Aa
Scattered Walmart strikes don't dent bottom line
Well that turned out to be an expected Flop. Since we are now limited, I’m going to post the highlights of the article.
“2:12PM EST November 23. 2012 - Scattered strikes and protests by Walmart workers and their supporters in at least nine states may have scored symbolic points Friday by taking on the retail giant head-on, but apparently they did little to keep shoppers away as the company quickly claimed its best Black Friday ever. “The company said in a statement Friday morning that its stores rang up almost 10 million transactions from the time doors opened for Black Friday shoppers at 8 p.m. Thursday until midnight, or about 5,000 items per second.”
“CEO Bill Simon said in a statement that there were only 26 protests at stores Thursday night, "and many of them did not include any Walmart associates."
“Protests were also reported outside a Walmart in Quincy, Mass., and in Landover, Md., where hundreds of union workers wearing "OUR Walmart" T-shirts marched outside a store in Landover, Md. OUR stands for "Organization United for Respect."
(Notice the article say’s Union Workers not Walmart employees)
“Walmart spokesman Dan Fogleman called the protest "insignificant" in a statement to HuffPost, claiming less than five workers walked off the job. He dismissed the rally as "the latest publicity stunt' by a union seeking media attention.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/23/walmart-strike-protests-black-friday/1722551/
I was glad to read these strikes were unsuccessful.
89% of the people can't be wrong....
rivll, your right, we are all repeating the same crap. Im done with this conversation. :)
Like I said, follow the money. Like u said, Hostess went a far piece in their own demise but its easy to blame the workers for not thinking a 27 percent decrease in pay over 5 years and an end to their benefits, fair. But thats okay, let the workers squirm and you can cut and run and get out of all your commitments that way. I somehow don't think we have heard the last of this organization, maybe the last of the name.
We keep repeating ourselves. For every good experience there is a bad one and visa versa.
can we agree that there needs to be changes without disregarding the good?
BTW , I am aell union as were my parents and you never knew harder workers, so careful about
Teko, hostess did their own part in the company's demise,...I don't argue that at all...but tiome and again, when they told the union they were going under, they wouldn't even work with them. Hell, even the LAST time, a couple weeks ago here, after it was made public that Hostess was shutting down, they STILL wouldn't compromise.
I said, "in my experience". I've had two jobs where I've had to work with a union. I was not in a union because I was considered an administrative position, but I directly supervised lots of union employees.
I also have very close friends who work for a union managed company. I hear very much the same kind of stories.
I didn't say "everyone" who worked for a union fell into those categories. I'm sure there are people who have been happy with them, and who were hard workers.
MY experience has been nothing but negative. The crap I saw was astounding. TRULY the hard worker got the short end of the stick every time. I had to watch nurse's aides double up on the number of residents they had to care for (jeopardizing quality of care) every time another CNA would call off, for the 30th time in a year. They were untouchable. Literally.
There was always a loophole, the union got them out of disciplinary action almost every single time. My hands were tied doing my own job, day after day. I couldn't make basic staffing decisions (that would again affect the patients) without making sure the union agreed with my decision. It was a joke.
Word to the wise, if you ever have to put a loved one in a nursing home, choose one that isn't union affiliated. I would never work in a union facility again. The patients were NOT a priority, EVER.
I also have very close friends who work for a union managed company. I hear very much the same kind of stories.
I didn't say "everyone" who worked for a union fell into those categories. I'm sure there are people who have been happy with them, and who were hard workers.
MY experience has been nothing but negative. The crap I saw was astounding. TRULY the hard worker got the short end of the stick every time. I had to watch nurse's aides double up on the number of residents they had to care for (jeopardizing quality of care) every time another CNA would call off, for the 30th time in a year. They were untouchable. Literally.
There was always a loophole, the union got them out of disciplinary action almost every single time. My hands were tied doing my own job, day after day. I couldn't make basic staffing decisions (that would again affect the patients) without making sure the union agreed with my decision. It was a joke.
Word to the wise, if you ever have to put a loved one in a nursing home, choose one that isn't union affiliated. I would never work in a union facility again. The patients were NOT a priority, EVER.
And as far as Hostess, I wouldnt feel to sorry for em till word comes out about how much of a cut the CEO's took. Im betting not only did they not take a cut but got bonuses as well. Follow the money.
BS! My mother worked for a union based company and was one of the hardest workers you ever did see, I find that insulting to say the least. Secondly, in the same factory she retired from, my brother is still working there and has for many many years. I guess they must like the union and find it acceptable? How many of you have ever worked for a union other than Barb? There are good and there are bad and like I said if you dont like em, dont work for em, by all means. Really is that simple.
Yeah, the union issues are not new. They are just used more as a political platform now in politics.
In my experience, the people who LIKE working for the unions are the ones who do as little as possible, yet continue to demand more. The people who don't like the unions are the people who actually take pride in their work, and do a good job. They're sick and tired of pulling the weight of many people, and watch while the unions protect the guy who they're taking up the slack for.
Amanda...your post was spot on. That's exactly what's wrong with the unions. They have TOO much power, they function via blackmail and strong arming, they use the media to hurt company's reputations, to get their way. That's wrong.
A teacher's union in Pittsburgh a few years back made this big fuss, stating the district would not budge on ONE issue during contract renewal...that was expecting the teachers to pay $10/month towards their health insurance. They were outraged that it would be expected of them to contribute ANYTHING when it was paid for 100% in the past by the district. TEN bucks a month!!!!! MOST people, pay hundreds a month toward their insurance. Ridiculous. They got their way, because they organized a teacher strike. So, they bullied the district into caving. That's outrageous. It made me sick.
Times have changed. If there's a way to overhaul unions and keep them around, wonderful. Honestly, I can't see how it's possible,...they're in everyone's pockets, they're rampant in politics. I can't see how all of that would change.
The hostess debacle for exmaple. We're talking a HUGE company that's been around a LONG time. Their union played a huge role in actually putting the whole company under. 18K jobs lost. If that isn't a good example of how unions can harm people, I don't know what is. They're bullies in suits. They do much more damage than the employers EVER could do, IMO.
In my experience, the people who LIKE working for the unions are the ones who do as little as possible, yet continue to demand more. The people who don't like the unions are the people who actually take pride in their work, and do a good job. They're sick and tired of pulling the weight of many people, and watch while the unions protect the guy who they're taking up the slack for.
Amanda...your post was spot on. That's exactly what's wrong with the unions. They have TOO much power, they function via blackmail and strong arming, they use the media to hurt company's reputations, to get their way. That's wrong.
A teacher's union in Pittsburgh a few years back made this big fuss, stating the district would not budge on ONE issue during contract renewal...that was expecting the teachers to pay $10/month towards their health insurance. They were outraged that it would be expected of them to contribute ANYTHING when it was paid for 100% in the past by the district. TEN bucks a month!!!!! MOST people, pay hundreds a month toward their insurance. Ridiculous. They got their way, because they organized a teacher strike. So, they bullied the district into caving. That's outrageous. It made me sick.
Times have changed. If there's a way to overhaul unions and keep them around, wonderful. Honestly, I can't see how it's possible,...they're in everyone's pockets, they're rampant in politics. I can't see how all of that would change.
The hostess debacle for exmaple. We're talking a HUGE company that's been around a LONG time. Their union played a huge role in actually putting the whole company under. 18K jobs lost. If that isn't a good example of how unions can harm people, I don't know what is. They're bullies in suits. They do much more damage than the employers EVER could do, IMO.
If as you say brice, that only 11 percent of the nations work force is on board, and you choose not to work for one, then what is YOUR problem with unions. None, I would surmise so live and let live. Evidently that 11 percent does not hold your views. The main reason they are union and you are not, right? But hey, you are more than welcome to your opinion, as they are to theirs, right? Right!
I think the unions have pounded into the heads of their believers that they are an essential part of life. (If that were the case, more than 11% of the nations work force would be on board. Why would not 100% be on board?)
* see as a good thing then by many conservatives I should say.
Teko, when I was in college in the 80's, unions were not seen as a good thing. This is not new. It was a debate back then and I took part of a mock debate on my college campus. (ha ha, for the UNION side. Was liberal until I actually started working).
I'm republican.... I've disliked unions and what they do (don't do) since the 1980's, before I ever "pulled the lever". I think the others here that are not for unions gathered their opinions well before 2010, but I won't speak for them.
You are right though about not working for someone that is a union shop, but that completely depends on where you live and what you want to do for a living.
That completely coincides for the statement above regarding "working on concrete" and "working on loading ramps". If you do not want to stand on your feet all day and do manual labor, get a desk job. I am sure there is a wonderful union that would be happy to take your monthly dues and "represent" you when you need them most.
I was asked if I wanted to join the laborers union back in the early 80's. I asked what the benefits were, and when I told them that I negotiated an adequate salary complete with performance based incentives and a schedule that was complimentary to the life style I wanted to lead, the guy became very frustrated. He told me that I didn't get it, so I asked him what he (the union) would do for me.... he walked away.
That was my first and only personal interaction with a union rep. It was all I needed.
You are right though about not working for someone that is a union shop, but that completely depends on where you live and what you want to do for a living.
That completely coincides for the statement above regarding "working on concrete" and "working on loading ramps". If you do not want to stand on your feet all day and do manual labor, get a desk job. I am sure there is a wonderful union that would be happy to take your monthly dues and "represent" you when you need them most.
I was asked if I wanted to join the laborers union back in the early 80's. I asked what the benefits were, and when I told them that I negotiated an adequate salary complete with performance based incentives and a schedule that was complimentary to the life style I wanted to lead, the guy became very frustrated. He told me that I didn't get it, so I asked him what he (the union) would do for me.... he walked away.
That was my first and only personal interaction with a union rep. It was all I needed.
No argument about the need for change... I think we all agree on that.
It is a matter of keeping in place the necessary safeguards without the abuse of power on either end. :)
It is a matter of keeping in place the necessary safeguards without the abuse of power on either end. :)
My personal issue with Unions is how powerful they have become, and there is just so much blatant abuse of that power. I would have no issue if their areas of focus were ensuring members were treated fairly (safe working conditions, fair and equal pay, etc). That was the intent when they started.
Problem I have is that they DO protect those that shouldn't be protected. Bad teachers (I have huge respect for teachers, but there are some bad ones out there), demanding more money then a company can afford to pay and stay in business, with the threat of walking off the job if it doesn't happen. The huge political clout they now seem to have. For me, those are abuses. If they stayed true to their initial reason for beginning, and were fair about it, I'd have no problem at all with them. I just find they are less about negotiating with a company, and more about demanding, and so many companies have no choice in the matter if they want to stay in business. It's wrong.
Problem I have is that they DO protect those that shouldn't be protected. Bad teachers (I have huge respect for teachers, but there are some bad ones out there), demanding more money then a company can afford to pay and stay in business, with the threat of walking off the job if it doesn't happen. The huge political clout they now seem to have. For me, those are abuses. If they stayed true to their initial reason for beginning, and were fair about it, I'd have no problem at all with them. I just find they are less about negotiating with a company, and more about demanding, and so many companies have no choice in the matter if they want to stay in business. It's wrong.
Ah, Teko, your brilliance never dims! Thanks for that.
(I am serious)
(I am serious)
I have noticed that this subject of unions as well as taxes and a few other things go right down party lines. Any one else notice that? There was not a problem with the unions until the Republicans came out in 2010 with the intent on busting them. In fact, you never really heard of the hooplah till then, I wonder why that is? If you don't like the union, then like someone said about Walmart. By all means, don't work for a company that has one! See, simple solution. I settled it!
I don't think we are in real disagreement on this. Maybe it is a matter of dismantling unions as they are now and coming back with a new model that works more or less for everyone.
Here I go dreaming again, lol.
For me it is kind of like government, so many bad things happen in the name of it, but we don't want to give it up, we need the laws, the support and advocacy and mostly we need safeguards against abuse of power, including the power of a corrupt union.
I am so new to all this, I won't presume to have answers, but it is good to hash it out and think about it, I think.
Here I go dreaming again, lol.
For me it is kind of like government, so many bad things happen in the name of it, but we don't want to give it up, we need the laws, the support and advocacy and mostly we need safeguards against abuse of power, including the power of a corrupt union.
I am so new to all this, I won't presume to have answers, but it is good to hash it out and think about it, I think.
"You mentioned above that the union will "support" people if they are being treated unfairly.... I've watched that not happen to union dues paying members."
I paid union dues for 6 years, before I retired, and as I stated in another thread, when I was treated unfairly, I was told by the union rep, that there was nothing they could do about it. I even got ragged on by the union rep for going with another employee, who also had a grievance, to see the human resources director, without a union rep present......... after the rep had said they couldn't help us... How much sense does that make?
And yes, we watched people who were lazy and/or incompetent get protection from the union, while many who really needed/deserved protection didn't get it.
I'm not saying that unions are ALL bad; simply that they do need to be revamped, and they have to understand that companies can't continue to pay higher and higher wages, or provide more and more benefits, without eventually, suffering. They also need to realize that when a company isn't doing very well, that belts may need to be tightened (wages/benefits curtailed), until things pick up again. We all have to learn to do that when circumstances warrant.
Safety issues are always a concern, but I do feel sometimes, that those go by the wayside, because companies are forced to pay the ever increasing wages/benefits and can't always afford to address safety issues.
Totally agree that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but we sure do need to provide some fresh water.
I paid union dues for 6 years, before I retired, and as I stated in another thread, when I was treated unfairly, I was told by the union rep, that there was nothing they could do about it. I even got ragged on by the union rep for going with another employee, who also had a grievance, to see the human resources director, without a union rep present......... after the rep had said they couldn't help us... How much sense does that make?
And yes, we watched people who were lazy and/or incompetent get protection from the union, while many who really needed/deserved protection didn't get it.
I'm not saying that unions are ALL bad; simply that they do need to be revamped, and they have to understand that companies can't continue to pay higher and higher wages, or provide more and more benefits, without eventually, suffering. They also need to realize that when a company isn't doing very well, that belts may need to be tightened (wages/benefits curtailed), until things pick up again. We all have to learn to do that when circumstances warrant.
Safety issues are always a concern, but I do feel sometimes, that those go by the wayside, because companies are forced to pay the ever increasing wages/benefits and can't always afford to address safety issues.
Totally agree that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but we sure do need to provide some fresh water.
I've got no clue as to how you'd reorganize unions. I don't think they are anything like they were in the early days. I don't think they represent all of the people, all of the time.
You're kind of bathing the baby in a cesspool.... I don't think you throw the baby out, but you'd damned well better get your water elsewhere and make sure the kids shots are up to date after that.
You mentioned above that the union will "support" people if they are being treated unfairly.... I've watched that not happen to union dues paying members. I watched one of the strongest believers in a union drop his wonderful impression of them when they told a whole shift of people to go pound sand. (By the way, every boss I mentioned above that got fired was male, over the age of 50, and were largely replaced by women (90% were women) and the unions wouldn't touch it......
People have to lawyer up all of the time. Look how litigious our society is... In the work place, it's no different. And the union did their part. They helped establish so many important things. But, if they won't support everyone equally, if they won't oust their bad eggs (and by keeping the bad eggs they are giving the real workers a bad name) I think they are in it for the money only. Just my opinion.....
You're kind of bathing the baby in a cesspool.... I don't think you throw the baby out, but you'd damned well better get your water elsewhere and make sure the kids shots are up to date after that.
You mentioned above that the union will "support" people if they are being treated unfairly.... I've watched that not happen to union dues paying members. I watched one of the strongest believers in a union drop his wonderful impression of them when they told a whole shift of people to go pound sand. (By the way, every boss I mentioned above that got fired was male, over the age of 50, and were largely replaced by women (90% were women) and the unions wouldn't touch it......
People have to lawyer up all of the time. Look how litigious our society is... In the work place, it's no different. And the union did their part. They helped establish so many important things. But, if they won't support everyone equally, if they won't oust their bad eggs (and by keeping the bad eggs they are giving the real workers a bad name) I think they are in it for the money only. Just my opinion.....
I have no problem with major overhaul and reorganization of unions. I just don't want the 'baby thrown out with the bath water', as OH says.
Back in the 80's, there was a massive firing at the Las Vegas Hilton. (Formerly called "The International") An entire shift of male pit bosses, floor managers, and cage bosses were fired. The first place these individuals went was to their union. The union was jerking these guys around, like they didn't know who they were.
It became obvious after a week of no calls back from union reps that these individuals were going to have to "lawyer up" in order to get their rights protected.....
It became obvious after a week of no calls back from union reps that these individuals were going to have to "lawyer up" in order to get their rights protected.....
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