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1054798 tn?1254087680

Just started Sub

I have just begun suboxone therapy after a 4 year stint on oxycodone, I was doing 600-700 mg a day by prescription of course. Couldn=t afford a habit like that on the street. Anyway I am in my 3rd day and feel pretty good.
My question is on the Ativan my doctor prescribed me. Xanax knocks me out cold as does Valium. But I have been
taking the ativan like candy 15 1mg a day or more with little noticable effects. Could my high tolerance to oxy cross over to the ativan. Or is this just a case where this particular chemical doesn't do it for me. Any suggestions for a replacement would be appreciated. I was thinking about klonopin, Thanks   Frank


This discussion is related to Physical side effects of long term Sub use.
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Avatar universal
How did you taper on subutex, seems like it was no big deal for you, especially that you were on it for four years.  Please let us know
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
FWIW, come November of this year, it will be 4 years since I quit my abuse of opioids with the help of Suboxone (and then later Subutex).  I, like many, became addicted/dependent during treatment for pain.  I haven't had one relapse, but have been hopitalized 2x and put back on pain meds (and taken off Sub and then switched back again without incident).  I still have my original condition that started me down this road, but the Sub handles the pain without the need for anthing else.  I am on a very low dose and really don't see a reason to come off of it.  Why fix it if it ain't broke?

I no longer tell other doctors I am on Sub.  I had one incident where I did tell a surgeon I was on it.  The doctor treating me w/ Sub had talked to the surgeon to tell him I required a higher dose of pain meds, to over-ride the Sub.  The good surgeon (sic) decided to ignore my other doctor and not give the little junkie pain meds.  Instead he gave me a super-dose of Novocaine and Toradol.  Two hours out of surgery, I swelled up like a balloon, hemorrhaging due to the Toradol (#2 listed side effect).  I was whisked back into surgery, with a surgeon that listened this time to the other doctor (see my family had called and told the other doctor what had gone on).  When I woke from surgery, my new surgeon was on the phone with my other doctor.  I spent 4 days in ICU and received apologies from 3 different doctors.  Since that date, I no longer share my history with any other doctors.  But I don't suffer in pain either.  If prescribed anything that has the ability to become habit forming, I am on the phone immediately with the doctor treating me.  There have been cases where he has prescribed the pain meds for me, himself and much stronger what I would be given.by the treating doctor.

I don't recommend everyone use my experience as their yardstick, but there are still many prejudices out there, including in the medical community.  I spent the first two years of my treatment helping others find help and then felt it was time to move on and pass the torch to the others in recovery.  I am not a fan of AA,, I don't believe you will fail if you don't go to meetings......I went to a grand total of 1 AA meeting and 1 other recovery organization.  Blech!  But if it helps you, go.  But don't let ANYONE tell you you're gonna fail if you don't do it their way.  

Good luck to all and stay strong!
,
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Never took oxy, but on day 3 of subs myself. Only have one week, but so far so good...I have trouble sleeping myself.  I have no idea about the other drugs you asked about, but just wanted to say congrats on your recovery and hang in there! I just got on this forum today and it's been great!   Stay strong!  
Helpful - 0
1054798 tn?1254087680
I'm with you eagle. One day at a time. I tried sobriety once before in my early thirties,
Back then it was coke instead of opiates. unfortunatly my OCD got the best of me and
I went back to using. And I know this opiate deal will be a lot tougher than coke. But you
give me some hope that if you can do it so can I. I went to my doctor today who is a certified addictionologist/ pain specialist/intern. He switched me to klonopin 1 mg tid. maintaining suboxone at 16mg and will taper to 12mg next week. Do you think 30 to 60 days is long enough or should I get down to 4mg a day long term? Your input has been
well needed, Thanks.
Worried, You are right about these doctors overprecribing.meds. This has been by far the
toughest addiction to kick and its been perfectly legal. Us addicts are goo bs ers though
and are good at convincing these docs to keep upping are meds because of tolerance.
Even though I have arthritus and have periodic pain percocet 5s would have been all I needed. Ever since Purdue received fda permision to prescribe oxy to pain patients outside of cancer there has been a major epidemic hitting our streets. Even though I like
my doctor I do wonder about it motives for prescribing such large doses to ordinary pain patients. Have the pharmacuitcals brainwashed these guys or is it all about the mighty dollar. At any rate your comments were right on.
Helpful - 0
401095 tn?1351391770
Being in the medical community..i am sorry that a Dr would ever RX someone that much oxy per day...seems almost illegal...glad u r getting clean

valium is a much weaker benzo than ativan..so it is surprising valium knocks u out and ativan does not..xanax is a bit stronger than ativan/but not much

u need to be safe...sub can be a good tool for someone who is working their program to get clean..but is very strong and in reality another narcotic...another possible addiction if u r not careful//and a tough one to kick for many...and adding a benzo addiction to boot can be tough if u ever decide to stop all of the pills...benzos have to be carefully tapered

Is the same Dr rx-ing u ativan?  just asking cos if he is rx-ing u enuf to eat them like candy then i may think twice about this Dr's ethics...most dr's who RX people 600-700 mgs of oxy a day end up losing their license..be safe..educate urself on anything u take..keep posting
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Well Frank -  you do have your work cut out for you....... But I have to tell you right now that our habits are similar historically.  And I am into my second year of "clean time" !!  You can also do this. It isnt easy - but its doable.  You were on a healthy dose of oxy and hydro - - so much so that you are technically a little over the load that sub is designed for (thats why you crave a 90mg blast) . Good news is that you will adjust rapidly and the cravings will diminish -----  You will need to know how to deal with the cravings, though. They might surface again sometime.....  keep posting for support and with questions. You are welcome to PM me anytime that you might wish for anything - - I am usually around for a while everyday......... One Day At A Time - - - -  Thats how we do it......
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Avatar universal
Dido to the congratulations. I fall into the middle ground just the eagle has descibed. I work in the health care field and I was mislead.  Part of me knew I wasn't being too smart about it. But I had a long history of addiction plus a long history of sobriety, over 10 years, The narcotics were written for a legitmate reason. I just took the suboxone because I didn't want to go thru that narcotic withdrawal and I stayed on the suboxone longer then I should have and now its been over a year of taking the sub. Tomorrow I go to see a addictionologist to get off of the stuff. Think this thing thru. Don't stay on the sub longer then a few weeks. But make up your mind now. "Salsinator" has been helplful and has told me how he got off the sub. So make up your mind
Red
Helpful - 0
1054798 tn?1254087680
Money was never a problem since I received 300 30s every 2 weeks. My biggest problem
was all the friends trying to hit me up for my 30s.insurance paid the bills. I would have to
lie to friends and tell them I no longer get them. I did try inpatient detox more out of fear of all that I heard about withdraw than anything else. I was using the day after I got out.
I have a form of arthritus and the pain comes and goes, Right now I have no pain at all.
To be honest I am still craving a 90 mg oxy blast but towards the end of  this recent
4 year daily stint I really started to hate being enslaved to this little blue Malinkroft pill. Rarely did I get high I just maintained and kept from getting sick. It started making me  edgy and inpatient. I insulated by the way, The last three days I am starting to feel like my self again clear thinking capable of an emotion or two. I know I have a long way to go
but I am going to give it 100 % and take it one day at a time. I want to learn from people like you who have a measure of success and time of sobriety, Anything I can do to increase my odds. As much as I hate it I have to admit I'm craving a little but its nice to
know that they wouldn't get me high anyway now that I'm on the suboxone. I'm 49 and have been abusing one thing or another since I was 15 so I know I got my work cut out for me.
Thanks for your input guys.
Frank
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990521 tn?1311906308
I could not have said it better Eagle - you are 100% right on.
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Avatar universal
The duration of the sub therapy should most likely be related to the severity of the addictive issue....Have you attempted to quit the oxy's in a serious manner a couple of times and not been able to get it done or kept relapsing?  Or was the manner of your addiction placing you in danger? - were you facing possible arrest, were you selling them to obtain more, or were you looking at serious financial consequences that you ignored?   Things like that which only you may volunteer............  Some use sub for the acute withdrawal period and taper dramatically and rapidly.  Some use sub much like methadone maintenance.  Others fall in the middle. Its usually those that fall in the middle and do not taper properly that have the largest problems with tapering off sub.....or those that have been mislead by a physician that didnt listen closely enough in suboxone class ........  There is a wealth of information in the Health Pages on all aspects of suboxone - -
Helpful - 0
1054798 tn?1254087680
Thank  you both for your insights. I will speak to my physician tommorrow about Klonopin and Librium and maybe Val release. My good doctor said I should expect to be on subs for 6 months. Do you think that is a reasonable time to get my brains feel good chemicals to kick in or should i be thinking longer term like you salsinator?
Peace
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Avatar universal
If you were cross tolerant to the Ativan you should also probably have been cross tolerant to all the benzodiazepines including Valium and Xanax also......  The klonopin would most likely be a good substitute - - but you have to check with the prescribing physician about that part - -   There used to be a time release Valium of 15 or 25 milligrams called "val release' ----  I would ask about that one if I were you..... or possibly Librium would be a good choice......
Helpful - 0
990521 tn?1311906308
Hi Frank,

Congratulations on your move to suboxone, that is a step towards completely getting clean if that's your final goal.  I took suboxone for about 4 years and finally detoxed in June and feel great.

You will want to be very careful with the ativan, valium, and xanax when taking suboxone.  Read the warning label that you got with your prescription, there is a risk of serious complications or even death when benzo's are mixed in high dosages with suboxone.  15 ativan in one day is a pretty high dose and ativan and other benzo's are also very addictive.  We can't give you any advise on what medication to take over another, only your doctor can do that.  I would not say that your high tollerance to oxy has much to do with your lessened effects of ativan, I would say that you have built a tollerance to ativan.  I don't know much about klonopin, but ativan, xanax, valium, and klonopin are all from the benzo class - just be careful and talk with your doctor about the best course of action.  Take care.
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