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Cheating and trust
I was wondering what people thought on the subject of cheating- is there EVER a reason to do it? To me, it is about TRUST, so I have always thought that there should be NO reason or that it would ever be excused- it is a violation of another's RESPECT, to someone that 'cheater' claims to LOVE. The word has disgusted me always. However, if you knew a person, and you deemed them friendly, kind, honest..and they told you of a time they cheated on their wife, b/c there was nothing at all she said, no empathy toward him, no communication, NOTHING, and the man felt like he wasn't anything to her.. what do you think of this? He did tell the wife and was honest afterward, after feeling so low and awful. I believe at that point they were not speaking at all to each other anyway, and may have been separated, but they were still husband and wife. There was a divorce soon after, as their marriage was extremely rocky at the least anyway. But if you knew someone who was interested in you, and they told you of this 'event', but you overall trusted them, knew them to be a kind , warm person, what do you think? it is hard b/c the saying goes, once a cheater, always a cheater..:( I just wondered if anyone had any similar experiences or their thoughts on having someone you care about, who you find smart, warm and openly honest, who is interested in you, yet they told you of this part of their past? Thank you for any advice or thoughts.
"Is there ever a reason to cheat" Sure - lot of really crappy, creepy mean and lousy reasons to cheat. Are any of them good? I can't think of any. I've read that some people cheat to either destroy a marriage or to create some pressure for "change." I think this is probably as logical as throwing a bomb into a room to create "change." I think a lot of people who have been cheated on would prefer the bomb. The first fallout of cheating are the direct physical ones. Did you cheat and give me an STD? Thats a really tough one. When you find out your being cheated on it might not be the first thing you think of but it probably should be. You can also expand that with cheerful thoughts about unexpected pregnancy. Some nurses I know have told me about the reaction of some men whose wives deliver babies that are clearly not related to them. The emotional "How could you do this?" is a huge blow.
Cheating means that you aren't clued in that there is this 3rd person in your sex life so two people have an intimate connection that your clueless about. That part probably makes you feel pretty insignificant. Hopefully your connection is about trust and that part has to take a huge hit (To say the least)
Are you really asking "can a couple survive cheating?" I think its possible. I think its difficult as hell and that most of us will need a ton of help to make it work. I think talking to a therapist and or a doctor to make sure you don't crash and burn. I would check out the BAN (Beyond Affairs Network) Its helpful to be able to sit down with people who are dealing with the same problem. http://www.dearpeggy.com/lbc.html
There are a lot of good books. One I think is of great value is written for the cheater "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/Mini-Books.html
Take care of yourself!
Cheating means that you aren't clued in that there is this 3rd person in your sex life so two people have an intimate connection that your clueless about. That part probably makes you feel pretty insignificant. Hopefully your connection is about trust and that part has to take a huge hit (To say the least)
Are you really asking "can a couple survive cheating?" I think its possible. I think its difficult as hell and that most of us will need a ton of help to make it work. I think talking to a therapist and or a doctor to make sure you don't crash and burn. I would check out the BAN (Beyond Affairs Network) Its helpful to be able to sit down with people who are dealing with the same problem. http://www.dearpeggy.com/lbc.html
There are a lot of good books. One I think is of great value is written for the cheater "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/Mini-Books.html
Take care of yourself!
Hi Londres, Thank you for your time and I always value your opinion. Yes, I agree that having a friendship with him would be feasible and safe, but entering romantic dynamics would need to be taken slowly. He is 42 and has children with his ex. I told him that emotionally I am not at the venture of dating or any romance at this moment, (as you may know I am still recovering over being essentially duped and fooled with a man I talked to online for a year, who I loved, and who said he'd wait to meet me and loved me, then was a game player, and within weeks had 'love' for another, when he barely knew her..my heart feels like it is torn into so many pieces it hurts many days, and I feel a fool on other days ) . This friend I speak of I've known for 2 years, and he understands that I am not looking for 'dating' or relationships right now- he is very kind and patient about this, and he wishes for more, but at the minimum wants to remain friends. I trust him, and he is a caring friend, I just wonder at this part of the past- I have been very lenient toward people essentially taking advantage of me in many realms of my life, and while I know he would never ever try to hurt me, one cannot wonder when , even though they are being extremely honest, that one admits they were dishonest, with someone they loved. I will be careful here on , and as you say, 'tread lightly'- I never ever could even HINT at an excuse for someone cheating, but I do know this person and it is hard in this particular case, to just admonish everything, when he feels and acts remorseful for this, and wanted me to know. I think people can change their behavior as well, that is a great point you made. I truly appreciate your remarks and thoughts about this Londres, and will just take one moment at a time; what else can you do, right ? Happy New Year amiga :)
"I was wondering what people thought on the subject of cheating- is there EVER a reason to do it?".............No, there isn't any "good reason" to do it, but people do.
I really don't believe "once a cheat always a cheat" as I believe behaviors can be changed. It's unfortunate this man used cheating as a solution to his failing marriage. Not sure though if this is a pattern with him as he could of done this in other relationships as well.
Doesn't sound like a problem having a friendship with him, but you definitely should tread lightly if you decide to enter a romantic relationship with him.
May I ask how old this guy is and how long have you known him?
I really don't believe "once a cheat always a cheat" as I believe behaviors can be changed. It's unfortunate this man used cheating as a solution to his failing marriage. Not sure though if this is a pattern with him as he could of done this in other relationships as well.
Doesn't sound like a problem having a friendship with him, but you definitely should tread lightly if you decide to enter a romantic relationship with him.
May I ask how old this guy is and how long have you known him?
Thanks, and happy new year to you.
Specialmom, whose advice I greatly respect, said "In the scenario given, to me it sounds like a man that wasn't making excuses but being honest that he had a low period in his life and did something wrong." I still think it sounds like he was trying to use telling you about his bad marriage to somehow lessen what he was revealing, but am willing to soften that hard stance and say *perhaps* he was just being honest and explaining the context (in which he ignored his marriage vows).
You're saying he should not have done it because it hurt her or would hurt her. Well, maybe, but that is like saying you should not drive 60 mph in a 25 zone because you might get a ticket. He should not have done it because it was the wrong thing for a married man to do. He should have understood what commitment meant and been motivated to keep his word simply because he had given it. If he had put primary importance on the fact that he made a promise, he would have addressed his marriage issues (for improvement or divorce), not used them to justify sneaking around. Along with the fact that when he told you that he had cheated, he made it a point to tell you that the state of his marriage was presumably some kind of mitigating circumstances, it just sounds like his style is to not want to fully face up to things and take responsibility. Maybe after a long time, you can give him a chance, if he seems to have manned up in general. But I've got to say, if it were me, I'd always wonder if he was going to reach some combination of circumstances that would make him feel like sneaking off again on his promises.
Specialmom, whose advice I greatly respect, said "In the scenario given, to me it sounds like a man that wasn't making excuses but being honest that he had a low period in his life and did something wrong." I still think it sounds like he was trying to use telling you about his bad marriage to somehow lessen what he was revealing, but am willing to soften that hard stance and say *perhaps* he was just being honest and explaining the context (in which he ignored his marriage vows).
You're saying he should not have done it because it hurt her or would hurt her. Well, maybe, but that is like saying you should not drive 60 mph in a 25 zone because you might get a ticket. He should not have done it because it was the wrong thing for a married man to do. He should have understood what commitment meant and been motivated to keep his word simply because he had given it. If he had put primary importance on the fact that he made a promise, he would have addressed his marriage issues (for improvement or divorce), not used them to justify sneaking around. Along with the fact that when he told you that he had cheated, he made it a point to tell you that the state of his marriage was presumably some kind of mitigating circumstances, it just sounds like his style is to not want to fully face up to things and take responsibility. Maybe after a long time, you can give him a chance, if he seems to have manned up in general. But I've got to say, if it were me, I'd always wonder if he was going to reach some combination of circumstances that would make him feel like sneaking off again on his promises.
Hi Chima, ty for your answer and your time on my post. " Other people allow it but then the trust is gone so then they wonder why things are falling apart. It's common sense." This right here, has always been my take on cheating- once someone either says I love you, or is married, and then goes off w/another emotionally or physically, to me, 'trust is gone' , just as you put it. I can't do this to someone, I just could not, and why would I WANT to when I'm either married, or if not, in a relationship that I've told someone I love???? I guess there is NOT much common sense out there. I have agreed with you most of my life, there is no excuse to be cheating on someone. With this person, I've known him a while and he has always been so kind to me, caring, and has been so honest about the topic, that I just felt that b/c he felt so awful and so much guilt about it, (which most tend to not after they cheat, they just end up leaving the partner) that I truly believe he was in a low low point and it was a mistake, and he told his wife immediately after it happened as well... so it is very tricky for me, in this instance. I know he is an honest person, and likes me a lot, and wants more, eventually, but, I 'd still have this in the back of my mind, that even being/feeling so low, and apologizing after, I feel anything I dont' do that isn't pleasing etc, will be terms for that ?:( I know that is very illogical, and I need to work on MY self esteem too , b/c I've always feared a man doing this to me anyway.. but I dont' want to just let someone go that sees me for me, and truly likes me, b/c of this fear. arghhh.. ty again Chima... you seem like a really intelligent person and friend, and I am grateful for such a thought provoking response. Happy New Year to you !! keep in touch :)
Hi specialmom.. Thanks so much for responding to my post. *Huggs* I really am in your view right now, that he was in a very low point in his life, the wife arrogant, and never talking, and he had tried to work things out w/her. I feel people DO and CAN make mistakes and that in this case, it really does seem like he felt awful about it, was open with ME about it, and truly cares about me. It is comforting that you mentioned you know people who have cheated, but redeemed the mistake to be wonderful , better people in the relationship. I guess as I said to Annie, I'd be thinking, 'when am I not going to be enough, etc? ' and have it in the back of my mind- I guess I've always felt that about most men though, like someone 'other woman' will be wonderful and great, and they'll dump me soon enough anyway, which has hindered me So much, I've never really had a true boyfriend. It is not a way to live, and not a view to have of all men, or of Myself..that any little thing they don't feel enough this /that, it will be 'bye' ...it is an illogical fear and expectation I put on myself to be perfection for someone, when sometimes, we Need to fight, we need to communicate, with someone we love, and find out even insecurities /flaws about each other. Ty for your thoughts on this, cheating is never an easy topic, and although it has always repulsed me, b/c it violates anything youtold someone you LOVE, I guess nothing in life is ever just 'black or white' . I have always thought once a cheater, always, but in this case, it did not ring true to me. Thanks again, your responses are always reflective and help me very much :) I hope you have a wonderful New Year!
Hi Annie, I appreciate your feedback greatly. Yes, You hit it where I thought too, if you are married, working on it is key- and having integrity like you said is too. I know that he tried to 'work things out' and that she was arrogant and vain, but if I'm still 'in' a marriage, or even have proclaimed to love this person, I would Not , under any circumstance, even during 'rocky' periods, cheat; I just cannot do to someone what I know would feel like a knife if someone did it to ME. He is so smart and kind and I realize he knows it was a low point, and that they both were feeling the marriage dwindling, but it still just in my mind triggers, 'when would this happen to me?' , know what I mean? when will I not be the right thing, etc, and that is what I've always feared w/men.. like when they don't like something or just aren't interested, then bam, you're done... and it has held me back SO much in regards to men/romance :( I think that perhaps, perhaps, this 'was' a one time thing, but it is still hard and in the back of the mind.. I thank you for your thorough response, you are such a wonderful friend and have great insight . Happy New Year Annie :)
I would say there's never a good reason to cheat. If things are that bad at home then just leave, have some integrity, you know? When someone crosses that line then that's it, they're a cheater. There's really no excuse in my opinion, and I really think that that people would rather be lazy and not do the work to either fix what's wrong in the relationship or they just lack the integrity to do the right thing and leave first because of any excuse under the sun. I personally have a zero tolerance policy in my relationships when it comes to cheating. People have one chance and that's it for me. Other people allow it but then the trust is gone so then they wonder why things are falling apart. It's common sense.
Now, I understand from your post that he cheated previously in another relationship and you're asking now if you should trust that he wouldn't do it to you if he was in a relationship with you. Well, I think that's anybody's guess. I don't know the guy so I can't say if he will or he won't. But I'd say, if you decide to get into a relationship, keep your eyes wide open and don't turn a blind eye to things that feel wrong in your gut. Be aware, stay aware and if he crosses the line then don't give him a second chance. That's really all anyone can do in a situation like this.
Now, I understand from your post that he cheated previously in another relationship and you're asking now if you should trust that he wouldn't do it to you if he was in a relationship with you. Well, I think that's anybody's guess. I don't know the guy so I can't say if he will or he won't. But I'd say, if you decide to get into a relationship, keep your eyes wide open and don't turn a blind eye to things that feel wrong in your gut. Be aware, stay aware and if he crosses the line then don't give him a second chance. That's really all anyone can do in a situation like this.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I really don't think there is any excuse for cheating. None, ever. That being said, I think many decide they are in relationships sooner than a foundation for one has been formed. From the first date until a certain period of time, I believe people are getting to know each other and should be allowed to date others. I also feel like many women settle for men that won't commit to marriage with them and live as their wives when in reality, the statement is made by the man they are with that they do not see the relationship as a forever situation. That is a red flag to me. I really don't quite understand living together as married but not marrying. I don't judge but I do think it makes a statement about the state of the relationship and what the intent is of one or both parties (to not take the ultimate step to tie them to the other person).
Now if they would cheat again is a different matter to me. I do know some who have made wrong/poor/ disgusting choices to learn from them and become wonderful, faithful partners. So, I've never believed -- once a cheat always a cheat. However, it is certainly a red flag about someone I'd look at seriously.
In the scenario given, to me it sounds like a man that wasn't making excuses but being honest that he had a low period in his life and did something wrong. I'd look for insights to his character to add to the story of his life. But in truth, I'd always have a tiny bit of doubt in my mind. However, I again, know many couples that one of the partners has cheated at some point in their life and are indeed loving partners now. ??
Always a tough subject. It's very hurtful to ever be cheated on in any way. I feel for anyone that has ever gone through that.
Now if they would cheat again is a different matter to me. I do know some who have made wrong/poor/ disgusting choices to learn from them and become wonderful, faithful partners. So, I've never believed -- once a cheat always a cheat. However, it is certainly a red flag about someone I'd look at seriously.
In the scenario given, to me it sounds like a man that wasn't making excuses but being honest that he had a low period in his life and did something wrong. I'd look for insights to his character to add to the story of his life. But in truth, I'd always have a tiny bit of doubt in my mind. However, I again, know many couples that one of the partners has cheated at some point in their life and are indeed loving partners now. ??
Always a tough subject. It's very hurtful to ever be cheated on in any way. I feel for anyone that has ever gone through that.
At the very least I would continue to see this as a "red flag" (the dishonesty - for whatever reason or excuse). Just BEWARE and be AWARE.
I also agree with AnnieBrooke. If the Marriage was un fixable it should have been terminated, not cheated on. Cheating does not fly in my book - no matter the reason.
Good Luck and Happy New Year to You, too!!
I also agree with AnnieBrooke. If the Marriage was un fixable it should have been terminated, not cheated on. Cheating does not fly in my book - no matter the reason.
Good Luck and Happy New Year to You, too!!
The guy basically told you that he was mad at his wife for her attitude, and he didn't take responsibility or try to fix things, he simply blamed her and screwed around with someone else. Hey, maybe she got that attitude because she was married to an irresponsible kid who justifies everything and never takes responsibility.
It's not hard to get out of a relationship if you are not happy, but he didn't do that. It's harder to work on and fix a relationship if you are not happy, he didn't do that either. He just ran around, then mourned and felt sorry for himself or her or the relationship (after he cheated).
Whether he would ever cheat again in a different relationship, who knows. But what he did does not say much for his character. It says he is someone who doesn't work on it when the situation is tough even if he has made a marriage promise. And that he justifies his hurtful actions by pointing to faults in others. This shows he doesn't have much integrity and doesn't take responsibility for his actions or for addressing the situation in which he finds himself.
Will you be comfortable in a relationship where he will justify whatever he feels like doing by pointing out things about you?
It's not hard to get out of a relationship if you are not happy, but he didn't do that. It's harder to work on and fix a relationship if you are not happy, he didn't do that either. He just ran around, then mourned and felt sorry for himself or her or the relationship (after he cheated).
Whether he would ever cheat again in a different relationship, who knows. But what he did does not say much for his character. It says he is someone who doesn't work on it when the situation is tough even if he has made a marriage promise. And that he justifies his hurtful actions by pointing to faults in others. This shows he doesn't have much integrity and doesn't take responsibility for his actions or for addressing the situation in which he finds himself.
Will you be comfortable in a relationship where he will justify whatever he feels like doing by pointing out things about you?
Hi T, Thank you so much for your response. I agree that any form of cheating, whether it be emotional, or physical is a huge red flag.. it feels as if you've been cut with a knife, and were worth 'nothing' :( I regard someone as a close friend, a confidante, who has always been open/honest with me, even regarding this part of his life..so my 'bells' went on in my head, but I like him and realize he has had a life of many downs, besides the marriage, and I know he likes me a lot, I just don't know what to do from here; I guess for now we shall remain friends, but he wants more. I have always heard that slogan; Once a cheater, always a cheater.. but I tried to look for the silver lining- as they were not even talking at all when it occurred, and she was misusing him, etc.. it just made me still wonder though :( Ty so so much for your thoughts on this, I do agree that someone's character is very important and infediltiy in general is big on that list. I just wish people and life were not so complicated :( Thanks again amiga, I truly appreciate this. Huggs ~ Michelle .. Happy New Year too :)
As for the saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" - my take is:
cheating is wrong for any circumstance - and a person who cheats IS a cheat. I wouldn't feel trustful of someone who cheated irregardless of the excuse/reason
The definition of cheating is to behave in a dishonest way. I think cheating shows a lack of Character, Standards and Morals.
On the cheat list infidelity is a biggie - but as "cheating" can encompass many things, I would likely feel distrustful of this person on many levels.
just my thoughts......
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