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Huge fight with long term younger woman - over?
Have been seeing a much younger woman (20s, I am in my 40s) for over 3.5 years. Have recently been having feelings that she isn't ready to really take it to the next level yet (i.e., she still wants to experience things on her own being so young. which I have respected). I was on the verge of setting up some boundaries because of this to not have unrealistic expectations for the future but still be 'cool' until she was ready.
Unfortunately, we got into a HUGE argument about politics of all things, and in the heat of the argument I probably said some things to make her think it is over. During the argument could tell because of my stance she was questioning whether she could deal with me further, and for that I definitely got under her skin, said something along the lines of if she doesn't like it she can leave and she stormed out.
Usually if we have argued (we haven't much) we have been quick to connect and make up -- including on things that imho were much worse. But this was different, as I could tell it hit a nerve for her on a personal level and I said things to get under skin at a time she was probably fragile. My mistake and lack of maturity for someone older, but it was the heat of the argument and can't take it back.
Regardless, I wanted a few days for each of us to cool down and then sent her a pretty heartfelt text which she has not responded to, as well as a gift that was delivered she hasn't acknowldged. Has been over a week and no response whatsoever. She does not have a lot of relationship experience and I got the sense she was shocked I had a different opinion on something personal to her and that I intentionally hurt her feelings with my words during the argument (have been sweet as pie to her for the most part since day 1).
Having been in a number of relationships, I initially looked at it as a bad argument we'd get over eventually -- but realize with her age, some emotional immaturity and lack of relationship experience, she probably hasn't dealt with this before and it may be different.
Given the age difference, what I was already feeling about the lack of trying to take it to the next level, and the silence from her for over a week, do most here think just let it go and that her silence has indicated she has moved on, so do the same? Or do some think reach out again just to be sure? While I am not sure marriage etc would be in the cards given the different stages of our lives, I do care about her and would hate for our long term dynamic to end completely over one stupid argument about politics -- although I know how passionate people can get over it.
Anyway, curious to get people's opinions. I had planned to reach out to her one more time (and I think it is possible she blocked my number) in the next few days, but that would be it after that. Thanks!
Unfortunately, we got into a HUGE argument about politics of all things, and in the heat of the argument I probably said some things to make her think it is over. During the argument could tell because of my stance she was questioning whether she could deal with me further, and for that I definitely got under her skin, said something along the lines of if she doesn't like it she can leave and she stormed out.
Usually if we have argued (we haven't much) we have been quick to connect and make up -- including on things that imho were much worse. But this was different, as I could tell it hit a nerve for her on a personal level and I said things to get under skin at a time she was probably fragile. My mistake and lack of maturity for someone older, but it was the heat of the argument and can't take it back.
Regardless, I wanted a few days for each of us to cool down and then sent her a pretty heartfelt text which she has not responded to, as well as a gift that was delivered she hasn't acknowldged. Has been over a week and no response whatsoever. She does not have a lot of relationship experience and I got the sense she was shocked I had a different opinion on something personal to her and that I intentionally hurt her feelings with my words during the argument (have been sweet as pie to her for the most part since day 1).
Having been in a number of relationships, I initially looked at it as a bad argument we'd get over eventually -- but realize with her age, some emotional immaturity and lack of relationship experience, she probably hasn't dealt with this before and it may be different.
Given the age difference, what I was already feeling about the lack of trying to take it to the next level, and the silence from her for over a week, do most here think just let it go and that her silence has indicated she has moved on, so do the same? Or do some think reach out again just to be sure? While I am not sure marriage etc would be in the cards given the different stages of our lives, I do care about her and would hate for our long term dynamic to end completely over one stupid argument about politics -- although I know how passionate people can get over it.
Anyway, curious to get people's opinions. I had planned to reach out to her one more time (and I think it is possible she blocked my number) in the next few days, but that would be it after that. Thanks!
Erm, I'll try not to dogopile on this argument with my own personal grievances but here's my take on this:
If you don't see this relationship having a future, if you don't see this woman as potential mother of your children then why continuing? Why wasting your time, and hers?
Also if you're about to date someone half your age you should expect them to have vastly different opinions from yours, and not only about politics. Last time I spoke to a 20 year old I nearly got a brain aneurysm... Relationship should be more than just sex with a young hottie. Eventually the thrill of it fades.
If you don't see this relationship having a future, if you don't see this woman as potential mother of your children then why continuing? Why wasting your time, and hers?
Also if you're about to date someone half your age you should expect them to have vastly different opinions from yours, and not only about politics. Last time I spoke to a 20 year old I nearly got a brain aneurysm... Relationship should be more than just sex with a young hottie. Eventually the thrill of it fades.
She probably does feel it's over, since the argument uncovered that you have the tendency to be a jerk when you're mad. And then you blaming her ("I ... realize with her age, some emotional immaturity and lack of relationship experience, she probably hasn't dealt with this before") -- first of all, it is not the automatic duty of a romantic partner to accept being yelled at and make everything all right; anyone with self-respect would have left. Also, at 26, she's probably not immature and even if she doesn't have a past history of a lot of boyfriends, she's certainly handled herself in many arguments. Don't blame her and label her immature for reacting to what you revealed about your character. With the advantages of your age, (assumed) maturity, and relationship experience, blowing up like that shouldn't have happened. She could well be considering now that in a stressful moment your style will be authoritarian, not interested in seeking common ground, and wondering if she should stick. She probably wasn't even as bothered by the difference of political opinions as by what the argument revealed about your character or at least about your style of communication when angry. If you can't accept her for who she is (including her political opinions that you disagree with), and, I'd suggest, learn a different way of managing anger (note -- "My way or the highway!" doesn't work very well), you should just let her go. She'll get back to you if she wants to give it another chance.
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Thanks. To be clear, the only reason I was a "jerk" was because she was being a jerk to me because of a difference of opinion. But I hear what you are saying regardless. Thanks for your input.
I do apologize for my choice of the word "jerk." I was reacting to the idea that you would yell at your loved one that if she couldn't agree, she should leave. There's a difference between her getting upset when she learned that you disagree about a political view she finds important, and you yelling that if she doesn't agree, get out, though. (Of course if she told you to go to hell for your opinions or something, that was rude too.)
In these very fraught times, political disagreements can get very serious between friends and especially in couples. My husband and a friend of long standing have actually stopped seeing each other because it makes his friend so angry that my husband doesn't agree with his opinions. What might have been shrugged off as "just" a difference of viewpoint 20 years ago really can bulldoze relationships and friendships today. It might be that her shock at your opinion is part of her silence now, since it would maybe have opened the door to her wondering if she would be happy with you long term.
But something else might be going on. Have you ever heard the phrase, "I don't really date, it's more like I audition potential husbands." That's a pretty common thought by the time a woman is in her mid-20s, due to the short time a woman has to have children. A woman 21 or younger (you don't say how young she was when you were first dating) might be just looking for fun and out to experience life, but by her mid-20s, she can't avoid understanding that if she ever wants to settle down and have a family, she'd better be looking for someone to have one with. You said you have been getting the feeling that she "isn't ready to really take it to the next level yet," maybe she's getting tired of you not clarifying what you're in this for. Have you ever discussed your doubt that "marriage etc would be in the cards given the different stages of our lives"? If you've said this to her, and if she's worried about her biological clock, you yelling at her to get out if she didn't agree might have opened the door to a lot of wondering what she's doing hanging around with you. You say you don't want the long-term dynamic to end, does that mean, you want to keep playing and never make a commitment? My guess is that even if you met her when she was a baby and up for adventure, she's coming to the conclusion that a more settled life is a good thing.
Again, the ball is really in her court. If she loves you and you love her, she'll probably reach out. Your "boundaries" then should be to draw a fence around what you discuss politically, not about whether you back off waiting for her to have adventures. But also, you should decide what you want from her. If it's just sex and goofing around, she might have reached a point where that's not enough.
In these very fraught times, political disagreements can get very serious between friends and especially in couples. My husband and a friend of long standing have actually stopped seeing each other because it makes his friend so angry that my husband doesn't agree with his opinions. What might have been shrugged off as "just" a difference of viewpoint 20 years ago really can bulldoze relationships and friendships today. It might be that her shock at your opinion is part of her silence now, since it would maybe have opened the door to her wondering if she would be happy with you long term.
But something else might be going on. Have you ever heard the phrase, "I don't really date, it's more like I audition potential husbands." That's a pretty common thought by the time a woman is in her mid-20s, due to the short time a woman has to have children. A woman 21 or younger (you don't say how young she was when you were first dating) might be just looking for fun and out to experience life, but by her mid-20s, she can't avoid understanding that if she ever wants to settle down and have a family, she'd better be looking for someone to have one with. You said you have been getting the feeling that she "isn't ready to really take it to the next level yet," maybe she's getting tired of you not clarifying what you're in this for. Have you ever discussed your doubt that "marriage etc would be in the cards given the different stages of our lives"? If you've said this to her, and if she's worried about her biological clock, you yelling at her to get out if she didn't agree might have opened the door to a lot of wondering what she's doing hanging around with you. You say you don't want the long-term dynamic to end, does that mean, you want to keep playing and never make a commitment? My guess is that even if you met her when she was a baby and up for adventure, she's coming to the conclusion that a more settled life is a good thing.
Again, the ball is really in her court. If she loves you and you love her, she'll probably reach out. Your "boundaries" then should be to draw a fence around what you discuss politically, not about whether you back off waiting for her to have adventures. But also, you should decide what you want from her. If it's just sex and goofing around, she might have reached a point where that's not enough.
I'm with Annie on this, and I'm older than you are, with loads of relationship experience.
This fight aside, you do come across as very condescending to her. She can't possibly know how relationships work because she hasn't had many, she can't possibly have the maturity to deal with adult things because of her age and lack of maturity, yet she's been dating someone (you) for 3.5 years.
Maybe this is just because your view is a dealbreaker for her. I'm a little surprised it took this long for her to find out your political beliefs.
This is why relationships with big age gaps so rarely work, and I'm not faulting you for it. If I dated someone in their 20s, I'd feel a need to mother them. There's definitely a power imbalance just based on life experience. Whoever you date, you have to find them your equal. You don't seem to view her as that.
This fight aside, you do come across as very condescending to her. She can't possibly know how relationships work because she hasn't had many, she can't possibly have the maturity to deal with adult things because of her age and lack of maturity, yet she's been dating someone (you) for 3.5 years.
Maybe this is just because your view is a dealbreaker for her. I'm a little surprised it took this long for her to find out your political beliefs.
This is why relationships with big age gaps so rarely work, and I'm not faulting you for it. If I dated someone in their 20s, I'd feel a need to mother them. There's definitely a power imbalance just based on life experience. Whoever you date, you have to find them your equal. You don't seem to view her as that.
When you at first said she's "in her 20s," I assumed you meant she's in her mid 20s, like age 25 or 26. If she's a lot younger, (like, if she just entered her 20s), and if part of the reason you have been attracted to her is her youth, you might see her as immature even if she has actually matured in the last 3 1/2 years. My suggestion is to look at why you like her and what you want and are willing to give, and be ready to talk it over if your phone rings and it's her. But don't push it or make a pest of yourself in the meantime. It sounds like she's still thinking.
How old are each of you? It strikes me as odd that you just used vague 20s and 40s references when you know the actual ages. If she's 20 and you're 49 that is a huge gulf.
Thanks for the comments! Let me clarify a few things (i) she is in her mid/late 20s -- I am in my mid/late 40s; (ii) I didn't actually tell her to get out, she interpretted something I said as mean for her to get out so she did (and I took a parting shot at her when she stormed out which was my regret.
I have been the one trying to get clarity from her on what she is looking for from me -- I am ready to settle down and "go all in", but she has been hesitant and explains that as she is still trying to find herself and is overly independent which I have respected to this point but have been getting frustrated about whether she really wants a label or not. The "immaturity" comment was not saying she was childish, but more with respect to her not being in a lot of relationships and doesn't seem to know exactly what to put into our situation.
As an update, we have broken the ice and have communicated since the incident. She is "hot and cold" in the communication; at some points it feels she is good and will work with me to make this work, other times she 'catches herself'' and tells me she is still mad and needs to talk. We have set up times to meet and she has flaked out thus far, but will still communicate. I did tell her part of my underlying frustration is her not really "going all in" after all this time and for me to get clarity -- to which she says she is willing to meet and talk, but hasn't happened yet.
I think I will give it some time and not push to much, but the positive is that she is communicating and seems mostly willing to work it out, but the negatives are she does catch her, goes quiet at times and has yet to meet.
We will see what happens.
I have been the one trying to get clarity from her on what she is looking for from me -- I am ready to settle down and "go all in", but she has been hesitant and explains that as she is still trying to find herself and is overly independent which I have respected to this point but have been getting frustrated about whether she really wants a label or not. The "immaturity" comment was not saying she was childish, but more with respect to her not being in a lot of relationships and doesn't seem to know exactly what to put into our situation.
As an update, we have broken the ice and have communicated since the incident. She is "hot and cold" in the communication; at some points it feels she is good and will work with me to make this work, other times she 'catches herself'' and tells me she is still mad and needs to talk. We have set up times to meet and she has flaked out thus far, but will still communicate. I did tell her part of my underlying frustration is her not really "going all in" after all this time and for me to get clarity -- to which she says she is willing to meet and talk, but hasn't happened yet.
I think I will give it some time and not push to much, but the positive is that she is communicating and seems mostly willing to work it out, but the negatives are she does catch her, goes quiet at times and has yet to meet.
We will see what happens.
Do you 2 have mutual friends and if so are they her age or yours? What age are her parents and do you have a good relationship with them? Just wondering if other people in her life cause any pressure on her.
No mutual friends (her friends are in her age group, mine are in mine), never met the parents who are roughly my age -- slightly older. And without psychoanalyzing, think that's getting to the heart of the issue for me. I take full responsibility for the fight which I should have handled better, but I do think some of my frustrations may have boiled over a bit. Think we were in a comfortable 'routine' for a long time with no pressure, but came to a point of taking it to the next level, at least verbally - but I know the friends initially were not receptive and I know she is nervous to put it out there fully to her family. I had been starting to talk about what we need to do going forward if she wants a real relationship, but given the dynamic which I believe is largely caused by the age and experience difference, she has been hesitant -- which is why I prefaced my OP with me discussing the possibility of putting up boundaries to our 'situationship' if she doesn't feel she in a position to "go all in" by now. She hasn't said it, but I doubt if I was her age there would be the family/friend non-dynamic we have now. Yet she tells me she wants this to work etc, so I have been patient but here we are now. Again, I take full responsibility for the argument and wish I handled it better, but I know a lot of these issues were probably festering.
Does she never see her parents alone? Or did she cut ties with them before she met you?
With no mutual friends or acquaintances, it would be a rare kind of wedding if none of the invitees knew both of you.
With no mutual friends or acquaintances, it would be a rare kind of wedding if none of the invitees knew both of you.
Not really, there is some strain in the relationship with her parents who are separated and there are others around when she is with them. The friends seemingly began to accept "us" after some time, although can't say what they feel after our argument 3 weeks ago. She is extremely independent, works hard etc and told me she has trouble fully opening up to and depending on people, and hasn't been in a lot of relationships -- our dynamic is probably the longest she has had. In her mind from what she has expressed she feels we have been in a "relationship" and she hasn't been seeing anyone else to my knowledge this whole time -- but I just didn't feel this cycle could continue much longer without moving forward more seriously. I also understand I am not the one to dictate the terms so I have tried to give her time for when she is "ready" -- but I was just thinking she got comfortable with our situation as-is which in the long run probably wouldn't work.
Just as a quick update, we have completely made up and are on the best terms we have ever been -- also talked out our issues a lot. No guarantees but we both are trying to make it work. Thank you all for your input.
That's good news. I'm curious (you don't have to answer me, but might want to talk it over with her) about your doubt that "marriage etc would be in the cards given the different stages of our lives." I have to assume that a woman in her mid-20s will be thinking of when she might get married. If you don't want to get married and especially if you don't want to be a dad, she deserves to know this.
Anyway, congratulations on working out the fight. Have fun working out the rest. :-)
Anyway, congratulations on working out the fight. Have fun working out the rest. :-)
Hi, and sorry I missed this. We are still good, maybe some communication issues here and there but working on those -- but still in a good space. She is actually the one moving more slow about living together/marriage etc as she wants to experience doing things on her own for a bit while in her 20s and growing. Being independent minded, I have respected that and make it work.
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