Supplementary Teatments and Medical help

[mike716]

This is an attempt at starting a sort of thread dedicated to the topic of supplementary medicines and the medical supervision needed to use them correctly before, during and after antiviral treatment.

There are a lot of people with HCV who self-prescribe herbals and botanical treatments and who use dietary supplements, often without the aid of medical supervision because they can't find a doctor who will help them. I am one of those, and I am very uncomfortable with the situation.

I recently had a long exchange of posts with Marcia2202 about a Dr. Zhang, who purports to offer Chinese supplements to antiviral treatment, but who wouldn't or couldn't explain what effect they might have on the antivirals. This is no good. When this happens, we are stuck either using the sepplements without controls, or abandoning what might be helpful substances for fear they will interfere with the SOC.

Gauf, in this forum, seems to be prescribing a whole slew of supplements for himselfa and apparently has quite a lot of experience in this area, but I can't help wondering if he is getting medical support and help with things like dosing of the supplements and timing vis-a-vis his ongoing antiviral treatment, as well as questions like drug conflicts and supplement side effects.

In my opinion there is an urgent need for collaboration between us patients on the subject of supplementary medicines and herbal treatments, and a search for and sharing of information about MDs who are amenable to helping HCV patients with them.

If others besides myself are interested in this idea, let's keep this thread open and active for such information. I invite anyone who can provide it to post it here. The first question is: are there any MDs willing to help us use supplements? If so, who are they? How can we contact them?

Mike

[mike716]

Your krill oil looks pretty good. The real trouble is that it's so expensive. I checked the specs at Marcola's website, and it's only got around 150mg of each of the two Omega-3 fatty acids per dose, for $25 (if I remember correctly). My cod liver oil cost me 12 bucks and has 450 mg per serving. Both have around the same total number of servings. That makes your krill oil fatty acids 6 times more expensive than my cod liver oil fatty acids :]

I agree it's nifty that the krill oil Marcola's selling is liposomed (nice) and has some cool antioxidants (including one he claims to have discovered), but I'm just a poor American and have to watch my budget. We're not all rich here like you Europeens, ya know.

As to the deep-water angle, so oft-repeated by Marcola in his blurb, the whole thing about heavy metals like mercury is that they sink like lead (joke intended), so I'm not too sure that fishing down below is such a hot idea. And the fish oil they sell in the health food stores is all distilled, anyway, which is supposed to remove any contaminants. My bottle of Sonne's Old Fashioned Cod Liver Oil says on the label: "This product is purified by molecular distillation. We routinely test to ensure this product is free from heavy metals and pesticides." So, unless Sonne is putting one over on me, those cod were clean as a whistle before their oil got squeezed into the bottle. You think Marcola is distilling? Cause if he ain't, and your krill were lunching on mercury down at the bottom of the sea...

Happy Omega-3ing.

Mike

[mike716]

Much better than milk thistle, I think,  is IdB1016, also known as silybin phytosome. It's the extract of milk thistle's active ingredient - silybin - conjugated with PC (phosphatidylcholine) to make it absorb better into the body. Here are some companies I found that specialize in it:

http://liversupport.com/info1.htm
http://www.ultrathistle.com
http://www.phytopharmica.com

There's an Italian company that's known in Europe for producing drug-grade extracts of plants, and they might have it, too, I just haven't had time yet to check:
http://www.indena.com

And here's a webpage with a recent review of all the trials and literature so far on milk thistle, silybin, and its various preparations:
http://www.bioline.org.br/request?ph07043

(I like web-surfing :] )

Mike

[Marcia2202]

I take Antarctic Pure Krill Oil, 2 gelules every morning with breakfast. It's supposed to be better than cod liver oil, as it comes from deeper unpolluted waters and it's not as heavy as fish oil. Also it's an excellent source of vit D. I really need the vit D, as I will be stuck in Denmark for a while. Gray weather, not enough sun... dr. mercola sells a good one on his site mercola.com. I also take chlorella every day, I've done the krill oil and the chlorella for quite a long time on a regular basis. Don't know if it is okay to do during treatment, but I think it is, as chlorella is considered a food and not a supplement.

Marcia

[mike716]

Thanks for the heads up on the danger of milk thistle during therapy, Marcia. Same re SAMe, Mary4now.

I haven't started any supplements yet, but I bought a big bottle of Cod Liver Oil at the nutrition shop yesterday. It says it has a lot of EPA and DHA, the recommended Omega-3 fatty acids. Trouble is, it's also got a lot of Vitamin A in it, and I read on the LPI website that Vitamin A is toxic to the liver.

It looks like most of these nutrients/supplements have pros and cons. You get some help, but you also get something that maybe isn't too good for you. Maybe it's a toss-up.

Still, as I don't eat much fish, oily or otherwise, so I'll probably start taking a teaspoon of Cod Liver Oil a coupla times a week. I've read such a lot of good stuff about the Omega fatty acids that I can't resist.

I'm going to buy some flax seed soon, too, I think. And I'm already eating a lot of grapefruit for the naringenin, an antioxidant in the fruit that has recently been shown to block new virus secretion from hepatocytes. I like grapefruit anyway, and it has a lot of Vitamin C, which I think is good for you.

No one really knows if any of these nutrients can help. But I have the idea that there just might be a combination of them that would slow down the destruction of the liver, if not eliminate the virus. Finding that combination is the trick.

Mike

[Mary4now]

So, I have heard that milk thistle preperation can use alcohol and there was even a case of someone denied treatment because the alcohol did show up, this was in England I think.  Also Sam E can be contraindicated when using some Anti Depressants, heres the contraindication
Individuals using antidepressants, such as MAO Inhibitors, tricyclics and SSRI’s should consult a physician before using this a SAMe supplement. Individuals with Bipolar Disorder, Parkinson’s Disease, or Manic Depression should not use SAMe. Pregnant or nursing women should consult their physician before using this product.
I trust HR and have yet to apply the supplements.  

[Marcia2202]

Here it is, just found it again: It's from an Irish site www.hepatitiscsupport.co.uk

What is milk thistle?

This is a cheap, easily bought herb that contains a substance called sylimarin that is known to help the liver. It is routinely prescribed in other parts of Europe and is believed to help the liver cells regenerate themselves. Many people in the UK take milk thistle to help the liver; it is not believed to have any toxic effects. However it should never be taken while on treatment as it can speed up the liver metabolism meaning the medication doesn't last as long as it should in the bloodstream. It may also interfere with other medication such as painkillers. Always consult a qualified herbalist before starting to take herbal remedies and discuss your plans with your treatment specialist.