Pregnant and freaking out

[signmeup]

Hello all.  I am a new member and having difficulty finding answers for my questions on the internet, so I thought I'd give some background on myself and see if anybody here has gone through what I am currently going through and offer some advice.  K, here goes.....I am currently 6 weeks pregnant (calculated from 1st day of last period, so actually only about 4).  I found out 8 days ago and immediately stopped everything I was doing which was drinking and taking suboxone, 8mgs every other day for an addiction to pain pills (20-30 norcos a day).  Problem is, I THOUGHT I could quit suboxone cold turkey since I have long gotten over my addiction to pain pills but when 4 days had passed, I started to experience withdrawals.  The worst w/d for me being the "creepy crawlies" in my arms and legs which just don't let up!  I became REALLY upset realizing that I wouldn't be able to just stop.  So I took an 8mg Suboxone which almost immediately made me feel better and then got on the internet.  Basically, what I found out was that I should switch to subutex, which I did TODAY and that my baby MAY experience withdrawals.  When I went to the doctors today he told me that my baby WILL experience withdrawals for about 7 days which has made me extremely upset!  I am married and we have a 14 year old and we have been loosely following the rhythm method with withdrawal method for over a year with the thought that if we get pregnant, we will have a baby.  I did this "loosy goosy" approach because I knew that I am such a scardy cat that I wouldn't deliberately TRY to get pregnant, but that if it happened, we would then be blessed with a baby.  Well, now I wish I never would have done this!  I am now faced with the dilemma of either having an abortion or having anxiety throughout the whole pregnancy that my baby will experience withdrawals which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.  If my baby dies after it is born I just would check out.  Both of my parents have passed away and my BEST friend just died 5 months ago.  I lost my dream job 3 years ago due to some really jacked up office politics and haven't worked since.  I thought that getting pregnant would be a wonderful thing for me and my family and give me a new outlook on life, but now that I've realized I can't just stop taking sub like THAT, I am FREAKING OUT!  I don't think that the stress or the consequences for my unborn is worth it.  I really need some TRUTH and advice either way...I was on my way to being fine.  I was planning on looking for a new job and getting my life back. I thought I was DONE being dependent on anything even though I was taking suboxone every other day for pain management, I thought if I HAD to, I'd just take some tylenol and be OK.  Well this wasn't the case and now I'm really scared.  Any input will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[TrayCee]

slowly reduce your doseage until youre down to zero

[LateAugust]

I am really sorry,  but I have not read or have any knowledge of an aprox 4 to 6 week fetus going thru w/d,  rather the concern would be more of development of the fetus and the impact of drug usage during this time.   I would strongly recommend you make another appt with your doctor and get more specific information which  will give you the knowledge you need to make the right decision for all involved.  If your current physician is not capable of answering these questions,  please check with another  medical professional until all of your questions  have been answered, where you feel you can make the best decision with the facts specific  to your situation.  

[dominosarah]

I agree with LateAugust.....Speak with your OB about your concerns and ask questions.  Write them down so you dont forget.  If you cant get the answers from one then find an OB who will listen and help you.  Gather all the info, the pros and cons and then you and your husband can make a decision on what to do.  I wish you all the best......sara

[worried878]

I am sorry no one educated u on sub....not sure why switching to subutex would be a big issue//unless u r having headaches?  both contain the powerhouse narcotic....8 mgs ois a ton of sub in the world of sub..at 8 days i wouldnt turn back and start over onsub,,,but i am me and u r u

did u talk to ur dr about a slow taper from the suB?  Cpourse if u r clean 8 days from sub going back now to taper is redundant..it is a big huge move backward...especially considering it is not only ur life u r thinking of now...if u r depressed//as it sounds like u could be///then often depression does bring a certain amount of self absortion to the picture..depressed peeps gotta do what they gotta do to survive day to day...been there/done that!

No one here can make this decision for u..only know 8 days off any narc makes it kinda a sad thing to turn back...narcotics are not ADs..were never meant to be and are not to use for an AD

u r pregnant...for many this is a reason for many to let go..in a state of depression things r hard..u may have not planned this child since ur other is 14?...sentencing my unborn baby to wds is just not sumpin i think i could do...but i am not in ur shoes..therefore I have no right to say what is right or wrong for u to do..nobody can..these decisions r within u

[signmeup]

Hi.  Just for clarification, I wasn't off for 8, I was off for 4 and then started to get the bad withdrawal symptoms and I didn't "go back" due to self-absorption, my first priority would obviously be the baby.  Oh, and what is an AD?

[troubleinohio]

an AD is an antidepressant

honey, I really dont know about Sub and pregnancy and Im not sure how much your OB will either. It seems a lot of doctors are really dumb about this kind of stuff.  Do you have good insurance? Can you see an addiction specialist? Also I would speak with a pharmacist about Sub and pregnancy- they really know A LOT more than any doctor does about the chemical composure and effects of all meds. I would start there.    I dont want this thread to turn into a controversial and possibly flame throwing fiasco about abortion and hope it does not.  Just make sure you think things through very very thoroughly before making ANY decision and do your homework extremely well. Educate yourself and make an informed decision-  not one of haste, and out of fear.  I do believe this baby is a blessing, and that you and he/she will get through this ok. Hang in there.  ALso, try Googling a website about Sub...if i remember correctly there is a specific forum on their website that has message boards and one of them (I THINK) even has one about pregnant women using Sub. Try to find that if you can.  Good luck, keep reading and posting!

[Holliee]

most women that get pregnant while on subs there doc switch them to subutex

[Dknd4v]

subutex can be taken while during pregnancy but there are very limited studies. most docs would have u switch to methadone very very very low dose and wean u off fast. you will be in some withdrawl slight at best if done properaly but seein how concerned u are for the life of ur child im sure a few weeks of uncomfortability is worth a lifetime of healthiness for ur baby, hope this helps..

[nursegirl6572]

First of all...you've come to the right place....this site is full of people that are compassionate and caring...and often have been thru similar.

I will say 1st that your sub dose is awfully high...especially since you've been on it long-term.  You should have decreased the dose a long time ago...just for your OWN sake.  How come you were Rx'ed so much?

You need to keep the lines of communication open with your OB....honestly, the very best thing is to come off the Sub completely BEFORE your baby is born...but you have to find out how to safely do that while pregnant.

I had a very close friend who was on a low dose Sub during her entire pregnancy (1mg or less), and her baby had some pretty significant w/d's.  Sub IS an opiate, so just as if you were using Percocets, or Vicodin....the baby goes into w/d when all of a sudden the substance isn't present anymore.  

The very best luck....you're VERY early in your pregnancy, so you have plenty of time to address this head on and fix it before the baby comes.

[toughgoing]

i went through the same thing. it sucked but i did a quick taper over 2 weeks and then quit at exactly 6 weeks of pregnancy. it was difficult but i made it through and my baby is perfect. my motivation was thinking that if my baby was born an addict he would be an addict forever. the baby's brain is forever altered by the opiate dependance even if they withdraw as a newborn. when they grow up one dose of an opiate has the potential of starting that addiction over again. just like our adult brains are never the same after addiction. the brain of the fetus starts developing at around 6 weeks so it is important to quit as soon as possible. of course this should be done with your doctor's supervision. good luck with whatever decision you make!

[leeisgettingclean]

Thank you for always being on point and always having an educated reply..it means alot to have someone around here like you...i really enjoy reading your replies and I am certain you help many

[LoandTansMom24]

I have been there. As a matter of fact, I've given birth to TWO babies while taking suboxone DAILY. Listen, please calm down. Its going to be OK. I don't care what anyone says...NEITHER one of my babies went through wds after they were born! I'm not saying that ALL babies do/don't go through wds from subs but mine didn't and my OB and all the medical staff involved with the labor and deliveries of both my children, where well aware that I was on subs. Feel free to PM me anytime!! (((hugs)))

[gnarly_1]

hi...wow your plate is full...but not hopless....first off I am a personal friend of a neo/natal
nurse thats job is bringing babys off heroin ,methadone,sub pills..ext...if all else fails
there are compassionate nurses out there that can help ween your baby off...I actuly
used her formula for getting off methadone witch is 10% every 72 hrs its what they use for the babys...after speaking with her about my own experience I asked her how the babys responded....some ok some she said you could still see the withdrawals after the methadone was stoped but all have survived...my advise to you is taper off slowly
your withdrawals as well as your babys will be minimized and there will be no need to
deal with it in the delivery room at all...tapering can be difficult but it is doable and you have some good reasons to get clean b/4 your delivery...my heart goes out to you and I will pray that you can quit and be free of the sub b/4 you deliver your baby
good luck and god bless ....Gnarly  

[avisg]

Disscuss everything with your ob you can have a happy health baby OK so dont worry yourself sick .Yes changing over the subutex is the right thing to do .Work out a taper plan to get your self slowy down to a lower dose dalily they can easly get you down to 2mg or alittle less a day .I would stay there until you deliver .Then afterword if you want to go all of the way off do it then .Some babys do have some WD but many others dont .
If the ob thinks its ok to go all the way off before birth then that is a possabilty too but do try to get on the lowest amout you can if all of the way off is not possable  .

[nursegirl6572]

lee....Thank you so much for the kind words...you put a smile on my face!

signmeup...I agree with the others not to panic.  It certainly is a scary time...but if you are 100% honest with your OB, they will develop a plan that is right for both you and baby.  If for some reason you stay on the Subs throughout your whole pregnancy, the delivery team will know just what to look for as far as withdrawals, and any other possible adverse effects, and will be at the ready to treat the baby.

I forgot that one of the sweet young girls on my staff (nursing assistant) also was on Suboxone when she found out she was pregnant. She had battled some pretty big addiction problems before that (heroin, crack, etc)...and she said that she just put her mind to it, knowing that it would be uncomfy during the taper...but that EVERY ounce of discomfort she felt was for one HUGE awesome goal...her baby.  She swore she would be 100% substance free when she brought the baby into this world...and she did it.  She did an approx 2 week taper off the Sub (per her OB)...she is due the end of Dec and is doing great.  I give her all the credit in the world...she is so young, yet she really turned her life around quickly after finding out she was going to be a Mom...even becoming a CNA in a field that is sometimes brutal...all to better her life.

Anyway, went off on a bit of a tangent, but I wanted to let you know that it IS possible to get yourself off the Sub....it wont be easy I'm sure, but goodness, SOOO worth it.  It just may take some time and work.  Just be sure that everything you do is under the care of your OB.

Hope you stick around here...you will have wonderful support and always honest advice.  The very best to you.

[febninthgirl]

First off pls don't do anything without talking to your doc. Not sure why you are on sub but if you are on it for the reasons it was really made for(HUGE ADDICTION) and not being able to stay clean,there are other meds out there that not in such a high class of narcotic. You can go to your pharmacist and they can print out the classes for them pls do not go over a class C drug. If you do however feel that you can stop and stay clean by all means go to your ob to set up a very strict and so taper for. It is better for the baby to be taper in the womb. One thing you do have going is you r only 6weeks by the time you stop your baby will be ok when bundle of joy is born. Pls don't stay on it your whole pregnancy. There is not a lot data and studies done like other meds out there. Right now you have time on your side try to relax and just make a very informed . God bless you and you baby

[signmeup]

Thanks for all the info shared.  It helped, even if all of it wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear, I needed to hear it.  Yea, I don't know WHY I was put on such a large dose in the first place.  And I'm not talking 8mg/day.  They tried to have me take 16mgs in the morning and 16 at night of suboxone when I first got on a year ago!  I KNEW this was too much, so I did 12mgs about every three days for a long time, then decided to go down to 8mgs every three days and things are fine.  Like I said, I don't even take it every day!  I actually think I can do a 2mg per day deal when I get my new meds (hold up at pharmacy), or at least be able to do 4mg!  And then see about tapering in my second trimester.  We will see.  I will also be seeing a high risk OB this Friday who specializes in opiate dependent mothers.  I'm writing my questions down for him and look forward to meeting him this friday.  I'm praying he's a nice guy - his secretary was VERY sweet.  So I'm doing what I have to do for now.  Thanks for all the support!  You're all so sweet!  I DO get some relief in hearing that your babies were fine and no withdrawals, loandtansmom, how much sub were you on?  If you don't mind me asking...I need all the stories, good or bad, I can get!  And nursegirl and gnarly, thanks so much for your info.  I need to make an informed decision.  Oh, TroubleinOhio: what website are you talking about?

[madtram]

Absolutely keep your ob/gyn informed, however from the limited number of studies, the consensus seems to be that more foetal distress may be caused by  the mother undergoing withdrawal particularly in the early developmental stages of pregnancy so it would not be recommended that you undergo a stressful withdrawal at this point.

There is a reasonably easy to read medical review at:

http://www.turningpoint.org.au/library/CTG_Bup_Pregnancy_060104.pdf

if you would like to read more for yourself.

Best wishes

[worried878]

I never meant to imply that u were self absorbed..i do know that when a erson is depressed..theybecome self absobed to protect themselves...ther becomes a lack of nrg to worry bout outside things,,,recently was in this state...hierarchy of needs is to live...and when u r depressed it is all we can do to make it thru the day much less making our friends and family problems part of our won agenda

Sub is a strong narcotic...babies born to someone on a narcotic may be addicted..being a nurse and working in the NICU i know this...and have witnessed the wds of a newborn...keeping ur OB/GYN informed is important..and u know this...but be sure to let him/her know which I am sure u have done...the aura suboxone pharmaceuticals have surrounded sub with is a bit scary...it is still a powerhouse of a narcotic..used for pain originally in other countries at ...0.02 mgs....doses here in the US r astronomical since marketing sub as an addcition drug/,maintenence drug/started making people thik they were not really on a "Narcotic"  tricky...but it is a strong narcotic..partial agonist but will put most narcs to shame as far as strength goes
Subutex and suboxone contain the same narcotic which bupe....subosone contains naloxone which prohibits shooting the drug into the veins...other than that there is no difference..altho naloxone can cause headaches and at times people r switched to subutex due to headaches..having taken both, subutex is a better high as naloxone is also an opiate blocker and a form of it is used in codes when people have ovedosed and it will block the opiates and bring them to a concious status...bupe also has a blocking effect so when u put them together I do think the high from bupe is not as good as pure bupe///subutex,,thank goodness getting high is not an objective anymore..just recalling...but do not c how subutex wouldbe safer than suboxone as far as pregnancy goes...has been a while since i worked with newborns tho and things change...but pharmaceutically it would make no sense unless headaches from naloxone were an issue

People make choices that work for them..and only the person can make those choices...a mother who relapsed due to stopping a maintenence narcotic and went into full blown addiction again is not a good choice either...as this would not help this person be  the mother they want to be..
altho my addiction occurred later in life...i do know it had an eFfect on my children..and for this I grieve almost everyday of my life

God bLesses us and helps us make wise and all we have to go on is our inner self...so we go with out gut feeling..and do the best we can..that is all we can do

[LoandTansMom24]

Hey! Hope you are doing ok. :) You are actually on a low dose compared to what I was on so that is definitely a plus for you! I was on 12 - 16 mgs DAILY! My sub doc did not switch me to subutex. She kept me on sub. My son (born on sub) will be 3 yrs old next month. And my daughter just turned 1 in Oct. Both of them are healthy, happy babies. Please keep in touch as I know this can be a very scary time and I will be glad to share any info I have with you!! Take Care!!

[signmeup]

Well folks, I just went to the specialist today that does ultrasounds.  After crying while telling him what I was really only worried about, the fact that my baby would go through withdrawals, he explained to me that yea, almost everyone who is taking an addictive substance will have their baby withdraw for a bit, but that at the same time, the withdrawal symptoms will be helped in the baby with phenobarbital.  He then asked me if I wanted to see the heartbeat.  I said yes, because at this point I was just determined to do as good as I could during the pregnancy, which was take it ONLY WHEN NECESSARY, and I was going to have my baby.  Well, as it worked out, he looked for the embryo, found it and saw that it had no heartbeat and that I had blood gathering in my cervix.  I should be having a miscarriage very soon.  I guess this was God's plan.  I am upset because of the fact that this was pretty much my last chance of having another baby, but at the same time really didn't want to have the baby go through withdrawals.  I guess God has his way of making everything happen for a reason.  Just wanted to give you guys an update.  On the bright side, though, I am ready to throw myself back into life and make it happy for the 14 year old that I DO have, my husband, and 4 stepkids (they're all older than my son, but the oldest is 22).  Life will still be good and STABLE.  I am determined to get off these f*ckin' subutex so I need Thomas' recipe, which I couldn't find in the health pages.  Does anybody know what it's under?  I really didn't know that I'd have to detox from SUB; I just found that out when I tried to do it for my pregnancy, but I guess that is the case afterall.  Currently, I am fine with God's plan and doing OK.  Thanks to everyone that was concerned.  You guys are great and I will be on this site and continue to give updates and support when I can.

[avisg]

Sign,
I am sooooooo sorry .regardless of the situation its so hard to lose a baby .Just remeber alot of the time even when they say you wont be able to have an more kids it does not happen that way .You also may be at the point where you dont feel the need to have more .I have lost a baby so if you ever need to talk pm me .Keep working on that taper so you can get off the sub .Enjoy all of the wonderful things you do have in your life we are all very blessed:)
avis

[narla]

Please read posts carefully before replying,Signmeup had an ultra sound and there was no heartbeat and blood in the cervix,She has been told she will miscarry as there is no heartbeat.what you have written could be very distressing.

[troubleinohio]

I am so sorry =(   Is there any chance it was just too early in the pregnancy to detect the HB?? I knew a few women who went for their first U/S and saw no hB and were told they would probably m/c  but then when nothing bad happened, went back for another test and the HB was there. How many weeks should you be right now? I think the HB does not start til around 5 weeks or so if I remember right. Is there any chance at all? Im not trying to give you false hope or anything, but IVe known some women who have had amazing things happen like this.
Also, never think that this would be your last chance at having a baby..many women are very fertile right after a m/c.  I have suffered many m/c's. I tried for years to have children and couldnt and then when i suddenly was finally able to get pregnant, i had a bunch of m/c's in  a row including a tubal pregnancy in my fallopian tube , but now have 2 beautiful sons.  So dont ever give up hope.
PM me anytime if you want to talk more or anything

[troubleinohio]

i just scrolled back up to your first post and see that you are only 4 weeks pregnant! That certainly could be a reason there was no HB yet! Plz dont give up hope yet, it could just be too early!!

[nursegirl6572]

melimeli---Wow, your post is uncalled for.  You are in a sense placing blame on the OP.....VERY VERRY insensitive to the OP.  If you want to try to help people in these forums...you need to be careful what you post....after all, there are people on the other side of your screen.

OP...I'm sorry about the news.  While I understand that people want to hold out hope....you all must understand that a doc can see quite a lot on an u/s.  More worrisome than the inability to find a heartbeat (which should be VISIBLE on the u/s, even at this early stage), is the collection of blood.

Now, the OP didn't state she was going to terminate the pregnancy....seems as though she is going to let nature take it's course....so if there truly IS a chance, she'll find out.  Im so sorry for the news....it's so hard.  

One thing though...maybe, in a sense...this is an opportunity for you!!!  You now know that getting off subs is adviseable for pregnant women, so you could work on that, and then try again.  There are always choices.

Again, so sorry for the news you got, hang in there, and don't hold back your feelings.  It will hit you eventually, and its tough.  

[dominosarah]

I am so sorry to hear this news......I hope you stick around the forum.      sara

[signmeup]

I'm just curious to now what meli mel said, as it would have been good to get any aggressions out on a jerk that may have said something off-color!  Nevertheless, thanks for sticking up for me to those that did!  Oh, and trubleinohio: just to clarify, the fetus was almost 5 weeks from CONCEPTION, but the docs go by gestational age which mine was 6 weeks, 6 days.  They say you should be able to hear heartbeat at 5 1/2 weeks on the chart they use.  So, I should've been able to see a heartbeat about 2 weeks ago.  Plus, there's the blood gathering thing.  It IS sad cuz I was on the net last night trying to find out more info on this, just to see if there's still hope.  I even called the hospital labor and delivery unit and asked questions and they also said unfortunately it sounds like I'll be miscarrying.  I'm thinking all fetuses follow a pretty strict schedule pertaining to how far you are along when this develops and that develops.  So I'm not counting on a "slower development than most" possibilty.  Before I get any procedure done (if needed) to make sure all the "contents" will be removed so as to avoid infection, they will be doing another ultrasound.  I will be so happy if it is there and healthy, but I'm not gonna even think about that right now.  I don't want to go through that feeling again of what I'm still trying to process.  Again, thanks for the support.  BTW, does anybody know where I can find the Thomas recipe?  I wasn't able to find it in the health pages; I don't know what it is under.  Another clarification: This isn't literally the last chance for a baby.  I'm just nearing 35 and wanted to have one sooner rather than later if I'm going to and now I have to waste yet more of my life dealing with trying to be comletely free from this sh*t.  Because I WILL NOT get pregnant and have to go through this stress regarding my baby again.

[madtram]

You sound so strong, I'm sure you will succeed with this.  Please accept some extra hugs.

The Thomas recipe link is here:-

http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Addiction/Thomas-Recipe-Re-Posted/show/16?cid=66

[dominosarah]

and here is some extra hugs from me too..........sara

[signmeup]

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for the support and the great links.  They were very informational and helpful for me at the time to figure out what I may have been dealing with.   As for now, I'm doing OK, still haven't miscarried - the docs said that could take awhile which is longer than I wish to wait so I will be taking matters into my own hands this week so as to have some control over the situation and start the life I've been waiting to start over for the past couple years.  I do believe to a certain extent that things happen for a reason and while it is extremely sad that things had to happen like this for me to realize I need to get my sh*t together, I now have turned this negative into a positive and am looking forward to the rest of my life with the wonderful family I DO have. There is still a very real possibility that one day soon, when I am completely clean, we will have another baby.  But before (or during) this happening I'm throwing myself into looking for a fun part time job, enrolling in Law School and/or opening up our family business that we've been researching off and on for the past year or so which I was unable to get off the ground due to my preoccupation with my addiction.  This major event has also caused me to open up and educate my stepkids which are all at the vulnerable age of "experimenting" about the dangers of opiates.  Anyhow, I thought I'd give you all an update since you've all been so great.  This site is a godsend for those of us who have little to nobody to talk to about all this because people NOT directly dealing with opiate addiction couldn't possibly fully understand.

[madtram]

Thanks for letting us know how you are.  This forum is a great place to be, I am always learning from the experiences of others. Best wishes for whatever you decide to do.