Aa
Around People Doing Drugs....
So last night I was at a social event for work & around people doing Vicodins. I watched them ingest them.
I had no desire to partake. Zero. Feels good to be free and not feel like the only way to have energy for a party is to be high. The truth is you have sooooooooo much more stamina & energy off these pills. If somebody would have told me just 2 months ago that I could be at a party and turn down free Vicodin I would have laughed in their face! How times have changed.
I had no desire to partake. Zero. Feels good to be free and not feel like the only way to have energy for a party is to be high. The truth is you have sooooooooo much more stamina & energy off these pills. If somebody would have told me just 2 months ago that I could be at a party and turn down free Vicodin I would have laughed in their face! How times have changed.
Though your logic of why AA doesn't work for you is not sound, let's move on. What do you think would inspire you to be the best you there is? CBT is my favorite, especially in groups for some reason. I also like going to the gym regularly and meditating. Those three cover the mind, body, and heart. Rather than continuing to talk about what won't work for you and why, let's try to focus on what you think might work for you and why? Any ideas?
COMMUNITY LEADER
I dont pay attention to stats on this subject. AA/NA doesnt fail anyone. We fail. We are the ones who choose to go back out, not the program and as addicts we are always looking for something or someone to blame. It works if YOU work it, if you dont then the responsibility falls on that person.
Good luck in whatever you decide. However, I would appreciate it if you didn't denigrate 12 step programs w/ your statistics. Doesn't feel too good to have someone point out the failure rate of something myself and many others are doing in trying hard to stay clean. I'm sure you can understand that:)
I'm for whatever or however you stay clean my friend. There is more than one way to recover. I actually have only been to a few AA and a few NA meetings in six months. My aftercare consists of a therapist, and group meetings consisting of CBT/DBT, process, skills, and mindfulness stress base reduction classes. It keeps me busy during the week and teaches me coping skills in general. You seem to be against trying AA/NA and that's fine. Are you going to do any kind of aftercare? Well anyways I hope you're successful in your recovery no matter how you do it. All the best to you lookingup and keep on posting....ike
I am glad AA is working out for you! I really am.
I just do't believe in the gospel of recovery and the philosophy of telling somebody they are powerless. It seems like such a set up for failure, which seems to be the case a lot with AA. Peer-reviewed studies say the success rate of AA is only between 5 and 10 percent. While it’s praiseworthy that some do well in AA, the problem is that our society has followed AA’s lead in presuming that 12-step treatment is good for the other 90 percent of people with addictions.
I just do't believe in the gospel of recovery and the philosophy of telling somebody they are powerless. It seems like such a set up for failure, which seems to be the case a lot with AA. Peer-reviewed studies say the success rate of AA is only between 5 and 10 percent. While it’s praiseworthy that some do well in AA, the problem is that our society has followed AA’s lead in presuming that 12-step treatment is good for the other 90 percent of people with addictions.
Hey 1980. While you have done a wonderful job I only hope you've done your homework and have made yourself a plan for some type of aftercare. No one is trying to beat you up here but these guys have been around the block more than once. If I were you I would listen and take their words as gospel. I wish you luck and my best wishes....ike
Looking- I gotta echo my comrades posts. You remind me of me very early on: cancelling out something before you start. Funny I go to AA in Los Angeles and never experienced that it's only a "networking" situation. It's quite serious in the rooms. Probably 75% of the peeps don't believe in God, including myself (not sure) and that makes NO difference. You don't HAVE to agree w/ anything in the rooms. I've shared that I hate being in there at times. You can say whatever you want. It is the only thing that has kept me off vicodin. My life didn't fall apart either. But I did. I was too sick of myself to go on. I tried and tried, would get like you, 3 weeks or so clean, than slowly go back.
At least give something a try before you write it off. I'm telling you that "pink cloud" feeling will go away. And you will be left w/ life. You are still detoxing, your brain is still rebounding. You start vikes for a reason, and you will need to address that reason.
At least give something a try before you write it off. I'm telling you that "pink cloud" feeling will go away. And you will be left w/ life. You are still detoxing, your brain is still rebounding. You start vikes for a reason, and you will need to address that reason.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I am happy to hear you didnt partake in the vicodin thing but i have to tell you i have some real concerns for you. Getting off the pills doesnt mean this addiction is over. Once that pink cloud leaves the mental part comes into play. Please never forget that this addiction is sly cunning and baffling. There are other avenues for aftercare.
The more I get to know you, the more I see myself in my first years. Addiction is progressive, it picks up as if one never stopped. I was much further down that road, many years beyond, but I didn't do drugs to get high, though I did get high. I used them to work. i took less at parties and on weekends, skipped days. I really relate to your situation. I do not think you are very far down the loss of control path of addiction, but you realized you could go there and stopped, much smarter than what I did. It happens sneakily. I just encourage you not to underestimate the power of this condition. Remember, one is too many and 1000 is never enough, from now on. If you think you can do it every so often, you'd be one of the only ones who could. It seems fairly easy for you to quit this time, every time it gets harder. I also want to encourage you to think about other reasons you may have used, like to cope with something, to feel more social, whatever it may be for you. Facing those underlying reasons and finding new ways to manage life that we unconsciously and intentionally use for, helps many people. If not with addiction, it just helps make a happier person. I think everyone should work the 12 steps, who couldn't benefit from an honest, fearless, moral inventory of one's self? Forget about the drugs, just focus on being the best you there is, and whatever inspires you to do that.
thanks again for all this great info. you have an interesting story. i appreciate you sharing it.
Thanks for more details on the NA thing. AA in Los Angeles is all about networking! Sad but true! I know people that don't even drink that have done stints in AA to make connections. It's more like a click, if ya know what I mean. Good to know there are places where it has served it's purpose by helping people.
Anyway, yeah...I really am just not into the whole philosophy of AA of convincing people they are powerless and having it be so Godish, since I am an atheist and all.
Anyway, yeah...I really am just not into the whole philosophy of AA of convincing people they are powerless and having it be so Godish, since I am an atheist and all.
Hi thanks for the response.
Here is my history. I quit warm turkey with a SUPER, slow taper like over all of last year. I was down to 1 vicodin (a day with skipping a day here and there), in Nov 2014. Stayed on that until Jan. then to 1 1/2 a pill (skipping a day here and there). I quit in Feb all together. I haven't felt the high from a pill probably since around Thanksgiving last year. I don't miss it. I don't crave it. it's been about 22 days since my last 1/2 pill.
I started using here and there, then i turned into a few times a week then almost everyday for years, about 4 pills a day but i never went 7 days in a row. i used it to get work done, at work. so on the weekends i wouldn't really use it for the most part. I honestly didn't know i was addicted until i heard about a friend of a friend having to go to a rehab for vicodins last year. that's when i just decided to wean myself off. My friend's didn't know i was taking them. They are a super straight edge crowd for the most part. I didn't find the wean that hard. I feel good, I feel even and balanced.
Here is my history. I quit warm turkey with a SUPER, slow taper like over all of last year. I was down to 1 vicodin (a day with skipping a day here and there), in Nov 2014. Stayed on that until Jan. then to 1 1/2 a pill (skipping a day here and there). I quit in Feb all together. I haven't felt the high from a pill probably since around Thanksgiving last year. I don't miss it. I don't crave it. it's been about 22 days since my last 1/2 pill.
I started using here and there, then i turned into a few times a week then almost everyday for years, about 4 pills a day but i never went 7 days in a row. i used it to get work done, at work. so on the weekends i wouldn't really use it for the most part. I honestly didn't know i was addicted until i heard about a friend of a friend having to go to a rehab for vicodins last year. that's when i just decided to wean myself off. My friend's didn't know i was taking them. They are a super straight edge crowd for the most part. I didn't find the wean that hard. I feel good, I feel even and balanced.
By the way, methadone was my drug of choice. I didn't like the dysfunctional high of Oxy, norco didn't touch my pain, so I grew attached to the constant numbing feeling and relative clear thinking of methadone. It gets you high, but not dysfunctionally high at lower doses, and lasts and last, just like the energizer bunny, so do the withdrawal symptoms. IT was a year before I felt good enough, and I'm not saying good, just tolerable. I ct about 200mgs though, I tend to do everything the hard way with a stubbornness beyond this world. I know I am an odd duck, my doctor had never seen an addict with methadone as a doc. I really thought I wasn't as high as I actually was. I can see it now that my opiate goggles are retired and am still realizing more and more as the years pass.
It is all relative. Compared to heroin, cannabis doesn't get you high, methadone and subs are the same. If a person, who is not addicted to opiates, takes sub or methadone, they will get really high. Subutex is actually the fasting growing illicit drug in the world. In Scandanavia it is an epidemic. Users say that 2 msg of sub feels like a speed ball, cocaine/heroin. Methadone is like the post rush high of heroin. It is time released, so it takes about 2 hrs to fully hit the brain compared to 8-12 minutes with iv heroin. That is why so many OD on methadone, it accumulates in your system and it creeps us so slow, it is hard to tell how high one is. If mixed with alcohol or other drugs, the body stops detoxing the methadone and detoxes the alcohol, so it builds up and OD happens.
I was like you, none of my real friends use opiates. Nobody knew, accept my wife and kids. The reason I would have used at 120 days, is because of a preexisting condition that resurfaced right then, bipolar 1. I started feeling so cheated and low that I didn't care if I died, which is the only way I would ever use opiates. I noticed in the first 6 months, many people have major dilemmas to deal with, mine is particularly difficult with bipolar, but I see so many who find themselves feeling stuck and then use. It's uncanny, broken legs, divorce, losing a home, so many unexpected issues seem to arise early on. I think it is because of the life our use created takes awhile to be repaired, one those reasons get overwhelming, and devotion to sobriety feels less important. Not saying you will go there, I certainly hope not, but the worst and best days of my life have happened since I quit. Life is still hard, how I respond is really the only thing that has changed.
I was like you, none of my real friends use opiates. Nobody knew, accept my wife and kids. The reason I would have used at 120 days, is because of a preexisting condition that resurfaced right then, bipolar 1. I started feeling so cheated and low that I didn't care if I died, which is the only way I would ever use opiates. I noticed in the first 6 months, many people have major dilemmas to deal with, mine is particularly difficult with bipolar, but I see so many who find themselves feeling stuck and then use. It's uncanny, broken legs, divorce, losing a home, so many unexpected issues seem to arise early on. I think it is because of the life our use created takes awhile to be repaired, one those reasons get overwhelming, and devotion to sobriety feels less important. Not saying you will go there, I certainly hope not, but the worst and best days of my life have happened since I quit. Life is still hard, how I respond is really the only thing that has changed.
Hi there :)
Big Respect to you on coming off the Vic's & not succumbing to temptation!
So, I checked out your profile & it says you've been a member since Feb. 2015. (Did you detox this month or earlier?) The reason that I ask is that it is still Very Early Days! There's a phenomenon called 'Pink Clouding' that sometimes happens in the first several months after we come off where we're on top of the world & tend to lose sight of the fact that it wasn't really the physical addiction that kept us bound but a psychological & stress-related response.
I'm going to back my buddies above, here. I too had absolutely no desire to use opiates after detox. However, as time passed & life 'kicked-in' again, I found myself reaching for alcohol instead. I had to get really honest with myself & do the hard uncomfortable work that was required to face this down too -- to plug all the holes to make myself 'seaworthy' ;) Because, if you're an addict & you don't do the work -- get the support/aftercare or whatever, those holes will appear & continue to. While I totally agree that's it's key to remove yourself from those around you who might trigger you (particularly early on), the simple fact is that it's out there & we're going to have to face it. (Like you did at this function). Therefore, it's best to arm yourself with all the tools you can. One of the fundamentals is to understand that we always have to be on guard, even if we're feeling super-confident. We didn't become addicts in a day & it takes quite some time before we can say with any confidence that we're truly in recovery.
Congrats again & keep LookingUp & never stop growing :)
Big Respect to you on coming off the Vic's & not succumbing to temptation!
So, I checked out your profile & it says you've been a member since Feb. 2015. (Did you detox this month or earlier?) The reason that I ask is that it is still Very Early Days! There's a phenomenon called 'Pink Clouding' that sometimes happens in the first several months after we come off where we're on top of the world & tend to lose sight of the fact that it wasn't really the physical addiction that kept us bound but a psychological & stress-related response.
I'm going to back my buddies above, here. I too had absolutely no desire to use opiates after detox. However, as time passed & life 'kicked-in' again, I found myself reaching for alcohol instead. I had to get really honest with myself & do the hard uncomfortable work that was required to face this down too -- to plug all the holes to make myself 'seaworthy' ;) Because, if you're an addict & you don't do the work -- get the support/aftercare or whatever, those holes will appear & continue to. While I totally agree that's it's key to remove yourself from those around you who might trigger you (particularly early on), the simple fact is that it's out there & we're going to have to face it. (Like you did at this function). Therefore, it's best to arm yourself with all the tools you can. One of the fundamentals is to understand that we always have to be on guard, even if we're feeling super-confident. We didn't become addicts in a day & it takes quite some time before we can say with any confidence that we're truly in recovery.
Congrats again & keep LookingUp & never stop growing :)
Oh yeah, I also wanted to point out that 12 step programs do not talk about God, though members do, if that is their higher power. Some call the group their higher power, like people around here say, "I couldn't have done it without you." So, therefore, WE are more powerful than I am. The only reason I point this out is, the Big Book was written and first formed by at least half agnostic and atheist members, I'm not sure you knew that. The chapter on agnostics makes it more clear. Anyway, your response makes me think you haven't tried 12 step, or went to some weird meetings, because I have never heard that one has to believe in God or human spirit to work the program. That is important, because I sense you have disqualified something with very little knowledge of what it is.
I want to point out, I do not go to 12 step meetings anymore, they are not a good fit for my bipolar, not in this town anyway. I know that, because I went to a bunch of meetings, therapy, group counseling, addiction classes, and I found out exactly what each one had to offer. I found what gave me the most growth, it was not NA. I wanted to share that so you would know I am not a hard core, NA is the BEST. I do think it is worth a try though, I gained a great deal of philosophy, personal relations, and confidence by going to meetings. I am really glad I went, though I am not a lifer. I just want you to really meditate on if your mind is as open as you may think it is. I am pretty eccentric, I never go with the group or popular opinions, yet I was I lot more close minded than I thought I was my first year. I could be way off here, but felt it was worth mentioning. If God is what is stopping you from going, well, since God is not part of the program, that reason can be disqualified. Maybe it's something else, it might be worth some reflection.
I want to point out, I do not go to 12 step meetings anymore, they are not a good fit for my bipolar, not in this town anyway. I know that, because I went to a bunch of meetings, therapy, group counseling, addiction classes, and I found out exactly what each one had to offer. I found what gave me the most growth, it was not NA. I wanted to share that so you would know I am not a hard core, NA is the BEST. I do think it is worth a try though, I gained a great deal of philosophy, personal relations, and confidence by going to meetings. I am really glad I went, though I am not a lifer. I just want you to really meditate on if your mind is as open as you may think it is. I am pretty eccentric, I never go with the group or popular opinions, yet I was I lot more close minded than I thought I was my first year. I could be way off here, but felt it was worth mentioning. If God is what is stopping you from going, well, since God is not part of the program, that reason can be disqualified. Maybe it's something else, it might be worth some reflection.
Totally agree. Totally wasted people are super boring. I am not a big party goer. I was at a work event with a wide variety of people. My circle of close friends don't use drugs and didn't know I did-- when i did.
I have had bad days since stopping using drugs and even had to attend a funeral. my new drug is not being on drugs.
oh question about the methadone and subtext...
those are to help people stop taking drugs, no? they don't get you high do they? I was confused why you would want to take them after being clean for 120 days.
I have had bad days since stopping using drugs and even had to attend a funeral. my new drug is not being on drugs.
oh question about the methadone and subtext...
those are to help people stop taking drugs, no? they don't get you high do they? I was confused why you would want to take them after being clean for 120 days.
It was good for me to go to a party sober, it was eye opening. I also know it was good that I didn't just start going to parties all the time, as I just about lost myself at 120 days. I gave away my 3000mgs of methadone, 200+ mgs of subutex at 90 days, I had forgotten they were on my shelf. At 90 days, I had no issues getting rid of them, at 120 days, I was glad they were gone, because I would have taken something. I think gnarly is right, eventually it gets boring to watch high people anyway, so you may as well start hanging with sober people now. Sober people are way more fun, that is my experience, they just have to actually have fun, not simply get high in a mundane situation. I'm glad you felt your inner strength, just remember, you haven't always felt that way and probably won't feel that way the rest of your life. One thing I know about myself, the way I feel changes drastically, even though what I know is right and want do not. IF you had a bad day, something really bad happened, then you where offered vicodine, do you think it would be as easy? I found this out with alcohol. I am not addicted to alcohol, but I realized I was playing Russian Roulette. If I drink on a good day it's fine, on a bad day it's not, so I stopped testing myself, to see if I can handle it. I hope you do the same thing. I mean, some people are thieves by nature, maybe they are trying to stop, but if I leave a tempting object out for a thief to be tempted, then I am part of the problem. I see that with your friends you partied with, they are part of the problem.
Thanks for the reply. These really were not my playmates, I was at a work function. I have lots of friends that don't use drugs! Nobody in my close circle even knew I was a daily user of the Vicodins. Anyway, I work in the entertainment industry...there will always be drugs around me. I mean not like right in front of me but around.
As far as NA I am super happy for you that you have those meetings and it works for you. But for me, I just don't believe in God and can't honestly turn my life over to something that I don't think exists. At the center of AA is the idea that we have a spiritual defect that must be addressed in addition to not drinking or using drugs, otherwise it won't work. I don't think humans have spirits and I don't think if we did there are binary types of them - broken or not broken. In no way am I being judgmental of the people that this program works for. More power to them!
As far as NA I am super happy for you that you have those meetings and it works for you. But for me, I just don't believe in God and can't honestly turn my life over to something that I don't think exists. At the center of AA is the idea that we have a spiritual defect that must be addressed in addition to not drinking or using drugs, otherwise it won't work. I don't think humans have spirits and I don't think if we did there are binary types of them - broken or not broken. In no way am I being judgmental of the people that this program works for. More power to them!
Hi....I know it is hard to do but you need to change your playmats even if it includes not going to partys where people are using right now you may be strong but life on lifes terms can be hard and even after over 5yr clean I do not go around pills EVER....dont kid yourself the desire will come to to you to use it is what you do with that desire that counts and if your around pills it is all to ez to use...long after you stop the pills the addict in your head is alive and well aftercare is a critical part of recovery for me N/A does the trick I highly recamamend you get to some meetings it is the only progam that I know of that will actually take away the very desire to use google N/A meetings in your aera............Gnarly
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