Suboxone how hard is it to come off of .

[avisg]

I have seen any in the last week considering suboxone .We have many that are still taking it .I think it would really helpful for  many posters trying to research whether it a good chioce for them to hear what people that are now off it have to say .
Did you take it short term or long term? How long if at all did you have WD going off it?.If you had to do it all over would you make the same choice?

[Lynn79]

   My story is very strange, and I'll keep it as short as I can (although my post exceeded the character limit, so it will be a two-parter). I was a pothead. I didn't even like pills. In college, I had experimented with everything here and there, such as a few months on Ecstasy, a few months of trying cocaine, shrooms and acid here and there, marijuana, and a Perc here and there, given to me by the dishwasher at Applebee's to help us work faster. It felt good but it wasn't my thing.  I was a daily weed smoker for about 4 years. I smoked every day through college, and the year after  I didn't know at the time, but this was self-medicating a whole lot of issues, because as things happened in my life I was already feeling good so I didn't need to deal with them.
   Then my parents decided to sell the family home I grew up in, I was accepted as an instructor at a prestigious tennis camp in Maine, and I had an application in to the Master's program at Florida State. A lot of life changes were on the horizon, but I was excited about them. About three weeks before I was set to leave for Maine, I decided to stop smoking pot so I could get in shape (I know... three weeks was NOT enough time, but I was cocky then). THE VERY NEXT DAY, my life changed and has not been right since. I woke up with this horrible feeling that I couldn't explain to anyone. I felt wierd all over my body and I felt like I had to concentrate on my breathing. Have you ever had that? Where you're focused on your breathing? Because then you know that once you start you can't stop. Then the panic attacks came and I took myself to the ER. They ran all kinds of tests, including an EKG, but everything was normal. At one point, I was PRAYING it was hyperthyroidism, because something like that is treatable. I had never been an anxious person, so I didn't chalk it up to anything mental at all. In fact, I had ran out of marijuana many times in the past, and had gone without it for weeks at a time before, and I felt fine.
   Friends were making fun of me because "marijuana isn't addictive." Bullsh*t. It had a psychological hold on me, and now that I had it in my head that I didn't want to do it anymore, my body was reacting negatively. Of course, I didn't know any of this at the time, this is all hindsight. So I spent 4 months in complete agony. I couldn't go out with friends, because I was afraid of having a panic attack or some other breathing problem. I couldn't sleep. I was focused on every single body feeling that I had. I would lay in bed, propped up because it was found that I had Acid Reflux and I was hoping that this was what was wrong with me. I would finally drift off to sleep, then wake myself up with a panic attack. I woke up every morning by 7am, and all I could do was go on the computer to the Anxiety Forum that I found back then.
   I was in hell, and I couldn't understand why this was happening to me. The worst part was that it was impossible to explain to anyone, and when I tried people just said, "oh you're probably just tired, or stressed." Needless to say, I cancelled tennis camp because there was no way I could have functioned there. I was unemployed so I had my days free to just pine over how I was feeling. Some days I thought that if someone had told me I would feel that way forever, I would surely kill myself. At least I had hope.
   So I started taking Xanax here and there, but all that did was make me tired, and I tried Lexapro but that didn't help either. I dealt with it for 3 years. I didn't have any kind of normal life.
   Then I had dental surgery, and was prescribed Vicodin. This was the first time since being "afflicted" with this horrible ailment that I would be taking a painkiller. It IMMEDIATELY made me feel normal. I felt like I had years ago, before even smoking weed. The fact that Vicodin made my mind and body feel normal again, proved to me that my affliction was drug related. If there were any other cause, then taking a drug like that wouldn't help, right? So now that I had found what I thought was the perfect medication for my illness, I took one every day. Soon I got used to feeling back to normal. At one time, I was actually angry that I had tried Xanax and Lexapro, because here was this miracle drug. And that's how my addiction began.
   After a year, I was up to 3 10mg pills every morning, and 3 at night before bed. I had stolen a stack of scripts from my dentist's office, and perfected her signature, so the flow of pills was not a problem. Then my girlfriend of 4 years found them, and I was done. She threatened to call the dentist, and the pharmacy, if I didn't quit. She also made me flush everything I had, which I did. She didn't know that I had some scripts left in the trunk of my car, but I went three days without the pills. I was a waitress then and working during withdrawal was pure h*ll. My girlfriend took the pills away on Friday. Monday morning I was at Walgreens filling a new script.

[botchedup]

It's not the mgs only, that matter to a doc&patient choosing sub.  It's also the reactions physically, emotionally, and behaviorally that the patient has to his or her meds.  I have used sub for breaks between surgeries at what seem to be considered fairly low doses.  i was still dependent and addicted, and no way near able to take a month or two or three to detox and w/d.  Everybody's different yes, and no one solution will fit all.  I guess my point is, Please don't go chewing up 30 more mgs a day because you feel like your "addiction isn't big enough to use Sub."   Eventually it will be.  We have to take into account everything...not just how many mgs.

[liscamdave]

Good point...they should NOT have put him on sub for that little an amount.

[botchedup]

I've always been a bit leary about antidepressants as a whole.  However, I think you've got it right about post w/d depression.  There seems to be much confusion out there regarding depression whether personality types are more suceptible etc.   There's not enough info out there about straight up "chemical depression".  When your body is depleted for chemical reasons rather than emotional.  I've had two experiences with celexa--one horrible one good.  The first was celexa and tramadol--prescribed by a doctor that resulted in a very scary experience/hospitalization.  The other is when w/d ing from Subutex.  My doctor explained to me the chemistry of w/d, serotonin depletion, and how to use celexa as a TOOL to boost levels in order to achieve regeneration and balance.  I took the celexa---with nothing else but .05 clonidine at 8pm.  20mg celexa in the AM, with the UNDERSTANDING that I would give it 2 wks to see how i felt, and 4 months total of use.  Right at the two week mark, maybe even a few days before, I felt the lifting.  After 3 months I had energy, felt clear headed,and began the last month taper.  Had no w/d's and have been "emotionally balanced" ever since.  that was 2005.  the only time I ever felt like the malaise was returning was when I had to take those damn percocet for a fairly painful procedure.  But even then, I never felt the urge to overtake, or "get some energy".  In fact, In the absence of physical pain, the familiar peak and valley was easily felt but this time didn't "trigger" me.  I know some are sensitive to "supportive meds" but I find that to be more of an emotional judgement rather than good science.  Same w/subs, have a plan, a time frame, and support and it will be a softer landing.  

[liscamdave]

Great Post......well said and EXACTLY to the point....

Hope you are well honey..

Lisa

[flmagi]

I'm still on the Suboxone. It's been 8 months now and I flip between 4 -6 mgs per day. And like Liscamdave said..I feel normal, not high.  I don't get the high energy from it, maybe a little in the first few months.  I should be trying to taper from it, but I have not given any real attempts at it. I think I fear the depression I'll probably experience more than the withdrawal symptoms. I'm also on Cymbalta for depression, which I have been tapering off of.  I'm going to switch to Zoloft soon.
Anyway... Would I do the Sub again?   Yes, I think I would, of course I haven't gone thru the withdrawals yet.  And if I could do it over, I would have at least gotten down to a much lower dose in the first month or so. I have a lot more tapering to do than Mary, who did get way down on her dose early on.
Would I recommend it?  I have 2 versions of criteria for recommendation.
1.  If you have tried over and over again to get clean, really tried, only to relapse again and again, and your addict behavior is putting your life or your families welfare in serious jeopardy, legally, physically, and financially. You truly believe you have run out of options.
2. Circumstances beyond your control do not allow you the luxury of the down time needed to go thru the worst part of withdrawals and would only need to use it for a week or two. And would not have any major problems dealing with the left over withdrawals after that.
I have certainly come to terms with the fact I'm going to be in for a pretty ruff time when I decide it's time to come off the Sub. I've accepted that.
My biggest regret, (other than getting addicted in the first place) is the last time I got clean. I was clean for 3 months and feeling great except for depression. I tried to wait it out, hoping it would go away. My depression got extremely severe and caused me to relapse. Had I gotten on some anti-depressant before I let it get so bad, I honestly think I would not have relapsed and I wouldn't be on Sub now.
I'm not happy that I'm on Sub...still on it. But this is where I'm at.
I get very concerned when I hear people asking about the depression after the withdrawals. My advise is to get to the doctor and get on an anti-depressant. Even if it's just for a short while. Much better than relapsing or ending up on Sub. Every effort must be exhausted before going the Sub route.