WARNING****Very Personal Question......

[tonyad]

   Wanted to ask a Very Personal question. After reading it, if you do not feel comfortable responding to the actual POST, then you could PM me....

    Now for the question:  How many of you (if any) have either a Pre-Syncope or Syncope Episode after
intercourse?  Told you it was of a Personal Nature...... This has happened to me on several different occasions.
Not a good way to end a romantic time!

     Thanks to all of you for reading and hopefully answering or giving me some insight on this matter.

Peace,
~Tonya

[thyquestions]

I totally agree.  A few years ago I had a near-death accident resulting in many severe injuries, and out of all the doctors and therapies, my chiropractor (who also integrated other approaches) was by far the most beneficial to my "recovery".  I have since moved across country and miss seeing her greatly.  

The neuro-chiro doctor I just started seeing has dedicated half of his practice to helping children with autism, aspergers, ADD, AD/HD, etc. and from what I gather, they are nearly miraculously changing these kids lives.  Good stuff...

[Kavbear]

I worked for a Chiropractic internist several years ago and she had a separate degree that took 2 or 3 years above Chiropractic degree.  She was also a nutritionist, acupuncturist and used applied kinesology.  She was amazing as a doctor and never did any popping like all the other chiropractors I have seen.
She also did tests that I have never seen another doctor do and some people thought it was hokey witch craft but I saw it work on brand new babies and after that I was sold and come to think of it I was in the best health I have ever been working for her.

[thyquestions]

Tonya - thanks for the defs!   I don't think IST applies, not that I've noticed anyway, and NCS doesn't sound like a strong fit either...  other than the extreme fatigue and cognitive issues I saw mentioned, which can be affected by so many other things too.  

hehe, I know right?  There actually is an entire school for chiropractic neurology.  The Carrick Institute.  I hadn't heard of that specialty either until recently, and apparently they help those in shoes like ours ..  with some level of brain or nervous system dysfunction affecting balance, the muscular-skeleton, and other related things due to brain/spine/nerves.  It was described to me as "functional neurology" where exercises (i.e. adjustments) are used to leverage the principles of plasticity to attempt to make new pathways for impaired function/connections.   That said, I am also in the queue to meet with a neuro specialist as well, for more mainstream quantification.  And so it goes....  :)

Thanks again, and hope your day is a good one too!

[tonyad]

   Hey there:0

  Sorry for just throwing  out the acronyms...

AD = Autonomic Dysfunction

IST = Innappropriate Sinus Tachycardia

NCS = NeuroCardioGenic Syncope

  I certainly understand your "Questioning" of your dx.  I have never heard of a
"Chiropractor Neurologist"......is there a real extra Degree for that?   Pretty interesting!

Hope you had a Great day!
~Tonya

[thyquestions]

Thanks for the welcome ~ although I wish none of us were here.

I'm not familiar with those acronyms, but I searched for them on google.  I didn't find IST, and I'm not sure if I found the right description for the other two, but neither POTS or NCS sound totally applicable to me.  Honestly I'm still uncertain about the diagnosis, but my previous doctor has seemed pretty certain for a while now.  The "no sweating" thing was the clincher, but sometimes I do sweat, so .. ?  

I recently started seeing a "chiropractic neurologist" who also confirmed impaired autonomic function through his testing, but his tests aren't anything like the ones mentioned here.  I'm curious how I would do with these ones you all have mentioned.  

Thanks again, and sending best wishes to you too.

[tonyad]

Hello, and Welcome to the AD Forum :)

   Would not surprise me to say that it was probably from the shower.
Heat and AD Do Not Mix!!   And of course keep well hydrated in this heat and heck...I avoid it at all cost..Lol

    Do you have POTS. NCS, IST?  Just curious.....
Sorry that you were diagnosed with any AD!

Take Care and be safe,
~Tonya

[Kavbear]

I would bet the farm it was related to autonomic dysfunction.  I was told no matter HOW I felt I had to sit in the shower. Its a recipe for disaster; standing and heat.
I also deal more with "just" pre-syncope and am dizzy.  So the shower adds in a slippery surface where on stable dry ground I might catch myself or sit down, I can't do that in the shower and stay safe.
The bathroom is one of the most dangerous areas of the house when it comes to hard surfaces to fall on, hard areas to hit our head on, and limited sound to the rest of the house when mixed with water during the shower or bath if we do pass out and someone does not quickly come help us we could be in BIGGER trouble then any of us are now.
I don't even take a shower (sitting) if I am home alone because my blood pressure goes sky high along with my pulse and I am afraid that I will need help and it not be there.

[thyquestions]

How interesting ..  The only time I have *ever* passed out was last year while "in the shower".  Now I'm wondering if it might be related to my recent diagnosis of autonomic dysfunction, or a fluke?   Hm.

[Heiferly]

I love Something's Gotta Give!!  Great movie!

No, I don't think they take environment into account (like with tennis vs. bowling), just the actual physical activity itself.  Plus normal people wouldn't have heat intolerance like we do, and this chart is not designed for dysautonomia, but for anyone (from athletes to cardiac patients).  

[Heiferly]

Well, the list isn't taking into account orthostatic intolerance, because it's not designed for "us," it's just about the amount of energy an average person's body is using during a given task.  Which may very well vary from person to person—some people may sweep more enthusiastically than others, LOL!!  

This is the testing that I had that identified where my body was in terms of tolerating exercise:

http://www.dh.org/body.cfm?id=588

[EmilyKirsten]

I'm surprised that sweeping the floor is so low on the list! And below driving a car! I usually don't have a problem driving. If I'm not feeling well, I prefer not to drive... but I can. Sweeping in my house rarely gets done because my fiance never does it (do men NOT notice when the floors are dirty??) and I have to wait until I'm having a "good" day or get a burst of energy.

[Kavbear]

Did I say too much? If so it was brain fog and I lost my filter...
I can edit it (send me a message if its too much and I will edit it)

[Kavbear]

Sex is important and supine can be soooo boring. I sometimes have sex issues and well here comes maybe TMI
.
.
.
Sometimes I use in my mouth for uh fun and now that I think about it I don't think I have ever gotten dizzy enough to stop. Maybe sucking on ice helps even if not using it for "fun"

When I am having less then a stellar day and have been dizzy to start with I have learned that if on top and lean way down almost supine it helps, same with him behind me if I drop down so I am almost laying face down and flat. I don't even try standing (he does) and I sit almost the entire time I am in the shower but luckily I am not a sex in the shower loving gal.
Have you ever tried laying down where you both are on your sides (you can either be facing each other or "spooning") or being on your side with the bottom leg straight and your top knee pulled way up, he is face down (usually pulling yoou knee up and holding it)....I have not explained the positions well but hope it creates an idea that can form a picture, they for me create the most pleasure with the least work.

I also lay there for how ever long before getting up to use the bathroom, he gets up and uses the bathroom and gets me a cold wash cloth right away which helps.
If I only had sex on my great days we would rarely have sex so I think it bothers me more then him and if push comes to shove, well he's passed out on my several times when we were young and drunk.

About the scale Heiferly posted it first made me thin of the move "Somethings Gotta Give", great movie if you haven't seen it but Jack Nicholson's character has a heart attack and the doctor says he can have sex when he can climb a flight of stairs without losing his breath, so as he walks the beach there is a flight of stairs for him to conquer..LOL

I also just went bowling, because we havent done it in years and its inside and cool and no sweat and HA HA, I looked like I was outside running I was SO hot and my arm and shoulder hurt for a week, not to mention I got dizzy as I threw my arm back and ended throwing my ball at people.  I don't know if climate is considered for that chart but I can't see how bowling and tennis are so close. I might have looked like a freak bowling but in this heat walking to the court would do me in.

I think one of the last issues not talked about even more then mental illness is female sex and the issues involved with it, pregnancy, hormones etc. I think we are so worried that we will offend someone or be looked at wrongly keeps us from talking to other women.
I think we one by one can chip away at this and spread the knowledge instead of inventing the wheel over and over and more importantly feel  that we aren't the only ones with XYZ. I can't tell you how angry I was after I had my daughter that I felt like I was hit by a bus. I expected my breasts to hurt and vaginal pain but I swear my hair hurt. I was the last of my friends to have a baby and we talked in depth and long and I said I wanted to hear it all, I thought that something was wrong since I felt so bad and one by one they all said No thats normal, well then why didn't anyone tell me before and I heard one by one, we did not want to scare you. So body aches will scare me but in-depth episiotomy stories won't? Sorry to rant!

[tonyad]

  I knew you would be able to relate to this and have some good info to share ;)

      Ok, Yes!   I can also see how the position could have an effect as well as the temperature (Shower).  BUT....Supine is sooo boring...Lol (just being silly).
So glad that you have your Mr. McDreamy who totally Understands!

    After all (sex) is a VERY important part of my life!  Sorry if i offended anyone but I feel that this was an important topic that some AD people have but are to embarresed /shy to ask. So, that is why we (Thankfully) have this Forum  to come to :)

   Hope everyone had a nice weekend and will have an even BETTER week!

Peace,
~Tonya

    

[Heiferly]

I suppose this goes without saying, but this may be TMI for some readers:



Yeah, I'm right there with you, Tonya.  I've had issues with both pre-syncope and syncope, sometimes after ... and sometimes, well ... during.  That'll end the romance REAL fast.  :-p  I did finally discuss this with my cardiologist recently, because I felt it was an important aspect of my quality of life that was being impacted.  

I'm really hoping when I start the IV treatment at home, this will become less of an issue or will be resolved completely, but it's completely individual for every patient because we all have different types of dysautonomia with different underlying causes, different meds we're taking, and different levels of severity.  So while some may benefit from water and salt loading, for example, others may need IV treatment, and still others may not get appreciable improvement from either.


That being said, here's what I've noticed regarding this particular problem in my case:  
*it's most likely to occur when I'm already flared up from something else (e.g., heat intolerance), but may happen randomly too
*(sorry this may be **really** TMI, but...) like so many other symptoms of ORTHOSTATIC intolerance disorders, by definition, it can often be worse depending on position—so more upright positions are worse and more supine positions are better
*once I start to get prodrome symptoms, for me there seems to be no turning back and the only way I can avoid an episode is to stop what I'm doing entirely and relax/lie down/drink cold fluids and (if needed for heat intolerance depending on time of year and ambient room temperature) cool myself off with fans/AC/cold compresses
*I learned from cardiac rehab that the MET level of intercourse is
*I'm very fortunate that MrMcDreamy has a good sense of humor and handles these awkward moments quite well.  Where would we be in this world without understanding loved ones??  


Ah, another thought about this!  It was mentioned in my cardiac rehabilitation classes (in the context of heart disease in general)!!  Here's the info on intercourse (oh, insidious alliteration).  Physical activities/exercises are rated in terms of their strenuousness in something called "MET levels" or just "METs."  I am shamelessly "borrowing" the following scale from a handout I received from The Ohio State University Medical Center's "Healthy Heart: Outpatient Cardiac Rehab Program" (that's the title on the cover of our text, but this was a separate handout; I am citing them to give them credit but I can't do a proper citation since it's not an actual published source.  Okay so here's the scale of MET levels:

*Sitting in a chair=1.0
*Sweeping the floor=1.5
*Driving a car=2.0
*Ironing=3.5
*Showering=3.5  (ha!  your mileage may very--depends on if we end up passed out on the floor, huh?!  that's 0 METs for lying on the floor drooling!!!  :-p  )
*Bowling=3.5
*Sex=3.7-5.0
*Golfing=4.0
*Gardening=4.5
*Playing tennis=6.0
*Mowing the lawn by hand=6.5
*Shoveling=7.0
*Skiing=8.0

They also note:  "Sex only takes about as much energy as climbing two flights of stairs or walking half a mile at a brisk pace."

So ... basically, in terms of exercise intolerance for people with dysautonomia who have exercise intolerance as a trigger:  sex falls somewhere between bowling and playing tennis in terms of how much exertion is involved (taking out of the equation the aspect of which activities are done upright, as obviously this list wasn't made to take orthostatic intolerance into consideration—so you have to imagine all this could be done reclined—it's the amount of exertion that counts here).  Using the analogy of walking half a mile at a brisk pace, I'm surprised I don't keel over half-dead every single time I even *think* about sex.  :-p  

[tonyad]

  Thanks you two. I have this happen, Like I said, every now and then......

Emily,
   Funny you mentioned the shower......between the heat from the water, the steam in the air, and then of course my own heart rate climbing.....instant recipe for a possible disaster!..Lol     For me, I know that the heat is a No-No for having both the NCS and the Multiple Sclerosis.

   Thanks again you two for chimming in :)  i am hoping that some of theothers will chime in and give their thoughts / experiences with this topic.

Have a Great week,
Peace,
~Tonya

[EmilyKirsten]

Hello Tonya! I just joined so this is my very first post! I like jumping right into it and basically NOTHING is off-limits for me! haha

I was just diagnosed with NCS so many things are new to me in relation to the illness. They are things that I've done all along without even realizing WHY.

After sex I don't get up and walk around. I've always felt that I needed to relax a little or I thought I would pass out. Well now that I know WHY I felt that way, it makes sense. Because of this, I can't really say I've had an "episode." Except in the shower. Sex in the shower is a no-no. That's the fastest way to get me to pass out. It's like the perfect storm for people with NCS.

I would just recommend that after sex, give yourself a few minutes. Relax. Breathe. Wait for your heart rate to get back within the "normal" range. Also, there are some days where I have to be honest with myself that if I'm having a bad day, sex is not a good idea.


Emily

[vetiver2]

Greetings Tonya:  Never happened to me.  However, since I am learning how important water and salt before sleep are, and since I am learning how to incorporate yoga breathing and water into my lazy ANS when I feel like passing out, I am wondering if you too could benefit from this reminder.