosis is lymphoma. The cancer is in her kidneys and liver.
On Friday, we met with an oncologist. He went over various options with us and we ultimately decided to move forward with chemotheraphy. She had her first treatment that day. The bloodwork before chemo showed a Creatinine of 4.5 and BUN of 62.
Over the weekend, she didn't eat much. It was nausea because she clearly was hungry, but not eating. She was already getting Cerenia (60mg). Another nausea medicine was added to her routine and it greatly helped - Metoclopramide (5mg). She ate better yesterday. She will still only eat a limited number of things: chicken, green tripe (we are cooking it because raw food is not suggested for chemo patients), and bread. We did add eggs (mostly egg whites) to the list, so that's good. Still no veggies, rice, pasta, canned or dry commercial dog food.
We are hopeful that the chemo works and improves her quality of life.
Sorry, that was meant to say "keep paying close attention to any low-quality protein and/or phosphorus...".
I'm trying to type too fast. Brain before fingers, as it were.
Tony
I'm trying to type too fast. Brain before fingers, as it were.
Tony
I meant to add a little earlier, but figured you were way too stressed out with other things to consider reading very much. I read in an earlier post that Lola was on calcitniol at one time. I did a piece on this relatively new "drug", which you might find of interest. You can read it here:
http://www.infobarrel.com/Calcitriol_Therapy_For_Dogs_With_Kidney_Disease
I notice on March 9th the vet was talking about euthanasia ... and I think it's fair to say, you and Lola have come a long way since that point. I know this is only a few tiny steps forward, but from what you have written, she sounds 100% better than where she was a couple of weeks ago. I know the blood levels aren't great, but maintaining the right diet and keeping up with regular fluid therapy should start showing advantages soon.
It's hard, but keeping paying close attention to any low-protein and/or phosphorus content in anything you feed ... these need to be removed completely from the diet, if possible.
Keep going. You're doing everything you can, and more, and Lola would be saying a huge thank you, if she could.
Tony
http://www.infobarrel.com/Calcitriol_Therapy_For_Dogs_With_Kidney_Disease
I notice on March 9th the vet was talking about euthanasia ... and I think it's fair to say, you and Lola have come a long way since that point. I know this is only a few tiny steps forward, but from what you have written, she sounds 100% better than where she was a couple of weeks ago. I know the blood levels aren't great, but maintaining the right diet and keeping up with regular fluid therapy should start showing advantages soon.
It's hard, but keeping paying close attention to any low-protein and/or phosphorus content in anything you feed ... these need to be removed completely from the diet, if possible.
Keep going. You're doing everything you can, and more, and Lola would be saying a huge thank you, if she could.
Tony
Thank you, Tony. I will try your suggestions.
That's really good news. I'm pleased she has taken to the green tripe. At least she's now getting some nourishment. Yes, BUN can be affected by recent meals and may take time to reduce - but it's the combination of BUN and Creatinine that's important. I'm hoping after maybe another week of doing fluids, these values may start to reduce. Also, it is worthwhile adding just a spoonful of boiled white rice to the tripe, even if she just gets a little each time, it's better than none at all.
The problem you are no doubt aware of is that eventually, unless you can get her to eat another type of meat source from time to time, she will almost certainly go off the green tripe. The food associated sickness is purely psychological, but it has a real-time effect and creates problems. Maybe keep trying human-grade chicken and even some tinned kd food in rotation every 3 days. If she doesn't eat it, then go back to the tripe for the next meal, then try again.
Also, keep to small portions more frequently, even if she seems she wants to eat more, because normal portions will cause gastric upset and start the food-associated sickness cycle again.
Good news so far, though. You're doing a great job.
Tony
The problem you are no doubt aware of is that eventually, unless you can get her to eat another type of meat source from time to time, she will almost certainly go off the green tripe. The food associated sickness is purely psychological, but it has a real-time effect and creates problems. Maybe keep trying human-grade chicken and even some tinned kd food in rotation every 3 days. If she doesn't eat it, then go back to the tripe for the next meal, then try again.
Also, keep to small portions more frequently, even if she seems she wants to eat more, because normal portions will cause gastric upset and start the food-associated sickness cycle again.
Good news so far, though. You're doing a great job.
Tony
Hi Keirson,
I'm so sorry about Scooby. I read about your journey and it is helpful to read about other people (and dog's) experiences.
I'm in Texas but I'll look into those products.
Thank you for your well wishes.
Alex & Lola
I'm so sorry about Scooby. I read about your journey and it is helpful to read about other people (and dog's) experiences.
I'm in Texas but I'll look into those products.
Thank you for your well wishes.
Alex & Lola
Hi Tony,
Lola loves the green tripe and we are thrilled! I'm so thankful to have read about it in your article. Unfortunately, we can't get her to eat much else. We're still experimenting, but so far, when we mix rice, veggies, pasta, etc, with the green tripe, she picks out what tripe she can and leaves the rest.
We did another blood test yesterday. Creatinine has crept up a little since we last checked it - now reading 3.6 mg/dL (was 3.3). The BUN was 43 and now is 71. According to her Vet: BUN is much more affected by a recent meal, so we see wide swings in that value, while the Creatinine is more our focus.
Lola loves the green tripe and we are thrilled! I'm so thankful to have read about it in your article. Unfortunately, we can't get her to eat much else. We're still experimenting, but so far, when we mix rice, veggies, pasta, etc, with the green tripe, she picks out what tripe she can and leaves the rest.
We did another blood test yesterday. Creatinine has crept up a little since we last checked it - now reading 3.6 mg/dL (was 3.3). The BUN was 43 and now is 71. According to her Vet: BUN is much more affected by a recent meal, so we see wide swings in that value, while the Creatinine is more our focus.
Hi again. Bit concerned that as you haven't posted, the green tripe wasn't successful. Any news?
Tony
Tony
Hi there,
just wanted to say welcome to this group of fab people.
I sadly lost my Scooby to CKF just 3 weeks ago, the support and advice I received during this terrible illness and since we had to say goodbye to him, has been truly amazing.
You are in good hands!
wishing you and Lola all the best
Keirson
p.s. We tried Natures Menu green tripe - in a balanced meal nugget and also the Just Tripe. Partners and Pets at Home are stockists near me - i'm not sure where you live.
just wanted to say welcome to this group of fab people.
I sadly lost my Scooby to CKF just 3 weeks ago, the support and advice I received during this terrible illness and since we had to say goodbye to him, has been truly amazing.
You are in good hands!
wishing you and Lola all the best
Keirson
p.s. We tried Natures Menu green tripe - in a balanced meal nugget and also the Just Tripe. Partners and Pets at Home are stockists near me - i'm not sure where you live.
Thanks, Tony! We are excited to try green tripe tonight. Fitting for St. Patty's day, right? (Ha). I will update you soon.
Thank you, Charlene, for the kind words. I appreciate you sharing what your vet suggested for a heartworm preventative.
sorry...my tablet messes up frequently. What I was saying...Tony is absolutely the best!! I know he helped me keep my Sammie alive for months longer than was expected. I can't provide the knowledge Tony has but wanted to let you know that when my dog developed CKF, my vet stopped the heartworm and Frontline. She did give us Revolution which is topical so that she wouldn't get heartworm.
I know how hard this is having gone through it last year. Our thoughts are always with you and we are here for you.
My best,
Charlene
I know how hard this is having gone through it last year. Our thoughts are always with you and we are here for you.
My best,
Charlene
HinAlexis. I've been following your posts and Tony's responses. He is absolu
Hi. Great news about your alternative vet. They sound more "on-the-ball" and are at least coming up with some possibilities. Finding the cause of kidney failure is very difficult and rarely straightforward, but at least they have some ideas on it. I tend to agree with you, at 13, Lola is an elderly lady and a CT scan would probably be stressful - never mind the potential of surgery. But at least they have given you hope and (sounds like) good support.
I tend to agree with you, although I detest dry food, right now just getting food into Lola is the priority. Ideally, stop the white bread hen you feel she is eating something more suitable. White bread will likely cause constipation.
Great that you are now doing SQ fluids yourself at home. This may take a few days or even a couple of weeks to have a real effect, but it's just about the best thing for Lola's condition right now.
Green tripe is just one of those things I think is fabulous for CKF dogs - it has all the right nutritional elements, it's also low in phosphorus and has an amount of high quality protein and useful minerals. It's also (usually) enjoyed by most dogs - and (hopefully) Lola will eat it. The best way of dealing with it is to cook it. It does stink, but let's face it, if Lola enjoys it, that minor inconvenience is worthwhile. I would try fairly small amounts initially - maybe a one or two inch cube, cook in the microwave at 30% setting for about 10 minutes from frozen. Use a spatula to break it up after cooking and add to a couple of tablespoons of boiled white rice. Pour in any juice from the cooking, as this also has some good minerals in it and will help flavor the rice.
If she takes to it, I would feed every couple of hours, if this is practical. If she starts associating it with feeling sickly, just hold off for three days (try simple chicken and rice or chicken mixed with a small amount of the dry food (always soak the dry food for 10mins before using it).
Okay. Let me know how things go. Good luck.
Tony
I tend to agree with you, although I detest dry food, right now just getting food into Lola is the priority. Ideally, stop the white bread hen you feel she is eating something more suitable. White bread will likely cause constipation.
Great that you are now doing SQ fluids yourself at home. This may take a few days or even a couple of weeks to have a real effect, but it's just about the best thing for Lola's condition right now.
Green tripe is just one of those things I think is fabulous for CKF dogs - it has all the right nutritional elements, it's also low in phosphorus and has an amount of high quality protein and useful minerals. It's also (usually) enjoyed by most dogs - and (hopefully) Lola will eat it. The best way of dealing with it is to cook it. It does stink, but let's face it, if Lola enjoys it, that minor inconvenience is worthwhile. I would try fairly small amounts initially - maybe a one or two inch cube, cook in the microwave at 30% setting for about 10 minutes from frozen. Use a spatula to break it up after cooking and add to a couple of tablespoons of boiled white rice. Pour in any juice from the cooking, as this also has some good minerals in it and will help flavor the rice.
If she takes to it, I would feed every couple of hours, if this is practical. If she starts associating it with feeling sickly, just hold off for three days (try simple chicken and rice or chicken mixed with a small amount of the dry food (always soak the dry food for 10mins before using it).
Okay. Let me know how things go. Good luck.
Tony
Thank you, Tony. We took her to a new Vet on Wednesday. Her Creatine level was 3.1, which is better, but could be due to not eating. I forgot to mention that the ER put a fentanyl patch on her, and I think that was effecting her desire to eat as well. The patch was removed on Wednesday at the new Vet.
He suggested trying to find out what is causing the hydronephrosis/hydroureter in her left kidney. He feels like if we can remove the blockage, she could regain some function from that kidney. The ultrasound doesn't show the blockage, so we'd have to take her to a place that does CT scans. The blockage could be a kidney stone that could be removed without surgery. Or, surgery might be the only option to remove the blockage, if removing the blockage is even possible. We haven't decided on the CT scan yet. She's almost 13 and I don't think we'd want to do surgery on her due to quality of life. I love the idea that it could be a kidney stone, but I don't get the sense that it is the most likely possibility.
The new Vet is having us stop the Enacard and Calcitniol. Lola is getting Cerenia and Mirtazapine to get her to eat. She is also getting SQ fluids at home daily. I'm also continuing the pepcid ac.
We had a small victory in that she will eat some dry food, including a Renal variety. We really don't want to give her dry food, but needed her to eat something. We are trying to get her to eat wet food or homemade food. She only wants to eat dry food which is so weird for her. She'll sometimes eat chicken and white bread, but won't eat rice, pasta, veggies, etc or ANY canned food including non-renal food varieties. I think she has a negative association with it now, like you talk about in your article.
I found a place that deliveries frozen Green Tripe to our area once a month and am picking some up tomorrow. I'm excited to try it, though I haven't figured out if I should feed it to her raw, or cook it. I read in your article that you cook it in the microwave. I'm also trying to find out how much I should give her. She's around 41 lbs.
Thank you for your support.
He suggested trying to find out what is causing the hydronephrosis/hydroureter in her left kidney. He feels like if we can remove the blockage, she could regain some function from that kidney. The ultrasound doesn't show the blockage, so we'd have to take her to a place that does CT scans. The blockage could be a kidney stone that could be removed without surgery. Or, surgery might be the only option to remove the blockage, if removing the blockage is even possible. We haven't decided on the CT scan yet. She's almost 13 and I don't think we'd want to do surgery on her due to quality of life. I love the idea that it could be a kidney stone, but I don't get the sense that it is the most likely possibility.
The new Vet is having us stop the Enacard and Calcitniol. Lola is getting Cerenia and Mirtazapine to get her to eat. She is also getting SQ fluids at home daily. I'm also continuing the pepcid ac.
We had a small victory in that she will eat some dry food, including a Renal variety. We really don't want to give her dry food, but needed her to eat something. We are trying to get her to eat wet food or homemade food. She only wants to eat dry food which is so weird for her. She'll sometimes eat chicken and white bread, but won't eat rice, pasta, veggies, etc or ANY canned food including non-renal food varieties. I think she has a negative association with it now, like you talk about in your article.
I found a place that deliveries frozen Green Tripe to our area once a month and am picking some up tomorrow. I'm excited to try it, though I haven't figured out if I should feed it to her raw, or cook it. I read in your article that you cook it in the microwave. I'm also trying to find out how much I should give her. She's around 41 lbs.
Thank you for your support.
Hi. Sorry to say this, but I don't think much to your vet. They should have helped you undertake IV fluids yourself at home - this would save cost and help Lola much more as it would be consistent. You should be doing this now, so if your vet isn't willing to teach you how to do it, get another vet today. Also, the fact they have said Heatguard and Frontline is okay for a dog in critical kidney failure is a downright lie ... they KNOW (or should know) that is completely untrue. These medications WILL further deteriorate the kidneys and cause further problems. They may be okay for most healthy dogs with healthy kidneys, but not for a dog with compromised kidneys.
I am very sorry you are going through this. We need our vets to be competent, supportive and professional. Sadly, I don't believe your vet is acting appropriately or competently, if what you have described is accurate.
Nothing is ever certain with kidney failure ... but appropriate, fast and consistent treatment is essential to give any dog the best chance at surviving. Right now, Lola needs regular daily fluids, adequate nutrition and an appropriate anti-nausea medication. Without these, Lola is unlikely to survive the next few days - with them, she has a chance. Of course, surviving this period does not mean the kidney failure is cured, it simply delays the inevitable by some weeks, months and possibly a year or more.
I am sorry for being blunt, but I think your first priority is to get a 2nd opinion from another vet ... and quickly.
Kindest regards
Tony
I am very sorry you are going through this. We need our vets to be competent, supportive and professional. Sadly, I don't believe your vet is acting appropriately or competently, if what you have described is accurate.
Nothing is ever certain with kidney failure ... but appropriate, fast and consistent treatment is essential to give any dog the best chance at surviving. Right now, Lola needs regular daily fluids, adequate nutrition and an appropriate anti-nausea medication. Without these, Lola is unlikely to survive the next few days - with them, she has a chance. Of course, surviving this period does not mean the kidney failure is cured, it simply delays the inevitable by some weeks, months and possibly a year or more.
I am sorry for being blunt, but I think your first priority is to get a 2nd opinion from another vet ... and quickly.
Kindest regards
Tony
A lot has happened since my post on Wednesday. Friday morning, Lola refused to eat anything, even white bread which she usually gets excited about. We took her to the vet and her levels were up:
BUN: 59mg/dL (normal range: 9-31)
CREATININE: 5.1mg/dL (normal range 0.5-1.5)
They put her on IV fluids for 4 hours, gave her an antibiotic shot, and gave me amoxicillin to give at home. They also told us to start giving 10mg of Pepcid ac 30 minutes before meals. We took her home and she seemed to be doing much better.
The next day, she was lethargic again but not totally refusing to eat. We just didn't feel right and called the emergency vet and explained the situation. They thought that only 4 hours of fluid wasn't enough with a Creatinine of 5.1. We decided to take her to the emergency vet and gave them all of her blood work results.
They suggested starting fluids and doing an ultrasound. We also found out she had a heart murmur.
Results of the ultrasound revealed that her left kidney is full of water and basically useless. They said there was no way to know how long it had been like that and her right kidney has been most likely been picking up the slack but couldn't do it anymore. The right kidney did not look good and had a lot of damage. The prognosis wasn't good. The vet said they could try to give her a few good days and most likely would be humane to euthanize once she wasn't feeling good anymore.
They suggested continuing the fluids overnight. They also gave her a pain patch because the left kidney had water around it and appeared to cause her pain when they did the ultrasound.
The next morning, her blood work looked better.
BUN: 38mg/dL
CREATININE: 3.4mg/dL
They said this was good and we began to think we might be able to have her for weeks or months, rather than days. They suggested continuing the fluids to see if we could get the levels any lower. We visited her and she was acting like her old self.
The next day (today), her levels were actually worse:
BUN: 39mg/dL
CREATININE: 3.5mg/dL
This made them less hopeful and thought the best thing to do is to take her home and spend quality time with her. They also said she wasn't acting as cheerful as yesterday and they were giving her an appetite stimulate to encourage her to eat.
I asked if there was anything we can do and they basically said all we can do is try to keep her comfortable.
I asked about Heartguard and Frontline, and the vet suggested continuing them and didn't think they would be bad for her kidneys.
I'm heartbroken right now and praying for a miracle.
BUN: 59mg/dL (normal range: 9-31)
CREATININE: 5.1mg/dL (normal range 0.5-1.5)
They put her on IV fluids for 4 hours, gave her an antibiotic shot, and gave me amoxicillin to give at home. They also told us to start giving 10mg of Pepcid ac 30 minutes before meals. We took her home and she seemed to be doing much better.
The next day, she was lethargic again but not totally refusing to eat. We just didn't feel right and called the emergency vet and explained the situation. They thought that only 4 hours of fluid wasn't enough with a Creatinine of 5.1. We decided to take her to the emergency vet and gave them all of her blood work results.
They suggested starting fluids and doing an ultrasound. We also found out she had a heart murmur.
Results of the ultrasound revealed that her left kidney is full of water and basically useless. They said there was no way to know how long it had been like that and her right kidney has been most likely been picking up the slack but couldn't do it anymore. The right kidney did not look good and had a lot of damage. The prognosis wasn't good. The vet said they could try to give her a few good days and most likely would be humane to euthanize once she wasn't feeling good anymore.
They suggested continuing the fluids overnight. They also gave her a pain patch because the left kidney had water around it and appeared to cause her pain when they did the ultrasound.
The next morning, her blood work looked better.
BUN: 38mg/dL
CREATININE: 3.4mg/dL
They said this was good and we began to think we might be able to have her for weeks or months, rather than days. They suggested continuing the fluids to see if we could get the levels any lower. We visited her and she was acting like her old self.
The next day (today), her levels were actually worse:
BUN: 39mg/dL
CREATININE: 3.5mg/dL
This made them less hopeful and thought the best thing to do is to take her home and spend quality time with her. They also said she wasn't acting as cheerful as yesterday and they were giving her an appetite stimulate to encourage her to eat.
I asked if there was anything we can do and they basically said all we can do is try to keep her comfortable.
I asked about Heartguard and Frontline, and the vet suggested continuing them and didn't think they would be bad for her kidneys.
I'm heartbroken right now and praying for a miracle.
Take a look at this link to a previous discussion here about anti-nausea medications ...
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Chronic-Kidney-Failure-in-Dogs/Anti-Nausea-Medication/show/2202286
Tony
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Chronic-Kidney-Failure-in-Dogs/Anti-Nausea-Medication/show/2202286
Tony
Hi. Sorry for taking a while ton get back to you. I've been doing a whole load of DIY work at home and it has distracted me somewhat. The Salmon Oil question ... is this PURE salmon oil? If not, switch to pure, because some oils do contain some unhelpful ingredients. Once you do get a pure salmon oil, that's great, because a small amount has hugely beneficial elements to a dog with CKF. But be sparing with it - maybe a desertspoon a day - otherwise it can cause loose stools and gastric upset. You could start off with a teaspoon a day and see how Lola handles it.
The Heartworm question is a good one, because (to be honest) ANY kind of medication will add stress to the kidneys, because it's the kidneys that have to work to rid any toxins produced by the medication as a by-product. Heartworm tablets, flea medications and annual vaccinations are all best avoided as much as possible. There are alternatives to all these medications and some have mentioned things here on this forum. However, as with all things, there is just as big a risk involved in not giving some medications as there are in giving them. The problem is ... is the medication absolutely necessary and does it take precedent over dealing with the kidney disease? As every dog is different and every stage of kidney disease raises different concerns, it is best to talk to your trusted vet about this and see what they suggest.
A quick word about vitamins. Yes, it's appropriate to make sure Lola is getting the right amount of and type of vitamins, but it's also important to be aware that she can overdose with some vitamins and even an excessive amount of certain vitamins can further adversely affect the kidney disease. So, be cautious. The place to start is with the last lot of blood results (ask your vet for a copy of them if you haven't got them to hand). This should show whether (currently) Lola is lacking certain vitamins or minerals or actually has too much of a particular vitamin or mineral in her blood.
Green Tripe is hard to come by, I know. It can take a great deal of searching for, but once you find it, it can be very beneficial. The best type to find are the all-natural frozen blocks sometimes sold in really good pet stores. You might have a fair bit of telephoning to do to find one that does or can stock it for you. The problem with tinned varieties are they often contain too much phosphorus or too much protein (fine if it's good quality protein, but more often than not its poor quality dog food protein, so not so good). The frozen blocks need cutting to appropriate portions and then cooking in a microwave, and it stinks to high heaven, but dogs usually love it.
As to your question about Hills ... yes, I agree, it's hard to avoid by-products in many manufactured dog foods. However, Royal Canin and Hills k/d tinned varieties are slightly different. They may still have a certain amount of by-product in them, but they are designed with CKF dogs in mind, so the problem ingredients are far less than many other types of dog food. And to be honest, it's needs must at this stage, so even if you start Lola on one of them while you are looking into other alternatives, it is worth doing.
Getting the nausea under control is an urgent one - because without the right ant-acid/anti-nausea medication, Lola will probably refuse almost everything. And that will be fatal. It is crucial to get her to eat a reasonable amount of food, otherwise she will suffer weight loss and fatigue and the lack of nutrients will start to affect her major organs. So, make that one your top priority. If the current anti-nausea medication you are using isn't working, tell your vet to prescribe another alternative and try that for a few days - if that doesn't work ... well, you get the idea.
Hopefully, that will give you enough to work on for now.
Tony
The Heartworm question is a good one, because (to be honest) ANY kind of medication will add stress to the kidneys, because it's the kidneys that have to work to rid any toxins produced by the medication as a by-product. Heartworm tablets, flea medications and annual vaccinations are all best avoided as much as possible. There are alternatives to all these medications and some have mentioned things here on this forum. However, as with all things, there is just as big a risk involved in not giving some medications as there are in giving them. The problem is ... is the medication absolutely necessary and does it take precedent over dealing with the kidney disease? As every dog is different and every stage of kidney disease raises different concerns, it is best to talk to your trusted vet about this and see what they suggest.
A quick word about vitamins. Yes, it's appropriate to make sure Lola is getting the right amount of and type of vitamins, but it's also important to be aware that she can overdose with some vitamins and even an excessive amount of certain vitamins can further adversely affect the kidney disease. So, be cautious. The place to start is with the last lot of blood results (ask your vet for a copy of them if you haven't got them to hand). This should show whether (currently) Lola is lacking certain vitamins or minerals or actually has too much of a particular vitamin or mineral in her blood.
Green Tripe is hard to come by, I know. It can take a great deal of searching for, but once you find it, it can be very beneficial. The best type to find are the all-natural frozen blocks sometimes sold in really good pet stores. You might have a fair bit of telephoning to do to find one that does or can stock it for you. The problem with tinned varieties are they often contain too much phosphorus or too much protein (fine if it's good quality protein, but more often than not its poor quality dog food protein, so not so good). The frozen blocks need cutting to appropriate portions and then cooking in a microwave, and it stinks to high heaven, but dogs usually love it.
As to your question about Hills ... yes, I agree, it's hard to avoid by-products in many manufactured dog foods. However, Royal Canin and Hills k/d tinned varieties are slightly different. They may still have a certain amount of by-product in them, but they are designed with CKF dogs in mind, so the problem ingredients are far less than many other types of dog food. And to be honest, it's needs must at this stage, so even if you start Lola on one of them while you are looking into other alternatives, it is worth doing.
Getting the nausea under control is an urgent one - because without the right ant-acid/anti-nausea medication, Lola will probably refuse almost everything. And that will be fatal. It is crucial to get her to eat a reasonable amount of food, otherwise she will suffer weight loss and fatigue and the lack of nutrients will start to affect her major organs. So, make that one your top priority. If the current anti-nausea medication you are using isn't working, tell your vet to prescribe another alternative and try that for a few days - if that doesn't work ... well, you get the idea.
Hopefully, that will give you enough to work on for now.
Tony
Hi Tony,
Thank you for the response. I have read and re-read your article several times trying to take it all in.
I am no longer considering a dry food for Lola. She didn't like the Hill's k/d dry food anyway, but I agree that canned is better.
I have tried every variety of the Hill's canned k/d food (plain, lamb, beef, and chicken) but Lola won't eat any of them. I think part of the problem could be the nausea factor that you talk about in the article. My vet recommended trying other brands of renal health dog food, but I don't like the other choices. Royal Canin's canned dog food, for example, uses by-products and I refuse to feed her that.
I'm trying to come up with a solution and possibly make my own food for her. It's just really overwhelming to know the right balance of ingredients and ensure she gets the additional vitamins (B, C, E) and Omega 3 that she needs. I may just try to add to her Hill's canned food, like you suggest in the article, to make it more palatable.
A few months before finding out about her CKD, I started adding Grizzly's Salmon Oil to her food. Part of me is afraid it could have caused her kidney problems, but I don't see how it could be to blame.
I want to try the Green Tripe in tins that you suggest. Can you tell me some brands to look for? Is it pure green tripe, or dog food that contains green tripe as an ingredient? My initial search has only found the latter.
I read a suggestion on another forum by someone to not use Heartworm or flea preventative because they stress the kidneys. Is this your advice also?
Thank you for your help.
Thank you for the response. I have read and re-read your article several times trying to take it all in.
I am no longer considering a dry food for Lola. She didn't like the Hill's k/d dry food anyway, but I agree that canned is better.
I have tried every variety of the Hill's canned k/d food (plain, lamb, beef, and chicken) but Lola won't eat any of them. I think part of the problem could be the nausea factor that you talk about in the article. My vet recommended trying other brands of renal health dog food, but I don't like the other choices. Royal Canin's canned dog food, for example, uses by-products and I refuse to feed her that.
I'm trying to come up with a solution and possibly make my own food for her. It's just really overwhelming to know the right balance of ingredients and ensure she gets the additional vitamins (B, C, E) and Omega 3 that she needs. I may just try to add to her Hill's canned food, like you suggest in the article, to make it more palatable.
A few months before finding out about her CKD, I started adding Grizzly's Salmon Oil to her food. Part of me is afraid it could have caused her kidney problems, but I don't see how it could be to blame.
I want to try the Green Tripe in tins that you suggest. Can you tell me some brands to look for? Is it pure green tripe, or dog food that contains green tripe as an ingredient? My initial search has only found the latter.
I read a suggestion on another forum by someone to not use Heartworm or flea preventative because they stress the kidneys. Is this your advice also?
Thank you for your help.
Hi. Welcome to our User Group. I administrate this forum. I hope you find it useful and valuable in helping support both you and your best friend. We are a bunch of people that have all come together, because our dogs have currently got or have had chronic kidney failure (CKF). We are not vets. But we do have some knowledge and a whole lot of experience with this disease.
I am going to ask you to do some reading, just so you have some background information about the disease. This is an article I wrote myself - and many people have found it beneficial to them in understanding the disease a little more, and why we need to be so very careful about what we are feeding our CKF dogs.
I have several comments to make about your first post above, but can I ask you to confirm you have read the following piece first. The link is outside of MedHelp, so you may need to copy and paste it into your browser, or highlight and click. Either way, once you have read it (I suggest printing it out for reference too), please let me know:
http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease
Tony
I am going to ask you to do some reading, just so you have some background information about the disease. This is an article I wrote myself - and many people have found it beneficial to them in understanding the disease a little more, and why we need to be so very careful about what we are feeding our CKF dogs.
I have several comments to make about your first post above, but can I ask you to confirm you have read the following piece first. The link is outside of MedHelp, so you may need to copy and paste it into your browser, or highlight and click. Either way, once you have read it (I suggest printing it out for reference too), please let me know:
http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease
Tony
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