Quix, if you really want to make your hair fall out, go check out what the "MDs" at the Mercola site are spouting. Especially look at their egregious "Fact Sheet" that they're urging people to post in their communities.
And just for the record, regarding GBS, several studies have found NO LINK at all between GBS and flu shots, while two found a 1 in a million chance. That's far less of a risk than having an actual flu infection, especially among vulnerable populations.
Bio
Thank you.
I've read some crazy stuff myself; some near-smack-downs between doctors quoting various sources.
I appreciate your impassioned as well as clear and concise writing on this subject.
I'll be getting the H1N1 vaccine as soon as I can find a place to do so.
Ahhh, gee, Bio, my hair began falling out ages ago.
Sometimes I think I should stop trying to counter the gross misinformation that is spewed with regard to my evil profession, especially when we hear new and improved misinformation about MS from our own doctors.
Honestly, the people I worked with were largely honorable, hard-working and caring. I have worked with people from the CDC and have never seen such a group of people so dedicated to public health and disease prevention and monitoring.
What is a gal to do?
I stopped reading Mercola shortly after I found his site in 2004. He jumps on every fear bandwagon that pops up with his own brand of "science" all the while exhorting you to buy his book.
As you say, the risk of GBS is far more common from wild viruses or bacterial infections than it is from vaccines. I don't believe that most people know this.
And, oh yeah, Buy my book!
Q
Q
Quix, the "I've got something to sell, by the way" is such an obvious red flag...yet people seem to have blinders on when they encounter sites like that.
I also feel the same way about workers at the CDC, WHO, et al...good, dedicated people who are struggling against two tsunamis--deadly communicable diseases that are largely preventable and the sometimes equally deadly and viral misinformation campaigns that sprout up all over the Web. And they have to put up with being called killers or accused of being "in it for the money" (um...right, but that doctor peddling his books is in it for...?). Ugh. Such frustrating nonsense.
Like you, sometimes it seems like a losing battle. But I keep fighting it. Anywhere I encounter misinformation and have the opportunity to clarify the facts, I do it. I feel that at any point that some other person can encounter this misinformation, they also ought to find the facts right there next to it.
Bio
Thanks for this post. As usual, I've learn something that's going to help me make a decision. What would we do without you on this forum? There would be a huge gaping hole, I assure you.
I've already had my seasonal flu shot, and will get the H1N1 as soon as they're available.
I sure hate to think of what may be coming down the pike. It's already hit Texas pretty hard. I've been seeing lots of kids out sick from school with flu--some of which have been out for an entire week.
I would like to get the shot but I am sensitive to eggs (hives/ coughing) so I'm excluded. I have had the seasonal shot a few times, but have reacted to it (hives).
Just to say....I was one of the ones that received the "swine flu shot of 1976." Believe it or not, I have not had the flu of any kind since. Was it due to the swine flu shot, I doubt it.
Since I was diagnosed with MS 14 years ago, I have gotten my seasonal flu vaccine every year, with no more side effects than a sore and hot arm for a couple of days.
Quix, I believe that the H1N1 may not be widely available to the public in time to do any good. The H1N1 is already out there in full force. If we have to wait another month or two for the vaccine, it may be too late to build any immunity to the H1N1 flu. Even though I medically qualify to get it now, if it were available, I am waiting for mass quantities to be released to the public, so children and pregnant mothers get their shots first.
This flu strain is nothing to fool around with folks. You really need to give things a second thought, when deciding on whether to get the H1N1 vaccine. Everyone eventually getting it, will protect not only ourselves, but our babies out in this world and the precious mother's carrying our world's future....
Guess that's enough said. Each person has to decide for themselves. I just want to see ALL of you protected, because...DERN IT...I care about all of you and don't want to see you get sick. This dern flu is killing people....
Big Mouth Heather
I just wish they had had an MS vaccine when I was a kid!
Alex
Oh, yeah, wouldn't an MS vaccine be nice!
My MS nurse said that the H1N1 will keep rolling around like it has been, and that it won't be too late to get a shot when the vaccine becomes more widely available.
It is so widespread around here, they have had tents set up in some hospital parking lots to triage the possible flu patients coming in, to avoid giving it to other ED patients.
Take care, everyone, and stay well.
Kathy
Good discussion.
I would actually like to get the H1N1 vaccination, but only after all of the safety tests have been conducted. The problem with me and many other CFS and even fibromyalgia patients is that vaccinations often put us in a relapse. I've had several reactions to vaccations in the past.
According to the CDC, the majority of flu vaccines contain thimerosal. Some contain as much as 25 mcg of mercury per dose. This means that it may contain more than 250 times the Environmental Protection Agency’s safety limit for mercury. That is yet another concern of mine in regards to vaccinations.
I haven't heard of any reported severe reactions to the H1N1 vaccination yet, but there have been reports of severe reactions to the H1N1 nasal mist. You might want to google, "Woman Suffers Severe Reaction To H1N1 Mist" for one testimonial. A woman in Oregon was hospitalized after receiving the mist. So given my health and my reactions to some vaccinations in the past..... reports like this obviously concern me a great deal. And not to mention... the Gardasil vaccionation. You know how many young women are now chronically ill due to that vaccine ? I guess the best thing we can do is just keep informed and do our research. I do know that some of the information on the anti-H1N1 vaccination (not all vaccines) websites is inaccurate or does not back up their claims with research. But do I trust the CDC ? No way ! ; ^)
Oh great... I check out the social forum to get away from health matters and there is a post about H1N1 vaccination deaths in Sweden. I did a google search and sure enough... there are articles about this. = (
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/MedHelp-Social/H1N1-Vaccine-Side-Effects-Will-you-risk-it-now/show/1086459
I called my inturnests office. They took my request, will determine if I am elligable to recieve one of the few precious shots. I reminded them that I haveMS and that we are going to try to conceive in January. I am still waiting to hear.
I have a flu now, a cold has never put me down like this. Dont know what kind of flu, I dont know if it makes a difference what kind of flu it is. And since iy has kicked up my MS symptoms also, it is difficult to figure out what is what. But it has gone into my lungs and I have asthma so the dr did call in a antibiotic for me. My cog issues are worse right now so i can not think well or type well, so I am going closing this note..
stay well,
meg
The Sweden story was something written by a nonjournalist on a nonjournalism Website. There is no confirmation of these claims.
The mercury in the non-nasal version of the flu vaccine is a preservative called thimerosal, which is about 50% ethylmercury. That form of mercury differs in activity and toxicity from the scarier form, methylmercury. If you are concerned about mercury exposure, nasal vaccinations are not preserved with thimerosal, and neither are single-dose shots--thimerosal is used for multi-dose vials. If you have a concern, talk to your doctor about it. Please do not rely on information from unconfirmed sources (including me) about any of this. Here is a link to a Q&A from the CDC regarding flu vax and thimerosal: http://www.cdc.gov/Flu/about/qa/thimerosal.htm
If that breaks, it's cdc(dot)gov/Flu/about/qa/thimerosal(dot)htm
Please do what is best for you (and for the people around you), but do it with good information.
Bio
Re: relapses. Yes, an immunization may cause relapses in those people who are susceptible. HOWEVER it is very shortsighted to avoid the vaccine for this reason. The infection itself is SO MUCH MORE LIKELY TO CAUSE A SEVERE RELAPSE THAN THE VACCINE FOR IT.
It is always someone's personal choice, but please look at the WHOLE picture first.
Meg - I'm so sorry you caught the flu. There are few worse feelings in the world. And, you're right. It matters little, when you feel so bad, which strain it is. The only strain of the flu that is actually active right now is H1N1, so that is far and away the most likely. If you are still within the window of 48 hours or so please call your doctor to get on an anti-viral. They can help so much.
Quix
Thank you for this Quix.
I read up on the history of the 76 swine because it was started down the road from me all those yrs ago. It's an excellent history lesson if anyone is interested. Said (if I'm remembering correctly) that 43 mil people were vaccinated and when 500 were said to have GBS they pulled it. Of that 500 25 died.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no01/05-0965.htm
No disrespect to the families whom it undoubtedly affected - and who may be affected currently by vaccines and our future ones. Especially you Supermum who we cherish here on our forum. The viruses we are fighting to prevent are deadly.
Thank God for the Gardisil vaccine and those it's pretecting from the cancer causing virus. We've come a long way where womens health is concerned and this vaccine is just one proof of advancement. I've read recently where it will be given to men too - which I hope becomes more publicized.
Thank you Doc Q for the continuing education. Think we've become complacent where "flu" in general is concerned. This is very much a wake up call... wishing all health through this flu season.
-shell
Wish that this vaccine were more widely available - I would be happy to take it to go with my seasonal vaccine which I have already received.
Where I work is an incubator of all things germy and especially this flu. College campuses and dormitories are breeding grounds for every contagious germ imagineable.
The H1N1 is rampant now on campus - students and faculty alike are coming down with it. My coworker went home sick with it this week too. Hand disinfectant and obsessive hand washing are the order of the day. Our emergency isolation houses are full and there is talk of taking over a much larger space in our recreation complex to house sick students.
Two weeks ago a local kindergarten child died from H1N1 - this past week a 26 year old woman died. Both of these people were healthy before becoming infected with the H1N1.
Am I overly worried about this disease? Not really, because I am old enough to put this in historical perspective with other pandemic waves. But I am smart enough to recognize that this virus has the potential to create havoc in an unusual proportion of numbers.
Influenza deaths occur every year - but normally those deaths are among the population that is already compromised with their health. That isn't the case with the H1N1.
The risk from vaccines is considerably less than the risk from contracting this flu or any other influenza.
It saddens me that we live in a time where there is such mistrust in our government and also the ease at which many will disseminate false information about the dangers of the vaccines.
I realize that there are several different themes in my words here - there are so many angles to this story that it is hard to focus on just one.
And Meg, your symptoms sound just like those of the people I know working through the H1N1. Just watch for the signs that the cough has turned into something more serious.
stay healthy everyone - don't forget to scrub your hands often!
L
I agree... we must all look at the ENTIRE picture to make an informed decision. We must also weigh our risks, etc. It is just heartbreaking though for people, such as myself, who cannot tolerate some vaccinations. I know one CFS expert says that if you think you can survive the flu, then don't get the flu shot.
It is an agonizing decision for someone like me and other chronically ill patients who cannot tolerate some vaccinations. It also makes me question the safety of these vaccinations. Honestly.. if I were healthy..... knowing what I know now, I would refuse all flu shots.
I am taking important steps to boost my immune system, which includes eliminating sugar completely from my diet. I may get the vaccination after ALL of the safety tests have been completed and I will be watching adverse reaction reports closely. One other report that came out today was that the German Medical Association is now warning that the Swine flu vaccine is "unsuitable" for patients suffering from environmental diseases and other chronic multi-system illnesses. (google and you will find the article) So I'm getting ALL of the information and carefully reviewing it, so that I can make an informed decision.
As my friend, who is an attorney with CFS, says, "My gut says to live with the consequences and so I will either live with or die with the consequences. Choices."
I wish everyone here the best and pray that none of us will catch either the regular flu or the H1N1 flu.
Platelet Gal, for people in a situation in which they are better off not getting vaccinated--always something to discuss with your *doctor*--the rest of us have yet another reason to do it. We confer herd immunity that protects people who cannot be vaccinated. And the vaccination guidelines clearly state that certain populations should NOT receive the vaccine or should NOT receive the nasal vaccine. I'm not sure how anyone can predict whether or not they can survive the flu, which ordinarily kills between 30000 and 50000 people in the US alone (I'm actually sure that no one can predict their response to the infection), but I'm absolutely sure that those death numbers are far far higher than the zero deaths attributable to seasonal flu vaccines.
Safety testing of this vaccine formulation has been longstanding and has clearly shown the overwhelming safety. The only thing different in this formulation is the virus, and that's different every year in the flu vax. If a person has gotten flu vaccines in the past without incident, this should be no different for the vast majority of people.
I have multiple problems involving autoimmunity, and I get the seasonal flu vaccine yearly with no problems, as do my three children and my husband. We have all gotten our seasonal flu vaccines this year, and my children have also received a first does of the nasal H1N1 with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Meanwhile, healthy children in our community have died from H1N1 infection.
Bio
I have a relatively mild allergy to eggs, so I discussed whether I should get flu shots with my PCP. She told me that the benefits (for me) far outweigh any risks. My neurologist's office also stressed the importance of me getting my flu shots.
As I said before, as soon as I can find them, I'll get them.
The American Lung Association has a vaccine clinic finder web page, so you can try to find a flu vaccine clinic in your area. You just type in your zip code, and voila!
Kathy
The majority of people can tolerate vaccinations. But for those of us who cannot, it is horrible what we experience and I, and some of my physicians agree, that if I continue to get vaccinations that harm me, then it could hurt my overall health. There are some CFS patients who are now bedridden because of vaccinations. So although most people don't understand.... the fibro/CFS experts do. You might want to check out my concerns that I posted months ago to Prof. Garth Nicolson.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Autoimmune-Disorders/Swine-Flu-Concerns/show/1024327
I think I will ask Prof. Nicolson again about the safety of this vaccination and especially about the deaths in Europe. We all need to make an informed decision and especially people like me who cannot tolerate some vaccinations. For those people who are in the same boat that I'm in.... they understand.
Platelet Gal...I think you must have misread something. I'm agreeing with you in my post. I completely understand what you're saying. My point is that the rest of us should be vaccinated if possible just to protect populations, like yours, that cannot be.
The only two deaths I can find in Sweden were two elderly people--one in their 70s and one who was 90--who had severe chronic conditions and who died a few days after receiving a flu vaccination. That's not causative or even plausible as a link given their age and condition.
Bio
I asked my Neurologist on Wednesday if I should get the H1N1 vaccine and the answer was emphatically NO. I didn't get a why not though.
This is actually Quix on my sister's computer.
It seems that some of us have reasons to believe that we will be harmed by this vaccine. If we are advised by our doctors that it is not a good idea, then we should respect that. If we believe that we would be far better off getting the infection over receiving the vaccine and nothing will change that - then discussion is moot.
Plateletgal - If you believe that this vaccine is likely to harm you permanently, then by all means give it a pass and take your chances with the infection itself. I really don't think that anyone here will work to convince you otherwise.
For those of you that are still seeking information, not having a preconceived idea about the vaccine's safety, then that is what we are presenting.
Khiba - a couple people have been told by their neurologists to avoid the vaccine. It would be very nice to hear their reasoning. I believe you should comply with the advice given by the medical provider that you have chose to trust. However, I believe than that you should, then, make extra efforts to avoid the infection, including urging those around you to get vaccinated to avoid exposing you. And, if you get the H1N1 flu, then move heaven and earth to avoid giving it to others, especially those in a high-risk group.
The actual infection of the flu can stimulate the mother of all relapses in people who are sensitive to stimulation of the immune system. Remember that an actual infection stimulates the immune system for far longer, and to a much greater degree, than a vaccine does. The effect of the infection itself should be a large part of what we consider when we look at the vaccine. This means not only looking at what the infection will do to us, but also looking at who else we might infect if we get infected. I'm not sure that I could live with myself if I caught the flu and gave it to someone who then died of it.
In the end, it may be out of our hands, for a while. With the supply of H1N1 vaccine being delayed and in short supply, and with the new info that children will need two doses to develop full immunity, it may be months before we (as a second-line high risk group) can get access to it.
This strain of the flu will likely be with us for at least the next year and a half. Pandemics don't respect the yearly cycle like seasonal flu seems to. That means that even if the vaccine arrives for us some months down the line, we should still receive it.
Also, everyone should know that there are two different flu vaccines to receive: the normal seasonal vaccine (yearly flu shot) and the H1N1. So if you got your regular flu shot, you will likely have protection from the seasonal flu, which is not yet making the rounds in full force. You still need to receive the H1N1 shot (not nasal mist) UNLESS of course, you are a person with a definite reason not to or you refuse to. This is still all voluntary.
I have to say that, given the many dozens of millions of doses already given of the H1N1 vaccine worldwide, that a couple/several deaths in one country (Sweden) are what is being used to warn us that this vaccine is likely to be horribly unsafe (see above for the discussion of possible serious or fatal reactions). Given the kinds of terrifying warnings that are sweeping the internet we should already be seeing hundreds of these reactions and deaths here in this country. Approximately 20 million doses have been given out here. Yet all I am seeing are reports of deaths in previously healthy children and yound adults and pregnant women from the H1N1 infection itself.
Quix