Aa
Met yet another widow, should I invite her to lunch?
As I was removing my scooter in my town's smaller supermarket's parking lot,
a woman came over, saying "can I help, I'm an expert on scooters". We started chatting,
talked for 20+ minutes.
We exchanged names, I know where she lives, we are about the same age, she's been a widow
for about two years, her husband died of an unusally aggressive progressive version of MS. She doesn't
work, seems, like me, a bit lonely, with more time on her hands than she'd like.
My marriage has been dying for about two years, long story coming down to very different views of
how we should live our remaining days. Wife and I know we are in the final phase of living together,
I'm moving to the west coast on Nov 12, w is coming along for what will be our swan song - weird, she invited
herself.
If you were the woman in the parking lot would you have enjoyed an invitation to lunch?
a woman came over, saying "can I help, I'm an expert on scooters". We started chatting,
talked for 20+ minutes.
We exchanged names, I know where she lives, we are about the same age, she's been a widow
for about two years, her husband died of an unusally aggressive progressive version of MS. She doesn't
work, seems, like me, a bit lonely, with more time on her hands than she'd like.
My marriage has been dying for about two years, long story coming down to very different views of
how we should live our remaining days. Wife and I know we are in the final phase of living together,
I'm moving to the west coast on Nov 12, w is coming along for what will be our swan song - weird, she invited
herself.
If you were the woman in the parking lot would you have enjoyed an invitation to lunch?
Sumanadevii
You've got it right, thanks for posting.
On one of the MS forums I posted that besides helping me walk better, Ampyra is improving my memory, which has not deteriorated noticeably is still filled with all sorts of information, these days never memorized bits of poems and songs sometimes sift to the surface. BTW, my neuro who is on top of MS research, tells me that I'm not the only one seeing memory improvements, his wonderful PA tells me that I'm not the only one enjoying physical sensations more than I did pre-Ampyra.
While showering this morning I remembered more than a decade ago W was working late on Friday, the Jewish Sabbath begins at sunset, traditionally dinner and family are ready before it starts. W is a social worker at a local nursing home, had been there for over two decades.
A literally little old Jewish lady, 85 or older, a widow, a resident of the nursing home, walked by her office on the way to her dinner and said "Why aren't you home getting the house ready for Shabbos?, isn't your husband and family more important than work?".
The answer then and now is "No, work is more important to me".
A friend emailed me this morning, she's been very helpful and critical in the best sense. She said that W is going to have to fall a long way before she realizes how much she's lost.
I remember this, recall our discussion afterward, asked her W if she really wanted to put her work ahead of marriage, her answer was yes. This was well before I had my first MS symptom, I argued to no avail.
You've got it right, thanks for posting.
On one of the MS forums I posted that besides helping me walk better, Ampyra is improving my memory, which has not deteriorated noticeably is still filled with all sorts of information, these days never memorized bits of poems and songs sometimes sift to the surface. BTW, my neuro who is on top of MS research, tells me that I'm not the only one seeing memory improvements, his wonderful PA tells me that I'm not the only one enjoying physical sensations more than I did pre-Ampyra.
While showering this morning I remembered more than a decade ago W was working late on Friday, the Jewish Sabbath begins at sunset, traditionally dinner and family are ready before it starts. W is a social worker at a local nursing home, had been there for over two decades.
A literally little old Jewish lady, 85 or older, a widow, a resident of the nursing home, walked by her office on the way to her dinner and said "Why aren't you home getting the house ready for Shabbos?, isn't your husband and family more important than work?".
The answer then and now is "No, work is more important to me".
A friend emailed me this morning, she's been very helpful and critical in the best sense. She said that W is going to have to fall a long way before she realizes how much she's lost.
I remember this, recall our discussion afterward, asked her W if she really wanted to put her work ahead of marriage, her answer was yes. This was well before I had my first MS symptom, I argued to no avail.
I believe that there is a huge difference between marriage and an endurance contest. I doubt any god would want his children to live a life because they signed on the dotted line not fully understanding their partner at the time. Mark has said the marriage is dead. There is nothing left. The love they felt at one time is gone. To continue living a lie in this marriage to me would be sinful. JMO
Medhelpers ,
Thanks for your many responses, let me try to add a bit of clarity.
Lunch would have given two people going home to empty houses a chance to talk, I did not see it as a date leading to anything romantic, I do not require a woman to be gorgeous in order to attract me, a very old part of my brain responds to pheromones, I've gone half crazy about one woman who was far from beautiful, but drove every man in the room crazy, this nice woman didn't have the ones I respond to. As fond as I am of women, I'm more than capable of having lunch or dinner without making a pass.
My marriage has been unconsummated for over two years, perhaps longer, I've given up tracking, W has not made any real effort to resolve physical issues, insists she will stay in CT to care for her aging parents. Apparently long distance phone calls, airplanes, premarin cream & dildo's don't exist in her universe. Nor does counselling.
The pleasuring she provides certainly feels good, but is nowhere close to real m/f physical intimacy, and bringing up her job issues and her mother when the lights are turned off does little for emotional intimacy. I'll repeat an old, slightly offensive joke -
"Why do men enjoy B****** s?" Ans: Because she can't talk.
I am just so tired & angry being treated as a pair of ears when not in bed and the TV not yet turned on. Were I to keep track of how few times a week I'm asked a question about me, rather than her or her job, I could track it on the fingers of a single hand.
Before anyone says we need to communicate better, believe me I've tried and tried. I get apologies, I get "I'll change", and a day later we're back to the same behavior. I think I live with a woman who may still be a child at heart, our life seems to be variations of her saying "am I pretty?", "my job used to be done by 2 1/2 people", "do these earrings look good with this scarf", "I want macaroni and cheese", "my boss is a b****", and "do I have to go to bed now?"
I want to live with an adult, a loving, sensual adult who sees me as a loved and loving peer, not a mirror to her psyche.
In any case, in 4 weeks and a day I'm headed west for 5 weeks, the last 2 1/2 living alone, which in some ways may be more enjoyable than living here. This week W was out Monday till 10:30, Wednesday (stayed at work all night), Thursday (scheduled till 10), and Sunday afternoon. These few nights is a compromise from what she wants, she'd happily be at work or at community events every day of the week.
Although I'm not an admirer of Shariah, the islamic divorce is one I could live with.
Sumanadevii - I agree with you. With no kids from this marriage, a house that will need only minor maintenance and a mortgage with 50% equity, I'm thinking my fair contribution to her life is to quit claim the house, and let her take out a reverse mortgage when she soon turns 62. Between pension, Soc Security, 401K and a substantial inheritance likely, her life, her financial issues won't be mine.
Shell and Supermom - Thanks!
ess, PastorDan, and Audrey - even more thanks for your thoughtful comments. I really wish our marriage didn't die a while back, was whole and healthy. I wish W had been honest with me in our early years when I told her I would be moving west when my kids had left home.
Because of my love for her I didn't take the best job in the world I could have ever imagined when it was offered in the early 90s, besides allowing me to write software for one of the world's great telescopes, travel to the Chilean mountains, I would have been in Pasadena, close to my aging parents, far from winter, and a lot closer to my adult children. I've made the big compromises, in '85 or so when we were living together less than a year and I never said "marriage, proposal, engagement, wedding" W said she'd think about it when the possibilities arrived. I know she didn't think about my needs then, still doesn't.
There is a forum called "Talk About Marriage", where more than a few posters tell us time after time that being mr. nice guy makes marriages worse, not better. At first I objected, I'm beginning to think there is truth in what they say.
Thanks for reading this far into my rant, I hope you understand how much sadness fills me heart that I'm going to go through divorce and dating.
Mark
Thanks for your many responses, let me try to add a bit of clarity.
Lunch would have given two people going home to empty houses a chance to talk, I did not see it as a date leading to anything romantic, I do not require a woman to be gorgeous in order to attract me, a very old part of my brain responds to pheromones, I've gone half crazy about one woman who was far from beautiful, but drove every man in the room crazy, this nice woman didn't have the ones I respond to. As fond as I am of women, I'm more than capable of having lunch or dinner without making a pass.
My marriage has been unconsummated for over two years, perhaps longer, I've given up tracking, W has not made any real effort to resolve physical issues, insists she will stay in CT to care for her aging parents. Apparently long distance phone calls, airplanes, premarin cream & dildo's don't exist in her universe. Nor does counselling.
The pleasuring she provides certainly feels good, but is nowhere close to real m/f physical intimacy, and bringing up her job issues and her mother when the lights are turned off does little for emotional intimacy. I'll repeat an old, slightly offensive joke -
"Why do men enjoy B****** s?" Ans: Because she can't talk.
I am just so tired & angry being treated as a pair of ears when not in bed and the TV not yet turned on. Were I to keep track of how few times a week I'm asked a question about me, rather than her or her job, I could track it on the fingers of a single hand.
Before anyone says we need to communicate better, believe me I've tried and tried. I get apologies, I get "I'll change", and a day later we're back to the same behavior. I think I live with a woman who may still be a child at heart, our life seems to be variations of her saying "am I pretty?", "my job used to be done by 2 1/2 people", "do these earrings look good with this scarf", "I want macaroni and cheese", "my boss is a b****", and "do I have to go to bed now?"
I want to live with an adult, a loving, sensual adult who sees me as a loved and loving peer, not a mirror to her psyche.
In any case, in 4 weeks and a day I'm headed west for 5 weeks, the last 2 1/2 living alone, which in some ways may be more enjoyable than living here. This week W was out Monday till 10:30, Wednesday (stayed at work all night), Thursday (scheduled till 10), and Sunday afternoon. These few nights is a compromise from what she wants, she'd happily be at work or at community events every day of the week.
Although I'm not an admirer of Shariah, the islamic divorce is one I could live with.
Sumanadevii - I agree with you. With no kids from this marriage, a house that will need only minor maintenance and a mortgage with 50% equity, I'm thinking my fair contribution to her life is to quit claim the house, and let her take out a reverse mortgage when she soon turns 62. Between pension, Soc Security, 401K and a substantial inheritance likely, her life, her financial issues won't be mine.
Shell and Supermom - Thanks!
ess, PastorDan, and Audrey - even more thanks for your thoughtful comments. I really wish our marriage didn't die a while back, was whole and healthy. I wish W had been honest with me in our early years when I told her I would be moving west when my kids had left home.
Because of my love for her I didn't take the best job in the world I could have ever imagined when it was offered in the early 90s, besides allowing me to write software for one of the world's great telescopes, travel to the Chilean mountains, I would have been in Pasadena, close to my aging parents, far from winter, and a lot closer to my adult children. I've made the big compromises, in '85 or so when we were living together less than a year and I never said "marriage, proposal, engagement, wedding" W said she'd think about it when the possibilities arrived. I know she didn't think about my needs then, still doesn't.
There is a forum called "Talk About Marriage", where more than a few posters tell us time after time that being mr. nice guy makes marriages worse, not better. At first I objected, I'm beginning to think there is truth in what they say.
Thanks for reading this far into my rant, I hope you understand how much sadness fills me heart that I'm going to go through divorce and dating.
Mark
True, most marriages don't last, but why is that? It is because we've come to believe that the status quo is acceptable. It is because we've too easily excused people for failing to hold true to promises they've made. It is because we don't think of marriage as a sacred union, symbolizing the union of Christ with His church, and instead think of it as a convenient living arrangement, based on finances, our own pleasure, and whatever we might think we want at the moment. I speak as one who has been there myself, and as one who has counseled many of the victims of such behavior. There is nothing "progressive" (that word's been misappropriated in recent years) about excusing people for walking away from obligations, and consequently diminishing the meaning and perceived value of an institution that has been civilization's basic building block since the beginning of civilization.
Having said all of that, this is probably not the best forum for the rest of such a discussion, IMHO; its' tie to our subject matter is tenuous.
Having said all of that, this is probably not the best forum for the rest of such a discussion, IMHO; its' tie to our subject matter is tenuous.
I wanted to add (again I wish we had an edit button) that marriage is more than a certificate either civil or religious. It is of the heart. When both parties decide there is no marriage papers can't force it. JMO
Well Mark, I guess I am the lone progressive one here. Go for it! The marriage is over. I think a woman with common sense would get the picture rather quickly over a coffee or lunch. If I were available, I would say YES!
I think rules have changed today. Most marriages don't last and I think few think a thing about it. And this comes from a woman married 40 years that would marry him again tomorrow.
Go with your heart. Let her decide if she can't handle the "moral" issue.
I think rules have changed today. Most marriages don't last and I think few think a thing about it. And this comes from a woman married 40 years that would marry him again tomorrow.
Go with your heart. Let her decide if she can't handle the "moral" issue.
W and I had a quiet moment last night, she tells me that she agrees moving to SF is a wonderful step for me, but she wants to live near her parents and care for them. She said as best I can repeat it, she loves me a lot, but knows how difficult staying in CT is, how much life and enjoyment SF will bring me, the pleasure of milder weather.
She's stuck, still trying to be the favorite daughter, a race I don't think has been held for decades.
It is way too late to make a big difference she's decided that not working lat 4 nights a week is good, and since colbert and stuart took over the kitchen table, it is they, not we who speak.
She has finally started saying yes to a second day a week of pleasuring me, but her rules don't make for passion.
We are a month away from starting the trip west, two weeks later she flies to NY and I get a taste of what living alone is like. I know it is not the happiest time, but I shall succeed.
Mark
She's stuck, still trying to be the favorite daughter, a race I don't think has been held for decades.
It is way too late to make a big difference she's decided that not working lat 4 nights a week is good, and since colbert and stuart took over the kitchen table, it is they, not we who speak.
She has finally started saying yes to a second day a week of pleasuring me, but her rules don't make for passion.
We are a month away from starting the trip west, two weeks later she flies to NY and I get a taste of what living alone is like. I know it is not the happiest time, but I shall succeed.
Mark
p.s. Though what Supermum- JJ says is very true! I think I read too much into it, lol!
-shell
-shell
Hi Mark,
Aren't you glad you asked? Wow, not all men would have seeked the advice of us. I feel honored, haha
I agree with the thoughts that no date or contact until you are single. The exchange of conversation sounded pleasant, and it's quite the coincidence her husband had this progressive MS. You must of really enjoyed the mutual experiences and just the simple joy of pleasant conversation. I'm glad for you both that you had this experience.
If she's a woman of good character an invite to lunch may not have thrilled her. Would speak to your character to refrain. Like you did.
Get back to us w/your thoughts,
-Shell
Aren't you glad you asked? Wow, not all men would have seeked the advice of us. I feel honored, haha
I agree with the thoughts that no date or contact until you are single. The exchange of conversation sounded pleasant, and it's quite the coincidence her husband had this progressive MS. You must of really enjoyed the mutual experiences and just the simple joy of pleasant conversation. I'm glad for you both that you had this experience.
If she's a woman of good character an invite to lunch may not have thrilled her. Would speak to your character to refrain. Like you did.
Get back to us w/your thoughts,
-Shell
COMMUNITY LEADER
There must be something wrong with me (lol dont remind me) i personally would not of thought negatively at getting an invite on the spot for a cup of coffee or lunch. I would not read anything more into the invite, just 2 people who have something in common, a common bond through the MS experience, nothing more to read into.
Though as soon as you include a mindset of availability, then that completely changes everything because you are not available for more than friendships, you are still married, that chapter of your life is still active, even if you do feel the marrage will end.
It could be a mute point anyway, just because she's a widow doesn't mean she's actually looking for a partner, i know a few widows and devorsees (40's plus) and there is absolutely no way they would give up their freedom to become cook and washer-upper again, they are though actively seeking friendships but not partners!
Cheers.......JJ
Though as soon as you include a mindset of availability, then that completely changes everything because you are not available for more than friendships, you are still married, that chapter of your life is still active, even if you do feel the marrage will end.
It could be a mute point anyway, just because she's a widow doesn't mean she's actually looking for a partner, i know a few widows and devorsees (40's plus) and there is absolutely no way they would give up their freedom to become cook and washer-upper again, they are though actively seeking friendships but not partners!
Cheers.......JJ
I am sure it would be a bad idea right now, Mark. You might not want to, but as long as you are married, you need to focus on what it will take to fix the marriage you're in. Trust me, a new relationship is never the answer to a troubled one. I've seen it too many times. PM me if you want my help.
To me honesty/integrity is one of the most important things in any kind of relationship, be it work, friendship or something greater.
That being said, if a married man invited me to lunch, regardless of the state of his marriage, I would want to know that I was being invited to lunch as a friend with marital status disclosed (and no details about the marriage...its not my business).
I would feel very betrayed by being asked to lunch and then finding out later the man was married. It could also put a woman's reputation on the line as well as getting back to the wife.
That's my take on things.
That being said, if a married man invited me to lunch, regardless of the state of his marriage, I would want to know that I was being invited to lunch as a friend with marital status disclosed (and no details about the marriage...its not my business).
I would feel very betrayed by being asked to lunch and then finding out later the man was married. It could also put a woman's reputation on the line as well as getting back to the wife.
That's my take on things.
Not if it constituted a date. If your marriage is over, then let it be completely over before you venture forth to other possibilities.
When you get to your new home and have filed papers to start the divorce or separation process, then you can meet new women and tell them honestly that you are available. Since that will be quite soon, relatively speaking, make a clean start at that point.
Good luck to you!
ess
When you get to your new home and have filed papers to start the divorce or separation process, then you can meet new women and tell them honestly that you are available. Since that will be quite soon, relatively speaking, make a clean start at that point.
Good luck to you!
ess
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