Aa
New Fibroscan
I just got back from LA where I had my second fibroscan. Both were done by HR. The first scan, done six months ago, showed an average of 11.5 kpascal for a high F3 fibrosis staging. A week later I started doing HepTech products. Six months later, today's fibroscan showed an average of 8.7 kpascal for a F2-F3 staging. Pretty decent drop in six months.
I am geno 1a, infected 35 years ago. Six years ago a biopsy also showed high F3, followed by a failed course of SOC. After failed tx I had a VL of 7 million, high enzymes, chronic fatigue and a destroyed immune system. Now I have great energy, low VL and normal enzymes and decreasing fibrosis. I am very happy that my way is clear: keep doing the same things and look for more reduction of fibrosis.
My protocol is 4.5 mg low dose naltrexone, Zhang herbs and HepTech products. Based on my readings, I will not change my protocol and will re-scan in another six months. At that time I hope to see another drop in fibrosis
Next week I will also do labs to check enzymes and viral load. My last labs showed a VL of 58 thousand and normal enzymes. I am hoping for close to the same results this time. I will post the lab results when I get them.
Not a cure, but I believe I am turning back the clock on my liver's lifeline. Severe side effects derailed my first tx attempts after 12 weeks. Accordingly I believe that another course of tx would have the same results. So I, like many hep c patients, needed an alternative strategy to forestall what looked like the inevitable. I'm happy to be making progress and, at the same time, to have great quality of life.
I am geno 1a, infected 35 years ago. Six years ago a biopsy also showed high F3, followed by a failed course of SOC. After failed tx I had a VL of 7 million, high enzymes, chronic fatigue and a destroyed immune system. Now I have great energy, low VL and normal enzymes and decreasing fibrosis. I am very happy that my way is clear: keep doing the same things and look for more reduction of fibrosis.
My protocol is 4.5 mg low dose naltrexone, Zhang herbs and HepTech products. Based on my readings, I will not change my protocol and will re-scan in another six months. At that time I hope to see another drop in fibrosis
Next week I will also do labs to check enzymes and viral load. My last labs showed a VL of 58 thousand and normal enzymes. I am hoping for close to the same results this time. I will post the lab results when I get them.
Not a cure, but I believe I am turning back the clock on my liver's lifeline. Severe side effects derailed my first tx attempts after 12 weeks. Accordingly I believe that another course of tx would have the same results. So I, like many hep c patients, needed an alternative strategy to forestall what looked like the inevitable. I'm happy to be making progress and, at the same time, to have great quality of life.
Wow that is wonderfull. I may call upon you if my tx that I plan to start wendsday fails... Thanks
Hey
Where in LA do they have a scan machine? After all this time you would think they would be in every major hospital. I guess there is to much money in normal Biopsys.
Where in LA do they have a scan machine? After all this time you would think they would be in every major hospital. I guess there is to much money in normal Biopsys.
On the hepatitis Technologies web site they claim that their product Heptoshield, contains no ethanol. they also claim that it is the same product as essential forte N which is available in Europe. however the european packaging for essential forte N states that there is ethanol in the product.
I strenuously disagree with your assessment. Perhaps I should complain that the forum is being used to promote products for Roche or Merck. Treating people with HCV is easily a billion dollar per year industry. It was so lucrative that the pharms (Shering-Plough, in the case of the article) used to kick back money to the doctors. This was discontinued when the NT Times ran an article on it back in 2004.
To my way of thinking the MH exists to provide a forum for discussion and exchange of information about (in our case) Hep C, and all the peripheral information about it, yes, even including alternative treatments.
Both Copy and Cando also did experimental treatments; they were cured in trials using a combination of the new trial drug (Telaprevir and Boceprevir, respectively) with SOC.
Unfortunately, many people cannot tolerate treating with SOC. There are some people who have sufficient liver damage that current forms of treatment could force them into liver decompensation and possible death. I can name a few people who cannot tolerate the riba; it causes them to become anemic. I know of other people who it is felt, cannot tolerate the interferon. What are these people to do? Both of you are cured; you can afford to be cavalier about what you think is *proper*.
If one were to take a look at the Community side of MedHelp HCV forum (there are a number of them on the long term effects of interferonw/riba) you'll also find a long thread which details some of the permanent types of damages that some people who have treated have suffered. These are not people who are unknown to us. They are people whom many of us know, or knew who treated and who have since become disabled in various ways almost certainly due to current treatment with interferon and ribaviren. In spite of the fact that a percentage of people are injured by TX, this is the ONLY form of TX that YOU would allow to be discussed at MedHelp.
One could also list the number of people on this forum who cannot treat with SOC, but whom you would deny any sort of information that could help them live while they wait to treat with newer less harsh forms of treatment. These people deserve some help.
Or one could list people whom have been helped by HR in this forum; Gauf might be one, or Cocksparrow. Both were people who had failed TX and through some education and some changes in diet as well as changes in fundamentals in how they approached their treatments (you see, they didn't have access to protease inhibitors like you both did), they were both able to treat and SVR. That is 2 lives saved using treatments that are not available.
I really disagree with your stance. I feel that the forums exist for the exchange of information. In this case you have a well respected guy, HR who has the papers and credentials; not a quack. You also have another fellow Mike H, who is attempting to methodically record his data here. Copy continually harasses this member and attempts to disrupt any thread that is started on the topic. That violates the spirit and rules of the forum which guarantee members the right to enjoy the use of the forum without harassment. Maybe it's well intentioned .....but it harms the forum and it has the potential limit the means of people who cannot treat with current forms of TX to learn about possible methods to limit their damage while they wait and wait for a less toxic treatment to arrive.
I wish that you would chill out and stop hijacking threads, grandstanding, or insisting on how the forum is run and what information can be posted. As mentioned, I know that it is well intentioned but if it hinders useful information from being posted on this forum it could harm people who have no other methods to help stay alive.
Just my 3 cents....
best,
Willy
To my way of thinking the MH exists to provide a forum for discussion and exchange of information about (in our case) Hep C, and all the peripheral information about it, yes, even including alternative treatments.
Both Copy and Cando also did experimental treatments; they were cured in trials using a combination of the new trial drug (Telaprevir and Boceprevir, respectively) with SOC.
Unfortunately, many people cannot tolerate treating with SOC. There are some people who have sufficient liver damage that current forms of treatment could force them into liver decompensation and possible death. I can name a few people who cannot tolerate the riba; it causes them to become anemic. I know of other people who it is felt, cannot tolerate the interferon. What are these people to do? Both of you are cured; you can afford to be cavalier about what you think is *proper*.
If one were to take a look at the Community side of MedHelp HCV forum (there are a number of them on the long term effects of interferonw/riba) you'll also find a long thread which details some of the permanent types of damages that some people who have treated have suffered. These are not people who are unknown to us. They are people whom many of us know, or knew who treated and who have since become disabled in various ways almost certainly due to current treatment with interferon and ribaviren. In spite of the fact that a percentage of people are injured by TX, this is the ONLY form of TX that YOU would allow to be discussed at MedHelp.
One could also list the number of people on this forum who cannot treat with SOC, but whom you would deny any sort of information that could help them live while they wait to treat with newer less harsh forms of treatment. These people deserve some help.
Or one could list people whom have been helped by HR in this forum; Gauf might be one, or Cocksparrow. Both were people who had failed TX and through some education and some changes in diet as well as changes in fundamentals in how they approached their treatments (you see, they didn't have access to protease inhibitors like you both did), they were both able to treat and SVR. That is 2 lives saved using treatments that are not available.
I really disagree with your stance. I feel that the forums exist for the exchange of information. In this case you have a well respected guy, HR who has the papers and credentials; not a quack. You also have another fellow Mike H, who is attempting to methodically record his data here. Copy continually harasses this member and attempts to disrupt any thread that is started on the topic. That violates the spirit and rules of the forum which guarantee members the right to enjoy the use of the forum without harassment. Maybe it's well intentioned .....but it harms the forum and it has the potential limit the means of people who cannot treat with current forms of TX to learn about possible methods to limit their damage while they wait and wait for a less toxic treatment to arrive.
I wish that you would chill out and stop hijacking threads, grandstanding, or insisting on how the forum is run and what information can be posted. As mentioned, I know that it is well intentioned but if it hinders useful information from being posted on this forum it could harm people who have no other methods to help stay alive.
Just my 3 cents....
best,
Willy
if you go to http://www.hepatitistechnologies.com/store/product/69444/HeptoShield and look at the contents you see that it contains phospholipon 90G. they also claim their product contains no ethanol. if you do a search for phospholipon 90G you come to http://www.americanlecithin.com/TDS/TDS_90G.PDF which says that phospholipon 90G contains ethanol. can someone explain the discrepancy? it is not much ethanol but still hepatitis technologies make a point of saying the their product contains no ethanol. maybe i am making a mountain out of a molehill?
Mike I am so happy for you . Just terrific !
Now we both have evidence of Fibrosis regression poven by Fibroscan
Great news
Cheers
b
Now we both have evidence of Fibrosis regression poven by Fibroscan
Great news
Cheers
b
The fibroscan results sound great. I wish they were more available cross country and hopefully they, or another less invasive means of assessing liver damage will be in the near future. Do you plan to have them routinely?
Glad to hear you're feeling better too. Having energy sure ups the quality of life quotient, doesn't it? I'll be interested in watching your progress as you go along. Thanks for posting your results.
Glad to hear you're feeling better too. Having energy sure ups the quality of life quotient, doesn't it? I'll be interested in watching your progress as you go along. Thanks for posting your results.
Essentiale Forte Ingredients
Essentiale forte contains essential phospholipids(EPL substance) 300 mg, Thiamine mono nitrate(Vitamin B1)6 mg, Riboflavine(Vitamiin B2) 6 mg, Pyridoxine chidrochloride 6mg(Vitamin B6), Cyanocobolamine 0.06 mg (Vitamin B12), Nicotinamide 30mg, Tocopherole acetate 6 mg(Vitamin E).
PhospholiponG is an ethanolic extract with the ethanol removed. The master file says that it is: "- Pure phosphatidylcholine stabilized with 0.1% ascorbyl palmitate" The master file also lists residual ethanol at a max level of 0.2%. That means that 0.2% is the maximum allowable as a residue. By label standards, it is correct to claim that it is pure phopholipid.
By contrast, life extensions PPC is 30% ethanol.
Essentiale forte contains essential phospholipids(EPL substance) 300 mg, Thiamine mono nitrate(Vitamin B1)6 mg, Riboflavine(Vitamiin B2) 6 mg, Pyridoxine chidrochloride 6mg(Vitamin B6), Cyanocobolamine 0.06 mg (Vitamin B12), Nicotinamide 30mg, Tocopherole acetate 6 mg(Vitamin E).
PhospholiponG is an ethanolic extract with the ethanol removed. The master file says that it is: "- Pure phosphatidylcholine stabilized with 0.1% ascorbyl palmitate" The master file also lists residual ethanol at a max level of 0.2%. That means that 0.2% is the maximum allowable as a residue. By label standards, it is correct to claim that it is pure phopholipid.
By contrast, life extensions PPC is 30% ethanol.
Agree with Willy. I certainly don't have any financial interest in LabCorp, but I'll continue to 'promote' their IL28B test until people start to snap to what a powerful tool we've been given. Sometimes you can't help mentioning brand name.
I don't agree with mhudnall's approach to tx or many of the conclusions he's drawn in his particular case, but it's his life and his body. Besides, if he's able to reverse fibrosis without killing the virus, he's going to be in all the text books anyway.
I don't agree with mhudnall's approach to tx or many of the conclusions he's drawn in his particular case, but it's his life and his body. Besides, if he's able to reverse fibrosis without killing the virus, he's going to be in all the text books anyway.
"It is evident that you are advertising for HR. It is well known (or soon to be) that HR has interest in Hep Tec products."
I agree with copyman and cando. Interesting fibroscan and Hepatitis Technologies are mentioned in yet another thread by the same person who posts the same information over and over.
I don't know of any doctors on the advisory board for Merck or Roche who have advocates or soldiers they send out to promote their product or post here specifically targeting their product.
Yeah yeah, we all know there are variations with fibroscan especially in the stage that mhudnall is in. So he gets a stage 3 and then a 2/3 and next time he might get a 3 again.
I wish you would quit lecturing us Willy. The only time I ever see you is when you're shaking your finger at us. It gets old.
Trinity
I agree with copyman and cando. Interesting fibroscan and Hepatitis Technologies are mentioned in yet another thread by the same person who posts the same information over and over.
I don't know of any doctors on the advisory board for Merck or Roche who have advocates or soldiers they send out to promote their product or post here specifically targeting their product.
Yeah yeah, we all know there are variations with fibroscan especially in the stage that mhudnall is in. So he gets a stage 3 and then a 2/3 and next time he might get a 3 again.
I wish you would quit lecturing us Willy. The only time I ever see you is when you're shaking your finger at us. It gets old.
Trinity
Fibroscans have been shown to vary in correlation with biopsies, but have not been shown to vary with other fibroscans. If the same machine, with the same operator, tests the same area of the liver at different time intervals, the readings certainly correlate with each other.
In my opinion it is a valid, non-invasive method to measure fibrotic changes through time. If you disagree, then do biopsies, but you must then accept all the variables inherent in that method as well.
I think Willie's post is measured and reasonable, while trin's post is the shrill post with the lecturing and finger-wagging - but that's just my opinion.
In my opinion it is a valid, non-invasive method to measure fibrotic changes through time. If you disagree, then do biopsies, but you must then accept all the variables inherent in that method as well.
I think Willie's post is measured and reasonable, while trin's post is the shrill post with the lecturing and finger-wagging - but that's just my opinion.
I am in total agreement with Willy's post. The value of this forum for me is exchanging information - I don't need other members deciding for me what I should and should not read.
I have said this before: this is the Internet, folks, caveat emptor.
Disagreement makes a healthier discussion, particularly when evidence is supplied and/or holes in logic are pointed out.
But ad hominem replies and disrespect are a waste of other members' reading time, IMHO.
Mike, thanks for sharing information about your case. I am very glad to hear that a fellow hepper is feeling well.
smaug
I have said this before: this is the Internet, folks, caveat emptor.
Disagreement makes a healthier discussion, particularly when evidence is supplied and/or holes in logic are pointed out.
But ad hominem replies and disrespect are a waste of other members' reading time, IMHO.
Mike, thanks for sharing information about your case. I am very glad to hear that a fellow hepper is feeling well.
smaug
I went to Germany and bought Essentiale 300mg from my pharmacist over there.
The product is around since the 70s I believe and is made by a company
called Nattermann which happens to be in my hometown of Cologne.
The company got bought by some bigger pharm co. but PPC is still made
by Nattermann.
The PPC i got is straight PPC from soy bean.
There appear to be 2 different Essentiale products one called Forte N
and the other is just regular Essentiale 300mg. The regular version does not
list vit B , E ect...
The product is around since the 70s I believe and is made by a company
called Nattermann which happens to be in my hometown of Cologne.
The company got bought by some bigger pharm co. but PPC is still made
by Nattermann.
The PPC i got is straight PPC from soy bean.
There appear to be 2 different Essentiale products one called Forte N
and the other is just regular Essentiale 300mg. The regular version does not
list vit B , E ect...
i too am against censorship on this forum and think this should be a place where free exchange can take place. i am interested in everyone's experience including mhudall's.
Nattermann is a subsidiary of Schering-Plough, a large pharmaceutical company. That is the source of both company's pharmaceutical-grade PPC.
This is not an advertisement for Schering-Plough!
This is not an advertisement for Schering-Plough!
Thanks Willy. Agree 100%.
Please MH, do not censor valid information that may help people that are running out of options. Fellow board members, if you don't agree with Mike's posts, please don't read them. You know where they are going.
The drug companies don't need advocates or soldiers posting. They already have an army on this board. They are the only game in town and that is driven home by all of us. We know it is the only cure.
Thank you, thank you for discussing the above, but we know what will probably happen. I guess worst case scenario we keep our PMs as a pipeline to pertinent info and hope.
Please MH, do not censor valid information that may help people that are running out of options. Fellow board members, if you don't agree with Mike's posts, please don't read them. You know where they are going.
The drug companies don't need advocates or soldiers posting. They already have an army on this board. They are the only game in town and that is driven home by all of us. We know it is the only cure.
Thank you, thank you for discussing the above, but we know what will probably happen. I guess worst case scenario we keep our PMs as a pipeline to pertinent info and hope.
The emphysema part of my copd is advancing fast these days, I've had to cut back my hours at work and some days I can't even make it to the mail box. Because of this my hep doc doesn't want me to do soc and probubly not even when the new meds come out. I f I get anemic and get sick I can pretty much kiss my life goodbye. I almost died last year from a lung infection and don't want to ever repeat that. I know esld is awful also but if I can get tips on alternative ways to keep me healthy,not curedI I know, it's a good thing.
mhudall, thanks for the info
mhudall, thanks for the info
Hepatitis Technologies is NOT the only game in town when it comes to supplements. I do believe that was the point.
No one is trying to censor anyone. if you believe in what he is saying then by all means give it a try. Mhudall is clearly advertising. He is not trying to help anyone. I can't recall him ever helping anyone by answering a question directly. His posts are always about "HIS" treatments and the many different things he has tried. promoting and swearing by them until they don't work then he moves on to the next one coming here to say how great it is. I see right through him and know exactly what he is doing! Apparently MH also knows what he is doing and is why they have taken down many of his nonsense threads. Hopefully the same will happen to this one.
Trinity: Hepatitis Technologies is NOT the only game in town when it comes to supplements. I do believe that was the point.
If that was the point, it was totally obscured in the call for the thread to be pulled and accusing it of being spam and shilling for the company. And nowhere did I see that claim being made, that it IS the only game in town. It's simply someone stating what their own protocol is - no different than what is done by many, many people on this forum so that we can all learn from each other - whether that protocol is interferon and ribavirin with Alinia or SOC drugs administered with a ribavirin lead-in ... or whatever it is. For those folks who are not able to do treatment or having to wait for treatment, these kinds of discussions are useful - whether it's Ev posting what Joe is taking, etc. while trying their darndest to manage their Hep C without being able to do treatment.
I don't see anything at all unusual about yet another post sharing what protocol they're following. There was another thread by someone started recently by someone who's doctor wants to move her to interferon shots daily at 1/7th the dosage a day. Very interesting discussion. All useful.
If that was the point, it was totally obscured in the call for the thread to be pulled and accusing it of being spam and shilling for the company. And nowhere did I see that claim being made, that it IS the only game in town. It's simply someone stating what their own protocol is - no different than what is done by many, many people on this forum so that we can all learn from each other - whether that protocol is interferon and ribavirin with Alinia or SOC drugs administered with a ribavirin lead-in ... or whatever it is. For those folks who are not able to do treatment or having to wait for treatment, these kinds of discussions are useful - whether it's Ev posting what Joe is taking, etc. while trying their darndest to manage their Hep C without being able to do treatment.
I don't see anything at all unusual about yet another post sharing what protocol they're following. There was another thread by someone started recently by someone who's doctor wants to move her to interferon shots daily at 1/7th the dosage a day. Very interesting discussion. All useful.
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