How to reduce elevated creatinine in very old healthy cat ?

[francoise_peace]

Hello, my cat is not sick yet, it is a female of 19yo or more (found in September 1991), and she has 23,3mg/L of CREA (<24), so still not kidney, but my two other cats dyed of kidney with CREA that went up very fast.
Veterinary prescribed Fortekor 2.5 one by day for prevention.
Her Urea is normal, although she had drink and eat before blood test, it is 0,524g/L. But she drinks a lot: each time she awakes up she wants food and water.
In veterinary there is Epakitin, there is still a lot left from the 2other cats, Veterinary says I can give her. But here they don't sell Azodyl. I don't know if it is good and if we can give without prescription. And if there is something else known there that has got no secondary effects.
And for food I have Royal Canin RENAL wet and dry, although she licks the wet but don't eat it and eats the dry. But I just read it's better to try wet furthermore she is overweight 4.05kg, has osteoporosis and takes Cosequin. Cosequin allows her to be more active and flexible when she takes it and Veterinary says Cosequin is no danger for kidney.
Thank you for all your advices.

[DonnaYav]

Well I heard from Weruva and the only reply was phosphorus .29% and Sodium .13%, nothing about the taurine, HMMM!

So, With giving wellness, taurine , minimum 0.10 %(one can) and the Soulistic 0.5% Min, (two small cans)should this be sufficient or not???

I have found that AAFCO recommendations on taurine are 0.2 for canned and 0.1 for dry.

Should I be supplementing some Taurine and if so how much ????Questions, questions, I am totally lost here.

[DonnaYav]

As of right now I am giving EZ Wellness turkey, no grain and Soulistic.
She gets one can of the Wellness and one can of the Soulistic daily.
If Soulistic is in the smaller cans I give two Soulistic and one Wellness.

I have e-mailed Weruva, the manufacturers of Soulistic to inquire about the taurine levels, since it says "min" after the amount..
I have not been able to run across anything that states Chicken is used  only when a  cat is sick and many of the homemade Kidney diets use chicken.

Game meats, beef are high in Uric acid and that is why I have a tendency to stay clear of them.

I ordered Iflora pet healthy and psyillum husk and they should be arriving today.
In the meantime I have been giving her Pet Dophillus by Jarrow and Pet Sun Chlorella.

I also e-mailed Tiki several days ago but have not heard back from them, nor at this point expect a reply.

I also e-mailed Life Abundance Instinctive choice today to enquire about their canned products.

I have read that cat with renal failure should steer clear of any meats with animals  that have hoofs and to stay with animals that have feathers such as chicken, turkey, etc...

I am no expert, I try to give my cat what I feel is best for her, for her condition.
I am hoping to hear back from Weruva on the Soulistic, their products are human grade and ingredients "appear" good but I am also in question about the taurine and sodium levels in each can...

Have a great week...

[francoise_peace]

If you hesitate too much on probiotics, there is, as you said, Azodyl:
Enterococcus thermophilus (KB 19) - (Probiavi: Streptococcus thermophilus)
Lactobacilus acidophilus (KB 27) - also in Probiavi
Bifidobacterium longum (KB 31) -also in Probiavi
Psyllium husk -> In canned wet Hill's Renal k/d and in Purina wet and dry
http://www.vetoquinol.ca/en/index.asp?page=215

I'll have to order more Probiavi sooner, because even if I didn't finish it, it lasted a month. http://www.probiavi.com/english/probiavi_cats.htm

Probiavi + Psyllium Husk cat food + Renalzin = Azodyl + Renalzin + other probiotics - Enterococcus thermophilus + Streptococcus thermophilus.

I hope she can wait.

[francoise_peace]

@DonnaYav:

About probiotics, let's compare Probiavi with iFlora Healthy Pets:

Probiavi Felin contains:

Pediococcus Acidophilus
Bifido lactis
Bifido Longdum (OK)
Lactobacillus Acidophillus (OK)
Streptococcus Thermophilus (OK)
S.Cervisiae (yeast)
FOS (Fructo oligo sacharide) (OK)
And a little dextrose (food grade)

iFlora Healthy Pets contains:

Short Chain Fructooligosacharide (OK)
(NutraFlora® scFOS®)............................................................859mg
Proprietary Enzyme Blend.................................102mg
Amylase, Amylase EC*, ß-Glucanase, Cellulase, Glucoamylase, Hemicellulase, Invertase Lactase, Malt Diastase, Lipase, Lipase EC*, Phytase, Bromelain, Papain, Protease 3.0, Protease 4.5 Protease 6.0, Protease 7.0 EC*
Proprietary Probiotic Blend.................................39mg
Lactobacillus acidophilus (OK)
Lactobacillus bulgaricus
Streptococcus thermophilus (OK)
Bifidobacterium bifidum
Bifidobacterium longum (OK)
*EC: Enteric coated.

I agree that sugar isn't good for cats but I think they add it for the taste. My probiotics have acid taste.

About quantity of Probiotics:
iFlora: Proprietary Probiotic Blend.................................39mg / 859+102+39 mg => 7.8%

Probiavi: 12 x 10^9 cfu/g (12 billions)

But the 859mg is some kind of sugar fiber:
NutraFlora® (scFOS®) prebiotic fiber
GTC Nutrition offers NutraFlora® short-chain fructooligosaccharides (scFOS®), a natural prebiotic fiber that is uniquely capable of providing nutrition solutions such as bone, immune and digestive health by improving the absorption of calcium, magnesium and soy isoflavones, and maintaining healthy immune response and digestive function. NutraFlora also provides many positive functional benefits including adding fiber, enriching flavors, improving moistness, lowering carbohydrate content, and increasing the shelf-life of products.

Prebiotic seems to be the food for probiotics:
http://www.dairyfoods.com/Articles/Article_Rotation/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000223520
Prebiotics such as NutraFlora short-chain fructooligosaccharides (scFOS) from GTC Nutrition nourish the growth of probiotics and contribute to health in a number of ways. The first way is through competitive exclusion. By providing a selective growth medium to the colon and nourishing probiotic bacteria, including Lactobacilli and Bifidobacteria, NutraFlora helps to crowd out less beneficial bacteria, which can otherwise overgrow and cause problems.  When comparing prebiotic fiber ingredients, glucose termination and short-chain length are extremely important considerations to the fermentation profile and ingredient functionality. The chemical structure and chain length of a prebiotic will determine how easily it can be utilized by probiotic bacteria. NutraFlora scFOS is a specific, defined mixture of glucose-terminated fructose chains with a maximum chain length of five units, and 95% pure active prebiotic.  It is derived from cane or beet sugar by a natural fermentation process and has more than 200 scientific studies supporting its health benefits.  

I think the article doesn't contains very much probiotics, but it looks OK for a cat, FOS isn't dangerous unless your cat has diabets. And FOS helps the good bacterias to stay alive in the medicine and in the body. I think it should be refrigerated, even though the probiotics will sure survive without refrigeration in that amount of FOS.

But I don't agree with the wet pet food choice as said on message before. I think it isn't nourishing enough. And if your cat looses weight, it could be not advised.

***** * ****

@Opus88: Thanks for the positive opinion about glucosamine HCL, but I think that what can harm the skin can harm inside the body. I don't think it's safe to use Cosequin more than the "Initial 4 to 6 Week Administration Period" (http://www.nutramaxpet.com/Products/Cosequin-Cats.aspx). So I'll say perhaps a 2months/year prescription would be safer. But I must say Cosequin had a true effect on my cat since she could lick herself backwards and jump higher with it. I can't be sure of the latence period before using it again, I propose 10months, but maybe wait less will be OK, but I can't guess.

Cosequin is good for cats. It has real effects. But overdose sure can start cancer.

[francoise_peace]

Interesting. It contains more ingredients than Sheba Chicken and it says low phosphorus. http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

Protein level is weird (recomm 28 - 43), Phosphorus looks real low (recomm 0,37 - 0,76), Fat is weird (18 - 37), Taurine is too low ( One of these VERY ESSENTIAL ingredients is taurine. http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm), and they don't speak about Sodium level. You'll have to add taurine if you use this food and check for the recommended level !

Soulistic Harvest Sunrise Chicken & Pumpkin Dinner Adult Canned Cat Food in Gravy
3 oz. - Harvest Sunrise Chicken & Pumpkin - Case of 12
SKU: 1229214
http://www.petco.com/product/110264/Soulistic-Adult-Canned-Cat-Food-in-Gravy.aspx?CoreCat=SBB

Crude Protein (min) 8.0%, Crude Fat (min) 1.1%, Crude Fiber (max) 0.5%, Moisture (max) 84%, Ash (max) 2.0%, Calcium (max) 0.25%, Phosphorus (max) 0.25%, Magnesium (max) 0.03%, Taurine (min) 0.05%.

[francoise_peace]

I'm going to read all this but before I must say my cat isn't having no PH problems !

She's deaf so I could put the PH paper under her without her noticing me : 6.2 (yellow-green).

So it's rather acid then alcalin. Cat's PH should be from 6 to 6.5, although if it's less or higher it doesn't necessarily means something is wrong because the cat's diet, the cat's food also influence PH.

An acid urine can mean less chloride. Although Happy Cat contains salt (Na-Cl) and they didn't answer me, she ate recentely a lot Renal K/D wet (wich contains Psyllium Husk wich I don't know if it's good or not for her chronic constipation, but wich doesn't contains salt Na-Cl, and this is good for her blood values). So that must mean her Sodium must be back to normal.

An acid urine can mean meat diet. She's not having meat diet because renal diet is low protein and Happy Cat contains vegetables wich should mean alkalin diet and alkalin urine. Perhaps it's because she is a little overweight, but I don't know if she lost weight with all those problems, that could have cause high protein. She's eating and asking less, but renal food is less tasty.

An acid urine can mean uric acid, cystine, and calcium oxalate crystals. That means Renalzin have kept her phosphorus level low because alkalin urine can mean struvite, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, ammonium biurate, and amorphous phosphate crystals. But on the other hand she is a little addict to the Renalzin + Probiotics mixture, although she doesn't like it, she screams before I give it to her, because she wants to sleep after her medicine. I hope this addiction is not serious.

http://cats.about.com/od/lowerurinarytractdisease/qt/catsurinpH.htm
http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/sine/index.php

Her blood levels are going to be controlled next Wednesday, I hope they got down.

***

About the chicken, I heard it was good when you're sick, and it's more safe than fish because fich can be a little poisoned from ocen water. But I also have read that cat food with real chicken slices have high sodium and high phosphate, so although Sheba did not answer me, but food that looks alike mention on their product: not advised for kidney cats.

" Please note: Almo Nature cat food is entirely natural. Every single flavour of Almo Nature wet food (tuna, chicken, salmon etc) contains its own proportions of vitamins, minerals (e.g. calcium, phosphorus) and taurine. Almo Nature therefore recommends a diet which is based on a variety of different natural foods (red meat, poultry, fish, dry and wet food). The varying nutrient contents of this variety will ensure a balanced diet for your cat. "

So it's good for them when they are young, but she is too old to eat strong real food like that.

I think stopping the Cosequin was also a very good idea because over 4months of use it can cause cancer (scientific survey on cosmetics with same ingredients than Cosequin) although they put no side effects.

On Renal K/D can it's written: " Recommended time for use: initially up to 6 months. " So if my cat is better, she'll have to change to Senior food. Maybe she'll go into Royal Canin dry again. To find a wet senior food it's going to be complicated. I'm glad she liked one renal wet food. I'll see what the vet have for her to try.

I'll know everything next week.