Aa
Problem Drinking and Drugs, Alcohilsm
[Big Q ... sorry :-)]
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
well, I am not committed to quit smoking now, so it stays for me but I am committed to NOT using booze n ny kind of drugs for sure ... my recovery so far has never lasted long, the last time I slipped was with an NA member itself, he had a lot of money to burn that day and we burnt it the only way we knew, drinking till we are talking complete nonsense then after a while we 'relaxed' with drugs, the cycle then continued 4 days. So it turns out the money it burnt us. Now, I am clean again, hope that this time my recovery lasts long enuf for me to be able to give up the smaller vices I have as well ...
COMMUNITY LEADER
"I have a stomach of a pregnant lady cuz of all the drinking and codeine...."Most of them have gone to xtremes that i haven't...yet..."is not ur distended stomach an xtreme?maybe u go to NA and compare urself out of room....well i haven't done THIS yet...i'm not as bad as them....YET...yet awaits for u!don't wait for the yet to come.....also like what the Buddhist guy said about smaller addictions....alcoholics/addicts have much to give up at first.....if the smoking is to go the person has 2 WANT to give that up...and in time that will come is the person is committed to stopping....note the word committed!
and mama I can relate to that, the members I find in NA are coming from the streets lost everything, been to jail, some have been to jails more than once and I am there because I about think codeine and alcohol might be doing to my liver. They don't have codeine pills here, so the only source is Codeine Cough syrups in which they put a lot-n-lot of sugar to mask the bitter taste of codeine, now I have a stomach like that of a pregnant lady because of all the drinking and codeine which I have been doing everyday since about a year now, I sweat a lot whenever I am out and I feel so lethargic.
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
If I look back at own experience and think about whether I can control the use of any substance be it alcohol or drugs of any kind, I know immediately that I can not. It's only in your weaker moments in which you are very very tempted to use do you buy your own addicted mind's arguments such as
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
There is a forum for discussing smoking addiction and a forum for discussing other substance abuse. I doubt you're interesting in checking either out, but I'm putting them up anyway. :P Maybe for the more interested people who are really curious to help themselves than the trolls who like to get reaction.
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
there is no doubt that things like tobacco use and overeating are harmful and costly, but for this alcoholic, the distinction between harmful and lethal had become clear. if things haven't gotten bad enough yet, the suggestion i always hear is to go do some more drinking and/or using until i've had enough. i have told others the same thing and it's hard to do because some people don't make it back to try sobriety again. one does not have to be a stereotypical end stage drunk to die out there. this may sound cruel, but i know today that it's an expression of "tough love." for there to be a reasonable expectation of success, most alcoholics/addicts have to be willing to go to any length to achieve and maintain sobriety. and this involves doing things that we are afraid of. to anyone who is questioning their situation and what their alternatives may be, do yourself a favor and read the first 164 pages of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" with an open mind.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
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