Using Valium to taper off of Klonopin.

[bpchris]

I have been on 1.5 msg (.5 mgs, 3x a day) for about two years now. I talked to my doctor and decided that it was time to come off of this medication. I was diagnosed with BP2 with GAD but have made a lot of lifestyle changes and neither of us feel the Klonopin is necessary. It really makes me fuzzy and that's not good; I am a high school math teacher.

Anyway. I have managed to cut down to 1.0mgs (.5mg 2x per day) over the past few months. I have been reducing by .125mgs every month or so. I don't have a real set tapering schedule because I have to wait for breaks in school; the withdrawals are difficult to deal with while I'm teaching. I did alright during the first few reductions; I was irritable for a few days but bounced back pretty quick. However, I cut back again (.125mgs) about a week and a half ago and it has been a really rough road. I'm pretty good at dealing with medication withdrawals but this has been gnarly. I've been really irritable and crawling the walls.

I know that many folks taper off using equivalent doses of Valium; it's a little more potent but it has a longer half life. It seems like it's the standard protocol for most docs and I am thinking about bringing it up. However, I want some "real world" advice on it before hand; I am very med sensitive (i.e. cutting by a QUARTER of a pill and paying the price) and don't want to walk into a bad situation.

Have any of you used Valium to taper off? Did it help?

[bpchris]

Yes, BP stands for Bipolar Disorder. The "2" means that I cycle faster than someone with "standard BP disorder". I've never cycled with the seasons; it doesn't really have a pattern. And, I used to have mixed episodes; mania and depression rolled into one.  

My younger brother ran through all of the ADs until he found Cymbalta and it's worked wonders for him. My girlfriend has MS and she deals with nerve flares similar to fibromyalgia; I feel so bad for her when she gets lit up. She is currently on Cymbalta as well; it works well for her depression, GAD and nerve pain. But, I imagine you have already tried that medication as it's approved for all of the medical issues you deal with.  

I didn't get proper treatment until I found a psychiatrist. I went through several docs and PAs and it was horrendous. I was consistently misdiagnosed and the Celexa I was placed on exacerbated my BP issues.

[Sissypants]

I dont know what BP2 is unless its bi-polar....but I didnt know there was a 2 with it if thats what it is.....I also been diagnosed with GAD....I also have fibromyalgia also and that is what causes a lot of pain and fatigue in my body....you feel like you have the flu everyday....its a new hurt everyday it seems and then on top of that the anxiety and depression.....I was iin such bad shape today i called my PA and she wanted to see me immediately....she put me on paxil and I didnt want that at all cause I have tried it twice and it makes me more anxious but she said we have got to get it under control and she increased my klonipin to .5mg 3 times daily....I will be pretty doped for a while so if you believe in prayer please say one for me that the paxil will work this time....she is also working with my insurance to see if they will approve Saleva....I am scared of that for some reason as I am all drugs I think so I hope the paxil will work this time....I just want a life again....I havent been to any stores or movies or restaurants for holidays with my family in over 5 years because of this...the only way I made it to her office today is because she is just around the corner from me.....I was so dizzy while I was in there talking with her that I thought i would pass out....I think alot of mine is just severe anxiety and its bad....I miss my family and friends and just want a little bit of life again...I pray this paxil will work this time....

I am with you on the part that if I need it and you need it so what....others take meds for whatever they need it for so why do we need to feel bad about it.....its not our fault ...we didnt ask for this to happen....things just do happen and we have to do whats best for us to cope and get by in this world....I hope you will be able to get off of it if that is what you want but if you cant do it please dont beat yourself up over it ok.....you will be the same wonderful person on it as you are without it....maybe even better....you will go on and so will I.....have a good evening...

[bpchris]

No, I have never really had physical symptoms of anxiety other than a jump in heart rate and blood pressure. I have had issues with GAD but it's the mixed episodes caused by BP2 disorder that landed me on the benzos. But, that is because I was misdiagnosed; the docs thought I was just dealing with severe depression and GAD. They thought the mixed episodes and agitated mania caused by anxiety issues. It's a long story so I'll abbreviate it; I was diagnosed with depression/GAD about a decade ago but it 'morphed' into BP2 disorder two years ago.

I'm sorry that you're having such a difficult time with anxiety at this point. I know that it's not an easy thing to deal with. But, something to remember; you may need Klonopin to keep you level and there's nothing wrong with that. It's definitely not the ideal situation by any means but you may need it to live a functional, happy life. I have resigned myself to the fact that I may find out that I need it once I get off. I hate it, but it is what it is.

[Sissypants]

I wish right now i could taper off but I am having anxiety so bad that I am going to call or go to the dr for them to increase my klonipiin....I take .25mg 3 times a day and this has been for 5 years....it hasnt been workiing for quite a while but I just hated so BAD to increase it cause I know how hard it is to come off of but I cant live my life at all if i dont either increase it or try something else....I feel so shaky every day like I am falling apart on the inside....it feels like I am just going MAD and I hate it....I cried all day yesterday because of it so my brother told me I need to increase it so I will have to ask the dr about it.....the only thing with increasing it is my body will eventuallly get use to that then what....klonipin only goes up to 2mg and I dont think drs let you have that more than twice a day....and I always fear the dr will get to a point and take me off of it and that scares me to death....I am scared of drugs and I am scared of not having it also....ANXIETY is such a horrible thing to live with but I wish I understood it more and how to handle it without drugs but I havent found that yet.....I hope you do ok....just keep trying really slow and maybe you will one day conquer it...I pray that for myself to one day but for now I have to have it if I want to function in this world again....I have become almost homebound...scared to go anywhere anymore....DO you ever get really dizzy....I stay so dizzy all the time and thats what scares me and makes my anxiety worse and my neck and back of my head are painful all the time with headaches too....well I complained enough...I will keep you in my prayers and hope all willl turn out great for you....

[bpchris]

Sissypants,

I have found that I need to stick with dosing three times per day as much as I can with my taper. I can't cut one dose out completely until I am down to a very low dosage; chip away at each dose.

[bpchris]

Thanks for the responses; I have a lot to think about. I have always heard that the last milligram is a pain in the butt but I didn't think it would be that bad as I have never gone over 1.5mgs.

A big part of the problem is cutting the pills; I went back to a bi-daily dosing schedule because taking a whole .5mg pill twice a day has kept me stable; cutting them has not. That was another reason was I was thinking about Valium; they come in 2mg, 7mg and 10mg pills. I would never have to cut a pill. I would just drop my 2mgs of Valium at a time.

[Sissypants]

I know the feeling of tapering off of klonipin....I have been on it for 5 years now at a small dose and it doesnt work anymore but I dont want to increase it either cause it is so addictive and hard to get off of.....I take .25mg 3times a day....at the beginning of the year I wanted to try to taper off of one of my doses to see if I would feel better and not be so sleepy and have the vice-grip band feeling around my head....so I started  my 4o'clock dose tapering it down to 0.125mg for a month and then every other day for a month and I finally quit....it was hard and I felt terrible but I got thru it......OR SO I THOUGHT....after about 2 weeks of being off just that one dose I was shaking so bad inside and felt like I was constantly in a panic attack....it wouldnt let up....I called my brother and he said you need to get back on your dose again and so I did....after about the 3rd time of getting back on it I started feeling better.....but after about 2 weeks I am back to having all the panic feelings again.....

I  hated to start back on it but when you feel like that you will do anything to make it stop....I guess I will be on klonipin forever....and since I cant tolerate the anti-depressants I am sure I am giongn to have to increase my klonipin as bad as I hate to....I once was on a website for klonipin and it said it was worse than getting off herion....I have never been on herion before but that alone let me know it has a powerful blow to your system....

I wish I could just say hang it there and it will get better and I hope it does but benzo's are not as easy to ween off of as anti-depressants are....you need to work very close with your dr on this in case you need help....I am not sure dr's even know how powerful they are cause my dr once took me off klonipin cold turkey and I almost ended up in a pych ward at the hospital....so please be careful and do this under a dr. supervision....I wish you the best and I hope you get thru this and off of it....I will try again one day but for now I just leave it alone cause its all I got to take and I have anxiety so bad I need something....

Best wishes
Sissypants

[RubyWitch]

Tapering off any benzo is difficult as you're finding out. And while it's not totally understood, getting off that final 1mg is the "make or break" mark and it's normally recommended that your taper be slowed down at this point.
Valium is not more "potent" than Klonopin and has virtually no affinity for panic disorders. It is considered a mild anti-anxiety medication that is very seldom dosed on a daily basis.
The Ashton Method was very popular for awhile until it was accepted that it essentially didn't work...........and here I am speaking about panic disorder as opposed to anxiety issues. I talked my Psychiatric Medication Manager into letting me try withdrawing from Xanax with Valium. It was a joke and not a funny one at all. I went through hell for about 4 weeks, went back to my PMM and said "Go ahead and say I told you so.........because you did and you were right!"
There will no doubt be people who swear they couldn't have done "whatever" without the Valium and it's probably true. It all goes back to how each of us is different in our reaction to medications. It didn't work for me, but that does not mean it won't work for you. The only way any of can know what does or doesn't work for us is to try it.
I would only urge that you attempt this taper under the supervision of your prescribing doctor. It is too easy to get yourself into a bad place trying to do it yourself.
I wish you the best.
Peace
Greenlydia