D.U.M.B. - Disorders in Doctors

Our dear friend Wonko found this on a  lyme disease forum and kindly sent it to me.  There was no attribution as to who wrote it ...

I'm sure you can appreciate this new problem with doctors.

*******************

Epidemic of Disorders in Doctors
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The emergence of Medically Unexplained Illnesses has revealed an epidemic of behavioral problems and personality disorders in doctors.

Patients expressing unfamiliar complaints to their physicians often induce the "It's All In Your Head" (AIYH) or the "That's Impossible" response in doctors suffering from these behavioral problems and personality disorders.

Physicians who manifest the metaphysical belief system of "If we don't know about it, then it doesn't exist" are suffering from a psychological condition known as "Doctors with Unexplained Medical Beliefs" or D.U.M.B.

DUMB doctors are comprised of two categories that are characterized by a) those who are feigning to be DUMB for monetary gain: "Medicalingering", and b) those who are not in possession of sufficient information to render intelligent diagnoses: "Factlessitious Disorder".

Physicians who are predisposed to this condition place an inordinate emphasis on theories of psychological causality for virtually any unfamiliar complaints that are presented to them.

This somatiform obsession with psychological etiology, "Psychosomatization Disorder" or "Psychologizing" is a distinctive characteristic of the illness and should be considered a warning sign that the individual is not rational and may in fact be DUMB.

DUMB disorder may be concomitant but should not be confused with Signs of Thoroughly Umistakable Physician Intelligence Deficiency or "S.T.U.P.I.D." since a STUPID physician is uniformly incompetent while a DUMB doctor is only mentally paralyzed into "psychologizing" by unfamiliar symptoms and complaints.

An immediate investigation is warranted to assess the prevalence of DUMB and STUPID doctors and to determine the impact that physicians suffering from these conditions have on the health care system and their patients.

[Fluffysmom]

Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed this!  Thank you, Wonko, and thank you, Lulu, for sharing this with us.

Marvelous!

[Wobbly]

ha... Hi Wonko...thanks for thinking of us... miss you
wobbly
dx

[Karen99]

That is brilliant.  Whoever wrote this hit the nail on the head.

I have noticed that the D.U.M.B and S.T.U.P.I.D doctors roll their eyes around in their sockets while having an episode. An obvious sign their brains are malfunctioning in a manner that becomes evident their logical thinking abilities have abruptly stopped.  

On a more serious note, the reaction of doctors trickle down to their patients.  Their patients are left to feel dumb and stupid themselves and even apologetic for seeking medical services.  Worse yet, are left with being labeled as crazy, somatic, neurotic, or hysterical.   Their unfortunate patients are left without guidance or referral. This can be a very traumatic and humiliating experience for the patient and often does great harm.  These physicians have forgotten their oath "to do no harm."

Most often these opinions are given prematurely by a physician that does know their patient, and does not have the education to render such an opinion in the first place.

If we find ourselves in such a situation, pull out your S.I.U.Y.A. card.  (an up-yours card).  Otherwise you will be left with Z.I.L.C.H.  a physician who is Zany, Incompetent, Cynical, and Haughty.  Or a L.A.C.K.S.  a physician one who Lacks Any Concrete Knowledge or Skills.  (that was fun!)  

[Heather3418]

I absolutely love this.  Thanks to Lulu and Wonko for getting it posted here.  Boy, I have never been so tempted to print this out, go to my old "BAD" Neuro and accidentally tape it to the wall in his waiting room and run for the hills....well in my case, wobble.

Thanks again to both of you.  I miss you Wonko,  How are things going for you?

Heather

[supermum_ms]

This is a brilliant piece of work!!!!

I enjoyed it so much and i so like to laugh, this was a great way to start the day.

Thanks for sharing :-)

Cheers.....JJ

[rendean]

Excellent piece, thanks to Wonko and Lulu.  And to Karen: applause, applause to your addendum...very well done!

Ren

[Quixotic1]

ROFLMBO!!!!!

I have felt crummy all day and you just made me cackle and giggle!!  What a treat!  You would think with our analysis of bad doctoring, we would have come up on these theories earlier, but today was as good a day as any.

Thank you, Thank you.

I'm sure there will be a great medical and sociological exploration of these two syndromes in the days to come!

Quizzle Stix

[Quixotic1]

I had to do some research on this.  Can't believe I missed this info!

An article from The Journal of Irreproducible Results from January, 2009 had this letter to the editor:

<<>

*********************************************************
And this from an archived issue of the Journal of Irrelevant Infectious Diseases: Vol XXIV, 34:1098-2012.

"But, new information has come to light supporting an infectious etiology for DUMB doctors, specifically Type B - the Factlessness or Factlessitious Subtype - that is not seen in Medicalingerers nor in STUPID doctors.  At a point early in their careers, this subset DUMB doctors can be shown to have been normal, abruptly showing a change in behavior that is characterized by the DUMB syndrome.  This almost always occurs in the setting of a high incidence of DUMB.  This suggests that the DUMB practitioner was suddenly infected by an as yet unknown infectious organism.

The DUMB practitioner is far more likely to refer the unsatisfied patient to another practitioner who suffers from similar "psychologistic" practices.  These infected doctors may run in herds, infecting and reinfecting each other.  They have a herd mentality and are likely to infect whole departments in well-known hospitals.  This may account for the not-infrequent assessments that psychological "stress" is the cause of all problems - all pointing back to excessive preocupation with the idea that symptoms are caused by the act of merely existing.

The acute infection is often hard to recognize, but the astute observer will notice the tendency to stand near the door of the exam room, the revulsion at touching the patient and the discarding of any data that might seem relevant to an otherwise unafflicted doctor, thus resulting in little or no  information being obtained.  The DUMB doctor frequently interrupts the patient.   An early clue is the mounting pile of unread medical journals in the trunk of their cars.  Some have suggested that early intervention might salvage other-wise lost medical brains by merely noting which cars run low in back as they enter the physicians' parking lot.  However, this can lead to false postive results from excessive editions of National Geographic headed for the library for recycling.  

Other tipoffs to the condition are the frequent "eye-rolling" and the tendency to snort derisively.  Some particularly observant sociologist have noticed other  similarities to the bull in a bull fighting arena include occasional stomping and tossing of the head.  Charging at the Red Flags of depression, female gender, age over 30, "nonspecific" MRI reports, and negative LP results often preceed the psychologizing by mere seconds.  The DUMB doctor seems to be surprising unself-aware.

The Medicalingerers, on the other hand, can be shown to have the basic traits of avariciousness so characteristic of this subtype, apparent from very early on in the medical education.

STUPID doctors, on the other hand, curiously appear to have some self-knowledge of their malady and tend to refrain from referring to other doctors.  This researcher believes this is in fear that their syndrome will be revealed.  The professional isolation sometimes protects them from infection which might otherwise render them also DUMB.  They find little enjoyment in the day to day banter and sharing of opinions known as "Second Opinions."  They seem to have little care that their mental chaos is an obvious embarrasment to their families and colleagues.

Zermanigoogi, Franco, MD.

***********************

Wow!  What will we find next?!

Q

[Ufrustrated2]

got about half way through and started laughing out loud. love it!!!

certainly worth taping to a few doors at a few certain clinics i go to. they should have humor like us, right? LOL

quite enjoyable funny read

[Quixotic1]

This got missed from the above post:

An article from The Journal of Irreproducible Results from January, 2009 had this letter to the editor:

<>

Quix

[momto2grls]

Wow, so this is a REAL disorder amongst the docs - lol, maybe they should be referring each other to psychiatrists instead of their patients. I have come across this D.U.M.B. syndrome at least 4 times in the past year. One doc had a really bad case of it, I bareley got started on my "list" of symptoms when she kept interrupting me and then stopped me from reading. Made some comment about somatization disorder and insisted I see a counselor. All before performing any kind of a physical exam.
In addition to rolling the eyes in the back of the head, I would say other obvious signs of this widespread disorder include difficulty hearing, inability to look at the patient while the patient is speaking, chronic uncontrollable need to speak while the patient is speaking, and impulsively jumping to conclusions about that which they do not know.

[Lulu54]

Q- thanks for the edition.  AS always, your brilliance as a clinician, researcher and composer of brilliant thoughts shine through.   - L

[Lulu54]

that should be ADDITION and not edition.  that's another example of my brain these days :-)

[momto2grls]

Oh, and as mentioned in an above post, this doc also impatiently stood beside the door the entire time even though their was a comfortable looking chair right in front of her. (I think she kept one foot partially in the doorway so she could quickly run from the room at the point at which it was time for me to ask any questions relevant to my symptoms, become frustrated with her lack of ability to give even an educated guess and want to leave.

[Quixotic1]

I have tried to post this twice already and it didn't post.  Here is the third attempt:

One must always wonder at the etiology of such problems.  This researcher, in collaboration with and with funds from the Members of L.I.M.B.O.L.A.N.D. (Living In Madness Because Of Lazy, Arrogant and Narcissistic Doctors) has recently theorized that these are completely distinct and etiologically unrelated problems, though there may be a genetic susceptibility.  One cannot reconcile the frequency with which these are encountered in the same doctor without considering genetics.

A Swedish researcher has possibly found the cause for the otherwise unexplainable association between Continuing Medical Education conventions and TiddleeWinks tournaments.  For decades sociologists have assumed that the TiddleeWinks enthusiasts that have followed medical education meetings was essentially like the followers of The Grateful Dead - a subculture of drugs, arts, heavy rock and tie-dye - which made up an self-sufficient sub-economy which followed the famous band from city to city.

However, an elegant study from Sweden shows that the Tiddly Winks fanatics and a large portion of DUMB and STUPID doctors have the same thing in common.  They share several gene markers on several different chromosomes (2q19, 2p12, 2p23, 21p16)  These genes can be activated by intense mental endeavor - such as may be occur in medical school.  However, it also shows up as an decreased attention span, difficulties with social interaction and a compulsive fascination for brightly-colored objects.  Exposure to brilliant, colored, flying, plastic discs triggers a huge release of endorphins in this subset of the population.  This may well be the basis for the lure of the TiddleeWinks play at the expense of further medical knowledge.  It also expains the difficulty we have found in treating both DUMB and STUPID.  After applying the Freedom of Information Act the Swedish researcher has found a statistically significant relationship between the founders of the Tiddly Winks establishment and medical school dropouts.

Now we can understand the mistaken belief of DUMB doctors that  "There is No Pain in MS".

Q

[Fluffysmom]

I was chuckling quietly, enjoying Quix's new additions, until I got to LIMBOLAND; I laughed so loud I woke Fluffy up, and he's downstairs!

Thank you all so much; this is truly wonderful.  I too will have to fight to keep myself from printing these findings out and leaving them taped to the wall in the offices of my first three neuros!

This is good medicine!

Kathy

[rendean]

Absolutely superb and just what the doc ordered..laughter !!!!

ren

[Guitar_grrrl]

YaaaHaaa!  Lu, I finally got to this post and all the wonderful posts in the thread!  This is so great!  My heart goes to all of you in L.I.M.B.O.L.A.N.D. (thanks to Quix for that! Ha!).  I loose my patience when I hear of all of you being stonewalled.  But a little laughter never hurt!

I used to read the Journal of Irreproducible Results in college.  I was a Biology major, and it was fun to break up all those dry scientific articles with this.  So fun!

Cheers,
Guitar_grrrl

[Deb61]

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.  I'll be chuckling about that all day.  Thanks for the laughs!
Deb

[kmil1999]

Thanks for the post.

I read your post and my first instinct was to find out who wrote it too!  I didn't realize that Quix all ready did.  (I didn't read the complete thread 1st.)  I should have known I wouldn't be the 1st to think to do the research.

I found this posted on Inspire posted September 19, 2007 without an author too.  Doing a little more digging, I found it on  http://www.bathareame.org.uk/news1.htm,
ME IN THE NEWS MEDIA.  It was signed by Erik Johnson, Incline Village CFS survivor.  I also seen it on another site signed by him and it said  something on the line of it is okay to reproduce it.  So, is he the original author?

Thanks for the laughs and the info to use my left brain for a moment!
Karen

[Quixotic1]

I have to be honest here.  None of what I wrote was truly written by anyone else.  I was giving fake citations to make it look better.  'my bad!

Q

[Quixotic1]

A BIG thank you to Erik Johnson!!

[cainer]

  LOL!!!!!   I am  so glad  u  shared that!!   i  needed a  laugh!!!-   but  what can  we  do???
    lol!!  they  r  out there!!   thank  you!!   tick

[Quixotic1]

S.T.U.P.I.D. - A Case Study

WARNING -THE FOLLOWING IS BIZARRE AND TWISTED - READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!!


Patient walks into doctor's  exam room and nurse asks, "Why are you here?"

Patient - "I've been diagnosed with ADS - Appendage Dropoff Syndrome."

Nurse, "Okay, the doctor will be in shortly."

Doctor - "Good Morning, I'm Dr. Pfufinek.  What can I do for you?"

P - "Well, I was diagnosed two months ago with ADS, but now my insurance has changed, and I'm worse, so I'm coming to you for care"

Dr. - "How was the diagnosis made?"

P - "Well, first my pinky and ring finger on the left fell off.  Then, a month later my left nostril fell off.  And shortly after that I lost my right earlobe."

Dr. - "I don't diagnnose ADS until 4 appendages have dropped off."

P - "Well, that is four, a nostril, an earlobe and 2 fingers!"

Dr. - "I would count the two adjacent fingers as one appendage."

P - "Okay, that's why I'm here.  Yesterday my right arm dropped off, and I'm really worried!  That makes 5 appendages, or four by your count.  Shouldn't I be on some Disease Modifying Drugs to slow all this down?"  The Patient lays the arm down on the doctor's desk.

The Doctor puts on gloves and distastfully sets it aside.  "Hmm...Does your urine glow in the dark?"

P -"No, but they said that only about 60% of patients' urine glowed in the dark."

Dr. - "I won't make the diagnosis without glowing urine.  Besides you're too old"

P - "But, there is no upper age limit.  Lots of people older than me have been diagnosed with ADS.  I've already been diagnosed and I'm getting worse.  I'm desperate!  Every morning I count everything to see that it's all still there!"

Dr. - "Ahhhhh, I see....Do you have a history of anxiety?"

P - "Only since things started falling off on me."

Dr. - "I think you should have a psychiatric evaluation. This all is just probably a stress reaction.

P - A STRESS REACTION!!!!  MY ARM JUST FELL OFF!!!

Dr. - "Have you had all of the mimics excluded? "

P - "I think so, I was checked for Farm Equipment Accidents, Gangrene, Motorcycle Crashes, Recurrent Ninja Attacks, Machine Shop Malfunctions, and evidence of Werewolf Infestation.  And of  course, I was checked for Absentmindedness, but there was no evidence that I merely mislaid something and didn't notice."

DR. - "Is that all?"

P - "I think so.  What about a DMD?"

DR. - Well, I don't think you're bad enough off yet to begin treatment. And there is no evidence that your disease is progressing.

P - What!!  MY ARM JUST FELL OFF!!!

Dr. -  "Any number of things could have caused that."

P - I don't understand how you can say that.  Other people with less disease than I have get the DMD's.  That's the current recommendation.  How can you say I'm not "bad enough?"

Dr. - "You can still walk and have full full use of your left arm, except for the two fingers.  They really aren't that much help anyway.  But, you should be evaluated for Leprosy.  Many people don't know that this, too, can mimic ADS.  It's rare, but someday I will find a case.  I have a contact at a leper colony in Brazil."  The doctor walks to the door, "Nurse, Please quarantine our patient here and make preparations to ship him immediatley to Brazil."

The Patient is led away in shock and bewilderment.

Sound familiar to anyone?

The Quizzler

[cassrox]

This is so great!

The idea some of you had of posting these on some of our evil neuros' walls is mighty tempting, or perhaps an anonymous letter to them could work.

[kmil1999]

Way to funny... and so real!

L.I.M.B.O.L.A.N.D. (Living In Madness Because Of Lazy, Arrogant and Narcissistic Doctors) - haven't had such a great laugh in such a long time.

Your mind and humor is greatly appreciated!

-K

[wadeheather]

What a great thread! Thanks for the giggles!!!!!

[Weakandfalling]

L.I.M.B.O.L.A.N.D. (Living In Madness Because Of Lazy, Arrogant and Narcissistic Doctors)   - I love it!!  Quix, you're great medicine for us Limbolanders!!

WAF

[SickMomma_PDX]

Quix,

Pretty please, may I reprint your brilliance on my blog? It just made me laugh SO hard, I'm dying to share it. I will absolutely credit you for it!!

cheers,

SM

(Er, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to my blog here or not, but here's my link in case it works: http://sickmomma.blogspot.com. If it doesn't show up here, I'm pretty sure I have it on my profile here.)

[truelove47]

This is Great, thank you


Linda

[Quixotic1]

To all:  Of course you can reprint anything I write.   But, the first, great part on D.U.M.B. and S.T.U.P.I.D.  was written by a person named Erik Johnson, by what I can tell.

[Quixotic1]

bump

[silkcut]

Superlative. Thank you.

I was just about to count my tabs for an o/d (caused by DUMB and STUPID) but you gave me my first laughs in weeks.

Blessings
SAMMY

[Quixotic1]

Hi, and Welcome to the forum.  I'm glad we were able to intervene in your o/d.  (You were practicing hyperbole, weren't you?)  I hope you stick around.  Besides whining and moaning we practice a lot of lopsided humor and indulge in much information.

Why don't you post and tell us your story?

Quix

[silkcut]

Hello Quix

I posted my newbie piece here http://www.medhelp.org/posts/SURVIVING-NEUROLOGICAL-LIMBO-LAND---NO-DX/WOW-Pleased-to-meet-you-all/show/1124247

I think I was on the poss-MS list for all of 2 months. But that was a year or so after my lovely consultant opthalmologist had ruled it out. The docs wouldn't listen though! If I'd not had the all clear from eyeguy then I'd have been needlessly fraughted by the 'pay-attention-you-there-in-back' docs.

I'm very impressed by the px>px info here. People are more informed than the 'professionals'.

Meanwhile, errmm, I am actually very down. Limboland AND struggling with a difficult illness has been devastating, to be honest.

sammyx

[tyler175]

Hi

I laughed so hard at your post i actually fell of the chair, poor hubby thought came racing into the room thinking oh my god what happened are you ok, and i was still laughing so hard

your post on Doctor and patient, lord that was just like the fist Neurologist I went to,

thanks so much for cheering me up,  I too am so tempted to copy it and stick it on his door in the middle of the night,

Tyler

[Quixotic1]

I am worried that you are so down.  More than half of us here are still in Limboland and many struggle with the difficulty of devastating neuro symptoms and watching their life - as they had come to know it - disappear.  And they remain without the validation of a diagnosis.

We spend a lot of time helping people to focus in on what they need to get a symptomatic treatment or diagnosis, be it MS or not.  I really hope that you stay with us and talk.  We DO know what we are talking about.  We have a lot of scientists here on the forum and many of the members constantly read the scientific literature.

Quix

[NiCeeGlover]

I'm too scared to go back....
I had my 1st appt. with the neurologist my neuro surgeon referred me to on Friday.
I have been through some bad psychological abuse in my life time,
but the abuse I went through on Fri was one of the worst things I've ever experienced!
No one could have prepared me for doc QUACK!! I have heard of bad doctors, but this guy was sick!!!
I think he set out to have me put in a loony ward!!!

I have never been sick in my life, so haven't been to docs very often except for paps etc.
I decided I'd never go to a doc again if he was the only one to go to, sick or not!
I'm not a cry baby, I'm usually a strong positive person. But I have cried for hours until I can't cry anymore from exhaustion, over the cruelty I suffered.

I am so sickened at the mind games he played w me, I can't sleep.
I simply cannot understand why he acted like I was nuts, stupid, a loser,etc wasting his time! What was the purpose of treating me so god awful bad?

First he asked me why I was there, what is my problem?  
I replied, Have You seen my file? MRI S/ CATS?
He said no he didn't receive ANY records for
me, that I would need to go to the hospital and get them for him.

Said that docs say they will send records and then don't.

I said that's funny, My neruo surgeon called me the day they sent them to you and also sent me a copy. I got mine.  He didn't respond just ordered me to get up on the table.


He stood up and walked over to me,  kicked my walker and asked me
"What's that for?"   And who said you could use it?
I thought he was joking! But he wasn't.....
He tried to take it away from me. I hung on to it w my good hand.

I told him Dr West prescribed it for me. He shook his head.

He ordered me to stand up and walk to the exam table. I couldn't get up, I had walked too far just to get from the car to his office.

He kept demanding that I get up. I finally asked if he could help me, he grabbed my bad arm and pulled me up.

As soon as I was up, he tried to take the walker from me again!
                          "I was horrified!"
Once again he ordered me to walk to the exam table, I don't know how I made it there w him trying to take my walker away the whole time. I won't go in to what I went through to get up on the table..

The whole exam was terrible! He kept asking me if I was depressed. I'd say no. He'd nod and bark out another order to me.  

He had me so confused I couldn't even function!

When ordered to do something all I could do was sit there thinking I had to "HURRY" and do it, so he won't get meaner! When  I wasn't able to follow his commands, I'd feel sick w fear!
Sometimes I would just stare at him because he demanded the impossible!

At one point I went from trying not to cry to giggling because there was no way I could do what he demanded!!!

After the 3rd time he asked me if I was depressed, I started crying, I couldn't help it. He wanted to know why I was crying. I didn't even attempt to answer him.
After checking me out, "he pushed my walker across the room" told me to get dressed, get off the table and left the room.

I knew all I had to do was put my socks and shoes on, but I couldn't move to do it. I was afraid if I leaned forward, I'd fall off the table!

I leaned against the wall trying to pull myself together,  he poked his head back in the room and said  why aren't you dressed and off the table?

Are you sure your not depressed? I started sobbing!!! Then he said "Your not going to hurt yourself are you? I said WHAT?

He repeated "You're not going to hurt yourself are you? I asked "What are you saying?  NO!!!!!
He said he was just making sure because I was crying!
Words can't express how I felt.... and still feel.

I sat on that table for 30 min, because I couldn't get my legs up to get my socks /shoes on. I was wondering how in the world I was going to get off that table!

A nurse came in and asked me if I was ok.  She kept going back to the door like she was watching for someone.

She comforted me and told her between sobs what he put me through. She quietly told me not to come back to him, but go to DUKE. She put my socks and shoes on, then went to get help to get me down from the table because it was so high.

Three nurses came back and brought a wheel chair with them. One stood in the door watching the hall, while the other two helped me down in the chair. A 2nd nurse also advised me not to come back to him.

They left, and he came back and asked if I had any questions?

I was calmer by then and I said yes, what happens now? He said he didn't know because he didn't have my reords, so he couldn't advise me until I got them for him!!!

He said do you have anymore questions? I said yes, but I don't believe you want to hear them. He just looked at me and left the room. No expression.

I know he was lying about not having my records, because we never talked about the bleeding in my brain or that 4 other docs said I have MS. But he asked me if  Ms runs in my family(no), was I diabetic(no),(grandmother was) He asked if aneurysms run in my family?(no) Am I laying down on the bed at night? I said no, not since the 4th of October, I get worse if I lay flat.

He asked me enough questions about things that are in my file, I know he has my records!!
he never did explain his findings or what he was planning to do.

The nurses told me. He ordered tests for GAIT and AVM disease.
I said what is that? The nurses explained it to me.

They set appointments for tests and to come back to see doc quack.
I told them there was no need to set an appointment for me to see him, I would never give him the chance to torture me like that again!

They told me I have all the tests set up that I need, to go do that, in the mean time let Dr West find someone else. I agreed to that.  

I will be talking to my doc tomorrow, and see what she says about this quack.

[Quixotic1]

Oh, my.......this is actually almost criminally abusive behavior.....You have written it up so carefully here that I think you can copy what you told us here and send it to the Board of Medical Examiners for South Carolina.  I would have you file a formal complaint of Unprofessional Conduct!  In the right setting a person with his actions and authoritative stature could cause someone to consider suicide.  He has to be stopped.

Here is the info for filing a complaint for outh Carolina:

http://www.llr.state.sc.us/pol/medical/

If you are willing then a complaint should be filed with the medical organization for whom he works (if there is one), a complaint with any hospitals with which he has privileges, and with the Licensing Board.

This goes so far beyond DUMB or STUPID.  What you saw is an egomaniac (and probably mysogynist)  bully out of control and likely a mentally unhinged man without an ounce of professional ethics or compassion.  Quack is far too light a epithet for this guy!  

His attempting to wrest the walker out of your hands might be a form of assault and battery.  You might be able to file a police complaint also.  Any lawyers out there?  Ren?  Kingusc?

One thing you can do is go to the two MD ratings sites that I am familiar with and tell your story.  

msratings.com

ratemds.cm

drscore.com

doctorscorecard.com

This is as vicious as we have ever heard here.  He crossed several professional lines, but he crossed another when he got physical with you via your walker.  Not having proof that you didn't need it, he was endangering you and leaving you open to a fall.

I am beside myself.  I am so sorry this happened to you.  I can only hope that you have firmly in your head that HE is the monster here, and that you did not deserve to be attacked, humiliated, insulted and denigrated and left without help up on a table without your support close by.  I do think his actions were criminal.

Yes, make sure your PCP never recommends this doc to anyone else.  You can demand that nothing he writes becomes a part of your record.  

You have all the strength I can send over the virtual waves.

[[[[HUGS]]]]

Quix

[michelleric]

((((Nicee))),

I am SO sorry the torture you went through with that awful crazy man.  PLEASE report him to the address Quix gave you.

That is so abusive, no one should ever have to go through that from a medical provider. I truly as sorry.

Stay strong,

Michelle

[Quixotic1]

bump for the forum to see

[Lulu54]

Nicee,
There is no reason to ever abuse another person like that , and especially a patient.  I hope you will follow Q's advice and file a complaint. This man should not be seeing patients, and perhaps your experience will be enough to put him out of business.

I hope you follow the advice and find another neuro - I know you won't go near this man again.

feel better,
Lulu

[NiCeeGlover]

Good Evening folks,

I heard from my personal doc today and I will be seeing her tomorrow

afternoon.   She is very upset over this just as we all are.

I'm still weak and weepy  right now, but after my doc and I get my body

calmed back down, I will be doing just as you suggested!

I didn't know if patients had any laws that protected us or not.

You are right, and I have access to good lawyers that

I will utilize to go after the LOONY TOON !

I'm paying dearly for all the shock and stress he caused me.

My MS symps are much worse now, and they were bad before.

I fear the stress may have made me have another bleed on my brain too, I can

feel the fluids swish and shift around like they usually do when I have a

bleed. the bad head aches are back and out of this world! Have to  fight not

to puke.   I am having ms hugs so bad ! All over! Head, mid rif/pelvic/ and all around my body.

They are also huging my left thigh too.. I'm on fire w knives and heat.

I have had to stay out in the unheated rec room where it's not as warm

since my emotions ran away like they did. Seems that helps a little right now.

Seems so crazy to those around me because I have always been so cold

blooded!   I have only been able to sleep a total of 6 hours since Thursday

night. After I see my doc tomorrow, I will leave a post to update you. and let

you know what DR west had to say.

Then hope to get some beauty sleep so I still look 28 again,

instead of 47!!! LOL

I'm looking forward to going to see Doc West tomorrow.  

She is a great Doctor and I admire her. i wish I could just see her for all of

this junk!
                 Thanks again! you are all special to me!   NiCee

[rendean]

Hi,
I am sorry you have had to endure such  terrible treatment from  your "doctor". Quix pointed me towards your post as my job description until last week was nurse paralegal.

I did a cursory  glance at S.C. laws and found the following:

SECTION 16-3-1700. Definitions.

As used in this article:

(A) "Harassment in the first degree" means a pattern of intentional, substantial, and unreasonable intrusion into the private life of a targeted person that serves no legitimate purpose and causes the person and would cause a reasonable person in his position to suffer mental or emotional distress. Harassment in the first degree may include, but is not limited to:

(1) following the targeted person as he moves from location to location;

(2) visual or physical contact that is initiated, maintained, or repeated after a person has been provided oral or written notice that the contact is unwanted or after the victim has filed an incident report with a law enforcement agency;

(3) surveillance of or the maintenance of a presence near the targeted person's:

(a) residence;

(b) place of work;

(c) school; or

(d) another place regularly occupied or visited by the targeted person; and

(4) vandalism and property damage.

(B) "Harassment in the second degree" means a pattern of intentional, substantial, and unreasonable intrusion into the private life of a targeted person that serves no legitimate purpose and causes the person and would cause a reasonable person in his position to suffer mental or emotional distress. Harassment in the second degree may include, but is not limited to, verbal, written, or electronic contact that is initiated, maintained, or repeated.  


Harassment certainly fits the described scenario.

Also, a note regarding battery:

The broad definition of assault is:

"Battery is a form of trespass to the person and as such no actual damage (eg. injury) needs to be proved. Only proof of contact (with the appropriate level of intention or negligence) needs to be made. If there is an attempted battery, but no actual contact, that may constitute a tort of assault.

In the United States, the common law requires the contact for battery be "harmful or offensive". The offensiveness is measured against a reasonable person standard. Looking at a contact objectively, as a reasonable person would see it, would this contact be offensive? Thus, a hypersensitive person would fail on a battery action if jostled by fellow passengers on a subway, as this contact is expected in normal society and a reasonable person would not find it offensive. Harmful is defined by any physical damage to the body.

Battery need not require body-to-body contact. Any volitional movement, such as throwing an object toward another, can constitute battery. Touching an object "intimately connected" to a person (such as an object he or she is holding) can also be battery.[1] Furthermore, a contact may constitute a battery even if there is a delay between the defendant's act and the contact to the plaintiff's injury. For example, where a person who digs a pit with the intent that another will fall into it later, or where a person who mixes something offensive in food that he knows another will eat, has committed a battery against that other when the other does in fact fall into the pit or eats the offensive matter."

In my opinion, both battery and assualt occurred , at least per GA law, because he touched her and her walker without express permission from her. Battery is the unspoken intent to create harm...that is he asked her walk without her walker.  Assault occurred when he physically touched her walker which seems to be an extension of her body..again without her permission.

At the very least , you should report him to the Board of Medical Examiners . Your in depth description of what occurred should instigate and investigation into his practices and would not cost you any money. Filing actual criminal charges, also seems to be an appropriate action. With a complaint to the Board of Medical Examiners , it would start an investigation and hopefully curtail his practice of abusive medicine.

My best advice is document EVERYTHING and all the trauma and stress he caused you , not to mention the abusive mannerisms while you were in his office.

Let me know if I can help. Stay tough, you CAN do this!

Ren

[essdipity]

I am beyond appalled by this. Wordy me cannot come up with a way to express my reaction.

Nicee, I hope you will follow Ren and Quix's advice and take action. This man is a sadist, to say the least.

Please do keep us informed, and if possible in a new thread, just about you and this terrible man.

ess

[Karen99]

I am so sorry that this happened to you.  It makes me mad beyond words, at least beyond words that wouldn't be censored out!  There are some freaking weird a$$ doctors out there.  Neurologists can be at the top of that list because there seems to be a tendency to become egomaniacs.  The good ones are good, the others are bottom feeders.  A long time ago I worked as an assistant for a neurologist for a VERY short time.  He was a flat out weirdo and freak.  He was eventually ran out of our little town.  I am sorry that you came across this bast#@d.

There is an element of abandonment by a doctor here too, is there not?  He left you in a potentially dangerous situation by putting your walker out of your reach.  He inflicted emotional abuse, you were physically exhausted and left you BY YOURSELF in a bad way, both emotionally and physically.  

Strongly consider filing a police report, please.  The district attorney may take exception to the criminal behavior of this doc.  Any other person on the street would not be allowed to wrestle away your walker and humiliate you in such a manner.  Just because he does this behind closed doors and is paid for for it, does not give him license to act in such a manner.

Too bad I live across country.  I'd give this "man" the verbal beat-down of his life.  Let the police and medical board do this for you.

Take really good care of yourself.  Sending support and hugs your way.

[Quixotic1]

I would very much like to see the continuation of this thread in a new post.  NiCee would you mind if I copied and posted your description of your treatment in a new thread where we can talk about what we, as citizens and consumers, can do when we are treated unprofessionally, cruelly, or criminally?

That way this thread can continue to be about DUMB and STUPID.

Quix

[silkcut]

Poor you...That was appalling behaviour. I am so sorry to read about it. I hope you've recovered somewhat. Are you going to make complaint?

Sammyx

[silkcut]

Hi Quix

That's another good idea - to start a thread re physician/practitioner abuse.

You kindly asked ^^^ about how I am feeling. Thank you for caring. 'Down' would sort of describe it - and that's entirely due to the same sort of treatment as Nicee has had.  I'm amazed that so many US people have responded so angrily and so supportively to Nicee. Of course it's infuriating and definitely needs to be stopped, no one should have to go through that.

But it's really rather the norm to be treated at least offhandedly here.

I could write stuff to make hair curl. In fact, I have - I've written it in complaints to the NHS...they ignore everything.

The thing is in the UK you just don;t have a choice. You get the doc the GP sends you to and you just have to put up with whatever they dole out. If you complain it actually makes your subsequent treatment worse. (The UK Patients' Association did a survey and report on this awful state of affairs last year - they found that this experience is the norm).

So I rather think a new thread would be flooded with heinous NHS tales!! But hey! let'd go for it...;-)

Sammy

[NiCeeGlover]

Hello everyone,
Yes I am going to file a report and press charges on this Doc. My Fam. Doc is so angry at him, she's getting things started while new meds get my body under control.
Quix, go ahead and use my story I don't mine. We need to reach out and help others who have been treated bad by stupid,dump,cruel docs.

Those of us who live in the US know our country has laws to protect people. I'm relieved to know there are even laws to protect in my case.

I hope to be feeling stronger and in at least bearable pain soon. At that time I will be filing complaints and making a police report too.
My Fam. Doc wants me to get my symps under control first.

Thanks to all and I will keep you posted.      Sincerly NiCee

[Quixotic1]

Borrowing an idea from one of the actors of a TV show at a fictional Mercy Hospital - I believe that there is a large organization two which many of our neuros belong.  They are quite proud of their membership and feel that it converys upon them great status as physicians and humanitarians.  This organization is often lauded for its incredible bravery and embracing of the ideals of true physician spirit.  The Doc Heroes of this group are volunteers and travel the world to tend to the poor and forgotten, often in the middle of war, strife and danger.

The problem is that our neuros also believe that they participate in this wonderful organization here, at home.  No, they are never in danger and no, they do not volunteer.  Most of them are paid handomely.  But still, they believe that they are truly special - belonging to that world famous group......Doctors Without Knowledge.

Yep, something else they got wrong.

[silkcut]

Doctors Without Knowledge


ROFLMAO !!! Yep, I actually laughed out loud quite riotously. Thanks, Quix.

Today I posted on one of the Limboland threads about how their thinking is sooooo messy. Yet they seem to think they are a cut above. (So that's why my new GP asks me about stuff and sends me reports direct because she doesn't understand them....uh huh...)

tch

[Quixotic1]

Good to hear from you and glad I provided a laugh, even if I did lift it from someone else - another context (actors pertraying doctors).

Quix

[truelove47]

Bump Please

[Quixotic1]

And, bump this

[Lulu54]

We're bumping and grinding all over this place today - lots of good material in these old posts.  I'm sure everyone can use the laugh and the provocative thinking.

[Quixotic1]

Yes, some laughter is what is called for.  Michael Valentine Smith (from Stranger in a Strange Land) noted that humans often laugh when it is too painful to cry.

q

[Quixotic1]

bump

[Bahini]

These are horrible stories. I have one eerily similar to yours. Nearly two years ago, I had all of the symptoms of trigeminal neuritis (not neuralgia), following a bout with viral thyroiditis, which followed several poorly healing tooth extractions, which followed a horrendous respiratory infection that hung on for 8 weeks.

I went to see a neurologist in St.Louis, upon the recommendation of a cardiologist to whom I had been referred. What a nightmare. He was about 80 years old and was just so abusive, yelling at me to do this and do that, and the more he yelled and insulted me, the more anxious and depressed I became. He did an MRI just to cover his medical ***, and it showed that I had bulging discs at 5 points in my cervical spinal cord, significant thickening of the meninges, and a number of small opaque areas in my white matter. But he didn't think that any of these were significant, nor were they sufficient to cause any of my symptoms ot trigeminal neuritis (much less neuralgia), and certainly not sufficient to warrant any further testing or evaluation. Furthermore, his diagnosis was that it was all in my head and that I needed psychiatric care.

I did not follow up on reporting him to the medical board or other agency. In retrospect, I think if he had properly taken a full medical history (instead of interrupting me and dismissing everything I told him), I might have some idea of what is wrong with me now. The problem is, now there is just some mild thickening in the meninges and a bit of scoliosis, and there are no signs now of the numerous white matter opacity (just one small area and that is "nonspecific"). No obvious markers of any plaques, MS lesions, etc. I am not letting my current neurologist know about the MRI I had in St.Louis by the jerk neurologist, because I don't want him to see the notes about how it was all in my head. Because of the DUMB and STUPID doctor phenomenon, I can't trust my neurologist to be an independent thinker.

[twopack]

bump for the member requesting this topic

[jumpinjiminy]

I'm getting copies of my neurology records. Quix's last funny on the appendage drop sounds just like the neuro I've spent months working with. I was told that because of too low of an antibody titer and negative CSF for oligoclonal bands that Hashi's enceph was very unlikely. But all of the literature I've been reading says antibody titers do not correlate with disease severity (they don't believe they're pathogenic, but marker for another autoimmune process not yet identified) and only 15% of patients who met all the diagnostic criteria had oligoclonal bands in their CSF. That's an awfully small number to rule out a serious and sometimes deadly disease.

I have to credit him with looking for the Ab in the first place. I'm not sure anyone else would have thought of it. But it was what followed that convinced me I was going to get absolutely nowhere.

This one also seems to want to write everything off as migraines, quick spins, ocular migraines, anxiety, and the last one I heard and will hear is steroid euphoria.

And they do cause enough stress to set off a flare up!

I can't wait to see what's in my records.

[ShadowsSister]

Boy, OH Boy, This sure caught everyones attention.. My New Neuros have these disorders..
Thank Goodness for Dr.Rocci, He is awsome..He my PCP.. We have to be here for each other and Lulu, Thanks for keeping us so up todate with new info..

Love all of you and thanks for the giggles, I needed them today...
{{{{~!~}}}} DJ

[Lulu54]

this is the other classic that deserves a fresh read...

[cainer]

LOL!!!

[grannyhotwheels]

Hahaha, I sure needed this smile across my face tonight... Thank you for this Lulu...

Carol

[Lulu54]

I'm happy to share the grins and giggles with this one.