What do women really want?

[DLG5]

Ok,  This question has been asked since the beginning of time.   Women,   answer it please!

In my 50 short years on this planet,  and perhaps the last 30 or so as an adult Male,  I have seen, watched and been in relationships with the opposite sex.    Never has any woman been consistent in what they want from a Man.

1.   You say you want us to be sensitive,  but if we cry at any time, we are weak and spineless.
2.   You say you want us to lead,  but when we try to, then we are mean and dominating.
3.   You ask for our advice, and then seem to use it as a gauge for measuring what "not" to do.
4.   "Honey, does this dress make me look fat?".   Do you really expect us to answer that question??  If we say "Yes", we're in big trouble,  If we say "No", you don't believe us and change the dress anyway.  You put us in a "no win" situation!
5.   All husbands, HATE when you bring them a spoonful of something and say:  "Honey, taste this and see if it's bad".  Well Hell woman,  what if it IS??   I DON'T WANT IT IN MY MOUTH!
6.   Laidies,  Men cleaning the toilet and washing the dishes is not "foreplay". (you'll have to think about that one to get it)
7.   We have feelings that can be hurt,  and even if we don't show them like you do, we have them.
8.   You expect us to change light bulbs,  clean the garage,  repair the car,  mow the grass and fix the house and earn a living  because as a man "that's our job",  but when we expect the favor returned in the bedroom,  suddenly "we don't deserve it" because your feelings were hurt when he didn't return a phone call or some other minor offense.

So,  please try to answer the question:  "What do women really want",  because to all men since the beginning of time, it is apparent that it cannot be answered because none of you know what you want, and/or what you want changes minute to minute.

Donald the frustrated.

[alienshadow]

Don i am a man and have read this entire thread good god man.I feel for you i have put my wife through hell but in her good faith she did exactly what you did but you didnt follow through. She left me a long book in it was all of her hatetred and love for me.To be honest with you it was the best thing to ever happen to me. It set me straight man and from that moment i knew exactly what she wanted from me.See i am no saint i have done my wrong and rights .What i am trying to say is tell her man if you havent already but do it on the spur of the moment surprise her. When my wife did this to me it opened my eyes i dont really know how i lost her but i did. She knew that and she sat back and put up with my shitt. But when she spoke i listened and i can tell you i will never ever do anything to ruin what i have. Plus we have two kids together and i never want to lose them and she treats her stepdaughter like she is hers also. Don goodluck this short version of my story may not make since but to me it does

[Ceela]

The answer to your question is simple.  Every single one of us wants something different.  We are as individual as our fingerprints and the key is to find the print that most closely matches yours.  An example is...I can't stand clingy control freaks...they make me feel smothered and sometimes just plain tired of trying to reassure all of their insecurities.  Therefore I married an independent confident man who doesn't need me to hold his hand every five minutes but is reassured by a "We good?" "Yep!" kind of conversation.  My sister is the exact opposite.  She is what I consider very needy and wraps around her husband like Kudzu.  He doesn't seem to mind though because they have been married almost 20 years.  They match!!!  Just like my husband and I match each other but he would strangle my sister in about a week.  You don't need to ask "What do women want " you need to ask "What does MY WOMAN want."  :)

[DLG5]

Well, actually yes. This kind of (what seems to be) irrational behaviour happens on a daily basis.  

However, I have been in counseling for about 2 months now and there has been signs of improvement.  I have learned so much about the "why" of her actions and the "root" cause so to speak.  I have learned that so many of her actions are triggered by guilt.  She feels guilty for the things she does and when I defuse certain situations that would normally start an argument,  she feels even more guilty.  I have been able to defuse every attempt to start an argument lately and it seems to be helping things at our house.  (I believe) she is starting to see  (ever so slowly) that the things we used to argue about are stupid, useless things, and she has drastically reduced the attempts to start an argument.  She has stopped using the "key words" that she knows irritate me and/or stopped pushing the "buttons" she used to push, as it were.   Generally things have started to calm down and it's been heaven.  

I know it's only the beginning of a longer process;  I haven't started nudging her yet towards cleaning the house up, or working on our intimacy, but that will come when I think she's ready.  Change is very scary to her I think, even good change.  I have to slowly nudge her out of her "comfort zone" so she doesn't resist so much,  until finally her "scary zone" becomes her comfort zone, a little at a time.

Thanks everyone,  I hope to keep this thread open to keep you apprised of what's going on.  You have helped me in many ways.

Don

[txsilver]

Ok, I am jumping in late, but I have to write because a few red flags are going off over spilled milk.  That is not normal.  I grew up with that kind of parent only the anger was at me.  Drop a fork, spill some milk, look at the TV during dinner (why was it even on if I could not look at it?) all meant harsh spankings.  My mother was a victim as much as my brother and I were victims.  
Are there lots of incidents like this?  Do you feel like you are walking on egg shells all the time never knowing when the next land mine will be triggered?

[Jame0223]

I didn't mean you almost had me going, like I almost believe you. I meant that you almost had me crying! lol

[Agiesmom]

I wish Don's wife could post and tell things from her perspective.  From Don's list of faults and the comments in Don's letter, stating that he knows she's thinking the same about him, I'd guess that while she sounds like a horrible tyrant, totally miserable and unloving, scaring and being mean to everyone, I suspect her perspective would be very different.

I hope things work out for you, Don.

[RockRose]

Don,  your last post with the spilled milk was so illuminating. I was picturing you like my brother in law who's a sweet,  nice guy but he was unable to realize he was 1/2 the problem in his marriage - and they are now divorced.  I've been picturing you wrong.

Does your wife know about the spilled milk thing?  I'm picturing you and your boys with heads ducked running from bunker to bunker in your house,  and it's been that way so long it doesn't seem abnormal - and it doesn't even seem fixable to you at this point.

You look like a man's man.  You look like the kind of man who could run a marina,  or a large mechanics shop,  and be in complete charge - with virtually no one ever challenging your authority.  That's what you look like.  If I went to a mechanic shop and had a problem with service,  and you walked up,  I'd think oh there's the guy in charge - we'll be able to get a resolution here.  

I think you need to take charge at home.  Your home is caustic,  and it's sad that your wife is so unhappy,  but that's enough reeming out the kids for nothing.  That's enough of everyone walking around on eggshells.  " I love you and want to work with you on our marriage,  but I'm not going to tolerate the boys protecting me anymore.  They deserve better, "

Best wishes.  Take charge,  make that appointment,  and protect your kids from this.

[Agiesmom]

Good plan, Don!

And  I don't think anyone thought you were trying to fool anyone...I read Jame's comment to mean that you almost had her crying, but I could be wrong.

You are right--as you can see from the replies, there's no one way to be or one thing to say that will get to the heart of every woman and you do know your wife best, so definitely go with your heart!

I hope you can find out what it is she wants/needs in order for her to go to get help for her problems (emotional hurt and OCD, as well).

Keep us updated--let us know how she receives your letter!

[DLG5]

I just re-read the posts after my one from yesterday.  If I follow everyone's advice,  I won't send the letter at all!  :)  Two of you have me removing pretty much everything between "Dear XXXXXX and Love, Don"

I appreciate your comments and please keep them coming, but concerning the letter, I know her better than any of you so I'll have to follow my heart on this one.

[DLG5]

LOL.  You guys are a riot!  I don't know how the conversation went there!  I have had gastrointenstinal issues since adulthood,  and it isn't easy to "run and find a safe spot" all the time.  I can almost fart on command!  lol

Anyway, all kidding aside, Jame0223, I don't know what you mean by "you almost had me going".  Everything I've written here is what's in my heart and mind, and I'm not trying to "fool" any of you.  I don't feel like I'm trying to "fix" her,  I'm trying to help her.   I have problems, sure, but judging from my sons opinions and comments, she does have a serious issue.  My sons come to me for affection and affirmation, not to her.  She often berates them over the smallest things, just like she does me.  I hurt for them sometimes.   They have even tried to defend me when I for example might spill a little milk on the counter,  and she comes charging in "WHO SPILLED THIS MILK?"  and one of my boys says he did it and takes the blame to protect me.  I tell them not to do it, but the point is, they see the problem too.

I am in counseling for the last couple of months, by myself, to try and get a different outlook on life for myself, because I don't see her changing her ways anytime soon.  I invited her to go with me and she refused.  So ladies,  what you see here is what I am.  No faking, no lies to get sympathy.  If I were to lie here in this annonymous forum, what would be the point?!

I just want to be happy,  and I want her to be a part of it.  It is difficult to be happy when the most important person in your life is not, and seems to put a lot of effort into things counter-productive to that end. She wakes up angry and goes to sleep angry.  What can I do with that?

My ultimate goal is to get her to a psychiatrist for counseling and medication, but how do I accomplish that when she automatically resists everything I say or do?  So I am trying to start at the grass roots level and just make a better relationship between the two of us first.  This forum and your replies and comments are to help me better understand a woman's viewpoint in order to do that.

Thanks,

Don

ps, you guys can call me Don instead of Donald.  Using Donald at first was just being more formal.  

  

[Jaybay]

I really didn't get the impression that he wants to "fix" her.  What I hear is a man who loves his wife and wants to HELP her.  I don't think a laundry list of "faults" on both sides is all that helpful.  Donald, you know your wife far better than anyone else on this forum.  Put yourself in her shoes and try to imagine how she would react.  Take it from there.  I thought it was lovely myself.

On to the subject of bodily emanations, now I'm really cracking up!  For the first 10 years of our relationship, hubby and I were most polite about it all.  Public "slipsies" were first ignored and later giggled at, but serious colon-clearing, emergency, honest-go-God seat-ripping farting was done in private.  Until I got sick.  I defy anyone, man or woman, who has a bad gallbladder to even think about not letting one fly wherever and whenever necessary.  My mother always told us, "You won't die if you hold it until you can get to a bathroom!"  HA!  She still has her gallbladder.  What does she know?  :-O

The first time I felt control going out the door (and other places as well) in front of my husband, I had about a one-second warning of the danger we were both in.  In that one second, I realized I had a choice.  Make my father proud that I'm his daughter, or make my mother hide her head in shame.  I went with good old Dad.  I have no doubt I topped anything he ever produced in his 64 years, and Hubby will back me on that statement.  I even managed to pull off Dad's theatrics at the same time.  I looked over at hubby with an eagle eye, pointed my finger at him, and... I'm certain you get the rest.  Hubby about fell over in hysterics, and that one incident completely blew away 10 years of polite tooting.  From that moment to this, it has been all-out war in this house.  If only I'd gone with Mom in that one second.

Beans, beans they're good for your heart....  :-D

[Happy2girls]

Excuse me for jumping into a thread that I haven't been part of....Interesting thread by the way....I agree with RockRose that women love compliments but I think that maybe you should not write anything in there about her body if sex or the lack of has been a problem.  She may misinterpret your intentions with such a statement.  Just my opinion.  I think you rock, Donald, for being so open about this.    

[RockRose]

Oh GOOD!  You haven't given it to her?  *gets out red marking pencil*

Scratch this completely.  There's nothing in this passage that will help you:

" I believe that things happen for a reason, and my marriage to you could very well have been orchestrated by God because you needed someone like me that has stayed with you through all of this and bring you through it.  (Not many other men would have stayed) "

And put in something about how hot her bod is.  You said it,  you believe it,  put it in there.   Your gorgeous body still gets my jets revved like when we first met.  Something like that.  Women like to hear stuff like that,  especially when it's obvoiusly true for you.

Best wishes.  

[Jame0223]

Oh and I have to add. When anyone enters a relationship, either person is too nervous to use those bodily functions! Or if they do there's got to be an excuse me! I remember the very first time my boyfriend farted in front of me. He actually was picking me up and it slipped...but I could tell he was terribly embarassed. Its been 2 and a half years...and now its like a contest! He doesn't give a hoot about it anymore..I really don't care, unless he over does it. I think its this way in every relationship. Haha I dunno...

And by the way. You sound exactly like my dad! Except for the old girlfriends, and the phone calls...but the garage and the bodily functions and the snoring! Those things I think are semi-normal lol.

[Jame0223]

Gosh Don...you had me going! I almost cried which would have been totally embarassing since I'm at work. The letter was lovely. I agree with the other ladies though. You should add the list.

But ya know...when you see her walk through the door..or when you get home from work do you greet each other? If you don't then maybe the next time you see you should just go up to her and hug her. Tell her you love her, give her a kiss (even if its on the forehead) The littlest thing can make the biggest difference. I know that if I am in a bad mood and my honey comes up and gives me a big hug...I just feel better. Maybe you should try that? If you don't greet her. It will open her eyes to her husband. Good luck Don...were pullin for you.

[DLG5]

Thanks everyone,  I haven't given her the letter yet, so I can still make those changes.  Also great to get a woman's reaction and point of view.  I would not have noticed those things were it not for your replies.  Thanks again so much.  

Don

[Agiesmom]

Hmmm...good points, RR.  Hadn't really thought about that--the tone of sounding like he wants to try to fix her.  I was more looking at it from Donald's POV and the fact that he's making an effort, acknowledges her pain, is there for the long haul, etc., but I do see that now after re-reading it.  And I agree, Donald...add your faults in there, too, and say you want both of you to work together to get back to being loving, accepting, and supportive of each other.  Also, I think I'd omit the part where other guys would be long gone (and your comment that she thinks the same about you)--that's just not conducive to a positive outcome.

And yes...your heart is definitely in the right place!

[RockRose]

Donald,  you seem like a truly likeable guy,  who is really making a supreme effort to help her,  and make this work out.  I really mean that,  from the bottom of my heart.

I liked your first attempt much better with your list of your own faults.  From your last letter,  it's clear that you've had the conversations before that are in that letter,  because you know how she'll respond,  and you wrote it there.

What comes across loud and clear in your letter is you love her,  you want to make this work, and you are open to all suggestions to make your marriage better.  Good job.  But what also comes across very loud and clear is that you think she's the problem,  and that she's so wounded that she isn't a good wife,  and you completely understand the cause of that because her family is sucky.  And that you are really interested in working together to fix her.  She's heard all that before,  Donald.

What she hasn't heard is your list of stuff you have failed with.   I think that list would bring her to tears.

I hope the others are right,  and this will open her heart,  but I think it's going to cause a fight.

Your heart is so in the right place.

Best wishes.

[Agiesmom]

You made me cry, Donald!

I really hope she responds positively to it!  Your "happiness is a journey, not a destination" comment was a point in Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.  Love it!

Let us know how it goes.  Maybe give it to her with some flowers.  :)

[Jaybay]

Quite simply, I love it.  :-)

[DLG5]

Ok, I copied and pasted my letter to her.  Here's what I wrote.  Do you think it is fair?


Dear XXXXXXX

I’ve never written you about the subject I’m about to write you about,  and I think it’s about time.  Perhaps you will realize that maybe I understand some things a little more than you realize.   One of my life’s goals is to make you happy.  If you are happy, then I am happy.  It’s really that simple.

You have been through more pain and suffering in your life than any human being should be allowed.  Much of it before I met you, but a lot of it after.  Things that have nothing to do with us, but with your family and growing up.  Terrible things. (Here is where you will say “You too!”,  and you’re right,  and I need your love and comfort to get over those hurts in my childhood)  

I know you hurt inside so much.  I know you suffer every single day being tormented by memories.  Memories that you seems to hold on to and can't get over.  It feels like you have saved all those awful memories and keep piling and piling them one after another on top of what's already there.  Every hurt I cause,  every pain I cause you gets piled upon all the years and years of the other hurts and trauma that's already there.  They get all mixed together into one big single Hurt, indistinguishable from each other but just one huge traumatic pain.  I can understand the "why" at times; it's just impossible for me to help you.  I can't get in!  Especially since I am a contributor to that big pile of hurt.  

I want to help you, I want to be a husband and friend to you, but I just can't get in!!!  I believe that things happen for a reason, and my marriage to you could very well have been orchestrated by God because you needed someone like me that has stayed with you through all of this and bring you through it.  (Not many other men would have stayed) (Right here is where you will say “That goes both ways!”) (And you’re right again)  I just don't know how to get into your heart.

I really don’t believe that helping you to become happy is just by following a set of rules or requirements that you set for me. It’s much more than that.   Happiness has to come from inside you,  not from your surroundings.  Happiness is a state of mind, not a state of reaching some unreachable goal.  You don’t “arrive” at happiness, you make it your journey!

I am your husband, your helper, your friend, your confidante.  Let me into your heart so we can find that elusive balance that will bring us happiness together.  

Love,

Don

[DLG5]

Well,  I've sent her numerous letters in the past, but never really addressing the subject that I did in the previous post.  

I could try another one I suppose.  It is good advice,  and I think I will do it.  I'll let you know her response.  Thanks again ladies.

Donald   (Don)

[Agiesmom]

ITA.  You seem to really understand her and telling her so in a letter may help her to realize that.  Then she can re-read it and think about it, too.

[RockRose]

I think that was very insightful,  Donald,  and I think you should write that post in the form of a letter to her.  

Best wishes.