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MRI result - what does it mean?

I am a 43 year old, white female who does not smoke or drink alcohol.  I have absolutely NO medical history - no chronic illness, never had surgery.  My fasting blood sugar is 87.  My total cholesterol is 157.  I regularly check my blood pressure and it is rarely over 116/68.  I am the picture of health...except that I have had multiple, intermittent episodes of tingling/burning in my hands, feet and forearms accompanied by fatigue, muscle weakness, muscle spasms, visual disturbances and balance issues.  The tingling/burning increases dramatically in warm situations like a hot shower, hot shoes or if tucked under a blanket.  I saw my PCP and after stating that she suspected MS might be the cause, ordered and MRI of my brain.

I had the testing done this past Wednesday and my PCP called on Friday to tell me that she felt the Radiologist's reading of the MRI was more ambiguous than any other she'd ever received, and in light of my symptoms, that she scheduled me to see a Neurologist on Oct. 20th.  I know that the appt. is "only" 10 days away...but I have so many unanswered questions and the MRI only adds to them that, to me, it seems to be an interminable wait.

Brain MRI reading:

"Some white matter disease.  Small areas of bright T2 signal in the white matter of both hemispheres.  Many are somewhat peripheral.  No typical Dawson's fingers.  Some questionable involvement of the corpus callosum.  Such involvement would favor a process such as MS.  The overall pattern isn't typical of MS, however, and is non-specific.  The areas could represent demyelinization but could also indicate some inflammatory process such as small vessel ischemic disease, Lyme disease, sarcoidosis or even lupus.  There is no generalized brain atrophy.  The cerebellum is normal.  The basal ganglia regions appear within normal limits.

I'm hoping that someone here can shed some light for me on what my MRI results mean.  What kind of conclusions can be drawn from it regarding a possible diagnosis?  What questions should I be asking the Neuro at my Oct. 20th appt?
Best Answer
Avatar universal
Just so you know, the EMG would not be the test for small fiber neuropathy, but large fiber.  I had a skin biopsy done this week, which would show small fiber damage.  They take some skin samples and send it to a lab where the small fiber nerves can be looked at.

This may be irrevelant to you anyway, as you want someone who will actually look, listen, and then order the right tests for the right possibilities.
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Avatar universal
I've also had the experience multiple times of radiologists doing a very poor job of reading my MRIs. I've even had one question whether or not I had MS.  I think a lot of times they're in too much of a hurry to do a thorough job.  

My old neuro at an MS Center sat down with me and showed me exactly where my lesions were.  Then I had switched to a new neuro and she ordered more MRIs.  I went to a new MRI place and this other radiologist was the one that questioned whether or not I had MS. And said on the report that I just had a 2 or 3 lesions.

I went home and looked at the disc myself, and there they were, all the ones that my previous neuro had pointed out.  I could see them, but the radiologist somehow missed them. ???  If I hadn't of known what they looked like myself, then I might have just gone off of what the radiologist had written, and I may have let my new neuro just go off of the report.  Me and my family have gone thru way too much for me to let anyone take control of my healthcare without me being directly involved and educated about everything. My mom, my dad, and my aunt all died from medical errors. And one of my other aunts almost died.

I took screenshots of all of the lesions that were missed, along with the disc and the films with me to my next neuro appt.  I showed them to her, and she nodded in agreement that those were definitely missed.

I believe that we all need to be advocates in our own healthcare.  Doctors, nurses, radiologists all make mistakes - for one, they're all human and for another...well, you know what I mean.  If you know you have issues, don't let the doctor dismiss you. FIND another doctor, and keep pursuing it.

Like I said before, I have way too many negative experiences on multiple levels with healthcare providers.  I am definitely my own advocate, as I know most of you on this forum are.

-Kelly      
Helpful - 0
1251333 tn?1445218215
LOL - no...I just think it is that she knows that I pay attention and I'm not buying the push-ya-out-the-door mumble jumble that a lot of MSers end up getting.

Perhaps "read" is not the terminology we should use for making sure people know what's going on in their own MRI.  I know exactly what's going on in my MRIs.  While I might be able to point to a lesion on someone else's MRI - I certainly can't point out any nasal pharyngeal cysts.

My encouragement is that we don't let ourselves fall into a trap of believing and trusting doctors to know what they're doing - because we've been programmed to think they do - and too many of us have learned that a whole lot of them don't.  (Granted, I might not either but I know when we're drifting left of center).

So - maybe "read" or "reading" isn't the right terminology?  ::shrug::  

I've had too many experiences, personally and professionally, where things just weren't right that have taught me the lesson of "you better know what you're talking about".

You can't know...if you don't look, learn, ask, read, understand.  And, for MSers, it seems logical to know what's in your MRI.  

But - that's just my 2 cents.  I earned it during my 3 hour tours in the MRI machine.  :-)

Jen
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352007 tn?1372857881
It concerns me that you are encouraging people to read their own MRIs.  Unless of course, they are educated and have clinical experience reading MRIs  -- then by all means help yourselves.

Have we all looked at our own MRI CDs when we get them?  Sure, I have myself.  But do we actually know what we are looking at (if not educated and well versed in neuroradiology),   NO.  

Therefore, I discourage anyone who does not have the medical training or background to read their own MRIs and leave it to the professionals.

"Every single time I walk into the exam room - she straightens up like a kid before the teacher because she knows...."  I wonder why.......

(wolf whistles)
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Avatar universal
"Just so you know, the EMG would not be the test for small fiber neuropathy, but large fiber.  I had a skin biopsy done this week, which would show small fiber damage.  They take some skin samples and send it to a lab where the small fiber nerves can be looked at."

One of the first things I did when I got home from today's appointment was to research SFN on the Internet and one of the things that I learned was exactly that....EMG's are of little to no help in diagnosing SFN.  The only time that it really has any bearing on it is if the SFN is mixed with large fiber neuropathy.

At this point, the only thing that I'm not upset about is my PCP.  She took time with me, she listened to what I had to say and she looked toward trying to find some answers.  After that, it was all downhill.  I have serious questions about the quality of my MRI images and even less confidence in the Radiologist's reading of them.  Add to that today's visit with a Neuro who tries to convince me that I have the problems seen in the elderly or in people with other conditions that I don't have, such as high cholesterol, high blood pressure and diabetes, and you've got a recipe for a patient who feels as though she's been cheated and her symptoms minimized and dismissed.

I've already contacted my PCP and let them know how dissatisfied I was with the Neuro and demanded they set up a second opinion with the teaching hospital that I mentioned.  I'm waiting to hear back on that.
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Avatar universal
Time for a little ranting here.  I had my appointment with the Neuro today........if you can call it that.  I have no idea if he even reviewed my films or if he just relied on that crappy Radiology reading because he never reviewed anything in front of me.  When I mentioned that I brought the disc along with me, he kept on talking and acted as though he never heard what I'd said.  When I mentioned it a second time that I had them for him to review, he gave me a dismissive wave of his hand.  He did ask me what kind of symptoms I've been having....but then interrupted before I could tell him about anything other than the tingling/burning in my feet and the episode where I had trouble reading because the words were jiggling back and forth on the page.  Although I had written down the two medicines I've been taking (Colace & B-12) on my history sheet, he apparently didn't bother to look at it because he asked if I was taking any aspirin.  When I said "No", he pronounced that he thought I had small vessel disease and possibly small fiber neuropathy.  When I challenged him on why it would be small vessel disease, citing the fact that I'm only 43, not over 60, I don't have high blood pressure, I'm not diabetic, my cholesterol is excellent, I don't smoke and I don't drink, all he could say was, "Well, yeah, I really can't explain that."  He prescribed a daily aspirin, an exam by an opthamologist "because you are getting to that age when people start having problems with 'old eyes'", and to return for an EMG to follow-up on the possible small fiber neuropathy.  He was in the room with me for LESS THAN 10 MINUTES!!  (And, yes, I purposefully...and accurately...timed it).  My overall impression was that the guy was a jerk who was more concerned with pushing me out the door than diagnosing me and/or answering my questions.  I'm so ticked that I can barely contain myself.  To think I paid good money for that!!!  Tomorrow morning I'm going to call the large teaching hospital that's 2 hours from me to see if I can get an appt. with a Neuro down there.  If I can get in there, I'm planning to take the Rad's reading and my MRI disc with me so they can see it but, honestly, even though I don't have a lot of "spare" money to spend, I hope to hell that they want to do their own MRI.  If nothing else, it'll be worth the out of pocket expense just to see if my hunch is right that the one done locally is as crappy as the reading was.
Helpful - 0
1475492 tn?1332884167
"Second, the radiologist may see the lesion and interpret it as a normal finding.  This is exactly one of the factors that delayed my diagnosis of MS for over two years.  If the neurologist agrees that the lesion is not a lesion at all and is normal for the patient, the patient will be told the MRI is negative (and I was!)  Sometimes this will be that the lesions are seen and attributed to something else, like age (even as young as 30!  Not!), high blood pressure (even though the patient didn't ever have high BP!), migraines (yes, even without a history of migraines), smoking (an overcall, smoking is only a minor factor in causing lesions), obesity (??????????), etc.  It my case the classic MS lesion was dubbed a UBO - "Unidentified Bright Object."  I was told they "happen a lot at my age."

She questioned it --- she clarifies this somewhere else in the health pages as well.

I think it is not wise to think you KNOW exactly what you are looking at but it is wise to review your images and familiarize yourself then ASK. The bottom line is these doctors are busy and likely to miss things in relying on the software programs to pick up on these lesions...when we have the discs in our hot little hands and are able to spend the time to look at them and see if anything stands out. It's your body. It's your brain. Ask your Neuro and get answers.

This is a two part test as well - if you aren't comfortable asking your doctor then the doctor/patient relationship is not strong; and, if you get a doctor who isn't willing to look with you then their loyalties aren't with the patient themselves but other areas (like relying on other doctor's impressions that may/may not be correct.) This will now be my test in who is the right doctor for me. I am seeking an independent compassionate out of the box critical thinker, not a "what she said" doctor.

I am sorry, there have been far too many mistakes made within my care for me to not be assertive. IMO, not reviewing your own tests (ALL of them) is not being an active member in your own healthcare.
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1394601 tn?1328032308
Helpful - 0
1475492 tn?1332884167
That's not true Suman, Quix wrote herself in the health pages that she mentioned to one or more of her Neuro's an unusual "artifact" that seemed to make it's way over several MRI's. They continued to chalk that lesion up to an artifact when in fact it was a lesion.

I am also a firm believer if you have the capability to understand these things then familiarize yourself with your body just like you do your lab results (they send them to you for a reason) and look at body.

I had a missed lesion on two MRI reports - it is in the periventricular region (on my profile) and clear as day in my mind. I'm really surprised it was missed. Had I not pointed it out to my MSologist it still would be a clear MRI. As it stands, it's non-specific but it is SOMEthing she said.

I also have a suspicious "artifact" that shows on multiple slices in my cerebellum. The MRI is crappy so she will take a closer look at it when we redo with a 3T machine. I asked about that to her as well. She clarified that some of my questionable areas were veins but that she would really like to redo the MRI's on the better machine.
Helpful - 0
1394601 tn?1328032308
We have on our board both a medical doctor and an engineer that is a troubleshooter for his firm for the equipment used ...cscans, MRI;s, etc.  Both have an extensive background and I have never heard either trying to read an MRI for any member on the board.

I do know there is a huge difference between having a radiologist read an MRI and having a neuro/radiologist read it.  It sounds like you have had a radiologist do the read therefore are not getting a full picture. Both of these kinds of professionals make the big bucks due to their years of study in medical school.  To think anyone can read their own without that education is just not understandable to me.

Wait and see the neuro.  If he is smart he will have a neuro/radiologist read it or if MS is his specialty, he may understand exactly what he is looking at...

I hope you get answers.  The wait can be agonizing.
Helpful - 0
1251333 tn?1445218215
Hiya!

If you get another chance to have another MRI?  Do it.  Especially if you can get to intoa 3T machine.

Also, I see a lot of people discourtage us from "reading" our own MRIs.  That kinda concerns me because...I am not one to sit by and let a doctor, who may or may not have my best interests at heart...when they are pressured by insurance companies to get in and get out of the exam room - decide if he/she does or does not agree with the RADIOLOGISTS report without EVER looking at the films.

To this point, I will tell you this...which is my own opinion based on my own experience.  If you are going to do the research to see and know what a lesion looks like....LOOK AT THE FILMS WITH YOUR NEURO.  Together.  If they'll take the time.

I had a fab neuro and we did this with every new MRI.  She showed me what the structures were (granted I have more of a background than most MSers).  She showed me WHERE my lesions were. She showed me what to look for.  She showed me how to tell if I had brain atrophy.  She showed me a lot.

And, to her credit, I can "read" my MRIs - so to speak.

And, I will have you know that the high and mighty "radiologists" miss stuff....and even get it wrong.

I get my MRIs at a teaching college.  In a research machine. And my first MRI was read by the radiologist who taught my Neuro.

Can you IMAGINE the neuro's surprise when I went into the exam room, with my CD and report in hand and said, "She missed some lesions."

Can you imagine her surprise when we looked at the CD together and she saw...what the radiologist missed....and I caught?

What if I didn't know my own brain, Cervical or T spine lesions?  What if she never looked at the films? What if she totally dismissed me because she thought I didn't know?

Every single time I walk into the exam room - she straightens up like a kid before the teacher because she knows....I'm not a patient to be placated by the usual mumbo jumbo.  She will state "I know you've studied your MRI".  She listens.  Which, all to often, doesn't happen with MSers (and others) because we are known for complaining.  Some docs shut down after a while.

I have strong feelings on patients being educated.  It is my personal opinion that we need to learn, understand and know.  Not just be told, or spoon fed, by a physician.

To that end - I'm on the other side of the fence about learning to read your own MRIs and I hope you are encouraged to do a lot of learning.  :-)

Oh - and a neuro once told me that the corpus callosum is like a buffet.  Lots of good stuff for those MS munching cells to munch on.  That's where we see the "Dawson's fingers".

.Jen.
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572651 tn?1530999357
that kind of error does nothing for confidence in your lab work.  Perhaps you go the wrong rsults?  You never know.

As for reading the MRI yourself, unless you are highly trained, I wouldn't advise it. The spots you are seeing may something entirely different than lesions.  Be sure to ask your doctor.

Good luck with the neuro on Thursday.  It's a bit late to second guess about the choice of doctors. If you want that second opinion, it will be worth the drive.
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Avatar universal
Hmmm...like I haven't already been questioning the quality of the work that was done during my MRI and the poor reading from the Radiologist, I decided to take another peek at the films tonight prior to my Neuro appointment on Thursday and what do you think that I noticed???

They have the WRONG birthdate printed right on my films!  I also realized that once they got me back to the MRI unit, they never once confirmed that I was the right patient, birthdate, etc.  If they didn't follow even the most basic techniques of patient ID and safety, sure makes me wonder what else they should have been doing, and weren't, in order to get the best study possible.
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Avatar universal
Yes, I did get the disc and you are right - the Radiologist did do a poor job of reading the films.  I stopped counting after I identified 7 lesions on just one "slice" of the study.  I know that the report says " no TYPICAL Dawson's fingers", meaning, I suppose that finger-like lesions could be present but not look "typical", but a few of the lesions do appear ovoid and finger-like so it'll be interesting to see what the Neuro thinks.

I will say, too, that I was shocked at the rather "fuzzy" quality of some portions of the study.  Not nearly as clear as many of the MRI's I've found on the internet.  Oh, and yes, I'm very careful of what I believe on the web.  I stick with trusted sites like The Mayo Clinic, National Institute of Health, etc.

I do sort of kick myself now for not requesting that I be referred to a large teaching hospital nearby for testing & follow-up.  I just really didn't want the 2 hour drive.  Now I wish I had.  Oh well, I suppose I can always go there as back-up for a second opinion if I'm not getting answers locally.
Helpful - 0
198419 tn?1360242356
You are very welcome.
The imaging is only once piece to the puzzle, but you are on your way.  M is a clinical dx, but in terms of thoroughness in imaging, the neuro may order new, and under different protocol than was originally ordered.
Heck, with those results, I wouldn't be surprised if neuro wanted a completely different facility to do good work.
Important to keep in mind (especially because of the vast www) not all those who claim professional or expert are accurate, unfortunately.

Did you pick up your film and report yesterday?
-Shell
p.s. don't try to read those images yourself, ya hear! hahaha See you around
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Avatar universal
Thank you SO much for your response.  I feel very comfortable with my PCP &, as you said, she is making certain to get me follow-up care.  She seemed very distressed by the radiologist's LACK of information.  I'm actually very glad to hear that you felt he should have ID'd the number & locations of the lesions.  From what research I've done on the Internet, those are very important factors in making a diagnosis & I was wondering why he didn't provide that info, too.

My PCP suggested that I make arrangements to get my films & take them with me to the Neuro appt so that he can view them for himself.  I'm picking them up first thing tomorrow.  I hope that they are in a format that I can see them as I'm just curious to have some idea what they look like before seeing the Neuro.  Hopefully, he will be able to shed more light on what it all means.
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198419 tn?1360242356
GhostH,

My labs read like a picture of heath too when I went to the doc w/problems. :( I can relate a bit to how you feel about whats going on.

Your doctor is good and right. The report is vague, detailess actually (i.e., no number, size, or specific location), and you'll be served well by moving on to a neuro to look into the imaging and other possibly causes of your current problems. A poor radiologist left out a lot, and listed the possibilities, but the neuro will clinically correlate your problems with the imaging. So no worries - you are moving on and the neuro will address that.

This may not be MS, it could be something else. But, your general doc is definitely working on getting you further care too.  The neuro should be asking you questions, not the other way around for this 1st visit. You just describe what you are experiencing and what led you to him, or her.

Thanks for joining us!
-Shell
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