Thank you for your lovely words and concern. I have always viewed blogs, but never participated. I am very much an introvert, but I am scared and am so grateful for all of you...I have viewed your posts re: diet. I hope to gradually incorporate your menu into Darbie's Hill's KD and eventually be 100% "organic". She has been doing well with KD, considering her ex-vet was going down the wrong path and prescribed her Hill's ZD. I feel this may have compromised Darbie's condition. I thank God for "mother's intuition" as I changed vets and they are giving us a fighting chance. That and all the wonderful people on this website.
Thank you, Charlene. We will post Darbie's results on Thursday:)
Hi. In terms of participating, there's nothing to be scared about, I promise. The User Group is far more like family than anything else. We have people there of all levels, some are brilliant with their extensive knowledge, others are superbly empathic and supportive, while others are there purely to ask questions and receive answers. You will find a warm and supportive welcome from everyone there, so I urge you to become a member. After joining, you will get occasional updates from me and others ... and you can just view postings or take part in discussions, it's entirely up to you.
Thank you, Tony.
You were the driving force to get me on board. I will join your CKF group shortly. I read your piece on CKF, printed and have highlighted like the Bible ( adding my notes to the side! ) More informative than anything I have seen on this topic. This morning, I actually went into Amazon investigating green tripe and Salmon Oil. I ran to the market and bought whole milk yogurt and couldn't wait to give Darbie a small taste. She LOVED it! I also picked up some cans of sardines in water, rinsed them good, and have a much easier time administering her pills ( I debone and take small pieces to hide pills.) She considers this a "treat".
While I " have you on the phone", I was hoping you could help me with the egg issue re: Omega 3/Omega 6. Most websites are universal saying that egg whites are a good protein source for dogs with CKF. I have been giving Darbie the whites of a hard boiled egg, chopped and drizzled with raw (local) honey. I stir in some warm water for extra hydration. Now, I am confused with Omega 6...Am I on the right path?
Darbie gets a combo of bottled and tap water thru the day, but I think at this point in our lives, a Britta Filter in our next best household investment:)
Thank you again for your insight and thoughtfulness.
After reading my posts, it would seem my fear is derived from joining a post, but just the opposite. It is my fear of this unknown disease and the threat of losing Darbie. It seems so unpredictable, and sadly, has become a nightmare for so many beloved pet owners. I am agonizing over something I can't control. This disease has it's own design and I need to make the right moves...Sounds like a dreadful chess game of CDK, doesn't it:(
Always stick with your mother's intuition. It has served me well and brought me to this group when I knew there was more I could do for her. I had to change vet's also as the one I was using wasn't taking it seriously. My previous vet, who was the most amazing man, retired and then passed away. It has taken me a couple of years but I think I have a new vet that I trust.
Good luck tomorrow with bloodwork!! Will be waiting to hear your results!
Hi again. I have answered your question about egg whites over on the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs User Group. If you have a problem finding it, please let me know.
You are right, the disease is a real nightmare - and very complex - and there's a lot of information on the internet that, frankly, is misleading or inaccurate. No wonder then that owners get so confused and frustrated. Some vets are fantastic - while others (maybe because they are newly qualified and inexperienced) are very poor at offering tailor-made treatment plans. Every dog is different, and although there are remedies to help ease things, of course ... there is no cure. All we can do is our very best to help. I have learned so much over recent years, but sometimes with all the best will in the world and even with the most up-to-date advice, things can go badly.
I hope this forum and more so the User Group will help you and your best friend live with the kidney disease for as long as is humanly possible ... and with the best quality of life it is possible to achieve.
Your story is very similar to mine. There has been a "changing of the guard" with many elder vet. practices over the years in my area. Amazing, I look back and remember how uncomplicated things were. My family used the same Dr./practice for 25 years. Our many beloved pets lived to 14-16+ yrs of age. Now our babies need a legion of annual vaccinations which may be creating compromised immune systems and misdiagnosis. This seems to be a pattern I've fallen into over the previous years. At this time, I pray I have found a Dr. for Darbie who will help us pick up the pieces from here. That and all who have poured their hearts out on these pages.
Yes, I will post Darbie's results tomorrow...Thank you for keeping us in your prayers:)
Yesterday was Darbie's blood test:
Crea= 6.2 BUN=56 ...Double from April:(
Dr. Vet looked at me hard and said "NO" do not classify as stage 4! We believe! So Darbie is staying on KD diet with extra sub Q fluids. I bought green tripe and salmon oil. Just short of Heaven and Earth, I will do the best I can until Darbie smiles at me and shows me our last goodnight lullabye. Peace & Comfort to all.
Hi Lynne. The results are not good, but certainly not the worst I have seen. Talk to your vet about a diuretic called Mannitol, which may help Darbie produce more urine and therefore flush out more of toxins. This can be helpful in reducing creatinine, which is the higher of the two readings (BUN is about 200% more than normal, while creatinine is about 500% higher). You are doing all the right things ... renal diet, IV fluids, caution with anything containing protein and/or phosphorus. It's probably a waiting game to see if the levels reduce. The green tripe and salmon oil should also help, and I would also ask the vet about any vitamin supplements that might be needed.
I'm not sure what your vet has suggested, but I would hope another blood test in about a month may be very beneficial to see if things are heading the right way. I would suggest if the next results are static or starting to reduce, then that would be a reassurance.
My thoughts are with you. I know this is a dreadfully stressful and worrying time. Be strong.
Although Darbie's numbers are higher, don't get discouraged yet. Sammie's numbers were higher but once I started with cooking and all the other things we're doing, her numbers went down. Hope Darbie will follow suit,
I know it's temporary but as you said we will do all we can until our babies tell us otherwise.
This disease is so startling. It seems once I got my mind wrapped around a course of action, I'm filled with uncertainty. At this time, I feel safer focusing on the KD ( she loves the lamb ) as my vet has prescribed and keep good quality proteins to a safe minimum due to increased creatinine values. I know once the green tripe arrives, I will probably rely on that to hide Darbie's ever growing number of pills. There is no doubt in my mind she will love green tripe...We are heading out to Cape Cod for 2 weeks and I'm nervous. Darbie loves vacationing in the RV by the seashore. Due to the weakness in her back legs, we invested in a portable pet loader stairs so she can get in and out of RV easier. I am also bringing Darbie's records in the event of an emergency. There are 2 vets in town whom I will e-mail Monday and discuss my concerns.
Thank you again for your kindness:)
Lynne & Darbie
Hi I have read your post and I have to say Your the top. I to have a 7 year old dog name grace. She came down sick 4 weeks ago. We first took here to the vet and they said she had a server sore throat. she would not eat or drink for two days. He give her a shot of antibiotic, shot of remadel for pain, and a shot for her upset. Then send her home with pill of antibiotic. I could not get her to take the pill. So the next day she was back at the Vets and Got a other shot of very strong antibiotic. 3 day later she was back at the vets on a Sunday for more antibiotic and other meds, They took a Xray, and blood work then give her a IV fluids. Her bun was 45. She then started get the IV fluids 3 times a week. I just took her back for a check up and her bun where 46. Now she is at home eating home cooked mails 3 times a day and she is keeping it down OK. She is drinking good. She is pass pop OK they look if. Will formed. She is more like her self. What I was hoping to fine is bun at 46 bad. Can it go down. I just started her on Fish oild for dags, and the Vet said I can try Aventi KP and aventi KS to help support her Kidneys. When I took her to the vet on Friday for the Iv. they let me do it so if I need to do it at home I can. Do you think we got the blood work in time. Can you help me. Happypapa.
Hi I just send a post to DarbiesMon I was trying to send it to you. I new at this and need some help. Is bun 46 high. My dog is doing very will at this time. This all can down from have a very bad cols and sore throat. jr.
Hi. BUN 46 is high, but not beyond getting under control. Do you know what the Creatinine level is (sometimes shown on results as CREA)? Also, what is the Phosphorus level?
Rather than fish oil, look around for salmon oil, as this is much better. Also, the most important thing right now is to switch to a renal diet. What are you feeding her (I understand you are home-cooking, but what are you cooking)? The Aventi KP and KS may help ... it has some good reviews, though I don't know enough about it to offer an opinion.
Please join the CHRONIC KIDNEY FAILURE IN DOGS User Group, as people there may be able to offer much more support and advice.
I recently joined this forum about 6 days ago seeking out support and advice due to my growing concerns with Darbie. Everyone here has been amazing sharing their stories and offering a bounty of hope. Please stay in touch with tonyb286 especially as he is very knowledgeable with all stages of kidney disease and very committed to assist you in every possible way.
Finding this forum was a great blessing for you and Grace. I wish you the best and know you are in great hands:)
I'm not as medically knowledgeable as Tony but I can tell you Sammie's BUN was higher and through following everyone's advice on feeding, her numbers went down. See Tony's questions on Grace's other numbers.
Salmon oil is much better than fish oil for this disease. A little pricey but I'd do anything for my baby as most of the people on this sit would do.
Also, filtered or purified water. I never even thought about the minerals in the tap water!!
Charlene, what we do for love:)...We've been RVing for 15 years with our dogs as I suffer such separation anxiety! In this chapter of our lives, Darbie is our best friend & constant companion. SHE MAKES THE TRIPS SO JOYFUL and brings out the child in us:). Last year, I left for Sydney, Australia with my brother for 2 weeks ( company trip ) and I emailed Darbie everyday.The morning I finally rolled home was 2:30am and she was there bursting at the seems...I burst more:). We are inseparable. As we picked up the RV from storage today, she was excited! I just took her outside to do her #'s and she stood at the RV door wagging her tail:). We are very encouraged as she has been somewhat blue these days. She remembers:)
I loved reading this post. What a great reaction from Darbie....this trip will be great for her ... and you.
I suffer the same separation anxiety!! I don't ever like to leave my babies!! I have to go in the hospital for three days and I'm more worried about Sammie than me!! My husband has been listening to my daily instructions and constant "make sure you" comments. Tonight he had to learn how I prepare her food. He loves her as much as I do so I know she'll be well taken care of.....but I hate that I'll be gone.
I am sending YOU best wishes for good health & healing. Under any situation, hospital stays are no picnic, especially when you have a pup at home searching every corner of the house for you! I am sure your husband is wise to your comments! I know for myself, I've gotten to be quite the control monster as I've aged. I have plastered rules and agendas thru out the house for Darbie's sake:)...Hey, whatever makes ME feel good, right?! It's understandable if you are the primary caregiver for your pup...CKD is complicated. So, with much great faith, I wish you wellness, Charlene:)
Hi I took her to the vet today They had to give her to shot 1 because she started rubbing her but on the ground and got it sore. the other was a antibiotic to help with the sours on her bud from the rubbing. Her blood test 8 days agoe showed the bun at 46 and the creatinine was 2.7. They are going to retake them in 2 weeks. I just started give her 1000 of the cold water salmon oil this morning it is K9 Omega and just srarted the Aventi KP and Aventi KS this morning. Just got it in the mail to day. I ordered it Friday and It was here in the mail this morning. They are going to check back with me in 2 weeks to see how she is doing. For home cooking she is getting red meats, and other meats. No dog food or treats. thanks jr.
Omega K9 for dogs a good fish oil. And is just get water from the filter. No more tap water. She will not eat any kind of dog food. We are just trying to keep some kind of good cooked meats in her. She is drink OK. And the vet just give her 200 cc in a IV. She will get the 3 times a week. They let me do it So I cam do it at home or In our RV if needed. She was first getting 400 cc now she is down to 200 cc. What can we try to feed her that is good for this. jr/
thanks for getting back. We need all the help we can get. We try to get her to eat home cooked meats. She will not eat any dog food at this time. She has just started eating about 6 days ago. But she is keeping it down when she dose eat and she is drinking OK. We took her garge saleing sat. She drink a lot of water we took for her she loved that. But she had to go to the vet to day for her 8 trip for the IV fluids. I just got the fish oil in the mail to day it is Omega K9 for dogs. I think this is OK. and I just started her on the Aventi KP and Aventi KS. I talked to my VET about it and he said to give it a try. She will get her blood done in 2 weeks. Hope they are going down. They where bun 46 and the Creatinine was 2.7. They said the normal high for the bun is 31 mg and the Creatinine is 1.5. thanks jr.
Hay Tony I Just order the pure Alaska Omega 3 1000 mg 100 0/0 Natural wild Alaskan Salmon oil. Is that the right ones. I will do the best for my dog to help her live a better life. Let me know if you have any more info that may help. thanks a friend. jr.
Hi. Yes, the salmon oil is fine - just double check the ingredients and let me know if it says anything that's in it other than pure salmon oil. Give about a teaspoon a day, sprinkled over food. As for feeding ... have you tried green tripe? You can get this in frozen blocks (that's the best) at really good pet stores, but you may need to ask about it because (obviously) they keep it in a freezer. If you can get it, cook it in a microwave, allow to cool then chop up a little and mix with boiled white rice for bulk. You can sprinkle the salmon oil on it or even a teaspoon of natural honey for taste. Most dogs enjoy green tripe, even though it stinks when being cooked. It's full of good nutrients for dogs with kidney failure and is low in phosphorus.
The IV fluids should really help flush the toxins out, so fingers crossed for the next blood results.
Have a read of this (not sure if I mentioned it earlier). It's a useful reference for kidney failure and suitable diet: http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease
Also, if you haven't already done so, join the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs USER GROUP, where you will get lots more help, support and advice.
Hi Tony I think I may have walked her to much today or the shot her made her lay and sleep a lot. I hope she is OK. I have to walk her to get her to go to the bath room. They cut her down to 200 cc in the Iv today. I hope that is OK. But she is just not her self tonight. Hay what is Green Tripe. She eat steak to night. She loved it. We try not to give her to much but she keeps looking for more. I got 3 emails from the comp that makes the Aventi they said if at times I can not get her to eat I can give it to her with by mouth. jr.
Hay Tony did you see the numbers I send you her bun was 46 and the Creatinine was 2.7 a week ago. she is resles to nigh. She is fast to sleep right now under my bed. I will let you now she is doing in the morning. I think I will cut the walks down 1 in the morning and one about 7 pm. That is how I can get her to go to the bath room. She used to go to the door to go out but not now. jr.
To Tony or anyone who can help, not trying to hijack this thread but this is the first thread I have seen that is up to date on this issue. My best friend and mini-schnauzer, Vinny was diagnosed with kidney failure today. I am devastated. I had them give him and IV and I have been giving him water at home by hand. My question is what should I do. THey made me feel like he is not going to make it more than a week. From what I read though some dogs get treatment and live for a few years. I don't want to prolong his suffering but I don't want to give up prematurely.
BUN greater than 130
Creat is greater than 4.8
PHOS is greater than 16.1
He has been sick for about a week, but he has been sickly his whole life so we tried to nurture him at home until we realized this was something more serious. Also he has lost a lot of weight.
Hello. I am very sorry about the diagnosis. I have to say, the blood levels do not look good and are amongst the highest I have seen for quite some time. The likelihood is that your best friend has been progressing with kidney failure for some substantial period of time and certainly several months if not years. The problem is, dogs tend not to show symptoms until the kidney function is down to about 25%, and by then it's often too late to do very much.
IV fluids need to be fairly intensive right now to get his levels down as much as possible, but it would probably take hospitalization and round the clock care to achieve it, and the question is do you want to inflict this on Vinny, given that it may or may not help.
I wish I could offer better advice. My thoughts are truly with you at this very stressful and upsetting time.
Hi. Yes, her levels are still too high, so keep up the fluids. The fluids will help flush the toxins from her body. Mild exercise is good, but too much will weaken her - be aware she needs all her energies to fight the kidney problems. Green tripe is available from good pet stores (MUST be green tripe, not the white tripe intended for human consumption).
Fingers crossed for the next blood levels coming down.
Hi Tony I talked to my Vet toady about green tripe and they said they never used it so they would not say to try it on my dog with out talking to a other Vet that has used it. She is still eating and drinking today. I plan on keeping the walks just in the morning and after diner. That will just be a mild walk. She is sleeping a lot to day but I think it is the heat and would the new meds I'm trying on her. She get her IV in the morning again. Do you know of any VETs that like the Green Tripe. I just don't know if she will east it. jr.
Hi. Sorry to say this, but many vets are paid to authorize or recommend particular manufactured dog foods by the pet industry and these are very often the worst kinds of foods (such as dry dog food). I would strongly suggest you do your own research into green tripe on the internet and come to your own conclusion. If a vet hasn't used or hasn't read up on the value of green tripe, then I am not so sure how experienced or knowledgeable they might be. Green tripe has been used successfully with dogs for many many years and in more recent years it has been highly recommended in kidney failure, because of high quality nutrients, excellent minerals and vitamins and low phosphorus content.
I am not saying use it all the time, but when a CKF dog starts refusing some foods, green tripe can be the answer, as most dogs absolutely love it.
Hay Tony I think your right about VETs. But I think I'm going to try the aventi ks and kp She has had it 3 times and she is doing OK. We will see how she is in a day or two. She is eating a lot of cooked red meats. and wild rice. She eats in the morning and at night. She is drinking very good today. We just went for a ride in the truck and I had some water with us and she drank 1/2 of the 18 oz. She is resting good and going out about ever 3 hours to pee. So I hope thing are going OK. But she will not eat the dog food she was on before she got sick. jr.
Hi. It's interesting she is refusing the food she had when she was sick. I have explained this psychological situation in my article here: http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease
Have a read, if you haven't already done so. When dogs start refusing foods, it is usually because of association with feeling sick and it can become a really difficult vicious circle later on when this disease progresses. I often ask people to try rotating a 3-day cycle of foods at that stage, because over 3 days dogs tend to forget what they ate 3 days earlier, so the association can be overcome.
Anyway, that's something for later on, which you might bare in mind. For now, it sounds like you are doing great and so is Grace.
Thanks for that it makes me feel good know some people do care. She was eating Porplan dog food from the Vet. Then they give me some food good for the kidneys and she just tryed that 1 bit and that was it. Is deer meat good for her she loved that tonight. I got a other email from Aventi they told me to give her the right dose that it calls for 1 1 /2 KP in the morning food and 1 1/2 scoops in the night meal. That is the full 3 small scoops she need. jr.
Hi. I live in the UK where deer is very uncommon as a food source, and even more uncommon ever to feed a dog with it. I did however check a few things out and found this:
"While vension is a good source of protein, feeding raw game can expose you and your dog to the rabies virus and Chronic Wasting Disease. The only way to kill the rabies virus is through cooking. Freezing the meat does not kill the virus. Also, in recent years, Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) has become more prevalent in the deer population. I would only feed farm raised deer from a reliable source, to insure that you are not exposing yourself and your dog to either disease."
I am told deer is very similar to beef, with similar consistency and nutrition, so in theory, as long as the source is reliable and safe, it should be okay.
I hunt Deer where we are and we eat a lot of it. So I know where the deer came from. We cook all the meal we give her she eats the same meal we do. Where we live you never see the (CWD) I know way down state they have seen some but very low numbers. I have been eating it for years I get 2 or 3 each year. And I found out today she loves it. So she will be getting Beef, Deer,and chicken. how about Pork the white meat and Fish. She gose back to the VET in the morning. They charge me $15.00 for each trip. jr.
Hi. The thing to aim for is to lower the creatinine, BUN and phosphate to within normal range. This isn't always possible, but with good diet management, high quality protein in small amounts (or a manufactured renal dog food), anti-nausea meds when needed, phosphate binder when needed, the use of nitrogen trapping and other interventions along the way (as things change) ... you will be doing the best you can to help your dog survive for as long as possible, and with a good quality of life. It's an uphill struggle sometimes, and there can be bad days as well as good ones.
I would suggest regular blood testing (at least once every couple of months) just to see whether any minor alterations to diet and meds needs doing.
Her I just got a email form Georgina Craig how is from Aventi. They are from Italy to I think. They said to give her 1 1/2 Smail scoops of KS in the morning 1 hour before mails and 1 1/2 before night meals. Then give her 1 1/2 of the kp with the meals. She said the KS sould bring her numbers down. So she is trying to help. Look that comp up and see with you think. Manufactured in Italy by: Candioli Pharma. ***@**** thanks jr.
Hi. I have heard positive things about Aventi KS, but these are mostly word-of-mouth reviews by owners, nothing from the scientific or veterinarian side of things. I can only suggest trying it, as anything that helps ... right? I would add that it is important to use it in combination with other veterinarian recommended therapies, medicines and diet control.
But who knows. Maybe it works wonders in doing what it says, that is, controlling metabolic imbalances and reducing azotemia, among other things. Let's hope so.
she is eating and drinking good after starting taking it. But she like to sleep and rest a lot. But if you say walk or ride she is up and set to go. so I will let you know how she is doing next week. thanks jr.
Hi tony I was just looking at the paper work I got on that order for the fish oil. It said it is Pure Alaska Omege 3 1000 mg 100 Natural wild Alaskan Salmon OIL. Is that what I was to get. Boy she is more like her self night. She was runing around the yard to night barking at some dog going down the road. It has been 2 weeks that she has done that. She eat good today to. let me know about the Salmon oil I have coming. As soon as I get it I will start useing that. Thanks again for your help. jr.
Hi Jr (is that Junior or JR?). Yes, the salmon oil sounds exactly what you need. Just one teaspoon of it on her food each day should be perfect for her. Hope things stay stable and she continues enjoying her life. Isn't it great when sick dogs get their bark back, ha. Tony
hay tony I had to take the dog to the vet last night she just blacked out in the yard. The vet said her heart rate was very low. He told me to stop giving her the meds that I got for her till they check to see if one of them would do it. She may be getting to much or taking the 2 at the same time may be to much for her. Can you check the items in the med that I told you about. She is doing OK this morning. Junior.
Hi Junior. When you say "meds", I assume you mean the Aventi ks? I have no idea about the Aventi nutritional supplements, except they do say it can regulate an irregular heartbeat, so there must be something in it that has an effect on the heart. Your vet is the best to advise and if he says don't use it while he's checking, then that's the right advice. Tony
Hi Jr. I would be really interested in why your vet thinks the KP is okay but the KS shouldn't be given, only because I can't see anything in the ingredients that is a worry (folic acid, ascorbic acid, potassium citrate, B12, etc.). As I don't know much about the product, it might be useful information - should anyone else ask about it. Tony
they said that there think because the two have Potassium that she may be getting two much of it because it dose something to the heart muscels. they said two much potassium is not good. But will will try. She is just laying a round today. They said what happel she passed out. They feel it was not any thing to do with the kidneys. jr.
Hay tony she is not fighting any more. She when down again and could not get back up. So I had to do the right thing and put a end to her pain and being like that. She is with god right now and with my other dogs that have pass. She will be at the gate when I get there. Thanks for all your help and time. You right the kidneys are a bad way to go. And I hope some day they can help them get better then let them die like that. jr.
Oh dear. I am so very sorry, Junior. Sometimes, it's their time to leave us ... and they just give up. It's very sad that only a day ago she seemed okay, running around and barking at other dogs. You tried your best, but it wasn't meant to be. I hope you are okay. Come back and talk anytime you feel the need.
hay it is hard for me to do right now but can you let the people on here know that a other best mans friend has been lots to this bad sicknes. I thank all of them for the time to they have gave. thanks jr.
It is very hard. She was the world to me. I'm 63 years old and 100 0/0 S/C vet from the nam war. I have a very bad heart but she gave me a kiss then she was gone. I will not be on here any more. Hope you can help some one new. Good by. jr.
Tony.....so sad about Jr but you were your usual wonderful person with your advice. Wish I had had a chance to give him my condolences. So sorry he won't be joining us again. I worry so about the ones who don't come back and let us know how they are!! Keep up the great advice. Sammie and I really appreciate it!!
Hi Jr ... just in case you are still connected to the thread ... I hope you won't leave us just yet. We are here for support as well as info and advice. Sometimes it helps just talking about our best friend's when they have had to leave us. Grieving is tough, but it does ease over time. If you want to tell us more about Grace and the wonderful life you shared with her, please do. Hope to hear from you again soon. Tony
Hay Tony I just had to check in. I'm doing a little better today. I know in my heart I did the right thing. She is in a better place where she dose not have to fight to get up and move. Or try to eat and drink to keep going. The Dr. gave me some meds to help me. I have server P,T,S from the service. So it is harder for me to deal with it.
Now that is over I would like to ask you one thing Way can't they use the kidneys from a Lamb to replace the bad kidney on a dogs. They change the kidney in man why can't the train the vets to do that. I know they kill 1000 a day in the U,S, a day. They could save all or most. I know it is to late for my pet but what about others. If they are a lot of people that read this site way can't some one that has the power and know how to get someing made up and push then in the house to fund something like this. jr.
I saw your post and thought I would reply as well. There is now the possibility of kidney transplants for dogs and cats. However, they are only done in a few animal hospitals in this country and they are very expensive (at least over 5k) and the dog, or cat, has to be placed on immunosuppressant medication long-term which can cost as much as 10k a year. Obviously, this is out of reach for all but the wealthy. Even if the cost is not a problem for someone, the risk of failure or organ rejection is high. To my knowledge, using kidneys from another animal species is not doable anyway. I am sorry about the loss of your dog. Obviously you loved him dearly. You can take solace in the fact that you gave him a good life. Best to you, Robert
Hi Junior. I'm pleased you came back to us. Robert has given the right answer to your question. Cross-species kidney transplant doesn't work, due to both sets of kidneys being designed (by the species) to do slightly different things - and because of rejection by the body of what is effectively a foreign organ entering the body. This is also a problem in kidney transplantation between dogs, and the surgery has only a small percentage chance at success. The cost for the initial surgery (which is done in some countries) is indeed £5,000+, but the ongoing cost of meds, aftercare and so on can take that figure up to £15,000+. There is also kidney dialysis available for dogs, but that is equally prohibitive in cost to most people.
The other problem in donation is that (usually) someone has to present a living dog to volunteer for the surgery. Most dogs that die, die because they are ill or old and frail - which usually makes the procedure unsuitable. Therefore, it needs to be a living healthy dog that donates - and that means inflicting severe surgery and potentially prolonged ill-health on another dog, without it's consent. This makes even the decision very difficult, never mind the surgery itself.
Quite a few of the practices that undertake kidney transplant also (rightly in my view) make sure you take on the immediate aftercare and lifelong care of the dog doing the donation of a kidney. So, you go into surgery with one dog and come out of it owning two, both of which need substantial care and treatment - all of which of course doubles the cost.
There is little research statistics available for dogs, but more so in cats, where transplantation is more widely used and it is more successful. Even with this, the success rate is not great - only 50% survive the first 3 years. The University of California reckon the success rate in dogs is only 40% survive to 3 years after surgery.
Hope that helps explain this complicated situation a little more.
Hi Jr....glad you came back to us. I am so sorry about your baby.....please know you did the most unselfish act you could have for her. Although it doesn't help with the grief, she is no longer suffering!
We are here for you and understand your grief all too well.
So glad you are home and doing well! Sammie/Babies must have burst at the seams when they saw their Mommy! Yes indeed, Hubby did great!
We had a scare with Darbie's health. Just before leaving, she was barely eating, drinking or moving as her hind legs lost so much muscle. I was losing hope. We had nothing to lose at this point but take a leap of faith and throw the rule book away. While in the Cape, we stopped her prescription renal diet ( which she suddenly refused to eat ) and all meds
( she hid them in her mouth and spit them out behind our backs! ) We maintained IV fluids & fed her small meals of pasta mixed with 4% cottage cheese w/ chicken, steak or fish. Watermelon
(cubed and chilled) was a favorite. She perked up within days and even enjoyed the beach:) It was truly a blessing.
She sleeps a lot, but seems content, has interest in food and water, and surprises us with playful moments! She is attached to me more than ever... We will focus on quality of life until she let's us know otherwise.
hi you all. will i did it i got a new pupy. her name is Bella and she is a 10 week old Weste. My wife is not to happy she said no more but I got my way. I have had a dog in my life for 50 years and I we not stop now. I will always think about my other pets and know they are no longer in pain. and I will see them again someday. But for now I will live the rest of my life trying to be happy. Wish you all good luck with your pet and injoy all the time you have them in your hearts. jr.
Hi Jr......I'm so happy to hear about your new pup!!! We never forget the babies we've had to send to heaven but it's a nice feelng to give a new dog such a loving, caring home!! She will melt your wife's heart quickly. When we adopted Sammie all those years ago, my husband didn't want to get her. Now they are best buds!!
I have gradually caught up on many posts since I was away. I was so very sad that Gracie left us, but she is in great peace. You truly loved her with your heart and soul. ..I loved my dog companions since childhood. I see you have Bella in your life now and I wish you all the happiness in the world.
My 9 year old Sheltie has been diagnosed with severe Kidney Failure. I searched the internet and only found Pet Wellbeing brand Kidney Support Gold for Dogs and Cats. I've been giving it to him for 4 days, no noticeable improvement yet. There were 168 positive reviews on the web site from customers that did see improvements with this product . I'm hoping we will be another success story. Here's the web site in case anyone is interested. http://www.petwellbeing.com
Hello and welcome to this thread. I was sorry to read about your dog's diagnosis. Please go to the CHRONIC KIDNEY FAILURE IN DOGS User Group (use the Forum button at the top of the page, hover over it and when the drop-down menu opens, click on User Groups, then put Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs in the search bar). Once you get to the User Group, please join and feel free to post any questions you may have, as you will certainly get both excellent support and information from other dog owners on managing this dreadful canine condition.
You might also want to have a read of my article on canine kidney failure and diet here:
I don't know much about Pet Wellbeing brands, but you may be interested to know there are lots of low protein diets available on the internet and at local pet supply stores. The link below tells you about why low protein diets are generally advised and at the end of the article you will find a long list of suitable dog foods.
Well I know it's been a while since I have been on here and unfortunate I have bad news. Yesterday Tag lost his fight 18 days short of his 2nd birthday.. He went so fast. The night before he wouldn't eat, he would cry when you picked him up under his arms and he wouldn't even play out in the grass which was his absolute favorite thing to do. Yesterday morning hr just gave up. He couldn't walk or lay down and cried every time he moved.. I knew he was suffering and I just couldn't let him suffer anymore. He is pain free and hopefully in heaven running in the warm grass. I'm having such a hard time.. He was my baby. I know it was the right thing to do but everything I do reminds me of him. I had him cremated today and I will pick him up tomorrow and I know I will break.. It's just hard to lose my fur baby.. I loved him so much :(
Hi. I am so sorry. I was reading your last post on May 16th and it seemed even then things weren't going well. Sometimes, the disease has just progressed too much and despite all best efforts, the inevitable happens all too quickly. That said, I believe you gained some precious weeks, maybe even months, by doing all that you did for Tag.
I know just how traumatic and heartbreaking this is. The depth of loss is indescribable. And there will be days ahead that are going to be hard, but we are here - as friends - for support whenever you want or need it. My heart truly goes out to you.
I've been online trying to find out when I will know it's time to euthanise my little dog. I rescued her in Israel in 1998. She is 17-19 years old. She had been abused and to this day,, that still makes her nervous at times. She is in the end stages of renal failure and I believe it's time now for me to let her go. I'm sobbing as I type this.
She had a horrible night last night, vomited a lot over my bedroom floor and has changed so much in the last two weeks. She is thin, weak and just fell for the first time. She is so very wobbly on her feet.
I grew up with animals and putting a pet to sleep is nothing new to me. I had to decide to put to sleep the last dog I had (when I was 24). I will call the vet tomorrow and have it done at home as my dog (officially called Amber but we call her Poocle) is terrified of the vet and I don't want her last moments to be full of fear.
She was diagnosed with renal failure about four years ago. The vet isn't sure how she has lasted this long! I am disabled and spent 99% of my time at home. Among other issues, I had an accident in 2006. Injured my pelvis and spent three years straight stuck in bed. She was my shadow. She has been my constant companion for 16 years. I feel like she is part of my identity! But I know I am now keeping her here for me. She is suffering. The way she moves, the stiffness, the weightloss, not eating and drinking like she used to...
The sparkle in her eye seemed to have faded last night.
I am almost tempted to call the out of hours vet and have him come do it today (It's a Sunday) as the thought of her having another unpleasant night just breaks my heart. I will call the vet in the morning and hope he can do it tomorrow. I am going to miss her so much.
The only downside of pets is when it is time to make this decision and say goodbye. When we are keeping our pet for ourselves and not for them, then it is time to say goodbye. I know this, I am just so sad. My eyelids are swollen from tears! My son is away with his grandmother on holiday. He said his goodbye when he left. He does't want to be around when Poocle goes. He has just turned 12.
Hello. There are no words of comfort I can give you, except to say ... we do empathise with you and your situation. If you haven't seen it, please go to the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs User Group. Everyone there has gone through or is currently going through this dreadful disease with their best friends, so they all understand how hard it is.
I'm not going to second-guess the circumstances or the situation, because I think you have clearly come to your decision - and sadly, while sympathetic dog owners might want to help in any way they can, this is your decision to make, and no one else's. It is - as you know - the last act of kindness and love that many of us have to face at some stage. It IS the hardest thing in the world.
If you feel the time has come, then yes, getting a vet to visit your home would be the best way - because she will feel reassured by her surroundings and of course by you. You may want to have a read of my article ...
as it may be comforting and reassuring. I hope so, anyway. Please come back and talk to us. We are here as a group of dog lovers not just for information, but for support too. I know tomorrow will be the hardest of days, but remember what you have given Poocle ... a full, loving and adventurous life, which she certainly wouldn't have had were it not for you. These may be the worst of days, but try to remember all the wonderful days, months and years she has had.
Well it's been a little over a week since I had to say goodbye to Tag. I can say each day gets a little easier. I try to remember his good days when he use to run and play and smile all the time. He was such a love bug and a total mommys boy (which I was completely fine with). It really got better once I picked up his ashes and brought him home as weird as tangy may sound but I wanted him home. The hardest part now is watching my other dog who is a couple years older than Tag go looking for his brother in all his usual spots and not finding him. At first he wouldn't eat or drink. There was no sparkle or life to his eyes.. He was soo sad. Slowly he has started again but every time he hears a dog barking he goes running looking for his buddy.. It's just heartbreaking. They were so close and did everything together. When Tag was having a bad day Coal would just go and lay next to him and rest his head on him and not leave his side. Coal knew Tag was sick and something wasn't right his last day but you can't explain things to a dog..
Hi. These are hard days - and in the weeks that come, things may seem to get better by small degrees. But, you may already be aware, there will also be days when you wake up and feel Tag in your heart and mind so strong that the day becomes hard to get through. This is grieving - and it takes it's own good time.
Your post about Coal reminded me about my two dogs. Giro (still with me) was BB's best buddy too and when she passed (is it really three years ago, wow) Giro sat in the hallway staring at the front door for what must have been a week. He hardly moved, except to eat and drink. It was utterly heartbreaking to witness. But, day by day, he became more himself - just as I did - and now he has another companion, Sally the greyhound, who he follows much like he did with BB. What's interesting is, I have a photo of BB in the hallway, and every now and then when I come down the stairs I say "Hi BB" just in passing ... and when Giro's close by, his ears stand to attention and he looks at the door, as if thinking she's back. I sometimes burst into tears when I see this happen - and other times I just comfort him and say, hey, everything's okay.
Dogs are amazing. Tag was amazing - and so too is Coal - and in time, you and Coal will be just fine, though neither of you will ever forget Tag. Tag is safe, warm and cosy in your heart. Hoping you are okay with me blabbing on ... sometimes we just find there are days we need to talk about those we have lost, and remember them as they deserve to be remembered.
I totally understand just the need to talk about the good times you had with BB. It's been just over two weeks and Coal is finally eating but other than that he is still just laying around not wanting to play or do anything. One thing Tag use to love doing was to lay on the table and look out the window. He wouldn't bark or anything just watch outside. Well shortly after Tag passed Coal took over his spot on the table and he just sits there- it completely shattered my heart.
I did get another puppy a few months ago because I knew deep down that Tag probably wouldn't be able to maintain much longer and I wanted to try to ease Coal into the transition as Coal is not very dog friendly but oddly enough has never had a problem with any puppy me or my brother have brought home. A crazy thing happened but I wasn't even looking for another puppy but I saw a place was getting the exact breed I was looking into getting in a few weeks and they only had one boy in the litter and I wanted a male. I think it was a sign or maybe just luck- who knows. But I never saw a picture of Bender before I got him, I told them I didn't need to see him before hand, but I was stopped dead in my tracks when I went to pick him up and he looked exactly like Tag. Bender still looks and acts exactly like Tag. Some days this is hard but mostly it makes things better. It's the little things that really hit me the hardest like coming home and I know Tag isn't going to meet me at the door anymore.. But anyways now I'm rambling!
Yes, dogs are truly our most extraordinary friends and companions, and when they have to leave us - it's heartbreaking. I agree, it is the little things that are the hardest to deal with, but gradually, those will be easier. It just takes time. You are in my thoughts.
I adopted My little toy Pomeranian, TeddyBear about 4 or 5 years ago and at the time I adopted him I was told he had an enlarged heart and poor kidney function. He never ever acted lethargic or had any symptoms Except maybe that he always did need to drink more water than my other dogs. Other than the water though he really didn't have any other symptoms for the entire time 4 or 5 years I've had him until RECENTLY. A few weeks ago he started to get picky about what flavour of the raw diet we feed him he would eat. Over the past few weeks he has gotten so picky that he would only eat the raw beef but NOW suddenly he won't even eat THAT and 2 days ago he had 7 big seizures that lasted 2 minutes! He will eat people food NO PROBLEM, BY THE WAY. He hasn't had any more seizures in 3 days now and although he won't eat dog food he is VERY interested in our people food still so I seriously am confused because other than the sudden seizures that came and went and other than the super finicky appetite, there are no other new symptoms to indicate end stage CRF. Is it possible that he is in end stage without any pain or vomiting or diarrhea or constipation etc??? He is very lethargic but if I force KD into him by diluting it with water and using a syringe or if I let him eat people food, then he has energy again and acts normal and even barks and walks around. I don't know what is going on or what to do. We went out and bought every brand of raw dog food we could find and we bought 7 different brands and flavours of wet dog food including the KD AND MEDICAL. And he won't eat any of them HOWEVER he is extremely interested in our people food! He will eat lots of people food if we let him.
Any comments or ideas or advice?
Thank you.. Yes we are doing a little better. I am trying.. I know not taking care of myself won't bring Tag back or be good for coal and bender either. The last week or two have been hard.. I seem to have a little break down about every 2-3 days but slowly I know I will be okay and it will just take time.
My last "baby" passed away over five years ago and I still cry my eyes out every now and then. At least now I can talk about her with a smile but it's weird how something hits me and sends me into a crying fit!!!
They're our babies....we will love and remember them forever!!
Charlene, you seem to have had such success with extending the life of your Sammie. I cannot get my Millie to eat at all. She is on sub cut drips 800 - 1000 mls daily. She was diagnosed two weeks ago with CKD and ate until three days ago. She fell on salmon initially which we have plenty of in Tasmania, Australia but won't touch this now either. I have tried tiny serves of organic chicken and potato but cannot get her to eat. Last night she had a little diahorrea and vomited yellow bile twice.
I had been getting Ipakitine into her sprinkled on food until now. She has Zantac and homeopathic drops in her water to contol phosphorus levels. I asked the vet to put Maxolin in her sub cut drip and he has also put Vit B in it for energy. BUT I cannot get her to eat.
She is sleepy but also going up and downstairs, walking in the garden. Very dull eyed. But aware. I have read this thread from its very beginning and have read some horror stories about how ill, black tongued, vomit seizures et al. I do not want her to go through this but if she will not eat at all she will die. Please help.
I read some amazing testimonials from Five Leaf Pharmacy in America. What do you guys think about its results?
I have a Westie with CKD. I cannot get her to eat...anything. I have tried everything shredded chicken, coconut oil, KD tinned food, shredded lamb, green tripe. She was diagnosed two weeks ago and since then her appetite has declined daily.
It's as if she has made up her mind to not eat.
I am giving her Maxolon in her sub cut with Vit B to counter nausea. I bought Co Q 10 capsules and Vit E gel capsules but cannot get them into her. Any ideas. The vet is suggesting euthanasia but she is still walking, with difficulty, a good deal. Any ideas, Tony.
I feel for you. I tried to wrap her pills in yellow American cheese. Sometimes she will take it and sometimes she just turns her head away. When that happens, I take the pill and open her mouth and put the pill over the tongue then close mouth gently and rub neck to get her to swallow. It's a bit sad, but it works. Also, I have tried bread with crushed graham crackers. That works sometimes. If you give her a pill in cheese or the bread, tell your dog that you will give a dog treat and kind of hurry her along to take the pill because your dog will know the treat is coming. I have a Stage 3 12 1/2 year old Female Dalmatian. She's the prettiest Dalmatian ever. She has just started to vomit more frequently and has just started giving us a hard time about eating. We gave her chicken and rice last week because she stopped eating the homemade diet I had for her. Now she does not want that. So I have her on ground beef and rice, but today, she does not want anymore rice, just the beef and she was supposed to get sweet potato or pumpkin with her meals but she refuses and even gets sick at the smell of it. She's on sub fluids every other day. She has weak back legs. I don't know what tomorrow will hold. She vomited bile this a.m. and that is the second time this week. She's my girl, and I love her dearly. We also try to feed her the MP prescription diet. I think it's science diet or Royal Canin. I would need to look at the bag again. You may want to try some of that kibble. Daisy only ate very little of the kibble tonight like 1/2 cup when she will usually eat as much as we allow her. I don't know how to go through losing a pet, my girl. I'm sorry for your difficult time. I pray both of our dogs will eat something.
Could someone direct us were to go in get this info, have our Buddy at the vet today doing the IV treatment and picking him up tomorrow evening. Did start him on Hills K/D but didn't want any part of that after we put some of the liquid med's on, had to go with hamburger last night and this morning. Buddy is at stage 4 and a 7 year old Brit, way to young and full of like to loss him. So any help and information along with joining this support group would help us a lot!
Hi. Yes, you are right. Knowledge is power! We have a special members dog owners User Group here on MedHelp, and it sounds to me like your knowledge and experience would be very beneficial to it. Please look up the CHRONIC KIDNEY FAILURE IN DOGS USER GROUP and join us. I administrate this group.
Hi Tony, Thank You for inviting me to your forum. I had a mini dachshund that passed away March 20,2015, it was also my birthday. She was 15 years old. Her name was Peabody. They diagnosed her renal failure January of 2014. I fed her dog food for the first 2 years of her life but I didn't like it. It smelled awful. So I started cooking her food. The vet really didn't say too much, they just stood there and shook their head and said 2/3 of her kidneys were gone. They sent me home with epikin for a phosphorus binder. So I went home with it, read the ingredients, not good, so I researched for other phosphorus binders and found ground eggshell powder to be a good natural one. It worked for 13 months after I started giving it to her. But the problem was beings I made home cooked meals for her I should have been giving that to her since she was two. I told my vet I was cooking for her but she do not say anything about ground eggshell. Sometimes now I sit and think what do they teach them in vet college. They don't even know anything about sinus infection in dogs. When I fed Peabody I made sure that she had a lot of water in her food even though I did not know about the eggshell. I have so much to say about everything. I did not put my Peabody to sleep, she passed away on my bed. We took her for fluids and cerenia everyday to keep her comfortable. I did not feel that I had the authority to take my Peabody's life. So I asked the LORD for help and she passed away.
I did ask the vet if she was in pain and she said no, the vomiting was the worse but I am not so sure about that. Can I comment again later. I have so much to say. Thank you, sorrymom
Hi again. You did really well with Peabody. 15yrs means she was a real old lady. One thing about eggshells, just in case others read this, yes they are a great phosphorus binder but owners do have to be very careful with feeding it as an alternative, because (unsurprisingly) they contain high levels of calcium. It is more common in dogs with kidney failure to have low calcium levels, but some do also get high calcium levels (which cause additional problems). So, before giving eggshells as a phosphorus binder, make absolutely certain the free ionized calcium level in the blood is normal or below normal.
I don't necessarily agree with your vet about the last stages of kidney disease being pain free. Sadly, most dogs near to the end are in considerable pain with kidney disease. They are also often miserable, depressed, exhausted and lethargic. I don't say that to upset you (hope it doesn't), but there IS a time for ending the misery with kidney disease, though of course whether and when that occurs is entirely something for a dog and its owner in consultation with their vet.
Hi Tony. Peabody's calcium levels were good, it was the phosphorus level and the creatine that were high. May I say that Peabody had surgery in August of 2014, she was knuckling her right front leg. She made it through the surgery and the Dr. said her kidneys were good. But around Nov. she started sleeping a lot, she was eating good and everything else. Yes I know about the eggshell and too much calcium. I know that they give 1/2 tsp for evey pound of food, so she got 1/8 of a teaspoon in 1/4 cup of food. I know, beings I did not put her to sleep every one probably thinks I am terrible, but like I said you cannot trust your vet all the time. God authorizes treating the pain but does not authorize the taking of the life of the dying. "give strong drink (pain meds) to them that are ready to perish and wine to those who be of heavy heart". Also "the mercy of the wicked is cruel". (euthanasia) "For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return".
The vet that did her surgery (we used our credit card) suggested that we put her to sleep, that is so retarded, we told him NO, if she passes away at least we tried. She had a heart murmur. Peabody also did not have any arthritis either. I think dog food gives them a lot of their diseases. Dry dog food is the worst for all dogs. Peabody lived for 8 more months after her surgery. I took a picture of her in Dec. with a santa hat on and purposely sent one to the vet who did her surgery. Had I put her to sleep I would have never had those last 8 months with her. Dogs are not a commodity they are our beloved companions. I do not have the authority to decide weather someone lives or dies. Yes it was hard to take care of her but I did everything I could and I even took the time to spoon feed her.She was able to walk up to 2 days before she passed away. I set my alarm clock to wake up and check on her through the night. I would have not changed a thing that I did. I did not wrap her in a bag and throw her in the ground. My son built a box for her, I did not have her burned or turned into dog food. She loved her soft pillow and so we put a pillow in the box, and her favorite blanket and a few of her toys. She is buried in my flower garden under the lilac trees and do you know I was setting in my living room one day and the smell of lilacs, very strong, was in that room, I about had a heart attack One day I was setting at my dining room table folding clothes and all of a sudden I heard the most beautiful music, like chimes, and it was so loud and there was such an echo in the room that I had to cover my ears and it lasted for a while and I happened to look at the clock and it said 6:30pm, the time Peabody passed away, that was really something!!!! I told my vet about it and she said my mind was playing tricks on me, but I went with my gut feeling that it was GOD telling me Peabody was fine, because I had put her in the LORD'S hands. I apologize if I offended anyone but I believe in the LORD for everything. sorrymom
Hi. No, I don't think (hope) you haven't offended anyone, but of course, not everyone would agree with your way of thinking, particularly relating to euthanasia. My personal opinion is, there is always a right and wrong time to use it. I think you were right to keep trying after the surgery. There is a huge amount that can be done to help promote life and quality of life, though there comes a time when that proves impossible and a dog will beyond that point just suffer and suffer and suffer with no hope of recovery or satisfaction from those people and things around them ... and it's at that stage I believe we should consider the kindest thing we can do, which is to employ euthanasia.
I realize that is not your view, based on religious grounds. I have had this debate many many times with many people, and I do realize debating it is impossible, because strong belief systems hinder any room for compromise or debate.
I am only saying this because some people feel dreadfully guilty about using euthanasia, and I do not believe they should feel guilty. They are using this for the right reasons ... to prevent further suffering. If there is a God and he is kind and compassionate, surely he must understand and agree with that?
Gone on too long, unintentionally, but hopefully you don't object to me putting the other side of the argument here.
Hi Tony, No I do not object to you putting the other side of the argument in your post. I have already been told I was cruel by a relative that has put their animals to sleep right and left. I know Peabody was passing away, but I looked at my vet for help to make her comfortable. She did tell me to get some Pepcid for her. I went home looked it up and found out that it helps with the symptoms but not the healing, and found out that sucralfate helps with the healing. It would have been better than Pepcid, even though she was passing away. So I got on the phone got a bottle of sucralfate from my vet. I should not have had to do that. Why didn't she give me the best for Peabody, did she just think, "Oh she is old and dying go to the pharmacy and get some cheap over the counter stuff"? If Peabody was in pain because of ulcers it was her fault. I got tired of having to second guess my vet
In November, 1997, Gary Eisler, who lives in Oregon, wrote an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal. In poignant words Eisler describes the slow, painful death from cancer of his beloved wife, Bonnie. When the cancer spread from Mrs. Eisler's breast to her brain, her doctor recommended that all treatment be stopped. Bonnie Eisler spent the last two months of her life in agonizing pain. An yet, Eisler says, that many "wonderful things" happened during that time: the birth of their first grandchild, a last Christmas together. Despite his wifes suffering, Eisler writes, that their last hours together were some of the "most intimate and precious of our marriage.... Reason and compassion would have dictated that Bonnie's life be ended weeks earlier, Eisler says, but how much poorer everyone--including her--would have been. Eisler ends his piece with a warning. Unless assisted suicide is repealed, he predicts, it will not be long before the vultures begin circling. Cancer treatment, after all, is expensive. If Bonnie Eisler had known the cost of her treatments, her husband says, she might well have felt she was a burden and opted to kill herself .Eisler asks one final question: Will what has been optional someday become "suggested"- and perhaps eventually be required?" I am not trying to change anyones stand on euthanasia. I just thought this was a tremendous piece. I realize this is referring to a human and not a animal but it all comes out the same. Man has no advantage over animals when they die. All are from dust and to dust they shall return. The LORD even sees when a sparrow falls Mathew10:29 Although animals do not have a soul, they do have a spirit. Ecclesiastes3:21. Thank You for hearing me out. I just prefer to obey GOD and not man, for He is the beginning and ending of all things. If you would rather I didn't post anymore you can let me know. Its okay
Hi again, and thank you for coming back here. I think the importance in what you said is that every situation and every circumstance and every individual is very different. It's the reason we shouldn't have one all-encompassing rule, but be more open to looking carefully, compassionately and honestly at what is best at any one time for any single person ... or pet.
I hope your own grief subsides in time, which I am sure it will. We never forget those we have loved and grief is often a hellish journey to get through, but get through it we must.
Thank you Tony, I loved that "run free Peabody". When Peabody passed away I quit eating and drinking, it was awful. I was so lost. Nothing to come home for she was 99% of my life. Well, I didn't tell you everything. I got another Dachshund from a rescue, we actually rescued Peabody, she was a runt and he was going to put her down so we took her. See this is the problem I have, I won't say anymore, he is a male 2 years old. His name is Flash and he lives up to his name. We have had him about a month now and I think he likes it here. He has a few scars on him, we think are from the other dogs at the rescue. He is a sweetie. I do not expect him to be like Peabody. I still cry but Mr. Flash helps a lot.
He is a jumper so we had to get stairs for the couch and a ramp for the bed. Peabody never jumped on anything. We don't want him to hurt his back. We will be getting a blood test on him in August to make sure everything is o.k. I think blood tests on all dogs should be done yearly and when they are a senior twice a year. But I know that you have to ask the vet for one because mine never suggested it until she was sick. That is one of the things they should tell you, but I know that now, thank GOD for the internet. I cook for Flash also and he loves his food. I brush his teeth, but when I first gave him a bath he was really afraid of the water, now he is better, he is also afraid of the broom, do you think he was abused?
I tried to get a dog from the Nebraska dachshund rescue but I think we were to old. Flash fills a terrible void in my life. So I guess it is not so true when they say don't get a dog that is the same breed of the one that passed away. He looks just like Peabody but he is a darker red and he is not a mini, I think he is a tweenie, he weighs 13 pounds.
Thank you for telling me I did very well with Peabody and that she was a very old lady. You know, here I go again, I had a dream one night after Peabody passed away--I saw her and she was talking to me--she said " I am so tired" and walked away to lay down. God made animals talk in the Bible-----I won't say anymore. Being able to talk to you helps me a lot too. Thank you
I have a 14 year old rat terrier named Rocky. He is my little old boy, he was diagnosed with renal failure in 2013 by a fairly new vet, fresh out of Texas A and M Vet school, we live in Texas. The vet had his blood tested and said it was possible he might also have cushings. I have been watching his protein, magnesium and phosphorus, I do not restrict his water intake. She said he has about 40% functionality of his kidneys and lost about 1/2 his weight, he used to weigh 11 lbs but is now at 6.5 to 7 lbs on good days. The vet initially put him on royal canin renal LP, Rocky did not care for it, we moved to a small town outside of Austin and found a fantastic vet, he is an old country doctor who is a large and small animal vet. He changed Rocky to Science diet KD dry food in 2014 and this year added canned science diet KD too. Our new vet doesn't believe in blood testing very often if at all any more. Rocky has been diagnosed and our vet told us he wants him to have a good quality of life, he said Rocky is getting on his years and the old man may have trouble with vaccines from this point on. The little old man Rocky has arthritis in his shoulders, is losing his strength in his hind legs and can't make it up the stairs. We have added floor cushion mats in the house by the outside stairs to ensure he doesn't get stuck but can amble up the stair using the elevated thick foam cushioned mats. He can no longer jump up nor can he jump down off the dog beds, so we carry him and move him about on bad days, but on good days he uses the climbing mats we set up for hm. He is on an MLM for his arthritis, gets cold now very often. We have rescued two other dogs, a female Chiweenie who is 2 yrs old and keeps an eye out for the old man. We also have a 4 yr old Chi Mix who is Rockys buddy, they sleep together often and pal around all the time.
I have a few questions. First, what is green tripe and what benefit does it add? What is Avanti oil and what does it do? Rocky is increasingly getting a rounder hunched over looking back and tummy, has trouble getting up from a prone position and needs help to right himself. I think it is due to an enlarged Kidney? He loves a morning walk but gets so tired. He is sleeping much more as he ages. I suspect he is in his final stages, but is hanging on, our vet is reluctant to do many tests or give him vaccines now as it is a shock to the old mans body, and he sleeps so much more when they give him any vaccines -- which are now spaced out so he doesn't get a bunch of vaccines on the same day. He will turn 15 on November, some days I don't think he will make it another day, others he seems spry playing with toys and ambling after the squirrels chasing them up a tree outside.
Appreciate any tips. Thanks, just trying to give my little old boy, Rocky a good quality of life in his remaining time.
Hi. Mr Flash sounds a cutie - and I think you may have your hands full with him. I think you are right to be very cautious about him jumping and while the steps are a good idea initially, it would be better to train him out of getting onto furnishings. That's just me though. I don't allow any of my dogs on furniture, because it can easily get out of hand, particularly if a dog becomes more dominant later on. I have known owners that aren't allowed on their sofa, because the dog won't allow it. Ha, strange, but true.
Hi. Can I ask you to join our special User Group here on MedHelp ... the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs User Group. You will find it invaluable, with lots of support and information from owners that have or have had dogs with kidney failure. We are a family there, so please become a member.
Rocky is indeed an elderly man, so palliative treatment is probably the right thing. You already appreciate, time is not on his side, but there are still things you can do to make his life more comfortable. Diet is crucial - so have a read of my article Diet and CKF here (there's also info about Green Tripe in this piece):
I agree with your vet, annual vaccinations are definitely not worth doing. They will stress the kidneys even more and could bring about a rapid decline. I don't however necessarily agree that blood testing is now inappropriate. It really depends on whether you want to be able to intervene at the right time to correct rising BUN, creatinine and phosphorus. If you don't know when they are too high, then you won't know you need to change the diet or management of the disease.
If you can, feed him the same as you would ordinarily do in a day, but split it into four meals equally spaced out during the day. Lower volumes of food at one time will make it easier for the kidneys to deal with by-products and toxins created from the food. Also, drizzle a little natural honey or salmon oil on the food, as these help encourage eating and are very good supplements to the diet for kidney failure.
When you say "Avanti" oil, do you mean Azodyl? I have not heard of Avanti oil. If you do mean Azodyl, which is a supplement, take a look at my article, which discusses all kinds of supplements commonly used with kidney disease. I have tried to write it pointing out any evidence to their success, or not, with this disease. You can find it here:
I am sorry for you and I hope I can help. My mini dachshund passed away March 20 of this year from renal failure. I cooked for my doxie since she was 2 yrs old. She was 15 when she passed away. I would suggest that you cook him some chicken breast pieces in filtered water. Steam some vegetables, you need to steam them till they are a little overcooked because they have a cellulose covering on them. I also cooked a little pasta in filtered water. I smashed everything up with a fork as fine as I can get it and shred the chicken into small pieces. Do not give your dog any of the water you have cooked in. Dogs should only have filtered water. The water you use for the chicken is o.k. as it adds flavor to the food and their are nutrients in it. You can do the same with hamburger, Strain the water off and blot the hamburger in a paper towels to get most of the grease off. And now a very important thing add 2 to 4 tablespoon of warm filtered water to the food before serving.
YOU NEED TO GET THOSE BLOOD TESTS FOR YOUR DOGS NO MATTER WHAT YOUR VET SAYS. MINE NEVER SUGESSTED IT. I DID GET HER A BLOOD TEST AFTER I STARTED COOKING FOR HER TO MAKE SURE SHE WAS GETTING THE NUTRIENTS SHE NEEDED. I NEVER GOT ANY MORE UNTILL SHE GOT SICK A YEAR AGO AND WE FOUND OUT SHE HAD RENAL FAILURE. THOSE BLOOD TESTS SHOW UP EVERYTHING!!!..IS ROCKY'S PHOSPHORUS LEVELS O.K.? MY VET GAVE ME A PHOSPHORUS BINDER FOR MY DOXIE. I DID NOT LIKE IT. SO I RESEARCHED PHOSPHORUS BINDERS ON THE INTERNET AND FOUND OUT I COULD USE GROUND UP EGGSHELLS. 1/2 TSP FOR EVERY POUND OF FOOD. I GAVE PEABODY MY DOXIE 1/4 CUP OF FOOD SO SHE GOT 1/8 TSP MIXED IN HER FOOD. WASH THE EGGSHELLS, MAKE SURE THERE IS NO EGG WHITE STUCK ON THE SHELLS IF YOU USE SHELLS FROM HARD BOILD EGGS. YOU CAN LEAVE THE MEMBRANE ON THEM THERE ARE NUTRIENTS IN IT FOR THEIR JOINTS. WASH THEM, DRY THEM, SMASH THEM UP, PUT THEM ON A BAKING SHEET AND PUT THEM IN THE OVEN AT 300 AND COOK FOR TEN MINUTES. COOL THEM AND PUT THEM IN A COFFEE BEAN GRINDER AND GRIND TILL THEY ARE POWDER, THEN I PUT THEM THROUGH A FINE MESH SEIVE. THE MEMBRANE WILL BE LET IN THE SEIVE. IT IS SOFT AND O.K. TO PUT IN WITH THE EGGSHELL POWDER.
I ALSO HEARD DRY DOG FOOD IS NOT GOOD FOR DOGS. MY PEABODY NEVER HAD ARTHIRITIS. I THINK THE BEST FOOD FOR DOGS IS HOMEMADE.
WHAT VACCINES ARE THEY GIVING HIM? I WOULD SURELY GET A BLOODTEST THOUGH. THAT IS WHY I AM A SORRY MOM BECAUSE I DID NOT GET BLOODTESTS DONE REGULARLY, WE WOULD HAVE CAUGHT IT SOONER. I ALWAYS SECOND GUESSED MY VET. I DID MY OWN RESEARCH AFTER SHE WAS DIAGNOSED A YEAR AGO. 2/3 OF HER KIDNEYS WERE GONE, BUT I KEPT HER ALIVE FOR ANOTHER 13 MONTHS.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT GREEN TRIPE OR AVANTI OIL, YOU COULD GOOGLE IT.
MY PEABODY'S HIND LEGS GAVE OUT 2 DAYS BEFORE SHE PASSED AWAY. SHE WAS SLEEPING WAY MORE TOO. THEN SHE THREW UP ONE MORNING AND FROM THERE IT WAS ALL DOWN HILL. SHE QUIT EATING SO I MADE HER A LIQUID DIET AND SPOON FED HER, I GUESS SOME DOGS GET ULCERS WITH KIDNEY FAILURE THAT IS WHY THEY STOP EATING. MY VET TOLD ME TO GET SOME PEPCID BUT I TOLD HER I WANTED SUCRALFATE THAT HEALS ULCERS. I DID NOT PUT HER TO SLEEP, SHE PASSED AWAY AT HOME.
I HOPE I HELPED YOU A LITTLE, BUT DO GET THOSE BLOODTESTS NO MATTER WHAT YOUR VET SAYS, YOU ARE THE ONE PAYING FOR IT, THEY ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT. LIKE I SAID , I AM A SORRYMOM
Hi again this is sorrymom. I just wanted to tell you if you do cook hamburger for your Rocky use only 80-85% lean. Leaner hamburger has more phosphorus. I think he will do better on a home cooked meal. And if you do cook homemade food make sure his calcium is not high, which you find out with a blood test. If his calcium is o.k. you have to put it in with every meal accordingly to how much food you feed him, too much is not good either. If you give him a snack you should sprinkle some on it. I am not a vet but everything I tell you is from experience. sorrymom
Hi Tony, Yes, Flash is a cutie and he keeps me very busy. He doesn't get on the couch unless someone is sitting there. But yes I am slowly working on not letting him on the furniture. It is hard though, I think he must have been allowed on the furniture by his owner. As far as his health, I am very afraid of his kidneys, so in August we will get a blood test on him, I want to stay on top of it hopefully. We will be doing it every year. I wanted to send you a picture of Flash and Peabody if that is possible. Flash will be my last pooch, I am getting old too. Thanks
Here I am again. This old lady forgot to tell you I only use frozen vegetables, peas, green beans , and I by fresh carrots-peel them and slice them thin, not too thin, and freeze them with the peas. I also buy a fresh sweet potato, I peel it and slice it into about a 1/4 inch slice and freeze them too. I don't give corn and no white potatoes, they are nightshade vegetables and they have some stuff in them that is not good for dogs. I hope I remembered everything this time. I think the stuff in white potatoes is called Solaine or something like that. sorrymom
Thanks Tony, you go have given me a lot of info. And reading. All welcome info.
As to Rockys diet. I have always watched his sodium intake as the female vet 2 years ago told me to do so, also feed Science diet LP canned now as he prefers it. He likes carrots cooked or raw, green beans, fresh cooked pumpkin, Greek yogurt, loves cooked chopped pasta, brown and white rice. I have him on three meals a day now. He sleeps better and looks overall better as I mix brown rice and pasta into his evening dinner. I do sometimes add chopped cooked chicken or turkey to his food when he is especially hungry and give him a little snack at lunch and after dinner as he gets upset if he does not have an after dinner treat. He likes broth from the cooked meats, so I save it for him and add it to his meals as I cook at home most often.
I began making dog biscuits for him, also occasionally give him scrambled egg as he loves it.
What about almonds? He loves flax and olive oil. I have not tried salmon oil but will find some.
I agree with you on getting blood testing done, I think my vet is almost afraid of what he will find with respect to the blood testing, might be why he does not want to do it ( his words...afraid of what I will find ) on my dog Rocky, perhaps because he will be the bearer of bad news, he definitely seems to bond his animal patients. At the last examination he told me to add more fiber to his diet, brown rice, sweet potatoes, carrots and put him on a daily vitamin . Rocky also has a skin tag which seems to get infected often, he treats it with antibiotics, it heals and get infected again and again.
One question: are tomatoes ok for animals to eat? Not sure.
Hi Sorry mom, thank you for the info! I have a recipe somewhere to prepare dog food using frozen veg and ground beef. Glad you have given me more info. On foods.
I have recently begun worrying about him as he had developed that round tummy, hunched appearance and his coat is getting dry and not as nice looking, then he had a couple of days where he was listless and wood not eat. I took away all the meat in his diet and fed him only brown rice and chicken broth or pasta with yogurt and chicken broth. He returned to normal, so I put him on his LP canned food diet, he has lost eight teeth which the vet pulled and he cracked one tooth which the vet cleaned and wound up leaving just stitching it closed.
He has lost ability to hold his bladder, he pees everywhere, i must put a belly band on him when he is inside alone with my two other dogs when I cannot stay home with him and need to go to work out, yoga classes, grocery store or what have you. I cannot leave him outside as he will do everything in his power to get under or walk thru the gate to get in front of the house. His eye sight is starting to fail and the vet also told me he has cataracts in both eyes and his eye sight is deteriorating.
I will try the egg shells, thank you for your advice and kind words. Yes, I must get the old man Rocky tested so I can find out where he is at now. Las I know is his creatinine, phosphorus and BUN was high according to the vet, which is why he was put on Renal dog food.
The vet gives all dogs the 3 year rabies vaccine every year as the city requires it. Also bordatella, he had it 7 months ago. The vaccines are being stopped, if I have to go out of town I will have to leave him with my husband or my daughter in another city close by if we both have to go out of town. My daughter has two rescue pit bull mixes (65 lb pups of two years), Rocky stays out of their way as he is 7 lbs dripping wet now.
Again, thank you for all your advice, I will talk to the vet and see about getting him tested again. If he won't do it I will try the second vet in the office or find another vet.
Hi. While not toxic, almonds are not easily digested and can give your dog an upset stomach and create gastric intestinal distress. So only give very small amounts and infrequently. Tomatoes are also fine, as long as they are ripe. The leafy parts of the tomato plant ARE poisonous to dogs, so be careful if you grown them yourself in a greenhouse or in your home.
Just a mention also about the Greek Yoghurt ... make sure this is pure and plain yoghurt, not one that has been sweetened (some artificial sweeteners are very poisonous to dogs) or had additives added to it. Also, I say plain yoghurt because any other could contain fruit pips, again these are often poisonous to dogs.
Fibre is great for CKF dogs ... but not always the same kind of fibre we humans tend to eat. Brown rice is actually harder to digest for dogs, so it's better to use rice bran, if you can get hold of it. This is also a fermentable fibre (more about that in my article), so very good for kidney disease. A little cooked chopped cabbage in the diet will also help deal with any stomach ulcers (common with CKF dogs) - and helps to prevent them forming.
I lost my mini dachshund Peabody in March of this year, she was 15 years old, she passed away from renal failure. She never had any arthritis. I never gave her any nightshade vegetables. These include tomatoes, white potatoes, peppers and capsicums, and eggplant. These vegetables produce Glycoalkaloids, a natural pesticide produced by nightshade vegetables. These are not good for arthiritis, and even cause acid reflux. I tried to give her everything that I could that was pretty pure. I am not going over anyones head but it might have been why she did not get arthiritis. So we know that a pesticide is poison, Solanine is the bad stuff in nightshades. Sweet potatoes are not part of the nightshade group. Even if it would take a lot of say tomatoes to bother their joints, I don't think it is worth it in the long run.
Hi. As far as I know, tomatoes are fine as long as they are not under-ripe (green) and you don't give them too often. Green tomatoes do contain toxic substances (just like any green parts of standard white potatoes), but not red ripened ones. May need to check up on that, as it's just from memory.
Hi Tony, Just an update here. We took Flash to the vet on Monday for his toenail clip and decided to go ahead with his blood test. It came back perfect, I know he is young but I needed to know how his calcium and phosphorus were beings I feed him his food with eggshell powder. So all is well. All the other things were perfect, kidneys, liver, pancreas, I will always get blood tests. I also encourage everyone else to do the same!
Hi, My Peabody also had high lipids(cholesterol) in her blood. Again had I gotten blood tests all along. I would have caught it and could have done what I needed to do . She could have had some liver and pancreatic problems too. But my vet said she does not check cholesterol in dogs. But none of this makes any sense, lipids show up in a blood test, we got the whole blood test for Flash, my vets and the one she sends out. Do they not tell you when they get the results back, or I suppose as usual you have to ask! So as I said before BLOOD TESTS AND RESEARCH!
Hi. That's good news about Flash. One of the big problems about testing for cholesterol and properly diagnosing high lipids is the fact that many owners don't realise how eating can manipulate the blood results. Dogs really need to be fasted for 12 hours before the test, otherwise any food taken during that time will raise the lipids count. Vets will commonly only undertake a test when they are absolutely certain the owner has not fed their dog. They will often do a test while the dog is being supervised at the vets (detained for 12 hours), but otherwise many believe it just isn't reliable, given the way owners "give in" to feeding their dog something, even a small treat.
i am writing in utter desperation i live in the uk and a week ago me dog was
diagnosed with Kidney failure within one week he has gone completely down hill barely eating lost 1.5 kilo in weight he sleeps all the time and wants to be with me constantly he started bleeding form his mouth three days ago the vet diagnosed Lung worm and they have treated him on the back of the neck and oral sachets every day. He had grey gums and they were bleeding and full of puss. He is a 15 year old Jack Russsel who until a week ago was still walking and happy and eating the vet has suggested euthanazing him but he is still so alert he is still trying to follow me and wont take his eyes of me I can't stop crying and dont want him to suffer please help. He can't eat because his mouth is so sore he is anaemic thanks so much. Fiona
Hi Fiona, I know exactly how you feel. I lost my mini dachshund march 20 of this year, she had kidney failure and was 15 years old. She stopped eating a week before she passed away, and quit walking 2 days before she passed away. I was able for a few days to spoon feed her some chicken broth, then she would not eat anymore. I could not euthanize her, it is against GOD. So all we could do was make her comfortable with fluids from the vet and cerina for vomiting everyday. My vet said she was not in pain but I don't know if that was true, other wise I would have given her some pain medicine. Vets make me mad because they don't tell you everything that is going on with your pet and how to help them. If she did have mouth alcers she told me to get some Pepcid which only helps the symptoms. So I researched and got some sucraflate which also helps heal them. I knew she was passing away, she was laying on my bed when she passed. I would just make him as comfortable as you could and hold him. See if you could get him fluids every day and something for vomiting if he is doing that. The fluids are placed under the skin by your vet, and a shot of cerina. I know it is very bad, I still cry. Maybe you could try some chicken broth. They do need a lot of fluids when they have kidney diease. All I have told you was from my experience. I hope I helped you a little. sorrymom (because I did not get my doxie blood tests every year to catch kidney disease )
Hi Fiona. I am so sorry you have received this diagnosis for your best friend. It sounds like there are so many symptoms of different conditions, you must be feeling extremely overwhelmed by it all. Many of the symptoms are associated with kidney disease. But the Lung worm diagnoses is obviously a separate issue and that one needs treating with priority. I see treatment has begun ... how long before this treatment finishes? The reason for asking is, basically the treatment involves a spot-on and sachets of what I assume to be a controlled poison, which will have some adverse impact on the kidney disease. There is no easy way around this, because the lung worm must be eradicated.
Other questions I need to ask are ... has the vet put him on any anti-nausea medication? If not, you need to get this today. It's urgent, and with it your dog may start eating again. Your dog will not want to eat due to the toxin build-up caused by the kidney failure. Just like humans, if they feel sickly, they won't want to eat.
Next, has the vet done any IV Fluids? If not, this should be pursued. Fluids are essential initially, to increase efficient urination and get the toxins flushed out. A course would ordinarily last 3 days and then you could continue undertaking Sub-Q fluid therapy at home. If your vet is reluctant (for whatever reason) then change your vet.
Has the vet given you your dog's blood test levels? If yes, please post them, so I can assess what stage kidney disease this is and how much work there may be to do to get the levels back down to normal. This isn't always possible, but worth trying if the disease has not progressed too far.
Has the vet taken your dog's blood-pressure? If not, this needs doing urgently, otherwise heart conditions can be triggered, sometimes with fatal results. Many dogs with kidney failure also have high blood pressure. High blood pressure causes a rapid deterioration in the kidney disease, so it needs to be treated as a priority.
Has the vet advised you to start a kidney specific diet for your dog? If not, start this today. You can buy tinned (not dry) kidney diets for dogs with kidney disease. You might eventually move to a homemade diet, but tinned is fine for now, just to start the process. Introduce the diet change gradually, otherwise there will be some upset digestion.
And finally, join our special group ... the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs User Group ... here on MedHelp. Just search for it in the search bar at the top of the page.
Also, have a read about diet and canine kidney disease in my article, which you can access here:
You will also find various additional articles written by me about canine kidney disease at my website ... www.tonyboothwriter.com
Okay, that's probably enough for now. None of these interventions may work ... but if you want to try, then we can try. In the end, you know your dog better than anyone else. The time to "call it a day" is when you and your dog say "enough is enough". I hope that point has not been reached yet and I hope these and other measures we can talk about later will help keep your dog with you for as long as possible. Kidney disease is not curable, but management of it can prolong life and help vastly improve quality of life.
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