Here we go again :(

[Brokenbutglued]

Just this past April I tried to help my husband through detox from Hydrocodone and Roxycodone but I just found out that he never made it totally off of these. :( I feel like I've failed him. I have a huge range of emotions going right now but I'm trying like crazy to shove my feelings off to the side so we can get through this again only have a better result. :(  Oh and he was/is taking 5-8 hyrdocodones depending on if and how many roxycodones he's had that day.

I've heard and read that a second round of detox is normally worse than the first. Has this been true for anyone here? What helped you the most?

I've talked with our family doc and he suggested enlisting the help of an outpatient program. What do you all think of doing an outpatient program vs. staying home for 4 or 5 days and dealing with each stage as it comes?

How can I do a better job in helping him stay off of them?

For those that have had a relapse, what got you back into taking the pills? What would've helped you to stay away?

[emwave]

First of all, YOU did not fail him!  My God, he is so lucky to have you!   Unfortunately, you can't keep him off drugs -- he has to really want it and take responsibility for his actions.  Of course, being understanding while he goes thru w/d is really nice of you.  The fact of the matter is, relapse is actually part of recovery for most people.  But one can catch the relapse quickly by telling someone they trust.
If he is serious about quitting, I'd send him in-patient to a place called "The Summer House" in FL.  I don't know your financial situation, but I do know that insurance will often pay for at least part of the stay.
I think going ct may just be too hard for him -- he may need to taper down.
It doesn't sound like he's taking much, but addicts rarely are honest about how much they are really taking.
Good luck, keep us posted.  And most of all, lose the guilt you have -- you have done absolutely nothing wrong!

[Brokenbutglued]

My husband will be taking some time off work for the ummm flu *wink wink* starting this Sat. :) :) so I'll be making a trip to the store to round up things to help ease his w/d symptoms. That got me thinking though, I don't have a post w/d plan but I do have some ideas I'm just a little unsure...I don't want him to feel like I'm treating him like a child. I'm considering cutting him off from the checking acct and giving him cash for when he goes to work instead...it would prevent him from withdrawing a good chunk of money from our checking acct to buy pills and making us late on payments. I've also thought about getting a gps tracking unit stuck to his truck so I know where he is, how long he is there and if he is there on a regular basis. Part of me thinks this is all a great idea..but then what...what if he relapses? I can't help him if he doesn't want help and all the above things mentioned would either just make it more difficult to get pills or clue me in faster if he relapses. I can't force him to get help so would it do any good? Is it going too far?


Also, I think he is on something else besides hydros and roxys. Last round it was just those two but this time around his personality has changed some. He's more energetic, sleeps less, seems happier (almost a bouncier happy) and he doesn't seem to react appropriately to things that pre addiction would've ticked him off.

[billyc4026]

First of all i am an addit vicodin or what ever hydro he is on is only three days do not have him put on methadone i am i been trying to get off for six years i work have a family and constanly detoxing through work this is a disease suboxone is the way to go trust me i been additted for 17 years on much more it started out  on vicodin and progressed to heroin its much cheaper and you need no prescription to get it alot of it was in my mind the withdrawls i was expecting so they came i laid on a couch waiting for them i tried another aproach with the change 0f area which work was on a huge happit equal t more than 100 hydrocdone a day and moved went to work and kept my mind off of it and it work but give suboxone a try u can gget through your doctor just call one u find one dr on thr site www.suboxone.com in ur area his pain is nothing compared to swallowing thirty at a time spending 100,000 dollars in a year losing my family and everything else has he tried detox? if he doesnt want to go that way call the dr get on subone he will feel better quickly it does have a narcotic in it plus a med if he was to take anything he would become very ill dont get on methadone like me..if u need more info email me at ***@**** i have beeen through it their and back again and now their again...

[momloves54]

Honey-- Honey-- Honey;;;;;; You are living in so much fear and panic !!!! First of all you will never be able to stop him from using even if you lock him in a room if he wants to use and does not want to quit he will find away to get them even from a locked room!! There is a saying in the 12 step program for family members of addicts and that is You did not cause it, you can not change it, and you can not cure it! You are very much in love with him and want to help him and that is a great thing,  but sweetie you can not save him from the dark hole he has fell into, you can give him a rope but unless he holds on you will not be able to pull him out! All im saying is love him be there for him help him in any way you can but do not blame your self for this ! I really think you are a wonderful wife you are doing just what your wedding vows said  to do and that was for better or for worse and in sickness and in health and you are honoring your vows you are very special I hope he knows how lucky he is! addiction is a hard thing to over come I feel so very sorry for him!!! I do hope he gets a hold of it for him self as well as for you ! Maybe you and him might want to think about going to some aa or na meetings and he might want to try the 12 step  program . I will be praying that he comes though detox and that he will get some help and that you will be able to stay strong during this terrible time! Im here if you ever want to talk!                    momloves54

[kolo13]

When I read your account I cried thinking about everything I have put my wife through. On a practical basis, the best move we made in a while was for me to give up my ATM card, my checkbook, and now I get an allowance on an as needed basis. It wouldn't have worked if she had done it unilaterally. But this way it's both of us together against my addict brain. Good luck.

[Kat8843]

i myself was addicated to Lortab (which is also a oxy type med) i was up to taking 40 10mg tabs a day,I tried the tapper last year it didn't work that well for me so i went back to using but 3 weeks ago i decided to go to a medical detox i was givin a shot every 6hours which got me off the pills, but after coming home i do now have some w/d but nothing i can't handle it is a whole lot better than when i tried to do it myself. i went to carolina center for behavioral health, not sure where you live but they have several all over maybe one in you area.i only had to stay 5 days, if you can afford it its well worth it.

[worried878]

he is very lucky to have u...u state his hydro use...what is his oxycodone use?   a 5-7 pilll hydrto daily use is noit substantial..i mean it is but very do-able at home...was at 100 mgs of hydro a day and felt better day 4

roxies r usually oxycodone/ not really any different/some say a smidge stronger than hydrocodone\  what is his toal dose daily combined?

and yes this is do-able at home...narcotics can be CT-ed at home///benzos/barbs and trams can not be stopped CT///have u read the thomas recipe?  in the health pages?   lots of great info there..if u have some time//read thru and learn

but again..ur enthusiasm is precious..u can not do this for him tho...u need to find some couseling or a meeting near u...if he wants this///truly down to the bones//he can do this...u can not do it for him...but he is so lucky to have u !   find a meeting..AA or NA...many older people r more comfy with AA/substance abuse is substance abuse be it alcohol or drugs ...if he doesnt want to stay in a recovery program then he may not make it long term...short term is a breeze..90 days is a great goal....this crud doesnt go away...prevention of relapse is important and aftercare is the key..physical wd is so easy compared to mentally becoming clean

keep posting...and hats off to ya!i

[Brokenbutglued]

small update

But first thank you all so much for your responses, without your responses I'd feel lost...it would be like having a destination without a map. Thank you ten million times <3

I decieded to ask him where he hides his drugs, more or less to test the waters to see how serious he is about wanting to stop. He hesitated a bit but he walked out with me and showed me. I asked him if I could see them...I wanted to see how many he had and I guess more or less take an inventory. He had two roxys, 7 blue hyrdos and 4 green hydros but I'm not sure how many milligrams each of those are. Err I do know from what he said the roxycodones are 30 mg each and I believe the hydros are 10 mg. each. He also had some Zanax (sp??) but said he hadn't taken those yet. I explained to him that if he had taken the Zanax he needed to tell me so we could get the appropriate help since those would mean he would need to be hospitalized for w/ds. He handed over the 4 that he had and said he'd never taken them...wheeew! I was glad that he shared his hiding spot with me, sure he can find a new one but it gave me the feeling that he does really want to stop. We talked for a bit about the reasons he wants to stop and how to stay quit. We shared our fears. He's a good person and really it's an honor to be married to such a good man. We all make mistakes, Lord knows he's been there for me when I've made my many many many mistakes.

Emwave You hit the nail on the head, he wasn't really being upfront with how much he was taking. He's been taking 5-8 hydros and 2-5 roxys a day but with the 30 mg roxy he snorts them. I'm not really sure how snorting makes this worse but I'm thinking it does. If anyone has any input on this I'd appreciate it. Thank you all again, my heart goes out to all out you. *hugs*

[abel04]

yuppers--you'all have to decide TOGETHER to cut off the $$$ even if he works---credit cards, checking acct. etc.  Just gas money & lunch money  on a daily basis....but he has to agree to it, actually better if he comes up with it.......ask him if he were you, what would he do? Sit down together & make a plan.  He's fixin' to lose his family-home-life; tell him you can't help him do it anymore by "ignoring/enabling" it.
He 'fessed up, that's the hardest part; you'all will make it
annabel

[emwave]

I was pretty sure he wasn't telling you how much he was taking -- like I said, addicts tend to want to minimize their problem.  Usually addicts don't really let you know how much they are taking until they are really in trouble or are in a program or finally clean.  Five 30mg roxyies is a pretty good sized habit (to me, anyway).  I believe I read somewhere that snorting a roxy approx. doubles it's strength.  I don't know for sure as I've never snorted anything.  But I'm pretty sure about it doubling it's effect.  I'll try to remember where I read that, but I think there are probably people here who can tell you what the effect is.  Let's face it, no one would go through the trouble of snorting it if it didn't increase the effect.  Roxies act very quickly -- I've only done the 5mg ones, but have taken a few at a time, and within 15 minutes or so I could definitely feel them. So the only reason I could see to snort them would be to make them stronger.

You say that the last time he went thru wd he didn't really stop -- that tells me that an in-patient detox may be his best bet.  They do have ones that will medicate a person and just taper the dose.  And many insurance plans will pay for a week or so -- if he can at least cut down (or even stop for a couple of days)  before going in it will make his stay shorter.  I don't know where you live, but the one I mentioned to you has high ratings as far as keeping patients comfortable, etc.  This may not be an option for you, but I can give you more info if you want it -- just get in contact with me like before.

Regardless of what he does, he absolutely needs an aftercare program -- keep that in mind.  But mostly, please, please remember that you are not the cause of his problem and he is sooo lucky to have you.  Please keep us posted.

[Brokenbutglued]

GRRRRR I'm so angry right now!!! What I haven't mentioned is that I have a strong feeling that one person he's getting his pills from is his SISTER!!!! Well her and her excon drug addicted drug dealer husband. Sure I don't mind the excon part IF he had stayed away from selling when he got out I mean that's what landed him in prison to begin with. If he was really as clean as he claims that'd be great too.

So anyway, she "just found out" about his problem and how he's wanting to stop. BUT she too is addicted (somas, hydros and I'm not sure what else) but not by her own admission. So WHY and HOW does SHE think she can help??!!!! I want her to stay away, far far away. *pounds head against the wall* She is an enabler for sure!! She has zero willpower for herself, her children or anyone else of any sort of value in her life.
Beyond any shadow of a doubt she is the biggest enabler I've ever met. So now what? Oh hey honey by the way your sister and her man aren't allowed to call or visit?!! I feel like it's the whole David vs. Golliath! I HATE pills and I hate how todays world is ok with taking yet one more pill for one more problem. GRRRRRRR What do I do with the sister in law?

[emwave]

I just realized that today is the first day of his detox (duh).  Given that, I'll be praying that all goes well.  Let us know how u r doing when u get a chance.  

[Brokenbutglued]

Thank you emwave! Yeah today he is still at work, he took his last roxy yesterday and has been taking hydros today but will be going ct starting tomorrow. He's doing ok, he said he feels tired and he said he feels like his legs weigh a ton each, I think this morning was def hard for him. I went shopping yesterday to get supplies for the next several days...7up, immodium, pedialyte, vitamin water, hylands restful legs, valerian root, bananas, oatmeal, turkey roast, taters, tuna, ham, bagels and pasta. Tomorrow and the next few days will be the hardest for him so I don't want to have to leave to go to the store and leave him by himself at his weakest.

[emwave]

I must had been typing while you were -- I missed the part about the sister.  Listen, you can only support his efforts.  HE has to cut off connections, etc.  You are probably going through more agony than he is; it's not fair and it will not work.  I'm more concerned about you right now than him.  You life seems to be revolving around his problem and sometimes you just have to give yourself a break.  I would never, ever expect my spouse to be there every minute for me while detoxing.  While I think it's great that he has your support, there's realy only so much you can do.  He needs to realize that it is up to him to take care of his problem.  Again, I think it's great that he can count on your support, but you have a life to live, also -- don't ever forget that.  I don't know how comfortable you are with is sister, but if you have the type of relationship where you can talk to her, tell her she needs to stay away for a while.  Really, I think your husband should let her know that he's had it and needs some temporary separation.

I don't know exactly how you should handle this because none of my friends or family are into drugs/alcohol at all.  I'm sure there are others here who can give you better advice than I can.  Just be sure to take time for yourself -- if you don't, you will end up "sick".  The best thing anyone can do for those who care about them is to take good care of themselves.  Make SURE you do some good things for yourself to help get your mind off of his detox.

Btw, it is normal for your husband to feel down today -- the anticipation of the wd is sometimes as bad as the wd itself.  One day at a time -- one hour at a time -- one minute at a time -- whatever it takes.  He can get through this if he wants it badly enough.

I think it would be good for you to join a support group like Alanon (they have them for people supporting those with narcotic habits, too).

In the mean time, know in your heart that there are people out here who really care about you.

[Brokenbutglued]

Thank you emawave, I just read your post and it was perfect timing. I go back and forth from feeling empathetic for him and loathing him. I don't let the frustration come out though, I keep it away since now just isnt the time. I'll look into the support groups too, thank you for your advice too, it's a big help...all of you!! :)

I'm not sure how much I'll be on these next few days but I'll post an update just as soon as I can. *big hugs to all of you* please hang in there.

[Brrrrad]

I agree w/ some from above, he has got to want to quit and he must be "ALL IN" w/ the effort or it will be a mess. If HE really wants to get clean he will let you set up "barriers" so he can`t get more pills, like you giving him money,or you going to the store w/ him ect.....
I asked my wife to do that in the very beginning w/ me and alcohol over 12 yrs ago and it helped alot, anything to take some of the temptation away.
We all know it`s not easy but if HE really want`s to be clean and you are awesome to be there to help he can do it and look for all the outlets to help.
He is blessed to have you in his life and please keep me updated.
Remember Jesus can do anything just ask.   Stay Strong Brad

[emwave]

How's the detox going with your husband?  YOU GUYS CAN DO THIS!!

[Brokenbutglued]

Yippeeeee Day two!

Things are moving along pretty good. I'm proud of him for hanging in there! He's been getting hot and cold, sweating and chills, feeling a little down, racing heartrate now and then. I ask him if there is anything he needs and he always says he doesn't know, so I do my best to guess. I wish he'd talk to me more... tell me how he's feeling or what he's thinking....what I can do. The epsom salt baths seem to help, even if nothing more than to get him up and moving. He spends 99% of the day in the bed either sleeping or laying there. He said sitting up and standing is too hard. Day two has gone smoothly and I'm looking forward to day three.

[emwave]

I'm really glad to hear things are going ok so far.  Since he used last on Saturday, you guys should be right about in the middle of the worst part (well, now through the next 24 hrs. or so).  Just take it an hour at a time if things get rough.
I'm not surprised that he doesn't feel like talking, his body is going through a lot of stress right now.  Once he "peaks", I think he'll become more talkative.  The best thing you can do for him is assure him you are there if he needs you.  Anything he can do to keep his mind off of the wd at this point will help him.
You are a saint for your caring and understanding.  Keep going, you guys are almost over this.  :)

[HealthySquid]

You should be rounding the corner now.

Since this is the second time, I suggest you see someone like an "addiction specialist."  They are doing things like putting an implant of naltrexone in the gut that blocks all opiates for at least 6-8 weeks.  The naltrexone has more affinity in the MU Receptors than opiates does therefore the opiates cannot stick and pass right on by.  This implant also greatly limits the cravings in aftercare.

There are drawbacks.  The most important one is that although it has been proven safe and effective, it has not been approved as an implant by the the FDA.  Only approved to be taken orally.  The second drawaback is that if you were in a situation where you were hurt really bad like a bad car accident, you could not have opiate medication as it would be blocked.  I actually had to go through an upper endoscopy almost wide awake with the implant.  Yes, I survived but it was H*LL.

All in all, I am glad to have the implant.  My wife and everyone around me doesn't have to wonder if I am clean.  I litterally have no cravings whatsoever.  I am on day 34 from a 450mg+ per day oxycodone IR presciption.  IM me if you would like to know more.

Otherwise, I would make him submit to drug testing at any time you deem necessary with consequences if he comes up positive.  I have been one of those guys with hiding places and things like that.  I don't ever want to go there again.  I too had to tell my wife where my hiding places were.  Speaking for him, you are the most awesome support he could ever have.

Good Luck!

[Brokenbutglued]

Hello all! :) Tuesday was the worst possible day! He had chills, severe anxiety, body twitches, nausea, runs and overall bad withdrawals. He's made it through the worst physical withdrawals but the mental side/cravings are kicking into high gear :(. This is his 5th day and is slowly feeling better. He's up and moving around some on his own at least. Do the cravings and mental withdrawals normally get worse from here or normally improve?

We went outside and sat for a little bit, it was a warm day and the sun was out :). I think it helped a little just to get out into the nice warm sun! Today we're going to venture out a little further to get more supplies :). That darn litterbox can't go one more day without more litter lol.
Today is a good day, we've made it one more day, fought another battle and we're winning!! 5 days clean, 5 days proud!!!!!

I'm still encouraging him to come here... ;) Thank you everyone for all of your support and kind words of encouragement! <3

[di3624]

Wow, you are a godsend to your husband.  Keep up the good work, stay patient and keep giving us updates.  Hopefully, hubby will be willing to hear some of these posts if you read them to him.

Unlike your husband, I was dealing with this misery on my own.  When I finally shared my problem with my husband, he was not understanding at all.  I don't blame him but, I sure would of helped if he was a bit more sympathetic.  

I have noticed a few extra phone calls from him, while he is at work, asking me "how are you doing?"  Maybe it's empathy or maybe he just wants his Superwoman wife back.  Oh well... I'll take what I can get.  

Keep up the wonderful thing you are doing and remember, be patient.

[kiylen]

I have been through serious withdrawals from methadone before and it is the hardest drug to come off of.  I did it cold turkey and relapsed.  I went back on the methadone, never got as high of a dose as before and now I am tapering off.  The main thing that made me relapse after 60 days clean was just the lack of energy and the depression.  Oh my gosh, the depression.  If possible, your husband needs to get on an anti-depressant from a doctor, take multi-vitamins and also get valerian root at any store (walmart, target, etc.) to help him rest.  I'm sorry to disagree with others, but we all have our opinion. Subtex, Suboxone, Naltrexone, are supposed to be opiate blockers but do contain opiates and then you have to withdraw from them.  I know because I tried Suboxone for just two weeks and it was hell!  You have been nothing but supportive of your husband and you should be commended, not have any guilt over anything.  What you have is a true love and true caring for this man and his well-being.  You two will beat this if he is truly honest with you and knows what a strain it is putting on your marriage.  I do agree that you should watch the money very closely.  That is a main indicator.  And now you know the behavior to watch for.  All of the drugs he was on filled the normal chemical receptors in our brain that make us happy and now those receptors are not going to produce the normal chemicals that make us happy for a while.  They are what you call "dead" because they are so used to the drug filling up the receptors they have forgotten how to do it on their own.  It will take a while but they will slowly start to recover.  That is what I was talking about as far as the depression.  Exercise will stimulate some of the receptors and like I said, a good anti-depressant will help.  Just give it time.  I hope he is doing better and I will definitely keep you guys in my prayers.

[HealthySquid]

I want to clear something up here.  While I agree that Subutex and Suboxone are very powerful opiates, Naltrexone is NOT an opiate by any means.   Naltrexone does not have any opiate properties nor does it have a w/d when one quits taking it or the implant dissolves.  Please do your research on this and do not spread false rumors.

The rest of your post was very good and I agree with everything you said other than about Naltrexone.

I also agree with getting a doctor or an addiction specialist involved who, besides the use of naltrexone, will not prescribe subutex nor suboxone.  Depression is a real enemy here.  Energy being my number 2 problem which is in a close race with the amount of sleep I get in a night.  Finding a great addiction specialist is worth their weight in gold.

[Brokenbutglued]

Thank you again for your support :) This day has been a good day! He is still feeling sorta drained and low on energy but then too he is dehydrated :(, I tried adding pedialyte to his waters throughout this this, and I thought he was drinking enough but obviously he wasn't. So, anyway, we went to the doctor today, he's lost a lot of weight too but he's in overall good health. The doctor did some bloodwork (for his liver function) so we'lll know more Monday on that. I've started him on theanine and tryrosine too, it's helped some from what I can tell (energy and mood). Also, he's been taking the 5 HTP but I feel that it wasn't doing all that it should be so that was part of the reason I went looking for the theanine and tyrosine (dang those were hard to find!), the protein shakes that I make also have tryptophan so, that along with the 5HTP should have even more positive results.
I talked to a lady that suggested Flaxseed, so I bought some. I know nothing about this stuff other than I have to grind it up lol. It's (according to her) been used for people and patients that are depressed, anxious, pmsing, menopausal and even suicidal.

I hope everyone is doing well, I'll post more tomorrow I hope! *big big  hugs to everyone* Ya'll have been wonderful, all of you, no matter the stage, are in my thoughts and prayers!!!!

[forumryder]

my girlfeend has helped me off oxys 2 times only the second time i i didnt get off.  i had told her i was fully off.  this was like 10 months ago.  i been using the whole time.  now i went cold turkey 3 days ago and i told her and she lost it.  sehs so mad at me we didnt talk for so long and she just raged and went out.  talkin **** about leaving me and stuff.  but my point is that she didnt let me down.  she didnt know she did her best right. it was me and my fault.  its not your fault your husband is still using.  he will use if he wants to right.  you cant beat yourself up over that  try to help him again pay closer attention to him and everything will work out

[Revcharberry]

Gluedandfixing, how are you?  Have you gotten help for yourself.  Don't forget to breathe.  You need to have a support system so that you can stay 2gether.  You must consider yourself while going through this ordeal.  Continue to lean on this 'family' for support because it's good to know you're not alone and many have been where you are.  Please don't think that I'm not concerned about your husband but I really want to know how you are.  Trust that God is just waiting with open arms for you ask for His help.  Allow the Holy Spirit to provide you with comfort.  You are also open to depression and other negative forces as you try to use all of yourself to help your husband. You can find comfort in the Psalms of David and Job's story will remind you that you are never alone. "Lo, I will be with you even until the end of ages." You are a wonderful caregiver, don't forget to give care to yourself.  I hope you don't mind that I changed your name because God is constantly fixing us, and you are trying to keep your marriage glued
2gether. Keep your head up and BREATHE. Love, Peace and Blessings...Rev

[Brokenbutglued]

Acck I'm sorry, I'm getting caught up on your posts but I think I'm responding out of order lol. Thank you for your support! You echoed what I wrote in another post of yours, it's good that you accept responsibility...it was hard for me to realize that it wasn't my fault. I tried, he didn't. All we can do is pick ourselves up and try again. Only try harder. Thank you for posting this! :) *hugs* One more day gone by and one more battle won!!!

[Brokenbutglued]

Thank you so much for your post, I love the name change! lol it made me smile! My "support" system is here actually, without the kindness and concern of people here I would've been lost. Trust me, God has been with me through all of this, I've begged and pleaded for help but I was too late, He was already helping. So then I started thanking Him.

When the time is right I'm going horseback riding for the day :), right now just isnt the time to take a break so I'll have to be patient and wait. That's ok too, Lord knows I need to work on my patience anyway lol. Maybe this is another lesson I'm learning...

thank you, all of you, for all that you've done!!!!!!!  My heart goes out to all of you,**** *BIG group hug****