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What neurologists REALLY think about patients
http://forums.****.net/showthread.php?t=870148
A lot of us here (the undiagnosed ones) are just one more big irritant in their workday.
All along I thought I was a regular, sentient person waking up in my house every morning, getting the newspaper and having breakfast, getting myself to work (always pushing through my unexplained dizziness and walking trouble and fatigue), petting my cat, reading a book, writing my Christmas letter, chatting with the neighbor kids--a person with a unique, subjective life, history, qualities, and activities of my very own, a human who experiences every waking minute of every day, even though the doctor knows nothing about all that.
Now it turns out I'm just another IRRITATING psychosomatic patient whose mind is causing her problems. Groan--another dizzy patient with paresthesias and "almost unbelievable" symptoms (as my first neuro kept saying at my first visit; why wasn't I smart enough to make that my LAST visit EVER with a neurologist?).
It sounds like practicing medicine these days is mainly about how good you are at hiding your irritation toward the 75 percent of your patients that you don't want to see. (Maybe they should make every patient spend three years seeing a psychiatrist before getting in to see a neurologist, or else create some other first-line specialty to screen out us non-diseased persons; they could call it ... umm, let's see ... psychosomatology? Some-are-psycho-ology?)
So, limbolanders, be kind to your neurologists (who didn't know WHAT they were getting into): don't go see them anymore.
A lot of us here (the undiagnosed ones) are just one more big irritant in their workday.
All along I thought I was a regular, sentient person waking up in my house every morning, getting the newspaper and having breakfast, getting myself to work (always pushing through my unexplained dizziness and walking trouble and fatigue), petting my cat, reading a book, writing my Christmas letter, chatting with the neighbor kids--a person with a unique, subjective life, history, qualities, and activities of my very own, a human who experiences every waking minute of every day, even though the doctor knows nothing about all that.
Now it turns out I'm just another IRRITATING psychosomatic patient whose mind is causing her problems. Groan--another dizzy patient with paresthesias and "almost unbelievable" symptoms (as my first neuro kept saying at my first visit; why wasn't I smart enough to make that my LAST visit EVER with a neurologist?).
It sounds like practicing medicine these days is mainly about how good you are at hiding your irritation toward the 75 percent of your patients that you don't want to see. (Maybe they should make every patient spend three years seeing a psychiatrist before getting in to see a neurologist, or else create some other first-line specialty to screen out us non-diseased persons; they could call it ... umm, let's see ... psychosomatology? Some-are-psycho-ology?)
So, limbolanders, be kind to your neurologists (who didn't know WHAT they were getting into): don't go see them anymore.
I am a limbolander - I've received care that has been all over the place. I think the quality of care really is dependent on a Doctor's personality traits and world views. If they view the world (or the people in them) cynically or have become desensitized to their concerns then it's time for reality check.
In my industry, many of us go through experiencing the very same process as many of our clients and I strongly feel that doing so once every few years, keeps it REAL and humbles you to the very concerns that plague clients. It is sad that Doctor's aren't required to attend classes that touch on very real life issues their patients have. Empathy is a far greater asset over sympathy in my opinion. It would do the industry a lot of good.
In my industry, many of us go through experiencing the very same process as many of our clients and I strongly feel that doing so once every few years, keeps it REAL and humbles you to the very concerns that plague clients. It is sad that Doctor's aren't required to attend classes that touch on very real life issues their patients have. Empathy is a far greater asset over sympathy in my opinion. It would do the industry a lot of good.
I guess I got lucky - because I actually did get my Neuro notes and she described me as a lovely young lady - I think I am older than her! LOl and she took everything I said seriously, calls when she says she is going to does what she says she will. Funny thing is I picked her from a list because she handled neuromuscular issues and was a woman!
How about getting a diagnosis, dutifully taking your Betaseron,then Copaxone shots, then getting the diagnosis taken away and being told to just exercise and take vitamins!!!
I have been through two neuros and an infectious disease specialist, the 2nd neuro is ok, he has helped alot with my migraine issue and has never belittled me. The infectious disease specialist is a joke, he blames everything on "viruses" and tells me there is nothing he can do to help me. I am done with him!!!
If there is nothing wrong with me, other than migraines, why does the left the left side of my body get weaker and weaker? I cant hold on to anything with out dropping it and I shake every time I attempt to do something. I have mentioned this several times, only to be ignored! I guess I will have to wait until I am completely immobile or a shaking mess for them to take action!!!
Best of luck to you, please remember you are not alone!!!!
I have been through two neuros and an infectious disease specialist, the 2nd neuro is ok, he has helped alot with my migraine issue and has never belittled me. The infectious disease specialist is a joke, he blames everything on "viruses" and tells me there is nothing he can do to help me. I am done with him!!!
If there is nothing wrong with me, other than migraines, why does the left the left side of my body get weaker and weaker? I cant hold on to anything with out dropping it and I shake every time I attempt to do something. I have mentioned this several times, only to be ignored! I guess I will have to wait until I am completely immobile or a shaking mess for them to take action!!!
Best of luck to you, please remember you are not alone!!!!
Hello, Nancy I read your post this is pretty scary stuff. It makes me want to go out and get all of my doctor notes. I wonder if this would fall under falsely implying information on a medical record. Which, I would say is a crime. It would be hard to prove but, if u have the proof then I would certainly not allow this to go on.
I could be wrong but, I think there is a number on your medical file that says if you think this information is false call this number and file I believe its called a grieveance. Now, don't quote me but, I'm also sure about this.
I would not let this go because u set the stage for other patients being treated wrong by this doctor. Don't be an abler be a leader. Stand up for what's right.
God bless you..... I'm so sorry that you had to hear this..... It's truly amazing isn't it.... I'm not surprised by this. I've worked in the medical field for a very long time myself and so, I've seen and heard it all.
Sending hugs to you.
Misty
I could be wrong but, I think there is a number on your medical file that says if you think this information is false call this number and file I believe its called a grieveance. Now, don't quote me but, I'm also sure about this.
I would not let this go because u set the stage for other patients being treated wrong by this doctor. Don't be an abler be a leader. Stand up for what's right.
God bless you..... I'm so sorry that you had to hear this..... It's truly amazing isn't it.... I'm not surprised by this. I've worked in the medical field for a very long time myself and so, I've seen and heard it all.
Sending hugs to you.
Misty
Changed insurance Jan. 1 and got my neuro's notes from my two visits in the last three years. Made me so angry. He made up a lot of stuff and wrote a dozen times in one report how the patient had "been told by multiple doctors that all her tests were normal" (false) and that "nothing was wrong" (no doctor ever told me that--he just made it up).
He turned a lot of my unusual symptoms into everyday things that everyone gets ("eye strain," "tired and winded"--he made those up out of thin air), and felt it necessary to repeat over and over how the patient was "emotionally distressed" and "extremely worried and upset about her symptoms" (I most certainly wasn't) and at other times he'd write how the patient was "cheerful about her medical issues"; make up your mind! So unbelievably patronizing.
Also how my MRIs were all completely normal, then two lines down mentions the lesions (nonspecific though they are), which in fact appear on every MRI. The Lhermitte's is not Lhermitte's because it doesn't go down the patient's spine. Her paresthesias never stay in one place (he wasn't LISTENING). He badly misrepresented the nature of my paresthesias in general.
He listed my specific questions and gave non-answers to them in the report. He attributed all my dizziness to an event (sudden hearing loss) that happened 16 years after the dizziness started. The neuro-exam report was, of course, lifted wholesale from some boilerplate, listing tests he didn't do (not that I think it would have made any difference). He mentioned my "refusal" to do an HIV test, even though I am a regular Red Cross blood donor, have no symptoms of HIV and no risk factors for it! Did I miss something?--is HIV in the differential diagnosis for MS!?
He also said that he would "at least yield to the patient" to have an LP done, as if I had demanded it; that makes me so mad, because I didn't bring it up or suggest it, I just agreed to it when HE suggested it. (They couldn't get spinal fluid out, so no results.)
This doctor is clearly an idiot (as evidenced by not only all the clearly incorrect or outdated things he said to me and put in his report, but also by his rather infantile Facebook page, which I found when I looked him up).
Yes, I sent in corrections--not official ones, since I will never show those reports to anyone. I just want to annoy him some more, since that's what I do best.
It's better NOT to know what doctors think about us. If you need more proof of that, see a couple of the new posts on that thread, mainly the one dated 12-29. I feel sick just reading how (too many) doctors see (too many of) their patients: as laughable, annoying, and/or trying to fool the doctor. Sorry if this offends anyone here. It's reality for some of us. A doctor's arrogance in thinking he/she knows everything about a patient--e.g., that wearing sunglasses indoors is a sign of an impossible patient (instead of perhaps a light-sensitive migraineur)--means that he/she is going to be working from WRONG assumptions and NO respect for what the patient is actually experiencing. It's all about the doctor (and what annoys him/her); it's not about the patient.
He turned a lot of my unusual symptoms into everyday things that everyone gets ("eye strain," "tired and winded"--he made those up out of thin air), and felt it necessary to repeat over and over how the patient was "emotionally distressed" and "extremely worried and upset about her symptoms" (I most certainly wasn't) and at other times he'd write how the patient was "cheerful about her medical issues"; make up your mind! So unbelievably patronizing.
Also how my MRIs were all completely normal, then two lines down mentions the lesions (nonspecific though they are), which in fact appear on every MRI. The Lhermitte's is not Lhermitte's because it doesn't go down the patient's spine. Her paresthesias never stay in one place (he wasn't LISTENING). He badly misrepresented the nature of my paresthesias in general.
He listed my specific questions and gave non-answers to them in the report. He attributed all my dizziness to an event (sudden hearing loss) that happened 16 years after the dizziness started. The neuro-exam report was, of course, lifted wholesale from some boilerplate, listing tests he didn't do (not that I think it would have made any difference). He mentioned my "refusal" to do an HIV test, even though I am a regular Red Cross blood donor, have no symptoms of HIV and no risk factors for it! Did I miss something?--is HIV in the differential diagnosis for MS!?
He also said that he would "at least yield to the patient" to have an LP done, as if I had demanded it; that makes me so mad, because I didn't bring it up or suggest it, I just agreed to it when HE suggested it. (They couldn't get spinal fluid out, so no results.)
This doctor is clearly an idiot (as evidenced by not only all the clearly incorrect or outdated things he said to me and put in his report, but also by his rather infantile Facebook page, which I found when I looked him up).
Yes, I sent in corrections--not official ones, since I will never show those reports to anyone. I just want to annoy him some more, since that's what I do best.
It's better NOT to know what doctors think about us. If you need more proof of that, see a couple of the new posts on that thread, mainly the one dated 12-29. I feel sick just reading how (too many) doctors see (too many of) their patients: as laughable, annoying, and/or trying to fool the doctor. Sorry if this offends anyone here. It's reality for some of us. A doctor's arrogance in thinking he/she knows everything about a patient--e.g., that wearing sunglasses indoors is a sign of an impossible patient (instead of perhaps a light-sensitive migraineur)--means that he/she is going to be working from WRONG assumptions and NO respect for what the patient is actually experiencing. It's all about the doctor (and what annoys him/her); it's not about the patient.
I have the most wonderful, compassionate, and diligent neurologist in the world. He listens, investigates, and speaks to me as an intelligent human being who is in pain. Real pain, not imagined pain. I wish all of you were this fortunate. My heart goes out to you. I am one of those who has all the symptoms and brain lesions but no positive test on my spinal fluid. My doctor has however listened to me and acknowledged that all of the symptoms I DO have point to the positive diagnosis. Prayers for all of you in limbo.
A doctor that has a good personality, a good heart, and generally cares or as love for people can take on any career path. It's just a lot of them don't see people but, dallors bills. These doctor set their own rules its not like they r following the law and their job is so hard because of this. I believe if you a good person, care about people, and are very educated and dedicated in learning then the career path that u take can be quit easy.
If your noneducated,interested,don't care about people and have a bad attitude you have set yourself up for failure...... No career path is easy. But, it takes a very special person to work in the medical field. Nobody going to hand these doctors in school a book that says this is what to expect and how to deal with patients. That would be like saying here is what's going to happen in your life....... If these doctors would like to have something like that I bet their professors would be very disappointed. It's called not only being book smart but, also having common sense.
Misty, stay positive everyone. Remember who you r and where u came from. Everyone will find a doctor that fits their situation in time...... Never ever give up hope. I would have to also add that some of these doctors who r uneducated will be moving out and new doctor who r more educated and have more experience with people will be moving in.... Happy holiday I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday that they deserve. And, has no more flare-ups or sickness so, we can all try and enjoy our family..
I would also like to say before anybody walks or rides into a doctor. Remember u are worth it. No matter what they tell u or the situation is. Say to yourself...... I'm worth it.
Love to all
If your noneducated,interested,don't care about people and have a bad attitude you have set yourself up for failure...... No career path is easy. But, it takes a very special person to work in the medical field. Nobody going to hand these doctors in school a book that says this is what to expect and how to deal with patients. That would be like saying here is what's going to happen in your life....... If these doctors would like to have something like that I bet their professors would be very disappointed. It's called not only being book smart but, also having common sense.
Misty, stay positive everyone. Remember who you r and where u came from. Everyone will find a doctor that fits their situation in time...... Never ever give up hope. I would have to also add that some of these doctors who r uneducated will be moving out and new doctor who r more educated and have more experience with people will be moving in.... Happy holiday I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday that they deserve. And, has no more flare-ups or sickness so, we can all try and enjoy our family..
I would also like to say before anybody walks or rides into a doctor. Remember u are worth it. No matter what they tell u or the situation is. Say to yourself...... I'm worth it.
Love to all
Well, didnt get a chance to read that because the link has now been blocked. But after reading so many responses .. I will say, Thankfully I have a WONDERFUL neurologist that specializes in MS. And funny thing is, first appointment at his office, the resident came in first and started asking questions and chalked all my symptoms up to "DEPRESSION" because I had a 5mo old at the time. I was like yo *******, this is my 3rd child and P.S. ive been depressed before, I know what THAT feels like, moron. It doesnt feel like this. Anyhoo...what i'm getting at is how ridiculed and what a spectacle I felt at that moment the resident was in the room with me and he made me feel sooooo small. But then, the REAL DOCTOR came in! And he has been a blessing, he is soft spoken and articulate, and thoughtful and so kind and listens to everything I say and answers every question I have, as honestly and thoughtfully as he can. He is also a pediatric neurologist that specializes in MS, matter fact he only has clinic in adult neurology where I go a few times a month, but he has been a god send. The 2 neuro's I had prior to him were ignorant and "know it alls" and screwed me up instead of helping. I guess it comes down to the fact that doctors are human, and just like their are ignorant, self righteous and rude inconsiderate people that walk past us every day, there are going to be doctors that act the same exact way. But .. I will say this, maybe they should find another field to work in, if they dont want to be compassionate!!
If doctors are so knowlegeable why are all these people not diagnosised. And, they don't want to deal with patients who have certain symptoms. Well, then your in the wrong field. We pay tons of money in insurance for doctors to treat and diagnosis. So, they should give respect when respect is due. Nobody is holding a gun to these neuro and saying u must see these many patients and u must take this job. This is a job they chose and so if they can't at lease respect their patients then why do they deserve respect.
Respect is not something given out. You need to earn it. If these doctors don't want to deal with their patients they can nicely say I'm sorry I can't help you. Be upfront and honestly. Why, they don't do this is because they want to charge insurance company for visits....... So, they create this burden of patients for themselves.. When its not needed..
So, what everything the patient fault ..... No way..... Anyone that believe this has a blinders on about the truth and facts...
All doctors need to be held accountable for their actions.. They can very easily improve their situation if they chose to.. I think its very say when we start blaming patient for neuro actions. My god what has this world become.. We have to trust and have faith in the medical field if we want any medical attention at all... It's simply not fair nor is it even acceptable that this is going on.... I'm so disappointed with this thread. Just hearing this? There are good doctors out there. And when you find a good doctor that when they should be given a lot of credit. Like I said this is something that is earned. If doctor don't want to listen or care they need to step down. They are still humans like us. They r not above us in any way. They just have more education and knowledge then we do. Which they should for the amount of money they make.
This is just crazy..... Uh those poor doctor they see way two many people. New flash they chose this job. What we didn't chose is to be disrespected by these jerks... I'm not saying all doctors are but, reality is they r in it for they money. And, if that's not true why do we have high insurance?
Reality is a good wake up call. Why some of us just can't see this nor accept it is. Denial of the truth........ I'm sorry but this is very offence. And, I will never respect a doctor who doesn't respect me.
Remember you r paying them. They r not paying you. The doctors need to take responsiablity for what their being paid to do.
And, that is care for patients..... Not judge people. That's not their job unless they decide they r going to walk in their patients shoes. Until then they have no right. Last time I checked that might be under a phychologist or maybe a therapist.
I think we need to sit back and think about what is actually valued in life. And how important life really is........ It's called having a personailty check.
Misty....... I can't believe what I've read.
Respect is not something given out. You need to earn it. If these doctors don't want to deal with their patients they can nicely say I'm sorry I can't help you. Be upfront and honestly. Why, they don't do this is because they want to charge insurance company for visits....... So, they create this burden of patients for themselves.. When its not needed..
So, what everything the patient fault ..... No way..... Anyone that believe this has a blinders on about the truth and facts...
All doctors need to be held accountable for their actions.. They can very easily improve their situation if they chose to.. I think its very say when we start blaming patient for neuro actions. My god what has this world become.. We have to trust and have faith in the medical field if we want any medical attention at all... It's simply not fair nor is it even acceptable that this is going on.... I'm so disappointed with this thread. Just hearing this? There are good doctors out there. And when you find a good doctor that when they should be given a lot of credit. Like I said this is something that is earned. If doctor don't want to listen or care they need to step down. They are still humans like us. They r not above us in any way. They just have more education and knowledge then we do. Which they should for the amount of money they make.
This is just crazy..... Uh those poor doctor they see way two many people. New flash they chose this job. What we didn't chose is to be disrespected by these jerks... I'm not saying all doctors are but, reality is they r in it for they money. And, if that's not true why do we have high insurance?
Reality is a good wake up call. Why some of us just can't see this nor accept it is. Denial of the truth........ I'm sorry but this is very offence. And, I will never respect a doctor who doesn't respect me.
Remember you r paying them. They r not paying you. The doctors need to take responsiablity for what their being paid to do.
And, that is care for patients..... Not judge people. That's not their job unless they decide they r going to walk in their patients shoes. Until then they have no right. Last time I checked that might be under a phychologist or maybe a therapist.
I think we need to sit back and think about what is actually valued in life. And how important life really is........ It's called having a personailty check.
Misty....... I can't believe what I've read.
I do not find any of this upsetting or surprising. You could not pay me to be a Neurologist and especially a MS Specialist. The one's I know are near saints. This is one of the lowest paid specialties in medicines even though most of these folks come out of school double board certified in psychiatry and neurology. They only really get paid for procedures which they do not do. My Doctors have thousands of patients a piece, no wonder they do not remember who I am.
In our area money is offered by the MS Society to an Resident in Neurology who are interested in MS. In ten years they have offered the money there have been no takers.
Medicare and Medicaid cut the reimbursement rate for Neurologists every day. If I had a really hard job I would want to be paid fairly.
The MS Specialists we have volunteer a lot of their time with the MS Society serving on boards and giving talks. One you can even see running in the fundraisers. They believe in their patients it is hard. I try to tell them thank you when I see them.
If I went into medicine I would want to be a surgeon who gets to see something fixed or an obstetrician who sees a new life. Not have a hundred patients a day calling with problems I can't solve.
Alex
In our area money is offered by the MS Society to an Resident in Neurology who are interested in MS. In ten years they have offered the money there have been no takers.
Medicare and Medicaid cut the reimbursement rate for Neurologists every day. If I had a really hard job I would want to be paid fairly.
The MS Specialists we have volunteer a lot of their time with the MS Society serving on boards and giving talks. One you can even see running in the fundraisers. They believe in their patients it is hard. I try to tell them thank you when I see them.
If I went into medicine I would want to be a surgeon who gets to see something fixed or an obstetrician who sees a new life. Not have a hundred patients a day calling with problems I can't solve.
Alex
There's no reason anyone would request that this thread be taken down by the moderators - it is a great discussion based on what has been posted in a public venue by about a dozen or so neuros who are obviously blowing off steam and venting about their frustrations (career choice, patient complaints, etc.).
I find it a fascinating read as well as insightful. I was just listening to a surgeon talk on doctor radio yesterday about how they typically learn to detach themselves from their patients - get in, do the surgery and get on to the next patient without ever getting to know the person or getting emotionally invested. I wonder how many doctors are disappointed with their career choice after they have spent years getting it done.
It is too bad that doctors aren't required to take personality tests to determine their style before they select their specialty.
I have gone back and read this new doctor thread again and there is a lot of positive in there about dealing with challenges, liking to work in the black box of neurology and being satisfied with their choice. And it appears pretty spot on when the one doc talks about having all those difficult to explain cases dumped on them by all the non-neuros. We all know the stories of being passed from one doc to another to another and eventually ending up at a neuro because the other doctors have run out of ideas or enthusiasm to pursue a dx.
Yes, I would also agree that several of these doctors sound like real jerks and I'm glad none of them are mine.
best,
Lulu
I find it a fascinating read as well as insightful. I was just listening to a surgeon talk on doctor radio yesterday about how they typically learn to detach themselves from their patients - get in, do the surgery and get on to the next patient without ever getting to know the person or getting emotionally invested. I wonder how many doctors are disappointed with their career choice after they have spent years getting it done.
It is too bad that doctors aren't required to take personality tests to determine their style before they select their specialty.
I have gone back and read this new doctor thread again and there is a lot of positive in there about dealing with challenges, liking to work in the black box of neurology and being satisfied with their choice. And it appears pretty spot on when the one doc talks about having all those difficult to explain cases dumped on them by all the non-neuros. We all know the stories of being passed from one doc to another to another and eventually ending up at a neuro because the other doctors have run out of ideas or enthusiasm to pursue a dx.
Yes, I would also agree that several of these doctors sound like real jerks and I'm glad none of them are mine.
best,
Lulu
I never had good luck with any of the Neurologists I saw. I felt they were arrogant, shrugged off my symptoms, talked down to me and brushed me off. I finally ended up in Internal Medicine and from there have only had great doctors! Medical Oncology, Hematology, imaging, transfusion medicine, and all the oncology nurses are some of the greatest medical proffessionals you will meet! My only reasoning is that neurology seems to rely on patients describing their symptoms, where as internal medicine etc is based on following blood tests / markers? Unless you have a clear cut MS diagnosis with tonnes of MRI evidence that is....
Suma, sorry you had such a long and bad experience with a doctor who didn't listen. "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts." Yes, it is a struggle for many, many people.
I don't think anything I have written above could even be construed as an attempt to hurt doctors' feelings or "bash" them. I'm merely pointing out what THEY THEMSELVES said about their attitude/feelings toward many patients (those they don't want to take care of because they're "tiresome," uninteresting, or whatever). And I asked a few pointed but honest questions.
I think a lot of people here have sensed that attitude in their own doctors. And here are doctors saying it straight out, themselves.
Almost all the posts on that thread were negative (in one way or another--toward patient care, the administration, or the consequences of the doctors' choice of field) or merely flippant.
My intent was not to offend but to point out the hard reality.
The hard reality for patients that many doctors really don't want to deal with you if you have certain types of symptoms, or if you are going to be a long-term burden to them.
The hard reality for some doctors that nobody told them what they were getting into when they chose a field that involved listening to run-of-the-mill patients all day.
Bummer for both sides. Expectations cruelly disappointed. Illusions stripped away to reveal the hard, unavoidable truth.
I don't think anything I have written above could even be construed as an attempt to hurt doctors' feelings or "bash" them. I'm merely pointing out what THEY THEMSELVES said about their attitude/feelings toward many patients (those they don't want to take care of because they're "tiresome," uninteresting, or whatever). And I asked a few pointed but honest questions.
I think a lot of people here have sensed that attitude in their own doctors. And here are doctors saying it straight out, themselves.
Almost all the posts on that thread were negative (in one way or another--toward patient care, the administration, or the consequences of the doctors' choice of field) or merely flippant.
My intent was not to offend but to point out the hard reality.
The hard reality for patients that many doctors really don't want to deal with you if you have certain types of symptoms, or if you are going to be a long-term burden to them.
The hard reality for some doctors that nobody told them what they were getting into when they chose a field that involved listening to run-of-the-mill patients all day.
Bummer for both sides. Expectations cruelly disappointed. Illusions stripped away to reveal the hard, unavoidable truth.
Nancy, the board goes back and forth on bashing and then not bashing neuro's. There is an entire thread devoted to Lies My Neuro Told Me.
I guess it depends on who is writing and how the posters are feeling that day. Why? It is anyone's guess. The board is made up of one third not being dxed. The rest have been dxed. Many had struggles getting an answer sitting for years knowing something was wrong.
Maybe they forget the struggle?
I personally searched ten years. I don't have much respect for the medical community. I don't much care if they come here and get their little ol feelings hurt. Most do NOT listen to the patient. Most do most certainly make up their mind in the early stages of what is or is not of importance.
The idiot I sat under I believe thought it was a cute game my husband and I played. Me being the sick wife and him being the protective caretaker. It would not have mattered what I told the fool, I didn't have anything but a pinched nerve.
What you have written is deserved. Period.
I guess it depends on who is writing and how the posters are feeling that day. Why? It is anyone's guess. The board is made up of one third not being dxed. The rest have been dxed. Many had struggles getting an answer sitting for years knowing something was wrong.
Maybe they forget the struggle?
I personally searched ten years. I don't have much respect for the medical community. I don't much care if they come here and get their little ol feelings hurt. Most do NOT listen to the patient. Most do most certainly make up their mind in the early stages of what is or is not of importance.
The idiot I sat under I believe thought it was a cute game my husband and I played. Me being the sick wife and him being the protective caretaker. It would not have mattered what I told the fool, I didn't have anything but a pinched nerve.
What you have written is deserved. Period.
Thanks, Lulu... did not realize that about other forums
Even if most neurologists like their FIELD, that's not the same as liking to take care of the bulk of patients that come their way. How else to interpret things like the following (and that's leaving aside all the flippant jokes):
"Patient care interferes with practicing medicine."
"Temporary insanity" as a reason for going into neurology.
"I try to minimize my exposure to the general neurology population."
Headaches and dizziness as a reason for referral "occur way more than I would like." (Way more than you'd like? So dizziness and headaches shouldn't be referred?)
It's a "painful game of hot potato" when patients and doctors don't appreciate the ability of the brain/mind to make the body sick (what I wonder is, how do the neuros know that years later an organic diagnosis isn't made?). Patients are hot potatoes.... I feel like we should apologize.
You have to try to "insulate yourself" against patients with chronic pain, dysphoria, dizziness, headaches, etc.
Chronic pain patients are "tiresome."
The doctor who said much of this stuff is praised as "brave" for saying it. Meaning, it's true, but generally kept hidden.
Headaches and dizziness are "vague/psychosomatic" symptoms. What is "vague" about a headache or a moving world? How does the doc KNOW it's psychosomatic? But apparently this doc feels OK with ASSUMING headaches and dizziness are psychosomatic.
For the record, I am not a doctor-basher. I know they have a horribly tough job, and I don't understand why any sane person would want to start on that career path today, given the many pressures on doctors from all sides (besides the fact that it's just got to be an incredibly hard job in itself). I never assume a doctor, or most doctors, are just in it for the money, are quacks, arrogant, don't know anything, etc. as one often sees said. I respect their training and knowledge and think that for the most part they have good intentions. But if they don't want to deal with a large percentage of their patients--with the actual problems their patients are having, which are none the less troubling because they might be psychosomatic--they really should not be in the field that they are.
What that thread really sounds like to me is, the counseling or advising services for prospective doctors are sadly lacking, because clearly they aren't telling neurologists (at least) what they're getting into if they're going to do patient care.
That said--Lulu, if you or the Medhelp powers that be feel this thread is inappropriate, I will understand if it's deleted.
Perhaps only patients who've repeatedly had speedy "dispositions" of their cases by being peremptorily swept under the rug can feel the pain of being seen in this way. This thread only confirms what I suspected doctors feel about many of us as unwanted patients.
Even if most neurologists like their FIELD, that's not the same as liking to take care of the bulk of patients that come their way. How else to interpret things like the following (and that's leaving aside all the flippant jokes):
"Patient care interferes with practicing medicine."
"Temporary insanity" as a reason for going into neurology.
"I try to minimize my exposure to the general neurology population."
Headaches and dizziness as a reason for referral "occur way more than I would like." (Way more than you'd like? So dizziness and headaches shouldn't be referred?)
It's a "painful game of hot potato" when patients and doctors don't appreciate the ability of the brain/mind to make the body sick (what I wonder is, how do the neuros know that years later an organic diagnosis isn't made?). Patients are hot potatoes.... I feel like we should apologize.
You have to try to "insulate yourself" against patients with chronic pain, dysphoria, dizziness, headaches, etc.
Chronic pain patients are "tiresome."
The doctor who said much of this stuff is praised as "brave" for saying it. Meaning, it's true, but generally kept hidden.
Headaches and dizziness are "vague/psychosomatic" symptoms. What is "vague" about a headache or a moving world? How does the doc KNOW it's psychosomatic? But apparently this doc feels OK with ASSUMING headaches and dizziness are psychosomatic.
For the record, I am not a doctor-basher. I know they have a horribly tough job, and I don't understand why any sane person would want to start on that career path today, given the many pressures on doctors from all sides (besides the fact that it's just got to be an incredibly hard job in itself). I never assume a doctor, or most doctors, are just in it for the money, are quacks, arrogant, don't know anything, etc. as one often sees said. I respect their training and knowledge and think that for the most part they have good intentions. But if they don't want to deal with a large percentage of their patients--with the actual problems their patients are having, which are none the less troubling because they might be psychosomatic--they really should not be in the field that they are.
What that thread really sounds like to me is, the counseling or advising services for prospective doctors are sadly lacking, because clearly they aren't telling neurologists (at least) what they're getting into if they're going to do patient care.
That said--Lulu, if you or the Medhelp powers that be feel this thread is inappropriate, I will understand if it's deleted.
Perhaps only patients who've repeatedly had speedy "dispositions" of their cases by being peremptorily swept under the rug can feel the pain of being seen in this way. This thread only confirms what I suspected doctors feel about many of us as unwanted patients.
Lordy, I sat down and made a list of these names..........if I need a neuro in about 10 yrs, other than the jewel I have, I will make sure none of these dudes are on my "choice" list.........LOL
Are they not aware these forums are public information? egads..........
But did enjoy hearing what they really think about us!
Are they not aware these forums are public information? egads..........
But did enjoy hearing what they really think about us!
I have no clue why that link was blocked other than they have forums to discuss things and MH doesn't like any site that has forums.
If you reread this doctor thread you might see that the majority of the respondents aren't complaining about their patients, and in fact sound like they really care for their chosen field of neurology. JMO
Dropping in on their site without putting it into some type of historical context would be much like a neuro stopping in here and finding our Friday night neuro roast posts. I imagine they would be shocked and disgusted as well. LOL
Lulu
If you reread this doctor thread you might see that the majority of the respondents aren't complaining about their patients, and in fact sound like they really care for their chosen field of neurology. JMO
Dropping in on their site without putting it into some type of historical context would be much like a neuro stopping in here and finding our Friday night neuro roast posts. I imagine they would be shocked and disgusted as well. LOL
Lulu
That's funny... I wonder why part of the URL has been starred out? Any of the moderators know?
I'll re-paste it here and see what happens. The missing piece was "studentdoctor".
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=870148
I'll re-paste it here and see what happens. The missing piece was "studentdoctor".
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=870148
I really feel bad for those of you in limbo. I did get a quick diagnosis but only because my spinal tap shocked my neuro and turned out positive. I was treated very much this way on my first visit. And that was WITH a MRI showing 3 lesions, trigeminal neuralgia, and sensory issues. He said he didn't see anything that "screamed" MS. I was in tears when I left because he refused to treat the trigeminal neuralgia and boldly said it didn't present classically and HE didn't believe that was my problem. With each symptom I described he asked me "Did you read about that on the internet?" He did a spinal tap to humor me be expected not to find anything. Turned out positive...5 unique O-bands. His attitude was completely different when I went back to start on Copaxone but I am still changing doctors because of the way he treated me on that first visit. If he didn't believe me then, why will he believe me when I have relapse symptoms. I need a neuro I can trust.
While it wasn't the result I wanted, I am glad since I do have it that my spinal was positive. I really feel bad for those of you who have all these symptoms with no answers and no help. However, there ARE good doctors and you need to search until you find one. We all know how difficult this is to live with dx or not! Hang in there!
While it wasn't the result I wanted, I am glad since I do have it that my spinal was positive. I really feel bad for those of you who have all these symptoms with no answers and no help. However, there ARE good doctors and you need to search until you find one. We all know how difficult this is to live with dx or not! Hang in there!
I couldn't get into this thread? Could someone message me and "copy/paste" the link to me?
Thanks
Thanks
It's a lot easier for the doctors to blame us than to actually care about a patient. We need to all start asking them. If there is nothing wrong why are we here?
They have to live with themself.
Stay positive, Never give up........... When u find a doctor that actually cares go back to the doctor that didn't and confront him.
Making him/ her feel very small....... It will then change.
Good luck to all, take care, Happy holidays
Misty
They have to live with themself.
Stay positive, Never give up........... When u find a doctor that actually cares go back to the doctor that didn't and confront him.
Making him/ her feel very small....... It will then change.
Good luck to all, take care, Happy holidays
Misty
That explains everything.
I think us limbo-landers humanize them and make them realize they are no smarter than the average person and they do not want to think of themselves as being of normal intelligence.
So we burst their bubbles and knock over their pedestals they lifted themselves up on. Then they have to look at themselves in a mirror and realize they are no better or smarter.
The unfortunate thing is instead of facing it they decide we are the crazy ones as they try to climb back up on their man made pedestals.
It is very sad and maddening. This should not though discourage but open our eyes that they are just normal and the chances of finding the truly smart one the first time around is slim… Keep looking and keep pushing the good ones are out there.
I think us limbo-landers humanize them and make them realize they are no smarter than the average person and they do not want to think of themselves as being of normal intelligence.
So we burst their bubbles and knock over their pedestals they lifted themselves up on. Then they have to look at themselves in a mirror and realize they are no better or smarter.
The unfortunate thing is instead of facing it they decide we are the crazy ones as they try to climb back up on their man made pedestals.
It is very sad and maddening. This should not though discourage but open our eyes that they are just normal and the chances of finding the truly smart one the first time around is slim… Keep looking and keep pushing the good ones are out there.
Read that thread didn't make me sad, just disgusted. No wonder it took over 20 years for me to get my DX.
In summary what I got out of what they were saying is they wanted big bucks to play like they were doctors and not have to think about anything.
I guess they watched too many doctor shows on TV when they were growing up and the doctors knew immediately what was wrong with a patient just by looking at him because it was in the script for the show.
Dennis
In summary what I got out of what they were saying is they wanted big bucks to play like they were doctors and not have to think about anything.
I guess they watched too many doctor shows on TV when they were growing up and the doctors knew immediately what was wrong with a patient just by looking at him because it was in the script for the show.
Dennis
Wow! Reading that made me feel so sad. I guess I fall into the category of a difficult patient with psychosomatic issues.
I guess this feeling of dizziness, the numb face, my tingly arms and legs, the exhaustion that reduces me to tears is all "in my head".
This really got me "and I hate it when I have to refer my patients to the neurologist because I feel that they (the neurologists) would now have to deal with this difficult patient."
So, as I get ready for my work day of running my own business, doing the school runs, raising my 4 kids, planning dinner etc all the while trying to ignore the fact that I feel like rubbish (with no reason explained why) I will spare a thought for the poor POOR doctors who have to "put up with us".
Hug Nancy x
I guess this feeling of dizziness, the numb face, my tingly arms and legs, the exhaustion that reduces me to tears is all "in my head".
This really got me "and I hate it when I have to refer my patients to the neurologist because I feel that they (the neurologists) would now have to deal with this difficult patient."
So, as I get ready for my work day of running my own business, doing the school runs, raising my 4 kids, planning dinner etc all the while trying to ignore the fact that I feel like rubbish (with no reason explained why) I will spare a thought for the poor POOR doctors who have to "put up with us".
Hug Nancy x
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