Aa
clonazepam and nervous system?
I will ask the question about clonazepam. I have what I consider anxiety attacks but electrophysilogist says they aren't classic panic attacks but wired up nervous system from ANS.
My primary care gave this med to me a couple years ago but I have been afraid to use it since its addictive Also he only gave me three of them prescribed as follows-take 1 tab 3x a day as needed. Hence a one day supply. I was afraid to even start them because if they work and give some relief it would be terrible if that's all he gave.
Anyway do others use this med and do u find it beneficial and worth the risk? I see him this week and if anybody can give me their thoughts I may bring this up with him again. My anxiety is terrible but I deal with it. I can't take ssris and that type of stuff as its deadly to me. Learned that the hard way.
Beema
My primary care gave this med to me a couple years ago but I have been afraid to use it since its addictive Also he only gave me three of them prescribed as follows-take 1 tab 3x a day as needed. Hence a one day supply. I was afraid to even start them because if they work and give some relief it would be terrible if that's all he gave.
Anyway do others use this med and do u find it beneficial and worth the risk? I see him this week and if anybody can give me their thoughts I may bring this up with him again. My anxiety is terrible but I deal with it. I can't take ssris and that type of stuff as its deadly to me. Learned that the hard way.
Beema
Heiferly, u better feel free to reach out to us anytime! That's what we are all here for wax other! Hope u know that.
At some point, I'll get around to letting you all know what's up with me. Want to finish up loose ends on this thread first, then vent my stuff ... desperately need to. Sometimes I feel odd coming to you all for support ... maybe because the button is entitled "Post a Question" and my OCD gives me the willies when I have to click it on a post that doesn't contain a question. Probably sounds silly to people without OCD ... wish I had a button that said "Vent Now" so I didn't get that feeling of "not rightness" every time I went to just reach out to you all for support but didn't really have a *question* in mind per se. Sigh.
I am going to post something regarding the anxiety not being "emotional" anxiety but rather a physiological phenomenon, but my intuition says that, particularly in light of beema's struggles a the moment as well, this is something the whole community can benefit from right now. So I'm going to start a new thread for this one. Please do go back out to the main Dysautonomia Community forum page and look for that post (I'll title it something re: anxiety) as I think you will find comfort in it as well. I know that I thought it was a gem when I came across it; I highlighted it in my copy of the textbook.
I'm excited to share it with you all.
I'm excited to share it with you all.
I suppose this one should be addressed to "tkimber et. al." since the conversation re: singing and symptoms has included others. Here's my take:
During cardiac rehab (in "stage II cardiac rehab" you're on an EKG throughout and BP is taken a few times each session, which gives you a LOT of data on what causes what by the end of 36 sessions), we found that just *talking* caused major ... I'll call them "upsets" ... to my autonomic nervous system. My heart would go haywire tachy, and if I added any gestures into the conversation, all bets were off ... syncope might easily ensue. Mind you, I was SEATED at the time. I can only imagine what happens when I talk whilst upright. Well I know, actually. On several occasions I've dropped like a rock mid-sentence while trying to tell my Mr. McDreamy something, hahaha.
Singing, as I learned in BioAcoustics during college (ooh, I just KNEW that the MOST tedious class of my entire major program would come in handy some day), is really just drawn out talking. I had a 1:1 tutoring session with a fascinating lecturer (a professional singer, among other talents), who balked when I told her I "couldn't" sing. I'd actually sung in the choir during one year of high school; perhaps what I meant was that I sung *horribly*. She explained that this was simple nonsense because anyone who has a voice and can speak (or vocalize at all, really, words are inconsequential) can sing. I'll spare you the physiology lesson, but this woman got me singing. Red in the face, embarrassed like no other time in my life, but I drew out my voice from staccato speech progressively to longer and longer tones until I was producing musical notes. To my ear, ugly, tortured musical notes, but she seemed pleased enough with the lesson.
The punchline is that if just speaking can make your HR go haywire, I imagine the drawn-out respiratory effort of singing REALLY does a number on it. We also know that BP is affected by talking (that's why it is recommended to zip the lips when doing your orthostatic BPs to get accurate numbers); of course fluctuations in BP and HR often go hand in hand, though not always.
For my part, I mainly restrict my singing to intentionally off-key renditions of 80s and 90s "hits" (oh, do I ever use that term loosely), sung with bits and pieces of missing or botched lyrics for the amusement (torment?) of Mr. McDreamy when I'm feeling silly.
During cardiac rehab (in "stage II cardiac rehab" you're on an EKG throughout and BP is taken a few times each session, which gives you a LOT of data on what causes what by the end of 36 sessions), we found that just *talking* caused major ... I'll call them "upsets" ... to my autonomic nervous system. My heart would go haywire tachy, and if I added any gestures into the conversation, all bets were off ... syncope might easily ensue. Mind you, I was SEATED at the time. I can only imagine what happens when I talk whilst upright. Well I know, actually. On several occasions I've dropped like a rock mid-sentence while trying to tell my Mr. McDreamy something, hahaha.
Singing, as I learned in BioAcoustics during college (ooh, I just KNEW that the MOST tedious class of my entire major program would come in handy some day), is really just drawn out talking. I had a 1:1 tutoring session with a fascinating lecturer (a professional singer, among other talents), who balked when I told her I "couldn't" sing. I'd actually sung in the choir during one year of high school; perhaps what I meant was that I sung *horribly*. She explained that this was simple nonsense because anyone who has a voice and can speak (or vocalize at all, really, words are inconsequential) can sing. I'll spare you the physiology lesson, but this woman got me singing. Red in the face, embarrassed like no other time in my life, but I drew out my voice from staccato speech progressively to longer and longer tones until I was producing musical notes. To my ear, ugly, tortured musical notes, but she seemed pleased enough with the lesson.
The punchline is that if just speaking can make your HR go haywire, I imagine the drawn-out respiratory effort of singing REALLY does a number on it. We also know that BP is affected by talking (that's why it is recommended to zip the lips when doing your orthostatic BPs to get accurate numbers); of course fluctuations in BP and HR often go hand in hand, though not always.
For my part, I mainly restrict my singing to intentionally off-key renditions of 80s and 90s "hits" (oh, do I ever use that term loosely), sung with bits and pieces of missing or botched lyrics for the amusement (torment?) of Mr. McDreamy when I'm feeling silly.
Heiferly, hope ur doing ok. U have been through so much. Thanks for your input. I just came from a long visit with my primary care Dr. He is finally going to educate himself on dysautonomia. He was very kind and as for the klonopin he feels I would benefit and says with my.personality he isn't concerned about addiction. My family history has none in it either. He says if klonopin isn't effective we will try the librium next as I already have the klonopin. He agrees with my electrophysilogist that my anxiety is not a mental thing but a direct effect of my ans being confused and dumping adrenaline inappropriately. He wants me to try it prn as he knows how miserable I have been. It's so nice to finally have drs not throwing the classic line that ur just anxious at me although I haven't had that happen as often as so many I have heard about.
I told him I am not expecting to be cured although that would be great but I want to be able to function at the best level I can. He also suggested a rollator with a seat. That I have the pride problem with:(
I love this forum. Without u all I would feel so alone.
Beema
I told him I am not expecting to be cured although that would be great but I want to be able to function at the best level I can. He also suggested a rollator with a seat. That I have the pride problem with:(
I love this forum. Without u all I would feel so alone.
Beema
I felt like I had a kindred spirit as soon as I read your post. I hope you don't mind me saying so ...
It seems as though you had a "paradoxical" drug reaction. I mean, I don't know if it would officially be called one in medical terms, but you seem to react to clonazepam vs. librium in the exact opposite manner that would be predicted by their known properties. Which is SO typical for some of us with dysautonomia, isn't it?? I've had some weird drug rxns, and it's like the doctors look at you like you're nuts or making it up or something!! Are we wired backwards or inside-out, or what?! :-p
Both clonazepam and librium are benzodiazepines, but librium "should" actually be more prone to cause depression. Here, it's probably easier to quote wikipedia than to try to paraphrase:
"In tests of various benzodiazepine compounds, chlordiazepoxide was found to cause the most profound reduction in the turnover of 5HT (serotonin) in rats. Serotonin is closely involved in regulating mood and may be one of the causes of feelings of depression in rats using chlordiazepoxide or other benzodiazepines."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlordiazepoxide
Sorry, I hope you realize I'm totally not reveling in your icky reaction to klonopin. I just wish the docs/researchers would get around to collecting data on these instances and analyzing WHY we folks with dysautonomia are having bizarre reactions to drugs that seem to defy the pharmacology of the substances themselves, or are "rare" except that we *always* seem to get the "rare" side effects, or why some of us can only tolerate pediatric doses of stuff, etc., etc., etc. What is going on in our bodies? We're each so unique, but we keep having these lightbulb moments where there are these common threads that we seem to share.
Sorry, I think I'm rambling. I wonder if the doses of the two drugs were equivalent (I do know that doctors have equivalencies for all the benzos). Too bad we don't have a pharmacist hanging around. :-p
It seems as though you had a "paradoxical" drug reaction. I mean, I don't know if it would officially be called one in medical terms, but you seem to react to clonazepam vs. librium in the exact opposite manner that would be predicted by their known properties. Which is SO typical for some of us with dysautonomia, isn't it?? I've had some weird drug rxns, and it's like the doctors look at you like you're nuts or making it up or something!! Are we wired backwards or inside-out, or what?! :-p
Both clonazepam and librium are benzodiazepines, but librium "should" actually be more prone to cause depression. Here, it's probably easier to quote wikipedia than to try to paraphrase:
"In tests of various benzodiazepine compounds, chlordiazepoxide was found to cause the most profound reduction in the turnover of 5HT (serotonin) in rats. Serotonin is closely involved in regulating mood and may be one of the causes of feelings of depression in rats using chlordiazepoxide or other benzodiazepines."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlordiazepoxide
Sorry, I hope you realize I'm totally not reveling in your icky reaction to klonopin. I just wish the docs/researchers would get around to collecting data on these instances and analyzing WHY we folks with dysautonomia are having bizarre reactions to drugs that seem to defy the pharmacology of the substances themselves, or are "rare" except that we *always* seem to get the "rare" side effects, or why some of us can only tolerate pediatric doses of stuff, etc., etc., etc. What is going on in our bodies? We're each so unique, but we keep having these lightbulb moments where there are these common threads that we seem to share.
Sorry, I think I'm rambling. I wonder if the doses of the two drugs were equivalent (I do know that doctors have equivalencies for all the benzos). Too bad we don't have a pharmacist hanging around. :-p
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