MS Hug

[Deb61]

Can the MS hug cause death?  When I saw the Oprah show with Montel Williams, Dr. Oz mentioned that the leading causes of death in MS were suicide (which sounds very likely) and the MS hug were the leading causes of death.  Is this true?  If not can you die from MS?  I will certainly pay more attention to those chest pains if this is the case.  Not worried, just would like to know to make sure I get myself the proper care . . .

Don't throw rotten tomatoes if you all have discussed this topic earlier . . . I've looked around on the forum and didn't find anything.

Deb

[doublevision1]

I wondered the same thing!  I had never heard that before about the MS hug, which I have experienced in full force.  It felt like my oxygen intake was decreased, but I had read that this is just because of the sensation of feeling like you are in a vise grip, that  it is not actually cutting off your air supply.  

???

[Lulu54]

I caught that too .... I have discussed with DJ (Shadowsister) the events surrounding her emergency tracheotomy years ago and wonder if perhaps those spasms weren't part of the MS hug symptom.  She has no doubt that this almost fatal occurence was because of her MS.  

We'll have to ask her next time she is around here....
Lulu

[truelove47]

When I get the hug it is a very tight squezzing sensation from under my breasts to my

waist.  It is very uncomfortable and lasts quite long.  

(I for sure need spelling lessons. LOL)  Please forgive                        Linda

[deborah0904]

I went to the ER about 8 years ago because of the MS Hug.  I didn't even know I had MS at that time.  It was very uncomfortable but nothing like a heart attack.  I just felt like I couldn't really take a deep breath.  The ER Dr. dx'd it as anxiety........Surprise.

[essdipity]

I'm really glad this has come up, since I've been wondering about several things myself.

I did see Montel Williams on Oprah, and found some of what he said quite confusing. The part about the MS hug (I think), was prefaced by a description of the incredible Las Vegas heat. I thought he said that he was having a heat-sensitivity kind of reaction, then he started talking about maybe a heart attack. I listened very hard at that point, and didn't hear him mention the hug by name. Or maybe he did and I just didn't understand him. Maybe the possibility of death had to do with the possible heart issue. If anyone who saw the program could clarify this, it would be helpful.

Now I'm going to say something I've never told a soul about before this. Over the last 2 years or so I've had at least 6 or 8 instances of something-or-other that I did nothing about. The first time, it happened off and on, sometimes for more than an hour, and it was over about a 3-week period. Since then it's been shorter, over a day or two.

What "it" was is the feeling that someone was taking the heal of his hand and pressing very hard at the bottom center of my sternum. I first thought I was having a bad case of indigestion, though the painful pressure seemed outside of my internal organs and more on the bones of the rib cage, and the standard remedies didn't help. Now that I've started having trouble at both the top and the bottom of my esophagus, I'm wondering about that too, yet the pressure/pain has been too far down for that.

Naturally then, I have to wonder about heart issues. All I can say is that I've had at least 2 routine EKGs during this period, and things have been fine. I'm really quite physically active and get my heart rate up for prolonged periods several times a week. No problems at all.

So I have to wonder if this has been the MS hug. The thing is, it doesn't go around me like a hug at all. It's just in that one place. I know the hug can be experienced in a lot of ways, but how can one be sure that's what's going on? Is this, like MS, a process of elimination?

ess

[Lulu54]

Hi all,
Do you know one of the reasons why more women die from heart attacks then men?  We like to blame the doctors, but a lot of it has to do with ourselves .... we ignore the symtoms and brush them off as other things like GERDs or MS hug.  Please everyone, if you have chest pains, you should be seen by a medical person immediately.  

Now that we're discussing this MS  Hug of death - you have even more reason to go to the ER or at least call your doctor the next time you feel chest constriction and/or pain.

Women often times have normal EKG's, normal stress tests, and non-specific symptoms that don't tell the doctors immediately what is wrong.

Heart attacks can be prevented - time is muscle and the more time you spend wondering what is wrong, the more time your heart has to be damaged permanently if it is a heart attack.  

Don't second guess these symtoms - that's the job of the doctors.

Been there, done that!  
Lulu

[Eliza3]

Elizabeth gets this hug. She says it is like a big old bear is hugging her and sucking all the air out also like someone is jabbing her with a poker in her back through her chest. There are times she can't breath real good.

Now Lulu is right about women, we do ignore heart symptoms. Elizabeth's mom did in 2000. She was 80 then. When she finally went to the hospital. She had blown a quarter size hole between the left and right ventricular (she should have died from that), she also lost 40% of her heart and had a 5 way bypass. The day before she went to the hospital she went to the doctor for dizzy spells and heart burn. blood pressure was good EKG was great.  And as we all know test don't tell the whole story. Elizabeth's mom is now 89 and doing good.

Y'all have a great day
Elizabeth and I are going out tonight. Not sure what we are going to do. But it will be fun.
Bob

[doublevision1]

Montel said he wondered at the time if he was having a heart attack but then said he realized it was an MS symptom.  He called it "chest hug."  

Essie, what you describe sounds like it could be a variation of the MS hug, but I echo the others re: when in doubt, esp if it could even remotely be related to your heart, you should tell your doc about this.

For me MS hug is like being squeezed around my rib cage; as I recall, I felt like it wrapped around my whole torso, front and back.  At times it was really hard to get a deep breath, and if I was talking for too long, it seemed like I was losing my breath.  The other thing I remember was how difficult it was to roll over in bed when I had this, I felt seized up and heavy.

[jensequitur]

>  What "it" was is the feeling that someone was taking the heal of his hand and pressing very hard at the bottom center of my sternum. I first thought I was having a bad case of indigestion, though the painful pressure seemed outside of my internal organs and more on the bones of the rib cage, and the standard remedies didn't help. Now that I've started having trouble at both the top and the bottom of my esophagus, I'm wondering about that too, yet the pressure/pain has been too far down for that.

Ess, have you tried taking a drink of water when this is happening?

I've been having this problem for six or seven years now.  One time it was really bad, so I called the doctor's office, and they told me to call 911.  I said "Is there anything I can do in the meantime?"  Take an aspirin, they said.  Well, I got a glass of water and took an aspirin, and I found the pain wasn't in my heart, but in my throat.  As I swallowed the water, my throat began to relax.  So I didn't call 911 - I just drink a glass of water when it happens.  If my heart rate was elevated, I'd be more worried.

Acid reflux makes it worse, but I'm beginning to think that it's a problem with the diaphragm.  The diaphragm wraps around the esophagus at the point you describe, and where my pain comes from.  If it's spastic and cramping, then the throat would hurt.  I also have problems with slight shortness of breath, and frequent hiccups.

[jensequitur]

Oh, btw, I was diagnosed in 07, but the pains were happening way back in 02.  I was having other health problems, like frequent bronchitis and leg pain, so I have to wonder...

[Noelwolf]

A problem that I was having, I had squeezing like sensation between my rib, it was no kind of pain that I experienced before!  it lasted about an hour and then I had another attack a couple days after that.

[Quixotic1]

This is sooo interesting.  As to what would be a "typical Hug" we need to realize that it is a prolonged spasm of the muscles in the chest, mostly between the ribs.  MS can attack any nerves or sets of nerves, so it makes sense that the Hug could be high or low or even down around the abdomen.  It could encircle the chest or affect just a part of it.

The symptoms could certainly mimic those of a heart attack, of esophageal spasm, of reflux, or even appear to be a form of back pain.

I agree that anyone having this for the first time or having a new variation of it should see a doctor (as in GO TO THE ER!!!) immediately.  We can be quite cavelier about our symptoms and our families would not be proud to know that we brushed off a heart attact.

Quix

[Deb61]

I want to bump this topic up because I think this topic and your responses are soooo important.  It's been a while since I've had this pain, but I'm not taking chances.  It's for a doctor, who is much more knowledgeable than I, to figure this out.  I don't want severe heart damage (or, yeah, death) because I don't didn't want to cause a scene or take the time to go to the ER.

Thanks, this is a very helpful discussion.
Deb

[sllowe]

Thanks for the bump Deb.  I did not see this discussion.

I'v had horrifying spasms across my back, and then across my chest.  I couldn't take a breath when they were in the front.  I didn't know what it was, thought my back was in full spasm, until it went across my chest and the Dr. said the MS hug.

Sure doesn't feel like a nice strong hug.  I vote for a word change.  

Hugs are good durrnit!

[doublevision1]

How about the MS death grip?

[Kenny12345]

they way you describe it is identicle to what happened to me only it was very painfull all over and i went into a nonepelptic seizure. this happened march 9th and i just have not been able to breath since. i just cant seem to get air in, but i have no problem swalling. if i talk alot it makes it worse. its not bad all the time it veries in intensity throughout they day and i just feel like im going to stop breathing all together when it gets really bad. im expeiencing alot of new stuff too but i wont go into all of that im just wondering how long this will last because its been almost 2 weeks and i cant work like this

[meg321]

I am still confused, but the only thing I experience, and I have been doing this for a few years..its just worse now, is that i cannot breathe well, i am always taking deep breaths but sometimes it gets so bad I have to lie down and just take deep breaths for awhile...anywhere from an hour to a whole afternoon.  It leaves me worn out too.

Is that just shortness of breath?

meg

[Kenny12345]

do you think smoking would make this worse?

[Kenny12345]

Also I looked this up on the web and it says it is caused by a lesion in the spinal cord. it is also a very interesting article to read

http://ms.about.com/od/signssymptoms/a/ms_hug_pain.htm

hope this helps a little more i know it did for me

[sllowe]

Hi Kenny,

If taking breaths in trigger the spasm, I'd say it could prolong or make it temorarily worse, but smoking is not the cause of the MS hug, for sure..... I blamed my 1st attack on smoking, lol.....just don't want you thinking you've caused this... Oh, and a belated welcome to you from me.

DB - Death Grip, yea - Strangle Hold? Boa Constrictor? Or, some variation of that?

[Erin0313]

This is a very important topic thanks for posting  - Let's keep it going

1st to agree with Lu & Quix don't mess around with the heart - get it checked out.

2nd to deborah0904 I also went to the ER and was told it was a panic attack and anxiety. They were so rude and dismissive that I was angry & embarrassed. I had a few more and didn't tell anyone but hubby because I didn't want to be treated that way again.

3rd to Kenny12345 (cool name&#) I was told that my chest pain can be actually coming from a lesion that I have in the Tspine because the nerves wrap around. That made since but does that mean I should "ignore" future symptoms?

4th to Meg - I am still confused to so maybe if enough of us share I might "get it".

5th to Everyone maybe we should pole for a new name. I agree a hug is such a nice thing and this is NOT!

Erin :)

[Kenny12345]

i say we rename it "MS Torture" , cuase thats waht it feels like. lol

[kricket1214]

I too, like many of you had not heard of this so called "MS Hug." I have been experiencing it for over two weeks. Just last week my dr sent me in for a MRI of brain and spine. Talk about excrutiating!! To lay there in that tube for an hour and a half was pure torture. If i would have known before i would have definately taken something to relax me. I didn't think I was gonna make it, but i dealt with the pain as I do every day. I try so hard not to complain or cry about it everyday. I'm hoping my results come back tomorrow so they can tell me something or give me something for this pain. So many things go through your head....almost hoping that its from the MS and not something more serious.
Is it worth it to go for steroid treatments just for it to come back in a month or so? I'm just so sick and tired of being sick and tired. As I sit here, it is a beautiful day out and just cannot bring myself to want to do anything. Husbands out, kids are out and here I sit. Guess I just have to drag myself out of this chair and self pity and do something....
Sorry for the ranting and venting. But, it's good to know I'm not alone.
Kristina

[Ufrustrated2]

boy can i relate to a lot of stuff on this post.

it doesn't feel nice at all when the sensation is having to take really shallow breaths wondering the heck is going on! i just sit there forcing with a lot of effort to get deep breaths in, telling myself "it won't last forever, you've been here before"...

"I'm just so sick and tired of being sick and tired.", I second this big time.

[sorry6]

yes i also have had the ms hug, know i know what is going on . i have gone thru this so mant times ,i have to hide myself from my family , so they wont see   thankyou montel, and opray  godbless and thankyou again

[babybop]

Hey i don't know if i'm having the "MS Hug" or not, if it is, I REALLY DON'T LIKE IT!!!  It's squeezing around the chest area.  I have been having it for a week off and on.  It goes and comes. I am not experiencing any pain, just like someone is sitting on my chest and not letting me get up.  My hubby asked me for a hug last night and i had to tell him not to hug me too hard because i was having that feeling, I think it is saying to me, I'm still here!!!  You better not think i'm gone to far!!!  I had an MRI done on the 18th I thought i was going to have to push the button but i laid there and i took a couple of deep breathes and went to my happy place..  I will mention this to my Neuro when i see him and see what he has to say.  I haven't went to the ER or Dr. because i mentioned this to my sister who happens to be a nurse and the first thing she said was maybe it's a panic attack!!  I'm not panicing over anything or at least i don't think i am..  :)  Anyways, i don't know if i will be back in today fora quick peek, if not i'll pop by after my vacation!!  Oh by the way, do anyone experience cold shivers starting from the tips of your fingers to the top of your head and it feels like the hair is standing up, i just had that feeling, my right arm hand (babyfinger) is going to sleep while i am writing this.  WOW

[cz1970]

Wow so interesting... I have a variation of this luckily not recently. I get what feels like a "clamping down" of my ribs on the L side. It feels like all the intercostal muscles spasm and pull my ribs in. Its quite uncomfortable but if i relax and concentrate they seem to pass faster. It's only lasted an hour at a time. I sometimes wake up like this but once I get moving and breathing it gets better. Now I'm on Baclofen so it hasn't happened again.... hmmm interresting ha!?

[rubybunce]

I've been sufferring with MS hug since yesterday. I had it two weeks ago and it lasted for 3 days, prior to this last summer before my MS DX i went to my GP with the pain which I described as indegestion without the pain, just permanently uncomfortable. I know what you mean about not being able to breath, I havent found anything yet which helps other than lying in bed propped up and resting. if I do this for half an hour it eases the pain.

Incidently I started it two days ago when one of my ribs on my left side felt bruised, this has  now gone and was replaced with pain under my breasts satrting at my sternum (sorry my spelling is bad too). Now I'd liken it to contractions that occur every few minutes when it is in full flow. it is very painful and at times i could just give in and give up. I thought I had constipation, for me it can be followed by a bowel movement but this increases the pain and it stays with me for a number of hours afterwards. I havent been able to find anything that suggests MS hug has an effect on bowels and maybe I am constipated I dont know, anyone else had any simialr thoughts?

[babybop]

Funny you say that, your rib felt bruised, i have that, i woke up just the other day, my left rib, in one spot sore as anything, i asked my husband if he was hitting me in my sleep, lol, he looked at me like i had 10 heads with why would you even ask that!!!  I thought it was funny..oopps!!  :)  I have mood swings as well, one minute i'm a happy little camper and the next minute i can rip your head off over nothing!!!  sorry!!!  I didn't put MS and mood swings together until i seen someone else say it and then i put 2 and 2 together and said maybe!!  Everyday is different, can't wait until tomorrow to see what i have to deal with then!!!  NOT..  Also want to say thanks to all for this forum, it's a great group of people where you can be yourself and not be judged!!

[Deb61]

Erin- I've had a similar experience at the ER before my MS diagnosis which I think traumatized me!   My guess is that the ER personell get overstretched, overworked, and desensitized.  I went in to the ER because my family doctor told me to--thinking I was having a heart attack and came out with a referral to a psychiatrist.  I don't even think he checked with my family doctor to see what my medical history was, because his assessment was completed in less time than it would take to sneeze.  So, I can relate.  

Kristina--Keep us posted on your test results.  I hope that whatever is causing your symptoms will be found.  In the mean time, start a thread on some of the things that's causing your pain because there's lots of people on this forum that are going through the same thing, sweetie.  Maybe someone knows of something that would be helpful.

Sorry6-  I hide too!  I don't like to cause a commotion, but I'm going to get checked out next time this happens, though.  

cz1970-  That is interesting!  Maybe Baclofen's a good treatment for the MS hug.  My sister takes that drug, too.  I wonder if she's noticed the same thing . . .

Ruby- MS can cause a number on your bowels.  I've gone through periods of time when I was extremely constipated (especially when I had hypothyroidism to go with it).  Then I go through times when I have bowel incontinence (oh the joy of MS).  I don't know if the hug is related.  I think it has a lot to do with MS, though.

Babybop- I love this forum--there are lots of great people!  I get the hair standing up on ends feeling a lot, and the really odd thing is that it is only on one side of my head!  I also have the feeling of bugs crawling through my hair as well--only on close inspection by someone, that there's nothing there.  Have a great vacation!

Kenny- thanks for the web link.  I wondered what causes this!

Meg & others--I'm confused, too.  I think each of us experience this hug thing differently.  I have a lot of pain with mine and shortness of breath.    

Shelly- Hugs are good things and I vote that this term be revamped to DB's suggestion of MS death grip.

Quix, Bob, and Lulu- We can be very cavalier about symptoms like these for lots of reasons.  You're absolutely right--we should get check out!  

Jen- That is very interesting.  If you every find out anything else, let us know.  I do have pain in my throat and it's highly unlikely that I could swallowing anything during this attack.

ess- at the end of the interview with Montel, I heard Dr. Oz mention the two things that were the leading cause of death with people who have MS--suicide as being the number one killer and coming in second--the MS hug.  I am also confused about the chest pain thing.  I don't think it's my heart--I've had two echocardiograms, but what I've experienced feels like a heart attack.  I get esophageal spasms, which is precipated by something cold or spicy (something I've eaten), and this is not the same thing (although it hurts).  This is like a very painful vice grip around my chest that radiates up through my throat.  So, I'm not sure if it's the hug or not.  
    
All- How does the MS hug cause death?  Is this really true?



  

[rubybunce]

How do you know if you hav MS hug, ok the Pain tells you that you've got something, the lack of breath you experience but I thought mine was indegestion and so did my GP. What do you do to releive MS hug and how long does it last?

Is it an indicator of a lesion in the spinal column or did I imagine that?

Ruby

[jensequitur]

I would say that it most likely is a spinal lesion, but can't really be sure.  

>  Jen- That is very interesting.  If you every find out anything else, let us know.  I do have pain in my throat and it's highly unlikely that I could swallowing anything during this attack.

I thought the very same thing!  But I did it anyway, and the pain got worse... then I could feel the knot relaxing, and ahh.... it was gone.  

[Heather8]

I think I have had two types of the MS hug. The first one which took me to the emergency room because I became very concerned ... I was cleaning the bathtub . The last thing I thought was "wow these cleaning products are really strong" I then went numb ...my arm , stomach and back. The emergency room dr told me to go home. A month later I went blind.

Last year I was having some problems with pressure. What some of you have wrote is exactly what happened to me. The final one I had we were driving and the pressure came around my rib cage Pressure inside was almost unbareable  I kept calm and grabbed onto the handle located at the top of the passenger side door . It lasted a couple of minutes. My first thought was heartattack . My second thought was really bad indigestion. Then I figured it had something to do with MS. It was very scary but I remained calm until it was over. I never experienced that bad of pressure before.
Every now and then I will feel small ones.
It was like having a charlie horse around my rib cage and on the inside. My heart and lungs felt pressure and it was difficult to breathe.