Born gay or Turned gay?

[MrsPincince]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_people_born_gay




NO JOKE! I am dead serious about this post....

[rivll]

I have been out and just now looked in. I have only scanned this conversation but it looks like a good one. I do want to say that the "Old" Testament (the only one I acknowledge, sorry) in Judaism is nothing like the literal understanding non Jews or secular Jews have of it. For a Jew, there is no way to understand it without the commentaries (Talmud). For example "an eye for an eye" means in Judaism that if you harm someone you must compensate them for that loss monetarily or in some way agreeable to both parties, but certainly not by violence. Not to cook a kid in it's mothers milk means literally not to kill the calf in front of the mother as it causes undue suffering, yet it is observed by orthodox Jews by keeping milk products and meat separate. It goes on and on and frankly a lot of it doesn't really make sense to me and there are no complete answers to my mind, but like April, I observe what I believe is expected of me and I do it out of respect for my religion and its laws. I must add that I am not really very good at following rules, I take liberties and I do not represent Orthodox Judaism, I am way too liberal for that. That's my my disclaimer.
About the arrogance, I see it with ppl of all religions.Not referring to you at all April just in general. Actually politically too, when people are so certain they have they answer they cannot help but get pushy esp. if they want to save you.
One more thing, what Vance said was entirely correct. Science has often backed up the miracles in the Bible (Right now there are millions of locusts swarming in Egypt-the ppl are really suffering too) It make it no less miraculous to my mind. There is a saying by the Rambam (and probably lots of other folks) "There are miracles in our lives every day, we need only to open our eyes"
So Science can be proof for or against-it is all about faith.

[mikesimon]

We're cool. I'm fine with you. I know you never intended to insult me or my religion or to offend me in any way. I guess that really is part of what I was trying to say - that it is not intentional but it always just happens.

Of course I forgive you April. Don't think twice about it.

Mike

[April2]

I in no way meant to offend you or your beliefs, mikesimon, and I'm sorry if I did. :( I have the utmost respect for Judaism. That is the foundation of Christianity and Jesus too was a Jew.
I didn't mean to suggest that the law was obsolete. Of course we should follow the 10 commandments, etc.
And I wouldn't mind at all if you shared your faith and beliefs, mikesimon, as I'm always interested in learning more. Please forgive me, again, if I offended you. That was certainly not my intent.
Take care.

[mikesimon]

The electricity service provider companies are all trying to get me to sign up with them and they claim that it is in order to save me money on my bill. I wonder why, if it is so great for me, they are all pushing me so hard to sign up.

I get proselytized so frequently by Born Again Christians that - like with the electricity provider companies - I wonder why everyone is pushing me so hard to convert. My faith is different from yours and I am quite comfortable with my belief system. I would never talk the way you talk because I won't impose on your faith. But, people like you - and I don't mean this disparagingly - don't ever hesitate to impose on my faith which is Judaism. You don't pause for a second before saying that Jesus made the Jewish law obsolete and only relevant as a teaching tool. If you could see your religion through my eyes you might be surprised at what I see. But, I am not going to go there because I respect your faith. I only ask that you allow for the possibility that other faiths might also be valid and worthy of respect.

[brice1967]

April is right on what I meant.  There are some differences between the testaments.

[April2]

Vance, I think he's talking about the difference in the OT and the NT not that there's changes in the NT, am I right? I think because I said we aren't living under the law anymore in the OT because of what Jesus did in the NT, we are living under grace now, not the law.

I think that's what is meant by the changes. I could be mistaken.

I understand the struggle to understand and accept that Jesus said He is the way to the Father. But in a way, I think it makes things easier because there's only one God, not dozens to try to please, does that make sense? If you were God and created everything and people, wouldn't you want people to turn to you only for their needs and not make up their own gods and idols?
Again, I don't thnk we're going to have all the answers. The best we can do is seek God on our own and keep searching for the truth.