Five year old Son - Anger Issue? - Help, please!

[Mommaoffour]

I have been having quite a time with my 5 year old son.  He is the youngest of my four children and has been displaying problems for over a year now.  

He can be the sweetest, most loving child.  He can be so sweet ... sit with me for a long time ... he loves to be hugged and loves to show emotion at times.  He behaves, uses manners, says yes please, no thank you .. etc.  He'll do what he's asked or told to do and with no arguments -- it's great.

Then, he can turn in an instant.  You almost don't know when this will happen.  It doesn't have to be anything to make him mad -- it can be just after he wakes up or it can be after he gets home from school.  He's even done a couple of things at school (recently) -- nothing as serious at home, but I'm worried that it's escalating in nature.     Sometimes the change can be due to being told no, being asked to do something, one of his friends not playing with him, his brother or sister not playing with him ... etc.  Sometime it can be something serious that causes the change and sometimes it can be be little .. and sometimes absoltuely nothing at all, there is no pattern in what causes it.  

When he gets angry ... his eyes get big -- he starts breathing angrily -- big, deep breaths that you can hear ...  He'll yell, he'll run at you and hit, kick, scratch you.  He has had times when he says I hate you, or I want a new Mom (sister, brother, etc.)  He'll say he wants to go to a new home, he'll even escalate at times and say he wants to kill you or he has stab he'll stab you - etc.  He can be just angry and mad or he can say really violent things -- again, no pattern.  It's really scary.  

When he's in his good moods, we almost all walk on eggshells and I know it shouldn't be that way.  We do almost anything we can to "preserve" the good moments and try to make the angry moments less.  The problem is, we can't always know when one might come on and almost anything (or nothing at all) can trigger it.  

When he gets angry -- we  just don't know what to do.  Yelling is no good, we all know that.  If someone yells back - or threatens to spank -- or tries to spank .. he just thinks you're fighting with him.  It's no good.  However, he won't do time out ... or anything "rational" because he's in a completely unrational state.  I wish I could explain it better, but I really don't know how to.  

I've looked into behavior therapy, but everything is out of network and they want tons of money to start any kind of therapy.  I don't think simple counseling is going to help my son -- when he's not in his moments - he doesn't understand what you're talking about ... why you're talking to him about being angry -- or, you run the possbiltiy of getting him angry just by talking about it.  When he's in his anger state -- he won't listen.  Nothing you say gets to him, it's as if his sense of hearing is turned off and everything irrational has turned on suddenly.

Help, please!  I love my son and do not want this problem to escalate to something more serious.  I am so worried that things have been slowly escalating as he didn't use to act this way at school .. but, in the past two weeks .... I've been called once by his principal because he (my five year old son in Kindergarten) kicked a third grader in the bathroom and  left marks on him.  Then, the other day he got angry at his teacher and took his glasses off and broke them -- just because he was angry.  

Oh, that's something I forgot to include -- he does break things, tear things up, and throw things.  If you send him to his room -- or if he's in a room that has things in it ... when he's angry, he will break or throw things.  Just today he threw things around in my daughter's room and we've yet to get him to clean them.  He just doesn't respond to us when he gets in these modes.  They can last anywhere from a few minutes to the whole day.  

If anyone has been through anything similar, please let me know -- or, if  you have any ideas / thoughts on what I can do for him.

Thanks for listening (well, reading)!

[silentmuse]

Thank God I thought I was alone My boy is 5 as well I have 2 older siblings for him and he to is a wonderful wonderful little boy but now that he is in school I am getting complaints about his Hands on approach to the other kids at school, he has been so good, up till school started he does not hurt or take any thing out on us, his older brother wrestles with him and I get so Angry cause I know that this is a part of why he does what he does I ask my older son to stop, some times I beg for the little one needs to be able to go to school and now here I am with this I can not have this to be happening, first it is wrong to be hands on, and second I cant have my baby Ostracism by the Parents and Kids at the School I could careless if I have friends but he needs to be invited to birthday parties games sleep overs to have that Kid experience, So my Question is this How do I get my Older two to understand its not fair to not give the Little one the same chance I gave them :o(

Broken Hearts
Mommy of 3    

[frustratedmom30]

Our son is 10 and he is a spitting image of everything you wrote in your initial description of your 5 year old. It was like I had sat down and wrote it. Our son has been diagnosed with ADHD (with paranoia and aniexty) and Oppositional Defiant Disorder.......hes been on meds that made him 65 lbs in 3 months....resulting in him now being 10 years old and weighing 180 lbs...he is 5 ft 3 ..and built like a brick sh*thouse. When he becomes violent, I pity whoever is on the receiving end. I wish I had some ideas for you to try, but we are also at our whits end. We have seen pediatricians....doctor after doctor......specialists....neurosurgeons.....mental health doctors....the list goes on and on ..and all they want to do is pump him full of meds that do jack crap. I am sick of putting him on meds.

He has NO issues at school and actually tests 2 years above his grade level. He is in advance everything. He started grade 5 this year and the teacher loves him, she says he is very acedemically gifted.

If You EVER find out anything that helps your son, please pass it along, and i will do the same.

[1an8jel7]

hello, its been some time sense you have posted your comment about your then five year old son. how is he doing now. i just read your article and if you have already figured out his problem then i am very pleased to hear such and i wish you the best. but if not, hopefully it has not gotten any worse.
I am now 20 a very functioning,happy and healthly citizen. when i was five i had very bad episodes like the ones you've discribed. id black out to say the least and act out violently, mostly over very little things. when in kindergarten i tried to strangle a young boy; and for a very long time i denied such accusations because i did not remember actually doing it. this continued for a long time like the littlest thing could set me off in a big way. id lash out at my mother and sister, or whoever i could. ive grown now and have came to terms with my issues. now i do understand there can be many reasons for his behavior some more serious mental disorders like bipolar. others could be settled with anger managment classes. but if it helps, my problems where because i had surpressed memories. And when a child has such it can and will serverly altire his/her personality. maybe if this way has still contiued try to ask him about his dreams. if he has any reacurring dreams pay close attention to them. in particular if he dreams of any physical altercations that means he struggling with something. i know me as well as some others i have talkd to who have shared a dream where you punching something but nothing is happing. means your fighting a bad experience or an alter ego (bad side.) if this is the case at least you have something to work with. And it can be settled if he talks about what is troubling him.
i hope ive helped and not disturbed you any more then nessisary. please take care my best wishes. And i promise you ma'am no matter what his issues actually are i know he will be blessed.  

[benjimom]

From what I understand, Bipolar is a controversial diagnosis in young children, basically unheard of until about the 1990s, I did read that their symptoms tend to be worse than those diagnosed in adulthood.  They tend to be more violent, etc.   I think with bipolar medication isa  MUST.

But I have read of cases of children who were dx with bipolar and had sensory issues, etc.  Also a lot of kids with ADHD have sensory issues.

For a five year old, I'v ebeen told that is too young for an ODD dx.

[motherandteacher32]

So glad u have found something that is working for your child. I think you make some very valid points. It is very common for psychiatrists to try and medicinally treat patients to help lead them to a diagnosis. They start giving prescriptions to treat symptoms that may be common to say, ADHD or bipolar, and if the medicine seems to work, they feel they've made the correct diagnosis. The problem with that approach is definitely the masking effects some of those meds may have on other symptoms that may be directive to a more accurate diagnosis. And, as you pointed out, many of these illnesses/disorders have overlapping symptoms. It would be the same as treating someone w Malaria using a strong prescription of ibuprofen because the symptos included body aches and fever and diagnosing them with the common flu. The body aches and fever may lessen, but that does not mean the diagnosis was correct or the treatment appropriate.

That's why I can't stress enough to parents to do your own research. If something doesnt seem to fit or you're noticing additional symptoms to that of the diagnosis, insist that the doctor go back to the drawing board. For benjimom, if they tried to diagnose your child w bipolar, the sirens were probably blaring in your head that it had to be something more. Bipolar doesn't tend to include sensory problems or develomental delays. It is defintely much more of a mood disorder, with emotional and behavioral problems.

Parents, obviously I'm a big believer in medication, since I've been taking medication since my early teens to control my bipolar manic episode w depression and idiopathic hypersomnia. I simply wouldn't b such a high functioning mother w a career w/o my psychiatrist, the medications and family support system. However, I strongly urge you to take notes at the psychiatrist visit on the diagnosis and treatment suggested. Then research thoroughly to see if your child fits this description. If not, write down the ways you feel your child doesn't fit under this diagnosis and any additional information you can provide about their disorder. Call the doctor back and ask him/her to go back to the drawing  board and figure out any other possibilities! The more info u provide the doctor, the better diagnosis they can make. When a possible diagnosis is reached, ask the doctor and reasearch all alternative therapies to medications. Try those first, and use the medication as the 2nd option. Be patient if there are some side effects, such as grogginess, give the doctor time to make adjustments to the meds, to best suit your child.

Good luck and god bless!

[benjimom]

HI,

I am sure you are going through a really hard time right now. Believe me, I know.  

My son has sensory processing disorder and is currently in OT.  He used to hit and kick me too, pull my hair, etc.  Getting ready for school was really hard too. He even had a lot of issues in kindergarten.  But since getting him inot OT, he's been doing so MUCH Better.  He is learning to control his emotions so much better and I can see such a change. He is not perfect by any means, but so much better and the hitting and kicking and hair pulling have really stopped thank goodness. LIfe was really hard during those times. Some days I would drop him off to school and then just cry.  He would have so much aggression.  I found spanking increased the aggression, so for that reason I don't spank anymore.

I was getting a lot of calls too from teh principal and them wanting me to pick him up early.  I am lucky I was able to keep my job during that period of time.  

I would suggest looking at getting your child an OT evaluation.  I took my son to therapy, but in the long run, really wasn't helpful.  The lady was convinced he had adhd and then another said bipolar.  The first psychologist did mention he was "unregulated", which was so true, but hewasn't putting it together with a sensory piece either.  My son had a lot of issues with sensory modulation.   He would be fine one minute and the next not so good.

I still find myself nervous about it all. Iv'e found being a mom to be really stressful even when he was little, but I think a lot of this is from teh sensory issues. My son was late to talk (after age 3) as well.  We have found out through OT, he has a lot more definiciencies in his development, so it's helped me a lot to know that and to know I was not crazy in feeling overwhelmed with him.  

He's six now.  He's been in OT since the end of May.  

You could also talk to ta child psychiatrist as well about it.  Read the book, "the out of sync child" or "sensational child", etc.  There are other good ones.  Do this before going onto powerful drugs like Abilify.  I know they help kids, but I aslo feel like they are covering up problems that we need to find a root cause for.  My psychiatrist did not want to prescribe any medications for my son and he suggested teh OT, but he said also to give it time, at least four months to see if it helped.

A lot of therapists do not truly understand the sensory piece so for that reason I did not find them to be that helpful, the ones I went to wanted to put on a dx like ADHD or bipolar, etc.  Sensory issues can very easily mimic bipolar nad ADHD.

Good luck and keep searching, DOn't give up and if something doesn't seem right then keep searching...... You are the only one who can fight for your child!!