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Dangers of Alpha Lipoic Acid IV Therapy !
Here is just one of the many dangers of ALA IV therapy:

This is from Pubmed which is considered to be very trustworthy by the medical community.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19616616

"We conclude that large doses of lipoic acid displace sulfhydryls from binding sites, resulting in depletion of serum cysteine, but also pose a methylation burden with severe depletion of liver S-adenosylmethionine and massive release of S-adenosylhomocysteine. These changes may have previously unrecognized deleterious (harmful) effects that should be investigated in both human disease and experimental models"
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Can you tell us the dose of the IV's and if you are on naltrexone? I have an appt with Berkson in January.
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1717054 tn?1316716253
This thread was started in March of 2010.  Lots of new info can emerge between then and now. Nonetheless, no matter where you stand on ALA's alleged benefits, no one can deny the improvements many say they have attained through this therapy.  In all due respect, nygirl, I do not believe this is a dead and buried subject.  It is worth it to talk about so that people feel there are real options for THEM.  ( I just found out about Berkson last night on this forum and I only live about 40  miles from him)  I am scheduled to start tx in a few weeks.  I already have the drugs in my home for the triple therapy.  I would be lying if I told you all that I did not consider changing my mind about tx and seeing if he can help me.

HOWEVER, and to me, this is the most important thing about this whole discussion.  Based on all that I have read on this thread this is what one has to consider...

Berkson ( or ALA) does NOT claim to cure.  It appears ( it only appears) that these IV's and LDN's  he prescribes can possibly keep HCV at bay, where one can have this virus and not suffer severe liver damage.  Obviously, this is a lifetime regimen ( or at least that is what I have surmised)
SOC , now the triple drug therapy, can cure if we are one of the lucky ones.  We may go thru hell getting there, and possible thereafter, but HCV can be gone forever.

People with HCV who do not show much, if any, elevated liver enzymes in their blood work, or dont' have high VL, or show no fibrosis yet, or who have not had HCV very long,  may want to try the Berkson,ALA way, while they wait for better tx options. Buy a little time.  
I was one ( and basically still am) of those people and I sure wish i would have known about him when I first learned I had this virus.  I don't believe for a minute that what he does makes any of this any worse.
For me, now, as much as I do not want to go through what those of you that are now being treated and have been treated go through.....I really would like to get rid of this, once and for all, so i will go through the INF/Riba/Incivek tx.
If I don't become SVR after this tx, you better believer I will be in Berkson's office, just as soon as possible.
So... in conclusion. knowledge is power.  We all make our individual choices, but we need to know what's out there in order to make them. We also need to very diligent in our research, make no mistake.
  
This is not a dead conversation at all, IMHO.
Best wishes to everyone!
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707563 tn?1455827280
Please disagree respectfully.  There's no reason for anyone to get insulting.  

Thanks,
Emily
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179856 tn?1333550962
Em didn't MH vette this out and say "Buyer Beware".....so that's not really being insulting it's just trying to tell new people that have not read this 100x already that they should not automatically believe things just because they read them on the internet.

"It appears ( it only appears) that these IV's and LDN's  he prescribes can possibly keep HCV at bay, where one can have this virus and not suffer severe liver damage. "

And where is that study data published - I think we've asked that respectfully many times before and never gotten an answer.  If this were true every single one of us stage 3 and over would have taken this stuff - heck even stage 1 then we'd never ever have to do treatment........that would be awesome wouldn't it?
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just to compare how ridiculous this study can be, 16liters of water in a day can kill.....too bad drinking too much water really killed a man in 2007.
dont drink water please it is dangerous....

http://www.corriere.it/salute/11_luglio_19/aquaholica-inghilterra-sedici-litri-quotidiani_2882e8ea-b206-11e0-962d-4929506ed0a9.shtml

inside the article....
It is not the first case of "water intoxication" or hyponatremia: an athlete who in 2007 took part in the London Marathon has had cerebral complications caused by excessive intake of water and died.
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1717054 tn?1316716253
Before I say anything else...I just want to remind you that for those of us that are new to this site, this is not old news to us. You may have been down this road 100's of times,and formed your opinions. Now it is time for us to do the same. I am not believing what I read on the internet, just the people that have been Dr B's patients, AND what I have learned about ALA before I ever knew Dr B existed and treated in this manner. For that reason, I find this all very interesting.
I would like to clarify my comment about "it appears that these methods used by Dr. B can  help keep HCV at bay" is strictly based on personal testimonies.  Of course we need to take them with a grain of salt. I would like to know who was treated for HCV and did not respond in any way.
However, I happen to believe the recent post of drdigger above.  I see no reason why he would flat out lie about his results with this Dr. B.  It defies logic. He travels every 90 days and stays for 2 weeks for the IV therapy.  Look at his results.

My intention here is not to start an argument or to raise some feathers. I don't like arguments. I only believe that we should be open minded.  It's no secret that western doctors are not real into alternative or CAM medicine.  However, it seems more and more that some of these methods , in many areas of medicine, are proving to be effective.  There is a time and a place for both types of medicine.

To nygirl....I totally understand your skeptisism and your statement is not taken lightly.
You said.....  
If this were true every single one of us stage 3 and over would have taken this stuff - heck even stage 1 then we'd never ever have to do treatment........that would be awesome wouldn't it?

Yes, it would be awesome if we never had to treat and it would be awesome if everyone st 3 and over could get better.  But, isn't that what is exactly happening, for some people? Re-read drdigger's  post.  Again, why would he lie about this?  Ask him to tell you more about it, which is what i have done.  We all need to educate ourselves and that is what i am trying to do.
What about all the pubmed articles that mhudnall  posted above on March 31 2010 at 12:26am that validated the positive effects of ALA on Hep C?  Are we supposed to simply disregard all of those as bogus?  Just questions that I contemplate as I try educate myself.
Don't get me wrong...my mind is not made up and  my research is just starting.  If, down the road, I find bad information about any of this, i will share that too.

Considering the success his patients have had however, i want to throw a question out there....What would you have to loose, if you were to try it?  (take the money out of it for now, because I really don't know what the charges are.  I was told that he takes insurance and medicare)  How would you ever know how it would help you if you never tried it?  Which leads to my whole point about options and being somewhat open minded, especially when SOC fails.
I don't see this as an either/or situation. I am even wondering if the two protocols could be combined together for an even better SVR rate?  Hopefully more studies will be done on all of this, for all of our benefits!
Peace,
Debbie
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707563 tn?1455827280
Hi -

Yes, it's buyer beware, but we advise that of all our communities, in a way.  None of our member communities have an expert posting in it, and we suggest that all members contact their doctors before undertaking any treatment regimen for anything.  Each person has a different medical history, and that needs to be taken into context.

That said, let's remember that we are a medical info and support site, and making sarcastic comments that insult someone else's beliefs, experiences, or curiosity about a treatment plan (or anything, for that matter) is not supportive.  It's fair to show the good, bad and ugly about a treatment, but it isn't ever appropriate to get sarcastic and insulting.

Emily
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901131 tn?1293748153
Amen Emily
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As for the ALA treatment I have commented enough on this OLD news. For the life of me I don't understand why someone would want to do ALA IV treatments when new drugs just came out that offers a 70%+ cure rate.

Wish you and anyone else who feels desperate enough to try this the best.

Good luck.
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     ALA is not patentable and therefore the pharmiceutical companies hate it.  It is also cheap another reason they hate it.  Personally if the FDA does not have much good to say about it, all the better.  The FDA has approved  and continues to approve drugs that are killing us every day.  I have had wonderful success with ALA IV treatment and have talked to many others who have as well.  You think it is taking advantage of people and costing them thousands.  It absolutely pales by comparison to radiation and chemotherapy which has never been double blind tested and is approved by the FDA and coincidentally is big pharmaceutical's biggest money maker.

     Dr. Berkson has been doing this for years with plenty of success.  Expand your beliefs beyond those of the drug companies and the FDA and do some investigation yourself, I did and I am so happy I decided to have Dr. Berkson treat me.  By the way one ALA IV costs $125.00 hardly what you would call a ripoff.  Go to your Doctor and have him prescribe you some extremely overpriced drugs and enjoy the side effects, all the while never being cured.  The only thing that can heal you is your body itself, ALA aids the body in healing itself, synthetic drugs can't do that.  Ya, it's that simple!  And the Insurance companies, well they would be very wise to start approving some of these alternative therapies like ALA and LDN, they would save enormous amounts of money.  Between the FDA, USDA and Insurance companies there is little question as to why everyone is sick and health care costs are out of control.  Besides allowing our food supply to become so toxic and presribing drugs like candy is it really any wonder cancer, heart disease, obesity and any number of autoimmune disease have exploded in our so called modern world.

Dr. Berkson is a PHD and an MD, his  knowledge far exceeds that of most Doctors.  He should be praised for thinking outside the box and helping so many people for decades.  We need more like him!
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233616 tn?1312790796
I think somewhere in the middle lies sanity.

It's well known that the right amounts of the right lipids can aide digestion, slow down the absoption rate of carbs, lower the rate of oxidation and cell death, improve cell wall structur and a host of other things.

It's also well known that too many or the wrong lipids can feed tumor cells, and too much fat  leads to a whole host of issues.

I think Berkson is questioned because of the simple mechanics....if we were supposed to get IV's of lipids why weren't we born with a portal for it?
Besides which, you can absorb ALA easily enough for far less cash.

There are a whole host of lipids and foods that we need for health but where too much will kill us. Take vitamin D and protein as just 2 of many such examples.

The point is, overkill can cause issues, and even the most brilliant doctors forget that sometimes.  A good example was when Linus Pauling insisted on IV's of Vitamin C to treat polio...well C does reduce virus, but the levels he used destoyed kidneys.  The point is to not get so enamored with any substance or new treatment to the point where we stop noticing that there are pros and cons with any therapy.  
I had to laugh, they actually had a doc on an episode of House try to return to Paulings methods...so all these fashions have their day, and whats out may come in again.

I'm not saying some oral ALA isn't good for you, just that hooking up to any substance that won't kill this virus but can upset a delicate balance bears examination.

If you look at a whole host of substances, proteins fats, salt, take potassium as an example...even a 1 or 2% change in blood levels is serious. So do you really want to raise your ALA levels 30% above what any normal human or animal would have in their blood?
That may be asking for trouble.
Plus, Berkson has not produced anyone who has SVR'd.
The only thing to cause this virus to disappear so far has been the very unpleasant treatment regime.
You got that right, it is unpleasant, but at least the virus is gone and doesn't continue to ravage the body.   To each their own I guess.

I'm of the mind that the proof must exist as results before we jump on any band wagon.
Benny Hinn has never produced one documented healed person either.
You don't ask the healer by their words to prove their work, you ask for documented proof...i.e. labs, labs of real people who can be reached and have it verified that they actually were healed..

I just heard of a study where just speaking soothingly while feeding someone made them metabolize differently. Just calming folks down can reduce viral loads, just thinking we are doing something for a disease can make it better, it's known as the placebo effect when something, anything is given, that a person thinks will help often does.

However there are plenty of folks in the graveyards who had sheep fat and laitrile injections...I wonder what they would say to us now.

mb

mb
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I don't have a citation, but I read in a medical journal that although SOC can produce a sustained viral response, that's not the whole story. On further investigation, researchers found that while blood shows viral clearance, occult viruses persist in the liver and the brain.

Maybe that's what Dr. Berkson meant when he said HC can't be cured.
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Maybe but I doubt it. Easier to believe that it is all about $$$. When dr berkson says no one can be cured it is because his therapy cannot do that. His therapy has never killed the non-occult virus to a point of "UNDETECTED" on a PCR test.... And never will.

Yes I have seen studies and see some truth in it. Unfortunately all we have at this point are very accurate PCR tests. And it sure feels great to read "UNDETECTABLE" on test result. What everyone with HCV is striving for and will take harsh drugs for.

As discussed on this forum many times, the ONLY CURE for HCV is the conventional drugs, Interferon, Ribavirin, and one of the new drugs, Telaprevir / Boceprevir.


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my Mama had HCV for 33 years when she discovered her sickness. Frequent headaches, fainting, aching joints, colds/flu were the most common symptoms she had.
She was diagnosed with fatty liver as well (ultrasound)
ALT levels was elevated 180 - 200
Viral load 400,000

After the shock we received, we tried out different herbal combinations, dandelion, milk thistle, licorice etc...

I read about ALA in a HCV book which included several other alternative treatments. Over the past year, Mama consumed 2 packs ALA, 100 tablets each (600mg).

ALT dropped to 60, all symptoms disappeared (headache, fatigue, joint pain). Mama is very happy, likes to greet the Sun and eat healthy, produces high quality regular stool, likes to dance Gamgam style. Oh, last time we checked, Viral load increased to 1,500,000. Do we care? not at all

We did not know about Dr.Berkson and all about ALA,  but our resolution for 2013 is to follow the triple antioxidant treatment ALA, selenium and milk thistle.

My question, does anyone know how often one should take this treatment? Everyday throughout the year? 2 weeks bid every 3 month?

May you all get healed

    
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I used ALA everyday from  2007 when i was diagnosed with cirrhosis until 2011 when i started to treat.  i had been infected for 26 years in 2007.  it may have slowed my progressing but but the blood work including platelet count continued to show signs of progression towards liver decompensation.  and i progressively got more symptomatic prior to treatment.   there are stories about people reversing liver scarring also called fibrosis with supplements like ALA.  you might want to check out the heptech web site if it is still up.   unfortunately as we age the scarring process can rapidly accelerate and if i were in your mother's shoes i would want to know how far the scarring has progressed.  i would make an appointment with a hepatologist or a gastroenterologist that has extensive experience with this disease. in the US the most common test to determine the extent of scaring is a liver biopsy.  please understand that this board mostly deals with alleopathic treatments.  
blessings
eric
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you did not mention your mama's age.  most of us that are treating are in our 40s, 50s and 60s. i'm 57.  although there is at least one brave soul here that is treating in his 70s.  as you may have gathered from reading some of the posts here the current treatment is tough, but in 2 to 4 years there will likely be treatments that are much easier.
many blessings
eric
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you might also click on the link entitled "HepResearcher (doctor) on various topics" at the bottom of the page where you posted the question.  there are a collection of posts some of which contain info about supplements that may slow fibrosis.  HepResearcher helped formulate heptech.com products.  i never tried the products becaude the cost was too much. something like $400+ a month.

opps i misspelled allopathic in my first post.
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my mama is 57 and has supposedly got her hepc due to my birth (c-section blood transfusion).

I must say, last year mama got "Lichen planus". A couple of GPs told her it is due to lack of vitamins. She eventually did some laser treatment and was gone.

Now I understand what mistake we did, mama didn't take B-Vitamins along with ALA, hence she got depleted after consuming some 200 tablets of ALA.

The news of hepc was a shock to all of us family members. We had to scan through all kind of therapies allopathic and others.  

We went to several hepatologists and high caliber virologists. They all sing the same song, Intereferon/ribavirin and they offer no choice. When we tried to discuss with one doctor about alternative options, he rudely  told mama either you come next time and get the interferon, or don't come back.

Only one hepatologist (female) advised us against the treatment and having checked the results of all her tests, told her liver is doing 97% fine. I think the number is an oversimplified way of saying the liver function parameters are good.

The platelet count also increased from 170k to 225k. Red and White blood cells also came to normal levels, previously were low.

As for liver biopsy, I would not let anyone poke into my mama's liver as long as it is really really necessary.
We did some test, fibroscan if I am not mistaken or however it's called, some kind of proxy that highly correlates with biopsy results if not superior to. It takes some liver function parameters and uses some algorithm to come up with 0 to 1 value indicating the level of necroinflammatory severity and fibrosis, it was something like 0.35 ...  

I know the board is about Allopathic treatments. In fact, ALA probably is the first and only allopathic medication I am starting to get convinced about.

now that we filtered many information on hepc treatments conventional and non-conventional, we are about to start the triple antioxidant treatment, Sylimarin, ALA and Selenium. Previously it was like oh let's try everything all at once with tons of herbs and supplements, but was not a systematic approach.

The plan is to take ALA for 2 weeks every 2 month. I do not want her to get hooked on some miracle drug, but just boost her liver every once in a while.
Where as will keep her on Selenium and Sylmarin throughout the year (200mcg and 300 mg)

I'm not here to argue pro this or against that, but only to share my experience with this drug which undoubtedly we benefited from and would probably benefit others.

Again, we are doing it entirely independently without consulting any doctors. But probably we'll go to the nice lady doctor who advised us against interferon and share our experience with her.  

Personally, having seen the liver enzymes drop to almost normal levels, and having got rid of the hepc symptoms, it is a huge relief.

oh, by the way, one interesting observation, in the country mama lives in, although she is non insured (neither private nor public), the government pays the complete treatment costs for intereferon/ribavirin...although this same government would not buy you one cheese sandwich if you were starving in front of the parliament. What a corrupt world we live in!
Death will come to all of us sooner or later, I know my mama spent lots of nights crying alone about her ailment. I am the cause of her problem, doctors even had to remove her womb due to surgical complications, this also caused many hormonal problems to my mama which affected her health and liver status. And in her prime years, she used to loooove chocolate, I can remember the massive amounts of cadbury she used to eat, and it all piled up in her disturbed liver, add on top the high levels of unregulated DDT that was sprayed on veggies in the early 70's and 80's, all in all it is a recipe for disaster. At some point we have to contemplate on some liver flush.

I always emphasize to my mama to accept death. I even made her read Bardo Thodol to get rid of her fears. I think everytime she visited the doctor she got even more sick due to stress. Things like oh you are going to die if you don't take the treatment. I specially hate the 25 years to cirrhosis song. And when we got higher viral loads results, they put more pressure on her. They said the lower the VL the easier it is to cure you and that she is putting her life in danger by such gambling.

In 3 months I am willing to update with new results. hopefully positive ones.

  
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one things I forgot to mention, mama NEVER smoked, drank alcohol or took recreational drugs all her life. But on the other hand, she used to take quite often drugs like paracetamol or anti-depressives. Not anymore though.
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one Mistake above, was not Fibroscan what we did, but "Fibrotest"

One last thing I should mention is that my mother is very nutrition conscious (in the last 6-8 years), and I think this is helping her a lot.

her hcv Genotype is 1b.

Eric, one question, did you take ALA with Vitamin B complex?

From Dr. Burt Berkson
"...dehydrogenase complex, there are several B vitamins
that are depleted, especially thiamine and biotin. So you
really have to replace the B complex vitamins, otherwise,
you get very sick by taking lipoic acid by itself."


Also did you take  ALA, Sylimarin and Selenium together or ALA alone?

There is interesting research on Selenium role.
Here from Germany, unfortunately no results are published for free
http://prsinfo.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01355107

Free publication version from Pakistan :D  Hcv patients have lower Selenium concentration compared to healthy subjects
http://www.saudijgastro.com/article.asp?issn=1319-3767;year=2012;volume=18;issue=2;spage=106;epage=110;aulast=Khan

Silymarin speaks for itself I guess and needs no advocate.

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Eric, one question, did you take ALA with Vitamin B complex?  

yes i took a B100 and later the B-Right from Jarrow formulas.  now i get the skin flush from the large doses niacinamide or niacin,  so i don't take it anymore.  i did start taking the ALA again after the end of treatment.  i get my B's from a multi vitamin and diet.  

Also did you take  ALA, Sylimarin and Selenium together or ALA alone?  

i stopped taking sylimarin after reading a retrospective study that found that it was of no help with HCV.   i did take the ALA with Selenium.  I believe the selenium is important for the synthesis of glutathione.   i believe one of the heptech formulas was designed to increase glutathione.  i also took glutathione from setria and also acetyl-glutahione first thing in the morning.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168827802000600

i recall hepatitis researcher writing about the importance of polyenylphosphatidylcholine. i believe it is one of the few and perhaps the only supplements that has been proven through repeated biopsies in alcoholics to actually reverse liver fibrosis.  in Europe it is marketed as Essentiale Forte N.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9113278

i was fortunate to have advice from physicians and other experienced health professionals.  i don't know if any of the supplements or drugs or therapeutic phlebotomies i did actually slowed down the scaring process.   as i said in a previous post my blood work got progressively worse in the five years prior to treatment.  

the average age a which we develop cirrhosis is 65. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17355454
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554637_3
i was diagnosed with cirrhosis at 52.  i waited to treat until i had a better than 50% chance of a cure.  since i was experiencing cirrhosis prior to treatment i will have a risk of hepatoma (primary liver cancer) even if treatment is successful.  perhaps i should have tried to treat earlier.  i was first diagnosed in 1989 with non-a non-b hepatitis because of elevated transaminases and a history of transfusions.

many blessings
eric



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DrDigger,
I am 'SVR' - i.e., cleared the HCV virus - but have extensive fibrosis and some degree of early-stage compensated cirrhosis.  I am considering making the cross-country trip for an appt w/Dr Berkson.  You posted regarding a positive experience and success with his treatments.  Are you still doing well?  Would you recomend him for treatments for regression of hepatic fibrosis??
Any input or response is much appreciated.
Kind regards,
PD
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979080 tn?1323437239
Hi PD,

when you are thinking to do the Berkson ALA IV protocol how are you going to check if it will improve your fibrosis more so than it already does ?

Since you cleared the virus and if you treat your liver well it should heal itself.To what degree and how long it will take is individually different.

b
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B-
You make an excellent point.  I was primarily just thinking longer-term about what other options might be available - and am interested in getting as much feedback as possible from Dr B's patients.  Regardless of anything else, before seriously pursuing IV ALA I would first continue for another +-6 mos w/my present supplement regimen that includes PCP, silamyrin and oral ALA 600 mg twice daily.  I have recently confirmed some mild portal hypertension - and it's the symptom that most concerns me.  I still have good energy level, good sleeping pattern, normal LTFs.  Platelets are good/stable at 230K - my only blood anomaly is mild anemia (RBC 3.8).  The $64,000 Question is whether or not (with alcohol cessation last yr) with the portal hypertension and anemia - albeit both mild:  can my liver can still improve...or have I already passed the too-little-too-late  'point of no return?'
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979080 tn?1323437239
" am 'SVR' - i.e., cleared the HCV virus - but have extensive fibrosis and some degree of early-stage compensated cirrhosis"

How and when was that diagnosed  ?

Portal hypertension and platelets in the mid 200s sounds odd to me.

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766573 tn?1365170066
I don't want to de-rail this thread but I could not help but wonder. Do you mean you were SVR 10 years ago but resumed drinking and stopped in April of 2012 ~ however during that period your fibrosis (or symptoms) may have progressed? Surely the longer you stay alcohol-free would be more of a factor in healing, No?

Were you actually diagnosed with PE and Mild Anemia? I would have thought platelet count would be much lower- perhaps in the 140s (though I am sure like everything it can vary).  Further, on my last CBC the LabCorp Reference interval for RBC is 3.77 - 5.28. I am not suggesting this is entirely the case but I have drawn inaccurate conclusions when self diagnosing and I would hate to see that to anyone else.
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Idyllic, thanks for your input!

Regarding your first paragraph - yes, you are correct on all counts.

Other than the lab reference you gave, I've never seen one with normal adult male RBC as anything under 4.0.  Here is a copy/paste:

"A normal red blood cell count will vary depending on the age and sex of the person tested. The normal number for women tends to range from about 4.2-5.4 million red blood cells per microliter (million/uL). Men have a considerably higher normal range, falling between 4.7-6 million/uL. Children tend to fall somewhere in the middle of these two, and have a very narrow normal red blood cell count range of about 4.6-4.8 million/uL"

The above certainly indicates that my current RBC of 3.8 is consistent with mild anemia.  My RBC was in the 4.8 range  - and then rather sud experience??denly dropped.  If you don't mind, I would be interested:  what type of inaccurate diagnosis did you experience??
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It drives me a bit nuts that there's no edit feature!  My last sentence got botched, so I will try again...

Idyllic, thanks for your input!

Regarding your first paragraph - yes, you are correct on all counts.

Other than the lab reference you gave, I've never seen one with normal adult male RBC as anything under 4.0.  Here is a copy/paste:

"A normal red blood cell count will vary depending on the age and sex of the person tested. The normal number for women tends to range from about 4.2-5.4 million red blood cells per microliter (million/uL). Men have a considerably higher normal range, falling between 4.7-6 million/uL. Children tend to fall somewhere in the middle of these two, and have a very narrow normal red blood cell count range of about 4.6-4.8 million/uL"

The above certainly indicates that my current RBC of 3.8 is consistent with mild anemia.  My RBC was in the 4.8 range  - and then rather suddenly dropped in recent months.  If you don't mind, I would be interested:  what type of inaccurate diagnosis did you experience??
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Hey B - I always appreciate your imput.

Diagnosis this past year based upon the following:
A several yrs-old biopsy showed 'bridging fibrosis with septae' which is stage 3 extensive fibrosis...and I only went downhill from there due to drinking.
Three AshFibrosure tests during 2011-2012 scored .70, .68 and .71 - stunningly consistent results.  It's a 100-pt test - anything under .25 is normal/minimal fibrosis.  Anything over .70 is 95% probability of cirrhosis;  anything over .74 is 100% probability.  I think it's safe to say that I have SOME cirrhosis...just how extensive is unclear.  Even a biopsy today (since it samples only1/50,000 of the liver) wouldn't tell us how extensive it is. Will be seeing the doc again in a couple of months.
I have palmar erythema.  I have periodically cold hands due to diminished circulation in hands/fingers.  Hope this helps to provice a clearer picture!  I hope you're doing well these days.  Any thoughts are always welcome.
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979080 tn?1323437239
ok , than I have cirrhosis too....because I ran the FibroSure before tx
and 1 year after and it came back F4 - cirrhosis. BTW my platelets
are like yours in the 200s.
The only problems is that I have been seeing Dr. Douglas Dietrich Prof.
of Medicine @ Mt. Sinai several times before and after tx. I had approx.
6 FibrosScans done there in the course of 3 years.Diagnosis F0-F1.
I showed them the FibroSure bloodmarker test  and the responds was the test was no good. I have very little to no fibrosis and should enjoy life and I can drink alcohol in moderation....Dr`s orders.
They see patients coming in frequently with results from that test that are false. Mt. Sinai is a transplant center and they should know what they are talking about.
BTW what is your INR or Protime and Albumin ?
Also I am curious as to which values on your fibrosure were out of
normal range. Was it haptoglobin and alpha2macroglobulins or GGT etc?
You did the NASH-fibrosure for non-alcoholic liver disease maybe you should try the one for alcoholic liver disease ASH-fibrosure ...lol


b
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979080 tn?1323437239
" and I only went downhill from there due to drinking. "

How much were you drinking ?
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Thanks B - however:
My three blood tests were all the Ash (not the NASH) Fibrosure - I did take the Ash Fibrosure test that is specific to alcoholic liver disease/ALD.  I do also remember these:
INR is 1.1 - normal.  
Albumin is 4.5 g/dl - normal.
Total Bilirubin is 0.6. - normal.
GGT is 31- normal.
Fasting Glucose - 80 - normal.
I'll locate my creatine and other test numbers and P.M. them to you.

My alcohol intake escalated to approx 8-10 fl oz of 80-proof liquor daily during the last 2-3 yrs of my drinking career.  Certainly enough to wreak havoc on an already scarred liver
  
BTW I do recall that my A2M and Haptoglobin were both a bit deranged...as was my APO-A1.  Funny that you asked specifically about those first two...was there a reason??!
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979080 tn?1323437239
my labs are very similar to yours only that my GGT is lower 16.
It was in the 30s while infected and abstinent from alcohol and
60 while socially drinking while unkowningly infected.

Anyway on the FibroSure my A2Ms were high and haptoglobin low.
Everything else normal . My hepa Dr. Doulas Dietrich (he used to post
on MH years ago and also had HCV at some point and did tx )
told me to go see a hemotologist if I was worried about it but that
my liver was totally just fine. Something is stressing my reds and strenuous exercise which I enjoy can do that.

What is your AST ?

Don`t get me wrong but based on my personal experience if the Fibrosure is the only thing that says cirrhosis I would not trust it.

BTW , not everyone gets cirrhosis from drinking alcohol but daily consumption is no good.

It is what we do every day that eventually ends up killing us not so much what we do
once in while.

If I were you believing I was boderline chirrhotic and drink alcohol on a daily basis
than I would be more scared about HCC risk than fibrosis.

b


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B - i'd sent sent you a separate private msg that included my AST, ALT, etc.
Did you ever have red palms??
Did you ever have cold extremeties (esp. hands)??
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B-
continuing from the post:

Last Ash Fibrosure:
Haptoglobin was in normal range at 67.
A2M was 318 (normal is 110-276)
APO-A1 was 109 (normal is 110-180, so no biggie there).
All other Ash Fibrosure markers were within normal ranges.  
I do have AST/ALT inversion: AST of 29 and ALT of 25.  According to my doctor when AST is the higher number it's indicative of some degree of liver damage - even when both values are within normal limits.

My lipid profile is a bit abnormal:
LDL-P is high at 1400
LDL-C is high at 131
HDL-P is low at 28
HDL-C is low at 38

BUN is 14
Creatine is low-normal at 0.80

If there's any other score that's relevant just let me know - thanks,

P-
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Not so sure about the difference between the ASH FibroSure and the Nash FibroSure, but my experience was this:  I had a Fibrosure test done last year, and it had me at .77, and I was told (to my shock) that I had cirrhosis.
    My platelets were at 122, my Alt was 478 (AST 299), and the Alpha-Macroglobulin was high, at 4.3, and the Haptoglobin was low, at 26.
  I then had my first biopsy done, and was told I had grade 3 inflammation, and stage 2, fibrosis.
   I went into Tx, (genotype 1) and within 4 wks, my virus was Und, and Ast/Alt normal again. My platelets dropped hung at 90 during mid Tx, but dropped to 66 at EOT.
   At 3 months post tx, my platelets had then risen back to 122.
My guess is I actually had Stage 3, and the Tx was psushing me towards cirrhosis. I am hoping to have normal platelets at my 24 wk post test (I was  Und at 12 wks post luckily).
   But still, I wonder...are the low platelets an indication that I am cirrhotic now, or a sign that I have another (more terrifying) problem?
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979080 tn?1323437239
How long ago did you stop drinking ?
Both GGT and AST are sensitive to alcohol. Yours are within normal range
however according to my experience your GGT could be lower and your
so does your AST.

If you are going to see Dr. Berkson with normal labs like that you are
going to be one of the healthiest patients there......lol.

Regarding your cholesterol ....what does your diet look like ?
Again , when you drink alcohol that is the first thing your liver will
turn into energy . Everything else you eat while ingesting alcohol will
be turned into fat and stored and over time cause  fatty liver

Here is what I would do with that lipid profile:
NO ALCOHOL , no grains (pasta , breads, flour) , no sugar , no omega 6
fats (vegetable oils)
Instead try to get your carbohydrates mostly form vegetables , your
fats from butter,olive oil, coconut oil (saturated fats are ok even healthy in moderation) , protein from poulty , fish , meat. Nothing processed and
take about 1-3 gs/day of high quality Omega3s (fish oil)
Add to that an exercise routine and your lipid profile will turn around.
If you do cardio exercise it should also better circulation and maybe
help with your palms.

How high are your triglycerides ?

Personally so far I don`t see any reason why you need to spend $$$ in ALA Iv`s.

b




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979080 tn?1323437239
Your platelets are the same shortly after tx as they were before tx.
INF messes with your bone marrow where platelets are produced
which is why they often drop during tx.
I would expect your platelet count to improve now that the virus is
gone and your liver can heal.It takes time.

b
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766573 tn?1365170066
It is what we do every day that eventually ends up killing us not so much what we do once in while.
___________________

Amen ~ very profound
Hope you don't mind if I borrow that expression
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Thanks again to you both for your input!

B, I stopped drinking > six months ago.  My GGT has been trending down - last two tests were 38 and then 31.
Serum ferritin also trending down - on same test dates 160, then 120.
Many thanks for the dietary tips, which I'm in the process of 'perfecting'!
As for my triglycerides?..I don't know, but will research and reply further - thanks!
No Dr Berkson for me, at least not anytime soon.  I already do an oral supplementation that includes the recommended amt of ALA (600 mg/day) -
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Thanks again to you both for your input!

B, I stopped drinking > six months ago.  My GGT has been trending down - last two tests were 38 and then 31.
Serum ferritin also trending down - on same test dates 160, then 120.
Many thanks for the dietary tips, which I'm in the process of 'perfecting'!
As for my triglycerides?..I don't know, but will research and reply further - thanks!
No Dr Berkson for me, at least not anytime soon.  I already do an oral supplementation that includes the recommended amt of ALA (600 mg/day) -
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979080 tn?1323437239
I predict your GGT will drop further and so will your AST but of course
I have been wrong before......lol.

Congrats on stopping the alcohol !

BTW , alcohol depletes vit Bs  and ALA uses it too so you should
take a good Vit B complex . I would test Vit B12 , Folic Acid and Vit D
with your next bloodwork.

b
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Thanks B - will do.  BTW I also take vitamin B-complex and vitamin D w/my daily supplements...
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   I did my ALA and Selenium, with folic acid, and vitamin E. I also did NAC and s-AME, but more sporadically then the first four supplements I mentioned.
    I also did a TON of green tea, in all forms:  gun powder green, Jasmine, Macha tea, etc.  I did this for at least two yrs prior to me Treating.
   I did end up getting worse though, with my AST and ALT both tripling in lab #'s.  My biopsy showed my infalmmation at stage 3, and my fibrosis at stage 2.  Oh, I also took vitamin D3 with the supplement cocktail. I feel like I may have cleared the virus quicker (in 4 weeks of just SOC, prior to the Victrelis beginning) because I was up on my vitamins. I also did large amounts of chewable vitamin C, as in about 2000 mgs a day.
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B-
Replying to your query, my triglycerides are apparently okay at 74.
However my LDL is 'borderline high' and HDL is 'borderline low.'  Will be re-testing everything in a few weeks -
P-
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Hi I'm Craig, I developed Hep C in 1972 from needles drug use. I'm  a 55 yr old grandpa, with a background in Tool&Die design and making thereof . In Jan. of 2011 I had a gall bladder removed and they took a piece of my Liver and with pictures show advanced Cir stage5 hardening of the liver, HepC Geno type 1. In Aug. of 2011, I did the triple drug therapy for 12 weeks, with No Detec of virus .At week 14 with the 2, interfer and Riba I developed Dbl Pnumonia a severe strain bacterialy. After the 9 days in ICU drug induced flatline , I could nether move my legs or arms,after 9 weeks including therapy I came home in Jan. 28,2012 .
  I found out abot the triple therapy ALA, Silymarin, and Selenium, from a newsletter from Dr. Whitaker. To which I had High Hopes
  After reasearching ,I found out about OZONE therapy. I found a M.D. in Indy who did this prtocol. I also found out from him that my vitamin levels where very low. After 4 months of wekly visits using vita IV's and Ozone ,I started to regain my health. But not at the level I wanted.
  Then with the help of a clinic in Mansfield OH, the Get Well Center,I did a toxic cleanse which gave me back my strength in my legs(80%) and renewed my health to a remembered time prior to the surgury. I am  waiting for the blood tests for my Viral load. To which I did a steady diet of 3 times a week of Blood Ozone ,Peroxide, and 2 times a week of Vit. C and Nutritional IV therapies. This is all out of my shallow pocket.
  Will keep you Updated.
  
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You must be a doctor! Because doctors don't cure diseases they treat symptoms! I've cured ulcertive colitis & crohn's disease and they were said to be incurable by what? Oh yeah a doctor actually 5 doctors to be exact! They all wanted to give my wife asocol which made her throw up all the time! So they gave her something for that which gave her headaches so they gave her somethinf for her headaches! Next thing I know she was on 23 different meds for ulcers in her colon! It later developed into crohns and then they wanted to remove her intestines and out in a colostumy bag! I took her off the meds and put her on a strict diet! 2 weeks later she had no symptoms! 6 months later the doctor said there were NO visible signs! But swore she still had it because it just doesn't go away! 3years later she is not on any kind of diet wejust eat right and she never had a symptom again! If I went by what webmd or pubmed says she would still be lliving with these diseases!
Just remember every cell you have in your body was built by what you put into it! So if there's disease in your body you put it there! And you can take it out!
Disease can't live in a healthy body!
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Sorry but you missed the whole point of this thread. Glad your wife is feeling better but has nothing to do with this thread unless she was treated intravenously ALA.
Best of luck
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Disease can't live in a healthy body!
.--------------------------------------

Please be good enough to copy and paste all peer-reviewed reasearch papers and/ or studies to reflect this opinion for members perusal.

Thx...

Will
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4670047 tn?1375734001
Thank you for your response to that "statement". I was somewhat offended by it. I think of the people on here struggling to make it day by day. Ouch!  Thank again!
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