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Dangers of Alpha Lipoic Acid IV Therapy !

Here is just one of the many dangers of ALA IV therapy:

This is from Pubmed which is considered to be very trustworthy by the medical community.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19616616

"We conclude that large doses of lipoic acid displace sulfhydryls from binding sites, resulting in depletion of serum cysteine, but also pose a methylation burden with severe depletion of liver S-adenosylmethionine and massive release of S-adenosylhomocysteine. These changes may have previously unrecognized deleterious (harmful) effects that should be investigated in both human disease and experimental models"
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4670047 tn?1375730401
Thank you for your response to that "statement". I was somewhat offended by it. I think of the people on here struggling to make it day by day. Ouch!  Thank again!
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Avatar universal

Disease can't live in a healthy body!
.--------------------------------------

Please be good enough to copy and paste all peer-reviewed reasearch papers and/ or studies to reflect this opinion for members perusal.

Thx...

Will
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Avatar universal
Sorry but you missed the whole point of this thread. Glad your wife is feeling better but has nothing to do with this thread unless she was treated intravenously ALA.
Best of luck
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Avatar universal
You must be a doctor! Because doctors don't cure diseases they treat symptoms! I've cured ulcertive colitis & crohn's disease and they were said to be incurable by what? Oh yeah a doctor actually 5 doctors to be exact! They all wanted to give my wife asocol which made her throw up all the time! So they gave her something for that which gave her headaches so they gave her somethinf for her headaches! Next thing I know she was on 23 different meds for ulcers in her colon! It later developed into crohns and then they wanted to remove her intestines and out in a colostumy bag! I took her off the meds and put her on a strict diet! 2 weeks later she had no symptoms! 6 months later the doctor said there were NO visible signs! But swore she still had it because it just doesn't go away! 3years later she is not on any kind of diet wejust eat right and she never had a symptom again! If I went by what webmd or pubmed says she would still be lliving with these diseases!
Just remember every cell you have in your body was built by what you put into it! So if there's disease in your body you put it there! And you can take it out!
Disease can't live in a healthy body!
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Avatar universal
Hi I'm Craig, I developed Hep C in 1972 from needles drug use. I'm  a 55 yr old grandpa, with a background in Tool&Die design and making thereof . In Jan. of 2011 I had a gall bladder removed and they took a piece of my Liver and with pictures show advanced Cir stage5 hardening of the liver, HepC Geno type 1. In Aug. of 2011, I did the triple drug therapy for 12 weeks, with No Detec of virus .At week 14 with the 2, interfer and Riba I developed Dbl Pnumonia a severe strain bacterialy. After the 9 days in ICU drug induced flatline , I could nether move my legs or arms,after 9 weeks including therapy I came home in Jan. 28,2012 .
  I found out abot the triple therapy ALA, Silymarin, and Selenium, from a newsletter from Dr. Whitaker. To which I had High Hopes
  After reasearching ,I found out about OZONE therapy. I found a M.D. in Indy who did this prtocol. I also found out from him that my vitamin levels where very low. After 4 months of wekly visits using vita IV's and Ozone ,I started to regain my health. But not at the level I wanted.
  Then with the help of a clinic in Mansfield OH, the Get Well Center,I did a toxic cleanse which gave me back my strength in my legs(80%) and renewed my health to a remembered time prior to the surgury. I am  waiting for the blood tests for my Viral load. To which I did a steady diet of 3 times a week of Blood Ozone ,Peroxide, and 2 times a week of Vit. C and Nutritional IV therapies. This is all out of my shallow pocket.
  Will keep you Updated.
  
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Avatar universal
B-
Replying to your query, my triglycerides are apparently okay at 74.
However my LDL is 'borderline high' and HDL is 'borderline low.'  Will be re-testing everything in a few weeks -
P-
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
   I did my ALA and Selenium, with folic acid, and vitamin E. I also did NAC and s-AME, but more sporadically then the first four supplements I mentioned.
    I also did a TON of green tea, in all forms:  gun powder green, Jasmine, Macha tea, etc.  I did this for at least two yrs prior to me Treating.
   I did end up getting worse though, with my AST and ALT both tripling in lab #'s.  My biopsy showed my infalmmation at stage 3, and my fibrosis at stage 2.  Oh, I also took vitamin D3 with the supplement cocktail. I feel like I may have cleared the virus quicker (in 4 weeks of just SOC, prior to the Victrelis beginning) because I was up on my vitamins. I also did large amounts of chewable vitamin C, as in about 2000 mgs a day.
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Avatar universal
Thanks B - will do.  BTW I also take vitamin B-complex and vitamin D w/my daily supplements...
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979080 tn?1323433639
I predict your GGT will drop further and so will your AST but of course
I have been wrong before......lol.

Congrats on stopping the alcohol !

BTW , alcohol depletes vit Bs  and ALA uses it too so you should
take a good Vit B complex . I would test Vit B12 , Folic Acid and Vit D
with your next bloodwork.

b
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks again to you both for your input!

B, I stopped drinking > six months ago.  My GGT has been trending down - last two tests were 38 and then 31.
Serum ferritin also trending down - on same test dates 160, then 120.
Many thanks for the dietary tips, which I'm in the process of 'perfecting'!
As for my triglycerides?..I don't know, but will research and reply further - thanks!
No Dr Berkson for me, at least not anytime soon.  I already do an oral supplementation that includes the recommended amt of ALA (600 mg/day) -
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks again to you both for your input!

B, I stopped drinking > six months ago.  My GGT has been trending down - last two tests were 38 and then 31.
Serum ferritin also trending down - on same test dates 160, then 120.
Many thanks for the dietary tips, which I'm in the process of 'perfecting'!
As for my triglycerides?..I don't know, but will research and reply further - thanks!
No Dr Berkson for me, at least not anytime soon.  I already do an oral supplementation that includes the recommended amt of ALA (600 mg/day) -
Helpful - 0
766573 tn?1365166466
It is what we do every day that eventually ends up killing us not so much what we do once in while.
___________________

Amen ~ very profound
Hope you don't mind if I borrow that expression
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979080 tn?1323433639
Your platelets are the same shortly after tx as they were before tx.
INF messes with your bone marrow where platelets are produced
which is why they often drop during tx.
I would expect your platelet count to improve now that the virus is
gone and your liver can heal.It takes time.

b
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979080 tn?1323433639
How long ago did you stop drinking ?
Both GGT and AST are sensitive to alcohol. Yours are within normal range
however according to my experience your GGT could be lower and your
so does your AST.

If you are going to see Dr. Berkson with normal labs like that you are
going to be one of the healthiest patients there......lol.

Regarding your cholesterol ....what does your diet look like ?
Again , when you drink alcohol that is the first thing your liver will
turn into energy . Everything else you eat while ingesting alcohol will
be turned into fat and stored and over time cause  fatty liver

Here is what I would do with that lipid profile:
NO ALCOHOL , no grains (pasta , breads, flour) , no sugar , no omega 6
fats (vegetable oils)
Instead try to get your carbohydrates mostly form vegetables , your
fats from butter,olive oil, coconut oil (saturated fats are ok even healthy in moderation) , protein from poulty , fish , meat. Nothing processed and
take about 1-3 gs/day of high quality Omega3s (fish oil)
Add to that an exercise routine and your lipid profile will turn around.
If you do cardio exercise it should also better circulation and maybe
help with your palms.

How high are your triglycerides ?

Personally so far I don`t see any reason why you need to spend $$$ in ALA Iv`s.

b




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Avatar universal
Not so sure about the difference between the ASH FibroSure and the Nash FibroSure, but my experience was this:  I had a Fibrosure test done last year, and it had me at .77, and I was told (to my shock) that I had cirrhosis.
    My platelets were at 122, my Alt was 478 (AST 299), and the Alpha-Macroglobulin was high, at 4.3, and the Haptoglobin was low, at 26.
  I then had my first biopsy done, and was told I had grade 3 inflammation, and stage 2, fibrosis.
   I went into Tx, (genotype 1) and within 4 wks, my virus was Und, and Ast/Alt normal again. My platelets dropped hung at 90 during mid Tx, but dropped to 66 at EOT.
   At 3 months post tx, my platelets had then risen back to 122.
My guess is I actually had Stage 3, and the Tx was psushing me towards cirrhosis. I am hoping to have normal platelets at my 24 wk post test (I was  Und at 12 wks post luckily).
   But still, I wonder...are the low platelets an indication that I am cirrhotic now, or a sign that I have another (more terrifying) problem?
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Avatar universal
B-
continuing from the post:

Last Ash Fibrosure:
Haptoglobin was in normal range at 67.
A2M was 318 (normal is 110-276)
APO-A1 was 109 (normal is 110-180, so no biggie there).
All other Ash Fibrosure markers were within normal ranges.  
I do have AST/ALT inversion: AST of 29 and ALT of 25.  According to my doctor when AST is the higher number it's indicative of some degree of liver damage - even when both values are within normal limits.

My lipid profile is a bit abnormal:
LDL-P is high at 1400
LDL-C is high at 131
HDL-P is low at 28
HDL-C is low at 38

BUN is 14
Creatine is low-normal at 0.80

If there's any other score that's relevant just let me know - thanks,

P-
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Avatar universal
B - i'd sent sent you a separate private msg that included my AST, ALT, etc.
Did you ever have red palms??
Did you ever have cold extremeties (esp. hands)??
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979080 tn?1323433639
my labs are very similar to yours only that my GGT is lower 16.
It was in the 30s while infected and abstinent from alcohol and
60 while socially drinking while unkowningly infected.

Anyway on the FibroSure my A2Ms were high and haptoglobin low.
Everything else normal . My hepa Dr. Doulas Dietrich (he used to post
on MH years ago and also had HCV at some point and did tx )
told me to go see a hemotologist if I was worried about it but that
my liver was totally just fine. Something is stressing my reds and strenuous exercise which I enjoy can do that.

What is your AST ?

Don`t get me wrong but based on my personal experience if the Fibrosure is the only thing that says cirrhosis I would not trust it.

BTW , not everyone gets cirrhosis from drinking alcohol but daily consumption is no good.

It is what we do every day that eventually ends up killing us not so much what we do
once in while.

If I were you believing I was boderline chirrhotic and drink alcohol on a daily basis
than I would be more scared about HCC risk than fibrosis.

b


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Avatar universal
Thanks B - however:
My three blood tests were all the Ash (not the NASH) Fibrosure - I did take the Ash Fibrosure test that is specific to alcoholic liver disease/ALD.  I do also remember these:
INR is 1.1 - normal.  
Albumin is 4.5 g/dl - normal.
Total Bilirubin is 0.6. - normal.
GGT is 31- normal.
Fasting Glucose - 80 - normal.
I'll locate my creatine and other test numbers and P.M. them to you.

My alcohol intake escalated to approx 8-10 fl oz of 80-proof liquor daily during the last 2-3 yrs of my drinking career.  Certainly enough to wreak havoc on an already scarred liver
  
BTW I do recall that my A2M and Haptoglobin were both a bit deranged...as was my APO-A1.  Funny that you asked specifically about those first two...was there a reason??!
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979080 tn?1323433639
" and I only went downhill from there due to drinking. "

How much were you drinking ?
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979080 tn?1323433639
ok , than I have cirrhosis too....because I ran the FibroSure before tx
and 1 year after and it came back F4 - cirrhosis. BTW my platelets
are like yours in the 200s.
The only problems is that I have been seeing Dr. Douglas Dietrich Prof.
of Medicine @ Mt. Sinai several times before and after tx. I had approx.
6 FibrosScans done there in the course of 3 years.Diagnosis F0-F1.
I showed them the FibroSure bloodmarker test  and the responds was the test was no good. I have very little to no fibrosis and should enjoy life and I can drink alcohol in moderation....Dr`s orders.
They see patients coming in frequently with results from that test that are false. Mt. Sinai is a transplant center and they should know what they are talking about.
BTW what is your INR or Protime and Albumin ?
Also I am curious as to which values on your fibrosure were out of
normal range. Was it haptoglobin and alpha2macroglobulins or GGT etc?
You did the NASH-fibrosure for non-alcoholic liver disease maybe you should try the one for alcoholic liver disease ASH-fibrosure ...lol


b
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Avatar universal
Hey B - I always appreciate your imput.

Diagnosis this past year based upon the following:
A several yrs-old biopsy showed 'bridging fibrosis with septae' which is stage 3 extensive fibrosis...and I only went downhill from there due to drinking.
Three AshFibrosure tests during 2011-2012 scored .70, .68 and .71 - stunningly consistent results.  It's a 100-pt test - anything under .25 is normal/minimal fibrosis.  Anything over .70 is 95% probability of cirrhosis;  anything over .74 is 100% probability.  I think it's safe to say that I have SOME cirrhosis...just how extensive is unclear.  Even a biopsy today (since it samples only1/50,000 of the liver) wouldn't tell us how extensive it is. Will be seeing the doc again in a couple of months.
I have palmar erythema.  I have periodically cold hands due to diminished circulation in hands/fingers.  Hope this helps to provice a clearer picture!  I hope you're doing well these days.  Any thoughts are always welcome.
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Avatar universal
It drives me a bit nuts that there's no edit feature!  My last sentence got botched, so I will try again...

Idyllic, thanks for your input!

Regarding your first paragraph - yes, you are correct on all counts.

Other than the lab reference you gave, I've never seen one with normal adult male RBC as anything under 4.0.  Here is a copy/paste:

"A normal red blood cell count will vary depending on the age and sex of the person tested. The normal number for women tends to range from about 4.2-5.4 million red blood cells per microliter (million/uL). Men have a considerably higher normal range, falling between 4.7-6 million/uL. Children tend to fall somewhere in the middle of these two, and have a very narrow normal red blood cell count range of about 4.6-4.8 million/uL"

The above certainly indicates that my current RBC of 3.8 is consistent with mild anemia.  My RBC was in the 4.8 range  - and then rather suddenly dropped in recent months.  If you don't mind, I would be interested:  what type of inaccurate diagnosis did you experience??
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Avatar universal
Idyllic, thanks for your input!

Regarding your first paragraph - yes, you are correct on all counts.

Other than the lab reference you gave, I've never seen one with normal adult male RBC as anything under 4.0.  Here is a copy/paste:

"A normal red blood cell count will vary depending on the age and sex of the person tested. The normal number for women tends to range from about 4.2-5.4 million red blood cells per microliter (million/uL). Men have a considerably higher normal range, falling between 4.7-6 million/uL. Children tend to fall somewhere in the middle of these two, and have a very narrow normal red blood cell count range of about 4.6-4.8 million/uL"

The above certainly indicates that my current RBC of 3.8 is consistent with mild anemia.  My RBC was in the 4.8 range  - and then rather sud experience??denly dropped.  If you don't mind, I would be interested:  what type of inaccurate diagnosis did you experience??
Helpful - 0
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