Maybe controversial, but needs perspective

[JephWyte]

Ok this is one of many suboxone related threads you will see on this site. I have a personal opinion on suboxone and methadone (maintence meds) due to my years on and off them between aactive runs of heroin. Whether or not they work is up for debate and really based off individual experience, BUT.. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the notion that it's considered being "clean". I never considered myself clean while on suboxone or methadone becuase once 12-24 hours went by I would be sick and NEED more even if I had to rob, hurt somebody or shoot dope again. I would see some people on this site say "It's great to be clean and on suboxone now" (paraphrasing of course) and in actuality, it's awesome if it's helping you restore some order in your life, it didn't for me but I know many people who it did help and some of them managed to come off from there and have substantial clean/sober time now. I bring this all up because I had an experience lately that I needed to pray and meditate on. I have gone through my steps and began sponsoring other people. I took in a sponsee last week and gave him an assignment to read and prepare for step 1. When he came in we discussed his back story and he told me he had 3 months... thanks to suboxone. I felt bad but I couldn't ethically keep him as a sponsee. I got support from %99 of people I know in recovery but have received some criticism as well. I guess the reason I get so jaded about it is because I did the suboxone route, and it held me over for a while, but the REAL work began when I had to stop EVERYTHING and make the honest effort to get my life back and be truly sober. I don't want to come off as cynical and don't intend to undermine anybodys success so far with those meds, I'm just trying to make sense out of where people are coming from sometimes and didn't know if anyone here with long term recovery and involvement with the fellowship has dealt with anything similar in sponsor/sponsee relationships.

[killerzoey]

http://www.aa.org/pdf/products/p-11_aamembersMedDrug.pdf

[killerzoey]

http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/339

[Dane74]

ok, well here is my 2 sense not that it matters but heck i will just chime in on this.  When i was away for 30 days in rehab, and the ONLY way you earn privileges to leave campus supervised, was ZERO benzo ZERO opiate, meaning no drugs, and once you detoxed and then tapered off the subs then you earned the privileges to leave the grounds and such. (supervised of course) So in my opinion, taking sub/meth is still taking an opiate.  NOW I'm not against those drugs as i do believe they help certain people but i do not consider it completely clean and neither did the rehab i attended did.  We are all addicts at different levels and different drugs, and if taking sub or meth to help someone get better then more power to it, i believe in it, but its needs to be short term and under a doctors care, who actually gives a rip and not after the money.  Ok, so in my opinion, taking methadone or sub to maintain and help for longer than 4 weeks is just waste, because now good luck getting off that crap, its like trading one drug for another.  BUT, when you have a person that is so BAD and needs all the help they can get taking sub or meth might be good but for a SHORT term only and only short term, this is not to be taking for months. Sub and meth, has its pros and i believe that, but in my opinion, being on either one is not clean, because in all honesty it is an opiate...  

[Miss_Creative]

Good questions Barb :)

[BarbRTR]

This post is very sad. I'm glad the OP did what he felt was right for his own sobriety, not being the sponser.

That said, I would love to find this kid, and give them a big hug. I will confess to knowing nothing.. Close to 7 weeks clean, didn't use subs. All I know about them is reading how it saved lives here. The person is committed to getting clean, cuts old habits, attends meetings or counseling, etc.
But this poor kid seems stuck in no mans land. Not with the old habits and friends anymore, but not allowed to work steps.

I thank you for this post, it reminds me to research the philosophy before going, not to wait and learn at meetings what's expected.

I wonder, is it just timing? Was anything mentioned about AD's being allowed when AA first begun, or was this added later, when AD's came more into play? They are in fact mood altering. I know someone who freaks when their Cymbalta is low. So, since Subs are really in the last ten years or so come into play as a way to get chronic relapses clean.. ( not the ones who stay on forever) has it not been given a different look?

What about people on anxiety meds, if they never abused those? Are they not clean? I'm truly asking, as I have no clue now. Yes, I will certainly research much much more before attending.

I hate posts or texts, as you can't tell the persons feelings well, and it may come off sounding differently than it was meant.

My post, is from a person totally ignorant of the ways of AA. Had planned to start when I got out of the hospital.

I think, to a newbie like me, this post was enlightening, as I would have walked in blindly. I will for sure research the beliefs first.

Hope everyone enjoys the rest of the weekend, and has a great week.

[Miss_Creative]

Hey Jeph - Look at what you started... GOOD ONE! DOH! (I'm kidding) I am not familiar in the least about sponsorships, so can't speak to that. But I see where you are coming from on the word "clean." It's tricky. People properly using Suboxone are "clean" from the drug they were abusing, which is fantastic... but they are not truly done with using opiates. I went Cold Turkey from Suboxone (which I was on for only 3 weeks!) about a month ago and it was awful, awful, awful. Having had that experience, I personally think one should wait to consider themselves "100% clean" until after they have tapered off the Subs... While they are still on them, maybe it makes more sense for people to describe themselves as "clean from their drug of choice" - which is something they should be really proud of! I would hate for folks to think just because they are on Subs, it's easy breezy from here on out... Unless they plan to be on them for the rest of their lives, there is yet another hump to get over. That said, I've never tapered from Suboxone, so I don't know how difficult that process is. Maybe I'm wrong and it is easy breezy to get off them at a slow taper. The only thing I have to go off of is my own experience :)