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Hoshimoto muscle pain - in depth
Since I'm on a quest to learn more about Hashimoto Muscle pain, thought I'd start a post on it.
After decades of Hashimoto symptoms I feel a lot better, no thanks to the healthcare system that did almost nothing for my condition. This forum was tons of help. Like others, my remaining and lingering symptom is muscle tension that re-occurs for no reason. I'm pretty sure that competing in endurance events for 15 years WHILE HYPO and then another 10 more under-medicated created scar tissue and muscle adhesions from the very slow muscle recovery. How did I do that while hypo ?- Dr.s said nothing was wrong. Well, obviously they were wrong. I now know that being hypo promotes the build up of lactic acid in muscle tissue creating knots and muscle pain, slowing muscle recocery.
Over the last five tears I have learned and developed my very own techniques for releasing muscle tension using several small sizes of sports balls, the living room floor, the stairway, my knuckles and good old gravity working with and against my body weight. Other techniques are out their but require someone to help. Its effective and cost saving but only provides a a few days of relief. Even if a trained "body worker" makes the knots go away, its only temporary and they say this is highly unusual in there practice.
Light exercise seems to be the best for my pain. With no exercise I will tighten up in a week. Heavy exercise requires my routine of techniques the next several days to keep the muscle tension to a minimum. This is by no means normal for the human body, and not a question of fitness as I was also like this in my fitness prime, years ago. I still have higher endurance than most 45 year olds when my T3 is in the upper third of the range, but the muscle tension starting the day after exercise is very abnormal and others for comparison, will not be sore. I think many people with this condition decide to be less active, not really their fist choice I bet. I just cant do that since you only live once, plus I live for the great outdoors.
This old Med Help post pretty much shows that muscle pain is no stranger to people with Hashimoto, pretty long post :
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Cancer-Nodules--Hyperthyroidism/Hashimotos-and-Muscle-tightness/show/263700
There is no lab test to show pain, but any body worker can 'feel' extreme tension in someones tight muscles and this is obviously not normal. Many will say certain muscles feel rock hard for no reasons like injury ect.
Its interesting how many in the above link started to have muscle tension in the neck then shoulders and upper part of the body followed by pain in the hips and carpal tunnel similarities. I have read that same pattern in other posts over the years.
Many here have read my comments for treating Hashimoto muscle pain with Magnessium Glycinate, FT3 in the upper 3rd of the range, Trigger Point Therapy, Active Release Technique, Myofasial Release and Nerve glide stretches being an effective part of treatment for those with lingering muscle tension. Many of these active treatment can be found on You-tube. Some you can do yourself.
In my personal experience, my muscle tension was worse when I used to take only T4 meds, regardless of what the dose was. I upped my D3, makes no difference. B12 makes me jittery. B6 makes no difference. Tried gluten free - no difference in muscle pain.
Plan on reading up on the many amino acids, just sratched the surface and not any info so far in taking any of these with Hashimoto. I have tried 1600 mg of malic acid daily (capsule form), which supposedly rids the body of excess lactic acid. It might have help muscle pain but, being an acid, it disturbed my stomach.
I plan on bumping this up now and then hoping others will add to it, what helped them - like that old post link above. Hopefully myself and others can learn something about this condition while our health care system seems to ignore it.
thanks,
LM
After decades of Hashimoto symptoms I feel a lot better, no thanks to the healthcare system that did almost nothing for my condition. This forum was tons of help. Like others, my remaining and lingering symptom is muscle tension that re-occurs for no reason. I'm pretty sure that competing in endurance events for 15 years WHILE HYPO and then another 10 more under-medicated created scar tissue and muscle adhesions from the very slow muscle recovery. How did I do that while hypo ?- Dr.s said nothing was wrong. Well, obviously they were wrong. I now know that being hypo promotes the build up of lactic acid in muscle tissue creating knots and muscle pain, slowing muscle recocery.
Over the last five tears I have learned and developed my very own techniques for releasing muscle tension using several small sizes of sports balls, the living room floor, the stairway, my knuckles and good old gravity working with and against my body weight. Other techniques are out their but require someone to help. Its effective and cost saving but only provides a a few days of relief. Even if a trained "body worker" makes the knots go away, its only temporary and they say this is highly unusual in there practice.
Light exercise seems to be the best for my pain. With no exercise I will tighten up in a week. Heavy exercise requires my routine of techniques the next several days to keep the muscle tension to a minimum. This is by no means normal for the human body, and not a question of fitness as I was also like this in my fitness prime, years ago. I still have higher endurance than most 45 year olds when my T3 is in the upper third of the range, but the muscle tension starting the day after exercise is very abnormal and others for comparison, will not be sore. I think many people with this condition decide to be less active, not really their fist choice I bet. I just cant do that since you only live once, plus I live for the great outdoors.
This old Med Help post pretty much shows that muscle pain is no stranger to people with Hashimoto, pretty long post :
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Cancer-Nodules--Hyperthyroidism/Hashimotos-and-Muscle-tightness/show/263700
There is no lab test to show pain, but any body worker can 'feel' extreme tension in someones tight muscles and this is obviously not normal. Many will say certain muscles feel rock hard for no reasons like injury ect.
Its interesting how many in the above link started to have muscle tension in the neck then shoulders and upper part of the body followed by pain in the hips and carpal tunnel similarities. I have read that same pattern in other posts over the years.
Many here have read my comments for treating Hashimoto muscle pain with Magnessium Glycinate, FT3 in the upper 3rd of the range, Trigger Point Therapy, Active Release Technique, Myofasial Release and Nerve glide stretches being an effective part of treatment for those with lingering muscle tension. Many of these active treatment can be found on You-tube. Some you can do yourself.
In my personal experience, my muscle tension was worse when I used to take only T4 meds, regardless of what the dose was. I upped my D3, makes no difference. B12 makes me jittery. B6 makes no difference. Tried gluten free - no difference in muscle pain.
Plan on reading up on the many amino acids, just sratched the surface and not any info so far in taking any of these with Hashimoto. I have tried 1600 mg of malic acid daily (capsule form), which supposedly rids the body of excess lactic acid. It might have help muscle pain but, being an acid, it disturbed my stomach.
I plan on bumping this up now and then hoping others will add to it, what helped them - like that old post link above. Hopefully myself and others can learn something about this condition while our health care system seems to ignore it.
thanks,
LM
Even this site talks about exercising issues , muscle weakness, repetitive injury with Hashimoto. Limited info on this, Drs seem cluless.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/322883-how-to-build-muscle-with-hashimotos/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/322883-how-to-build-muscle-with-hashimotos/
Magnesium Taurate also works pretty good with minimal effect in the digestive area - so you can take more of it. The downside of this blend is it can make blood sugar levels fluctuate greatly in people with blood sugar issues - I dont know why this is.
As a rule of thumb for quite some time its been said to separate vitamin and mineral supplements for 4 hours from thyroid med taken orally. Muscle repair occurs while your sleeping, not in the waking hours so it makes sense to take a Mag supplement before bed.
As a rule of thumb for quite some time its been said to separate vitamin and mineral supplements for 4 hours from thyroid med taken orally. Muscle repair occurs while your sleeping, not in the waking hours so it makes sense to take a Mag supplement before bed.
I've been taking magnesium citrate to help my constipation recently and also though it helps muscles. It doesn't help muscles - glycinate does.
On the plus side I didn't read any ting about having to wait four hours after/before thyroid meds. Is that right or do you think it's best to wait for any mineral?
On the plus side I didn't read any ting about having to wait four hours after/before thyroid meds. Is that right or do you think it's best to wait for any mineral?
Bannanas = potassium. I took potassium for a while thinkng it helped, but after 6 months decided it didnt help me.
You sound like a good candidate for Magnessium glycinate or the CALM brand that is a tasty powdered mix - 4 hours from any thy meds though.
You sound like a good candidate for Magnessium glycinate or the CALM brand that is a tasty powdered mix - 4 hours from any thy meds though.
My thoughts exactly; your whole body can get sore from just working out a specific muscle group, which is not normal. Just backs one beliefe that Hashimoto is primarily a whole body inflamamation process that also attacks the thyroid with antibodies. I have read in trigger point books that Lactic acid does build up in Hashimoto people, but its mostly people that exersice that will notice. You might google malic acid , and try it. Hopfully it will be kinder to your stomack than it was to mine. Some body builders use malic acid for its lactic acid flusing abilities.
In my first post I mentioned I have decent endurance, I should have clarified that as Cardio endurance, not muscle endurance. But if my frees drop, my cardio goes south real fast, and cant get my breath - I have read posts on this quite a few times.
In my first post I mentioned I have decent endurance, I should have clarified that as Cardio endurance, not muscle endurance. But if my frees drop, my cardio goes south real fast, and cant get my breath - I have read posts on this quite a few times.
I have muscle aches as a symptom and went for two massages over a two week period because my muscles, especially in one foot, hurt so much. Even the massage hurt. The masseuse said he uses tennis balls and rolls around on them. He recommend that for my foot.
A few days after my last massage and continued aches and pains, I got my lab results and am now aware (again cause I keep forgetting) that it's due to my (hypo) thyroid. Not because of my mattress, that I slept funny or had a bad massage etc.
I've also have several days of muscle pain after exercise including yoga!
"I think many people with this condition decide to be less active, not really their fist choice I bet." That's what I've done. I'm very inactive except for walking to get around.
However, based on my recent labs, and despite supressed TSH my doctor has increased my Tirosint from 88 to 100 and left Cytomel 10 the same. Actually, he didn't specify weather or not I should increase Cytomel, but I will initially. I went from Levoxyl 100 to Tirosint 100 and Cytomel 10 (because my FT3 was below range) and just when I was starting to feel better, but still hypo, he reduced my Tirosint because of suppressed TSH, but maybe he's learning since he's letting me go back up.
He also instructed my to exercise because of high LDL cholesterol. I have never consistently exercised in my life so this will be a good experiment.
I'll keep you posted on muscle pain, recover time and anything I find helpful.
I have read that you should eat certain foods within 30 minutes of exercising. This is from a website that I don't know if I can post the link to. "high quality source of protein (whole food) and vegetable-type carbohydrate. An example would be a spinach salad and some organic chicken. The best post-workout meal on resistance training days is whey protein and a higher glycemic (fast released, starchy) carbohydrate (such as banana)"
However, I have tried banana hoping I have less muscle aches the next day. Hard to tell if it makes a difference since you can't be in two places at once, but my muscles still ache even having consumed a banana.
A few days after my last massage and continued aches and pains, I got my lab results and am now aware (again cause I keep forgetting) that it's due to my (hypo) thyroid. Not because of my mattress, that I slept funny or had a bad massage etc.
I've also have several days of muscle pain after exercise including yoga!
"I think many people with this condition decide to be less active, not really their fist choice I bet." That's what I've done. I'm very inactive except for walking to get around.
However, based on my recent labs, and despite supressed TSH my doctor has increased my Tirosint from 88 to 100 and left Cytomel 10 the same. Actually, he didn't specify weather or not I should increase Cytomel, but I will initially. I went from Levoxyl 100 to Tirosint 100 and Cytomel 10 (because my FT3 was below range) and just when I was starting to feel better, but still hypo, he reduced my Tirosint because of suppressed TSH, but maybe he's learning since he's letting me go back up.
He also instructed my to exercise because of high LDL cholesterol. I have never consistently exercised in my life so this will be a good experiment.
I'll keep you posted on muscle pain, recover time and anything I find helpful.
I have read that you should eat certain foods within 30 minutes of exercising. This is from a website that I don't know if I can post the link to. "high quality source of protein (whole food) and vegetable-type carbohydrate. An example would be a spinach salad and some organic chicken. The best post-workout meal on resistance training days is whey protein and a higher glycemic (fast released, starchy) carbohydrate (such as banana)"
However, I have tried banana hoping I have less muscle aches the next day. Hard to tell if it makes a difference since you can't be in two places at once, but my muscles still ache even having consumed a banana.
My reps have decreased….When I lift, it feels like I have a lot of lactic acid build up and it limits the contractions of my muscles much too soon and i cant "push" it one more, like i use to.
Also I notice that if I’m just focusing on one muscle group ( say just my bicepts with curls) I often feel fatigued in the rest of my body…whereas before all of this started the only area I felt fatigue ( the good kind I might add) was in the muscles I was working out. Its like my whole body or the rest of my body is working harder just to contract the muscles I want to target…if that makes any sense?
Cardio still feels good but If I over do it I feel almost hung over the next day… And I can tell you that since all of this started I had to change my routines. I use to go to the gym early on Sat and Sun and get a good hard workout in…then go home and tackle everything else ( mow the lawn, wash both cars, etc, etc…) now I can’t do all of that. I have to limit what I do after a workout because I simply feel tired and loose interest.
Also I notice that if I’m just focusing on one muscle group ( say just my bicepts with curls) I often feel fatigued in the rest of my body…whereas before all of this started the only area I felt fatigue ( the good kind I might add) was in the muscles I was working out. Its like my whole body or the rest of my body is working harder just to contract the muscles I want to target…if that makes any sense?
Cardio still feels good but If I over do it I feel almost hung over the next day… And I can tell you that since all of this started I had to change my routines. I use to go to the gym early on Sat and Sun and get a good hard workout in…then go home and tackle everything else ( mow the lawn, wash both cars, etc, etc…) now I can’t do all of that. I have to limit what I do after a workout because I simply feel tired and loose interest.
I made a pretty long post, and its not a question.
Its sharing what I have learned and I would like to hear from others on their experience and what they have tried for Hashi muscle pain.
Its sharing what I have learned and I would like to hear from others on their experience and what they have tried for Hashi muscle pain.
"I noticed a huge difference in my endurance and simply the way my muscles felt after a workout when I started to go hypo and since being on T4 meds"
- OK, can you elabotrate on this. How did your muscles feel before and after starting T4?
I really cant lift weights at the gym more than 3 days a week, from slowed muscle recovery. I do feel great for the remainder of the day after weights, its the next days after that I'm abnormally sore. Heavy stuff is now out now of the question. I do change up my routine with ouside stuff, biking, hiking, skiing in between the gym. This was worse on t4 med, better on T3/T4 combo - T3 helps.
- OK, can you elabotrate on this. How did your muscles feel before and after starting T4?
I really cant lift weights at the gym more than 3 days a week, from slowed muscle recovery. I do feel great for the remainder of the day after weights, its the next days after that I'm abnormally sore. Heavy stuff is now out now of the question. I do change up my routine with ouside stuff, biking, hiking, skiing in between the gym. This was worse on t4 med, better on T3/T4 combo - T3 helps.
This is interesting. I can tell you this that I’m pretty routine in the gym anywhere from 5-7 times a week and I noticed a huge difference in my endurance and simply the way my muscles felt after a workout when I started to go hypo and since being on T4 meds…
I would be interested in seeing if there are any amino acids that may work to alleviate the fatigue that I feel… I just simply don’t bounce back the way I use to after a hard workout…that is if I can sustain the energy to have that hard workout!
I would be interested in seeing if there are any amino acids that may work to alleviate the fatigue that I feel… I just simply don’t bounce back the way I use to after a hard workout…that is if I can sustain the energy to have that hard workout!
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