How to reduce elevated creatinine in very old healthy cat ?

[francoise_peace]

Hello, my cat is not sick yet, it is a female of 19yo or more (found in September 1991), and she has 23,3mg/L of CREA (<24), so still not kidney, but my two other cats dyed of kidney with CREA that went up very fast.
Veterinary prescribed Fortekor 2.5 one by day for prevention.
Her Urea is normal, although she had drink and eat before blood test, it is 0,524g/L. But she drinks a lot: each time she awakes up she wants food and water.
In veterinary there is Epakitin, there is still a lot left from the 2other cats, Veterinary says I can give her. But here they don't sell Azodyl. I don't know if it is good and if we can give without prescription. And if there is something else known there that has got no secondary effects.
And for food I have Royal Canin RENAL wet and dry, although she licks the wet but don't eat it and eats the dry. But I just read it's better to try wet furthermore she is overweight 4.05kg, has osteoporosis and takes Cosequin. Cosequin allows her to be more active and flexible when she takes it and Veterinary says Cosequin is no danger for kidney.
Thank you for all your advices.

[francoise_peace]

Be cautious, because most vets think when phosphorus levels got high, it is almost impossible to get back. They prefer advising phosphate binder therapy before the phosphate gets high.

[DonnaYav]

The prebiotic FOS (fructoosaccharide), used in the probiotic  is a soluble , non-digestible carbohydrate that passes through the digestive tract basically UNALTERED.In the colon, this prebiotic is utilized by the beneficial bacteria for growth and proliferation .
Since it is not digested , it is perfectly safe for Diabetics..It also has been studied in "humans" to have benefits of actually lowering cholesterol levels (slightly) and studied in "humans" and animals with Diabetes and this prebiotic does not raise Blood Glucose levels..

My cat's Blood Glucose is not high, I think I posted "two years ago my cat's Blood Glucose levels were high but after putting her on a grain free low carb canned food her levels have been fine"..Sometimes just getting the animal off of dry food, losing some weight, if they are considered obese will be enough , sometimes not..
She was on a Diabetic prescription canned food from the vet, Purina D/M but easily tired of it so we went to a good quality canned food instead.

Problem is, with prescription diet for Diabetes, it was too high in Phosphorus, the Prescription diet for kidneys is too high in Carbohydrates ..

Thanks for the info , I look at the prescription diets from Hill's Science Diet, Purina, etc.. and I don't see good quality ingredients, yes they are low in Protein(that is a debatable subject whether it is good for them or not) , phosphorus and sodium, plus they probably add a bit more potassium and b vitamins, but I don't like the "by products" and the "corn" or grains they put in, that is just a cheap filler..
The Diabetic prescription diets are about the same, "by products", etc...a high quality no grain canned cat food will basically do the same as the Prescription Diabetic management canned foods...
I am NOT saying they are horrible but you would think they could skip the "by products" and cats do not need Grains, especially corn..

Phosphorus levels, my cat's level was not beginning to reach the stage of being high, last time we had it checked but who knows now so when we go on the 28th ,we will find out.
If it has gone up then I must decide which phosphorus binder to use..
I have been trying to feed her only canned foods that are equal and sometimes lower than the Prescription Kidney diet canned foods..

Thanks for the info, glad your kitty is doing well..

[francoise_peace]

You can always make a special Renalzin request at Medic Animal (UK site), their price are low for this medicine and they accept making arrangements, if I were you, I'll order 150ml and replace it instead of Epakitin, that's the one that made my cat phosphorus go lower, but Renalzin is stronger than Epakitin because it works. So your cat must eat something. Renalzin was a human medicine Fosrenol, adapted to cats, and I had read surveys about Fosrenol, end-life patients human that were going to die of kidney, did die of other disease, they lasted 2years but they were already almost dead. That's how I new it had an effect.

And I mixed it with my probiotics, so if your probiotics doesn't contain chemical, and only contains bacterias (plus sugar), I highly recommend you to mix chemical Renalzin with bacterias probiotics. In my opinion it protects stomach and bowel from lanthanum carbonate edema side effects (that are proven on humans with Fosrenol) and it creates a very efficient medicine to lower both Phos + Urea levels. If your probiotics contains chemical additive, don't mix them, because it will not create the same medicine then for mine. Because molecules are more breakable than atoms and they can change configuration if they meet new chemical molecules, so you never mix 2 chemical things. OK ?

Furthermore with all the medication, my cat that was overweight lost about 1kg, so let her/him eat at her/his want without putting powder or anything your cat dislikes on the food. Show to your cat that his food is safe and give medicine separate from food unless he likes the medicine.

I really think that a strong phosphate binder is important. Bacterias will low Urea, phosphate binder will low Phosphate, if Urea and Phosphate gets lower, Creatinine will get lower, even if your cat looses weight.

http://www.medicanimal.com

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To know where to buy Renalzin in USA, please phone Bayer USA and ask them:
Animal Health
North American Headquarters
PO Box 390
Shawnee Mission, KS 66201
800-255-6517

Furthermore you should also concentrate yourself on your cat's glucose, since you said it's high. Being diabetics (I don't know if high glucose means diabets because I'm not a vet) it's not good with the sugar additives in the probiotics. You'll have to search about what lower glucose. And cat food for diabetic cats recommended by veterinaries does exists:
- Integra Protect Diabetes (Germany)
http://www.zooplus.com/ask?query=diabetes
- Science Hills m/d dry and canned (USA)
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-md-feline-weight-loss-low-carbohydrate-diabetic-dry.html

[francoise_peace]

Yes, here there was only Ipakitin/Epakitin too :)

I have choosen Renalzin because I can't give her Aluminium Hydroxyde (phosphate binder from UK).

And because Epakitin did not work on my two other cats.

You are right, do not give corn to your cat. I just said that because I understood why they have choosed that weird ingredient. They will not speak in a non ambigous way, but long ago several labs pet thought it was the psyllium husk that made BUN go down, but for real it is the bacteria that eats it. If your cat can't eat Purina or Hills it's not a problem.

It'll be interesting to ask if a probiotics that goes in the freezer can survive without FOS (some kind of natural sugar extract that a lot of websites says it's not dangerous for diabetes) or will it die after warming (like cryogenics problems) ?

http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Super_Probiotics_Aids_Diabetes
"Super Probiotics Aids Diabetes Research

Diabetes is an autoimmune disease, meaning the body’s defenses become turncoat and attack the bodily organs instead of invading viruses and bacteria. Many people speculate that foods, such as super probiotics, can aid diabetes. Because probiotics appear to strengthen the immune system, the hypothesis is that they can help correct autoimmune diseases, including diabetes.

Unfortunately, much of this research comes from nutritional products manufacturers. Many of these manufacturers have a vested interested in proving that their pills, tablets and supplements work. Many studies, such as one cited in Natural News, do demonstrate improvement in the body’s immune system after taking probiotics, so the temptation is to extend speculation that probiotics can help diabetes, another autoimmune disease. But many more rigorous double-blind studies and other studies still need to be conducted to see whether or not probiotics can indeed help diabetics."

" probiotic, unscented salmon oil and an 1/8 capsule of a very good b complex "
I hope it'll help her.

I have also found this website that compare some probiotics:
http://www.naturs-way.com/pet/Compare_pet.htm
But this one seems more for respiratory system:
http://www.healthyfoodforpets.com/mseliquidrescuesupplement.html
And there is also that one that is GMP certified:
http://www.holisticpetinfo.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Complete_Probiotics_for_Pets

I had heard about probiotics with salmon oil, but I'm not seing them on Google today.

I hope she'll be better. 28th is long... I understand you are worried. I wasn't expecting mine to be that better, I was only expecting a slighter change. She is not eating much actually. And she did not like the dry Hill's food we bought at the vet because it is too big for her teeth. I don't know what was their idea of making such big crocroc. Speaking about Hill's, they also told me in a very ambigous way, and although they do not answer from french e-mails, that in the past they thought that psyllium husk could cure kidney disease, but I think it might rather be the bacteria that eats the psylium husk prebiotics. Anyway this psyllium husk attracts the X thing that can save your cat. So Science Hills gave me a positive feedback on my equation:

Probiavi + Psyllium Husk cat food + Renalzin = Azodyl + Renalzin + other probiotics - Enterococcus thermophilus + Streptococcus thermophilus.

And probiavi think there is also an X factor they don't know what, but they are happy if it's on their product.

So I have two e-mails suggesting the existence of some mutated bacteria or virus or whatever, one saying we did not say it and one saying it's cool to have such thing in our product that can cure CRF. And I still didn't ask Azodyl.

That's all I have.

Mine is not eating much because the new senior food from Science Hill's from vet is too big for her teeth. I also ordered at vet canned from them, but I don't know wich taste will come ? It's because family can pay food from vet. Now we have too much pet food for a cat life at home. And I'll look for a job, so that I'll be able to buy other senior pet foods she might like more. Past month I spent about 100euros in medicine + food from the net, that was no good for my economy, but saved my cat, and I am very happy.

[DonnaYav]

we do not have renalzin here in the U.S., main ingredients Lanthanum carbonate and kaolin with vitamin E.
There is human prescription of the Lanthanum carbonate but that's it.

Looks like all we have is Epakitin (calcium carbonate and chitosan) and aluminum  phosphate binders, sad.....

Also I have tried Purina K/D prescription canned renal formula but my cat will not eat it and I still am careful of any renal formulas that have corn products in them simply for the fact two years ago my cat's blood glucose levels were elevated but have been under control with a no grain, low carb canned food diet..

I am trying just the tiniest(less than a 1/16 tsp) amount of psyillium husk powder, mix it in enough water to make it form a gel and mix it in her food.
She is also getting the probiotic, unscented salmon oil and an 1/8 capsule of a very good b complex.

We have an appointment on the 28th for recheck on her kidney values and to check levels on calcium, phosphorus, potassium and sodium...

Have a great day

[francoise_peace]

And I also don't know of the side effects from this miracle, if considered as whole treatment. For now I'm without my probiotics and waiting for my new ones, because the vet said to go on treatment.

I just changed my cat food to senior.