Aa
pharma vs holistic hep c treatment
Along comes this HVC after hitching a ride for about 25/30 years. Read lots on the net about past and present pharma and natural herbal therapys,side effects and degrees of success on both sides. Without being derogatory, I'll call'em the Suits and the Hippies.
The Suits have some very convincing momentum in the battle against HVC for us but at a cost, both financial and side effect prone with varying success. The Hippies seem to be gaining (by my observation from the failure of the Suits) some momentum with less costs, little to no side effects with claims of degrees of success. Both are advancing in their knowledge and help so I must add I praise them all for effort.
Non are going to disappear tomorrow, nor am I but here's my question finally. Has anyone given any particular, less invasive and side effect prone Hippy strategy to return to (full health HVC wise) or is this more often used as a last resort (as I seem to gleen) after the Suits have had their chance but left you less than satified with their end result.
(If they would only get their collective knowledgeable heads together for all our benefits.)
Theewoodman
The Suits have some very convincing momentum in the battle against HVC for us but at a cost, both financial and side effect prone with varying success. The Hippies seem to be gaining (by my observation from the failure of the Suits) some momentum with less costs, little to no side effects with claims of degrees of success. Both are advancing in their knowledge and help so I must add I praise them all for effort.
Non are going to disappear tomorrow, nor am I but here's my question finally. Has anyone given any particular, less invasive and side effect prone Hippy strategy to return to (full health HVC wise) or is this more often used as a last resort (as I seem to gleen) after the Suits have had their chance but left you less than satified with their end result.
(If they would only get their collective knowledgeable heads together for all our benefits.)
Theewoodman
I believe pharma is involved in development of various anti-fibrotic drugs. However, as evident from the long delay in PI approval, getting a new drug past the FDA is a HUGE task in terms of time, effort and cost. Over-the-counter agents/supplements that may slow fibrosis - eg by interfering with stellate cell activation or TGF-B signaling will never meet the threshold - they are not patentable hence profits are very limited and benefits are likely to be both mild and very hard to measure.
There's a good free-access review of options for anti-fibrotic drugs and supplements out of Harvard here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19726145
See for example the section on "Plant-derived Drugs"
Forums like this could be very useful for sharing reliable supplement vendors, supporting evidence and usage warnings. However most arguments over alternative approaches make no distinction between colloidal silver and sho-saiko-to or ppc.
There's a good free-access review of options for anti-fibrotic drugs and supplements out of Harvard here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19726145
See for example the section on "Plant-derived Drugs"
Forums like this could be very useful for sharing reliable supplement vendors, supporting evidence and usage warnings. However most arguments over alternative approaches make no distinction between colloidal silver and sho-saiko-to or ppc.
Good Evening to all and Good Evening to you, Trish. Thank you so so much about all the info you posted. The documents I am referring to are actual case studies with patients whom hep c virus became undetectable after going through a traditional chinese treatment, (honestly I haven't checked all of your sources yet so not sure if some links contain this but in any case that is what i was mentioning). I contacted my friends/chinese medicine specialists so they can let me know where to find such documents. Again, I will never claim "I know" and there is the possibility that I completely misunderstood and that if unable to get rid of the virus itself, chinese medicine in certain cases, can bring the viral load to zero. I made one of them repeat it twice at least. so, chances are I did understand correctly. All of you can count on me, as soon as i hear from them, I will communicate any and all information pertaining to the topic.
Have a great evening everybody,
nikita
Have a great evening everybody,
nikita
I wonder why pharma would not be interested in this? Cirrhosis can occur not only as a result of hepatitis C, but as a consequence of many other conditions. Couldn't they make some money off the maintenance approach? For many patients maintenance is the only option, unfortunately.
>"This is not about those that can achieve SVR with SOC, it is about those that can't. "
that says it all. As background, here's an excerpt from a recent review by Rehermann on host/virus coexistence:
"continuous recruitment and death, the lysis of some — but not all — HCV-infected hepatocytes, and the secretion of inflammatory and profibrotic cytokines such as TGF-β activate stellate cells, the primary source of extracellular matrix. The portal area expands, with thin collagen fiber extensions between layers of hepatocytes. As the disease progresses, fibrous bridges form between adjacent portal areas, and cirrhosis develops. Hepatocellular carcinoma usually arises after 2–4 decades, typically on the basis of underlying cirrhosis and possibly aided by an inherent carcinogenic potential of HCV "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19587449
Activated stellate cells, not the virus directly, are responsible for gradually transforming liver tissue to shoe leather. If you can get rid of the virus, great. If you can't it makes good sense to inbit TGF-B and stellate cell activation - that's the source of the damage. HR outlined relevant research in his posts here, principally antioxidants - but it's tough going. One thing that is certain is that there will be no pharma interest in this maintenance approach - zero stock market speculation regarding PPC sales
The irony is that those who most need help on this forum receive the least. SOC tx is no picnic but is basically straightforward - follow directions, do your time and hopefully pick up your SVR at the end of the ride. Piecing together a survival strategy if you need to continue to coexist with the virus is much harder.
that says it all. As background, here's an excerpt from a recent review by Rehermann on host/virus coexistence:
"continuous recruitment and death, the lysis of some — but not all — HCV-infected hepatocytes, and the secretion of inflammatory and profibrotic cytokines such as TGF-β activate stellate cells, the primary source of extracellular matrix. The portal area expands, with thin collagen fiber extensions between layers of hepatocytes. As the disease progresses, fibrous bridges form between adjacent portal areas, and cirrhosis develops. Hepatocellular carcinoma usually arises after 2–4 decades, typically on the basis of underlying cirrhosis and possibly aided by an inherent carcinogenic potential of HCV "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19587449
Activated stellate cells, not the virus directly, are responsible for gradually transforming liver tissue to shoe leather. If you can get rid of the virus, great. If you can't it makes good sense to inbit TGF-B and stellate cell activation - that's the source of the damage. HR outlined relevant research in his posts here, principally antioxidants - but it's tough going. One thing that is certain is that there will be no pharma interest in this maintenance approach - zero stock market speculation regarding PPC sales
The irony is that those who most need help on this forum receive the least. SOC tx is no picnic but is basically straightforward - follow directions, do your time and hopefully pick up your SVR at the end of the ride. Piecing together a survival strategy if you need to continue to coexist with the virus is much harder.
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Many people recover from treatment pretty well, some come out with what I call "souvenirs" that are permanent but manageable. For a certain segment of people, treatment has either been extremely difficult and harmful with more distressing outcomes OR it has simply failed. One fellow in my support group has tried treatment twice and it's failed and each time, he's come away from it with permanent health conditions. For him, treating a third time is a daunting proposition. It frankly pi$$es me off to no end that this is ignored by those who so fervently push treatment - these people need to be exploring alternatives to keep the impacts of existing Hep C under control. For that matter....it's also a matter of personal choice if someone reads about the side effects of interferon and ribavirin and decide that they want to avoid treatment until better options come along and see if they can live with their Hep C instead. That is THEIR choice, as long as it's an educated one. Their body, their life. They have NOT automatically sentenced themselves to death in that case if they are carefully watching and monitoring their health and are making use of alternatives to keep their fibrosis and their viral load in check. People say there is no usefulness to keeping viral load in check but that's not entirely known - what IS known is that treating with a lower viral load potentially offers more chance of success so if one is keeping options open and trying to create optimal conditions IF they do end up having to go into treatment. I would be looking to keep viral load down as a " can't hurt, might help" approach as there are new things being learned all the time about Hep C.
There is nothing CLINICALLY proven to cure Hep C other than the known drug therapy we have today. That is a fact. That does not mean that there are not other things out there that improve conditions for persons with Hep C - and potentially even improve them to the point where life expectancy and the quality of life and health prognosis is greatly enhanced for persons with Hep C. Perhaps if we explored these options more fully, it may be that CURE is not the only acceptable goal that persons with Hep C can entertain - nor should be allowed to entertain, when the current drugs are as difficult as they are with side effects that range from mild to debilitating from person to person and when the current rate of success with SOC drugs is still just under 50%. New and promising drugs on their way but still not a 100% panacea and accessibility to these drugs along with the new resistance issues to be addressed remain to unfold.
I have thyroid issues as one of my "souvenirs". I take daily medication. Easily manageable and controllable. Perhaps...just perhaps...we might find something that keeps Hep C in check enough to increase life expectancy and inhibit damage to the point where the number of liver transplants from Hep C is greatly decreased as well. That isn't going to happen if the only option people ever entertain or investigate is the current pharmaceutical treatment.
Surviving Hep C is the goal....cure is certainly a great way to achieve that. For some, that isn't going to happen and it would be nice if people can stop beating the treatment drum long enough to give a voice to those who need to discuss other options....and those who simply WANT to along the way to determining what is best for themselves in their own situation. If treatment ends up being the best option for a person, that will become clear to them and I'd rather have the freedom to explore all my options so that I can feel some comfort with the option I've settled on after all that, knowing why what I've chosen is best for ME.