Anxiety, Sleep, Etc

[jkid80]

I have been suffering from insomnia for about a year. I caved when it started and didnt treat the source (relationship based with my wife, with new baby, etc)... I bandaged it and went for OTC aids.

They stopped working. Went to an RX (something i promised i would never do).  Doc put me on Amitryptilyne

WOrked great at first... and helped me sleep through night.

THen i needed the "hit" to fall asleep. so it stopped working.

Then i went to ambien... bad move... Became tolerant and it would only give me 3-4 hours per night. I became obsessed about breaking the pill in half, cutting it down, etc...

All along i tried natural routes... Kenisiology, herbology, CBT (DR JACOBS ONLINE)...

Nothing helped

I became so anxious and depressed about my sleep.

Doc put me on Celexa. I was in denial that i was depressed. Just thought if i could sleep i would be fine. Also the side effect of all SSRI is insomnia so i figured that wasnt my problem...

Never really gave it a fair shot, got up to 40 mgs and started cutting it down to get off it cause it wasnt helping me fall asleep or stay asleep. Also it affected me with bad side effects: constipation, etc...

Then he gave me small doze Zyprexa for racing thoughts. Worked like a dream the first couple nights, but i felt like a zombie the next day. Became obsessed with getting off of it. It destroyed my digestion.

Swithced to Seroquel - shorter half life, but would still stop my mind.

Worked for a couple days, then stopped....

Went to a top herbologist - diagnosed me as very low seratonin. Put me on 5HTP and Tryptophan, etc...
But they havent been working with anxiety or sleep to much either...



So i finally did what i promised i wouldnt ever do... Benzo. Decided on Klonopin. WOrked the first couple nights, kind of... but still only 5-6 hours and didnt feel like good sleep at all.... Took 1 MG / night


Through all this i realize the best sleep i had on any meds was anitryplyline. But the side effects of it was killer - soar throat, runny nose, it was like a constant cold (which is why i tried reducing it in the first place, and it stopped working).

So i found Trazodone... Tried it 2 nights ago first time, 50 MG... slept the best ive slept in months, even had a dream!!

Thought i was cured. Then last night i had a major panic attach. Realized at 2AM that it was probably the Klonopin wearing off (it has a long half life, so it was probably in my system through the night before).

Took an ambien and got 3 hours of sleep... did not take another klonopin  last night....

I am wondering if this withdrawal will last into this upcoming night?

Am wondering if I am severely depressed/low seratonin and that I need a SSRI??

I try to talk to my Doc, but I am so obsessed about getting on a good sleep pattern and doing better that I cant see him enough.  

Just wondering if anybody can relate, and if they think i should take Klonopin withthe Trazadone and wean off the Klonopin?

I'll do anything to have a good night.

Side note: the klonopin makes me dull and zombie like the next day too...

Any thoughts would be great.

I am sick of researching and obsessing over this. Just want to stop being anxious and want to sleep good. But cant stop thinking about how i need to sleep and then obsessing over it all day the next day.

Cant see a psych cause i dont have insurance. Am starting some family counseling to help with my relationship with my wife. This has all had a negative effect on our marriage. Also some financial problems are contributing highly.

[jkid80]

OK One last question....

When I went to a D.C. Kenisiologist last year, around the fall time when I was pursuing to get off of the meds I was on (which werent really working)...

The big "Find" was my body was unable to metabolize Tyramine. This is whats in cheese, yogurt, bananas, etc...  (Tyramine I think is converted to Dopamine, which in high levels at night causes racing thoughts??)

I think at the time the Zyprexa really screwed up my digestion worse then anything I have ever taken... And maybe it was true, and maybe this was the cause??...

But regardless, now I am obsessed about avoiding everything I really like to eat!!! Bananas, Pizza, etc... (note these things are actually good sources of tryptophan i believe!)...

I have began eating them again, but still always wondering... I wish I never wouldve gone to him or atleast got that diagnosis. It just makes things harder.

But has anybody heard of this? My doctor has never heard of it. The herbologist has never heard of it.

Just wondering your guys thoughts.

[jkid80]

Thanks for the awesome responses! It is great to have some support....

Veggiemom: just 1.5 weeks on klonopin. I called two pharmacists and they both said that isnt long enough to have that kind of withdrawal... Have tried unisom, but not in addition to melatonin.

Julie: I have not researched Propanolol... I just read about it on Wiki... How does it compare for panics/racing heart compared to Xanax, Klonopin or Tamazapn?? Also, I see it works on norephedrine (which I dont really understand)... Does anybody know what Trazodone does with Norephedrine? (is it similiar or the opposite?).

Paxiled: The herbologist basically diagnosed me because of racing thoughts, major obsessive thoughts, cant live in the moment, life depends on sleep, poor sleep, inability to fall asleep. These are all signs, she says, of low serotonin. And she does the muscle testing to see what my body would benefit from, and it showed a need for L-Tryptophan and also 5-HTP.

I was on the 5HTP + Tryptophan combo for 3 weeks. Then when my doc put me on Trazodone I read major interactions between them, so I quit the 5HTP and Tryptophan cold turkey...

NOW THAT I realize this, THIS may have been the cause of my panicing?? Depleted seratonin from quiting these things??

I was to the point where I was atleast falling asleep (first with Seroquel and my 5HTP/Tryp and then with Klonopin and 5HTP/Tryp) but unable to stay asleep and waking up in panic/anxiety...

Also yes she had me on 2 3mg tabs of timed release melatonin, which i stopped when I started the klonopin. I was also put on HOPS but I read it is an interaction with Trazadone so i have stopped it.... Also over the past year I have tried every homeopathic/valerian combo I could research (I research alot on IHERB). I even tried MRM Relax All with Phenibut... It was amazing the first 2 nights, then effectiveness dropped. And from what I've read about Phenibut addiction, its almost as bad as Benzos...

Regarding the therapist: Due to marriage problems (brought on alot due to my sleep problems) we are going to counseling, and I will be working on the stress via this therapist... Starting this thursday.


MEANTIME: Last night was slightly better then the previous night. The pharmacist said I could take up to an extra 75mg trazodone IF the first 50 mg didnt work...
So I started my regimen at 9:30, took the 50MG. Became sluggish and fatigued, but not sleepy. At 10:30 I took the other 75. STILL NO SLEEPY FEELING but very tired, and had racing heart/anxiety!!

So finally I have some Rozerem from the past. I took 1 of them, plus .25 Klonopin at 11:30. Fell asleep around midnight... Woke up way to early, at 5:30.

Still 5.5 hours is better then 3 and manageable...


SO HERES MY QUESTION: I need to go back to herbologist and get tested with the Tryptophan again. I see online that Trazadone in small doses is often used in conjunction with SSRI's when patient cant sleep. But I see hardly no supporting evidence of using 5HTP, l-Tryptophan, or St Johns Wort when using Trazadone... I feel like I probably still need some extra Seratonin, based on my inability to get the sleepy feeling, still not sleeping well, and so much anxiety and obsessive thoughts....

Do you think its OK to add a little bit of Tryptophan, to give the Trazadone a boost? Maybe take 500mg in the middle of the day?  Could this be why Trazadone is not giving me the sleepy feeling, just a drowsy feeling?


Thanks again for the responses

[Paxiled]

Kind of curious as to how an herbalist diagnosed you with low serotonin.  Did he or she do some kind of sophisticated tests on you over a period of time, since everyone has fluctuations in bodily processes through the day?  Or did the person just guess.  Kind of curious, since to my knowledge nobody's ever found any widespread differing amounts of serotonin in people suffering from anxiety or depression than in anyone else.  I think it's more the efficiency of use that occurs in most people, but it's all very theoretical.  Just curious here.  Did the herbalist put you on 5-HTP for a length of time?  Natural remedies tend to take a while before you notice an effect, especially one that affects production of neurotransmitters.  And did he or she recommend the concomitant use of sleep remedies such as melatonin, valerian combinations, or homeopathic remedies?  And finally, have you seen a therapist to try and work out why you're responding to stress in this way or are you just trying medication?  

[Julie359]

I don't know if this would work for you but Propanalol is a good drug for calming down the nervous system and so can aid greatly in sleep.  This drug is sometimes called Inderal and is a beta-blocker which slows down the heart and circulation.  I have found since taking this drug i have slept soundly and my GAD has calmed greatly.  I take 40mg x 2 times daily, one when wake up and 1 before bed......

It could help and isn't addictive like other med's...... do hope you find a drug or method that works for you.

[veggiemom1436]

How long have you been on the Klonopin?  I was on Klonopin for maybe 2 months and ran out (unintentionally) and went into severe withdrawal within a week.  I ended up in the ER and didn't sleep or eat for days.  If you've been on it longer than a couple weeks, I'd say that you are going to have a withdrawal effect. Now I've been on it for close to a year and regret the decision to EVER go on it.  If you are having withdrawals, you need to go back on and taper down.  You can find a taper schedule online or maybe go through your MD.  I haven't even attempted it yet...

I understand what insomnia is like due to anxiety.  I can't sleep without meds, but I still wake up early and in panic mode.  Unisom + melatonin works for me.  Good luck finding something.