Armour Thyroid - Still Trying to Beat the "Uglyness of Hashi"...

[Rafaella]

Ok, "Hashi" people, please, read and advice if you can...

I am between the ugly and the bad, and need advice ASAP, as my appt with endo in a few weeks..

I have posted my little story a while ago, but here is the extension of it..

I was placed on Armour Thyroid about 2-10 months ago, the initial dose was 60 mg.

From TSH of 4.1 to 3.9, than, up to 4.1 again. I was increased the dose to 90 mg about 2 months ago, and my TSH

came down to 1.56, and WENT UP AGAIN  in one month to unbelievable 3.27!!!!

Here is the thing: I am NOT taking any other meds, I am not taking vitamins, and I  have cut down on my  coffee to 1 cup/day.

I take Armour in the morning, and wait at least one hour before I eat anything...

My legs are like rocks, heavy and sore, my  hands and fingers are NUMB and PAINFUL at all times, I cannot perform a simple task, such as pealing popatoes or writing a note without getting painful spasms... NO INJURY on neck or back occured at any given times..

My energy is down the drain, I can sleep 24/7. The idea of taking shower  makes me tired, without even doing it...

I am NOT leazy, I jus want my life back... At least, some parts of it, where I was more alive and able to think, a little more than now...

Hashi is a struggle for me.. I am not sure if Armour is working or not.. I hate to be switched to synthetic meds :(

My endo goes by numbers, and please, don't tell me that there are some docs that are nice and are NOT looking at your numbers, prior to upping the doses - this is simple not true. I work in the hospital, and my docs care LESS if your TSH is under 1.0 or 3.5. Simple as that...

Of course, there are some docs that care for our symptoms, yet, the proportion of those is 1/100,000.

Please, advice if you are on Armour, I am SO tired of feeling bad and FOGGY...

Thank you
Rafaella.

[laura1967]

Everything stella has said is correct. The MOST important thing right now is the fact that you are hypo and under medicated. You need an increase.
Unfortunately with hashimotos, you can never tell when your thyroid is going to be destroyed further and need higher dosage of meds. You just have to pay attention to symptoms. You should be looking at your free t3 and free t4 levels moreso than the tsh. Yes the free t3 should be high normal and free t4 should be mid to low normal range.

[stella5349]

Well it is a very nice thing to say - but I am far from an expert on this medication. I understand it - and do very well on it - bit as Anca said - there are individuals that require either adding a T4 - going on T4 alone - or changing up their doses of their Armour to get the best results.

Watching your levels of the Free T3 and TSH - with making sure your T4 is moderately low is most important and comparing them to your symptoms.

If you swollow the Armour then it is best to follow the same directions as any other thyroid medication. ( that would be taking it on an empty stomach) then eat approx 1 hr later.) Be aware though that if this is the decision you choose - you may loose some of the mgs in your dosage and most likely you will not get your full dosage distributed in your body.

Armour was not created to do it sublingually, but one of the binding additives ( Dextrose (sugar–allows you to do it sublingually) This is a benefit to some and was for me. I like the fact I can take my Armour sublingually because my stomach does not need to produce through the mediation - so that give me the flexability to eat and drink whenever I want to. Also I found taking my Synthroid and also after my switch to Armour my stomach felt very irratated swollowing any meds -  I know longer have any stomach issues per say.

I then had to find the splitting part throughout the day that was best for me.

After a year of being on the med I know when I need more or less - so I have the flexability with my doctor to take 90mgs to 150mgs. Given a month time I can average it out to about 90mgs each day - but I do need more at times.  The reason is I believe after I had RAI for Graves in 2003 I STILL have "some" thyroid function normally. AND with Hashi TPO's in my body - some days they "chose" to attack more than others. It is a constant balancing act for me every day.  Learning how to balance it for me gets me though about a whole cycle of a month very well 90% of the time.

Yes I still have "off" days.

So at first I tried the higher dos ( as reccommended)  (60mg) in the AM then 30mg at 11 and if needed 30 more in the afternoon.

I found that horrible for me - so I cut back and went to 30mgs each dosage throughout the day. That has been best - but I cannot take it after 3pm - if I do I have trouble sleeping at night.

My TSH was considerable lower than yours and my Free T3 was much higher in March and I am testing again this Thursday.

I feel much better when I am lower TSH and higher Free T3 and my Hashi antibodies do not seem to over pronounce themselves when I am in those levels.

In many Armour patients, if you are on the BOTH lower ends of normal on the Free T3 and FT4 then you will experience problems still.

The scale should be higher Free T3 to Lower Free T4 with a moderately low TSH (sometimes classified as in the hyper ranges)  Most Armour patients will say they feel at their best within those ranges.

[Rafaella]

There are different sources on Armour and its administration times. Of course, the endo says " in am, at least one hour  before meal.." Many "other" sources state ,"  2/3  of the dose in am, and 1/3 in pm ..." Again, both before meal. SOME OTHER sources recommend to take Armour 1/2 after breakfast, and 1/2 after dinner. So many different recommendations.

So, is it on empty stomach or full?? Which IS IT?

As far as my other labs of t3 and t4, I am on the lower normal side of them. Please, see the copy of my previous posting from earlier time.  I have submitted a very detailed info on my labs.

by Rafaella

,"Sep 15, 2008 12:50PM
To: Armour comment: my lab results
HI, everyone,

My labs AS OF   08/05

Thyroid Peroxidase Ab 580.0

Thyroglobylin Antibody  32.5

T4, Free 0.98

TSH 4.13

Thiiodotothyronine, Free   2.9 - I think, this is T3, Free


On 09/13 my TSH is 1.6. And this are all labs I have so far.

I am on 90 mg of armour at this time.

Thanks, again everyone for your input!!! "



Additional info:

Continue on Armour 90 mg po q day, my TSH = 1.56 on 09/13 and TSH = 3.27 on 10/10.

I believe, I am getting tested appropriately, except, I did not have any hormonal levels done in the past. I was tested for pm cortisol level , by serology, but not the saliva test.

I can immediately tell , when I am going up with my TSH , I feel tired and groggy, very sleepy and sluggish.
Also,  I am experiencing a lot of pains in my lower legs and upper torso..

my fingertips are numb and painful all time time.

I guess, this concludes my program... LOL

[anca77]

I agree with utahmomma, we all different and the same medication will not work for everybody.  I personally started with Levothyroxine, then switched to Armour and then I added Synthroid to the 60 mcg of Armour I was already taking. So now, with a combination of synthetic and natural medication I am doing well, I do not want to say it's great as I just started one week ago.  So, for me, the combination of two completely different medications seems to work better than just taking only one type.
Stella is the expert on Armour, so I followed her advice in taking it three times during the day, the Synthroid I take in the morning.
I do have Hashi and I also supplement with vitamin C and the Bs.

[stella5349]

It doesn't sound like you are taking your Armour appropriately - nor are you splitting your dosages.

It also doesn't sound - or at least I dont see your labs that you are getting tested correctly. Do you have Free T3 and Free T4 lab results? Post them.  

Have you gone further into any testing on adrenal fatigue. If your adrenals are shot your Armour will not work as intended.

If what you say is correct - meaning you are OK after a small increase then crash in a couple of weeks - you are not at an optimal dose and something possible like adrenals are the issue.

So my advice take a simple ACTH and cortisol test - see where your cortisol levels are then if all is OK -

Start spliting your Armour through out the day - early morning - mid morning and early afternoon. (30 mgs) each right now before yur test again.

The most biologically effective and direct way to take Armour is sublingually.
i.e. you place the tablet under your tongue, or between your gums and inner cheek

And - keep in mind if your adrenal are fine - increases  (1/4 grain) will be needed every two weeks until optimal levels are reached.

[utahmomma]

Not a Hashi's sufferer but have an entire family with Hashi's.  Everyone is different with their meds.  I was on Synthroid for a long time (couldn't take generic) and it worked great.  I asked to be switched to Armour and it's okay - not a miracle drug for me.  Maybe a switch to a T3 med (like Synthroid) would work better with your body.  We are all different.

If Armour isn't working for you it's worth a try with the T4.  You may have to try a few different formulations until you find the one that's right for you.

Hang in there - it's a long journey but we're all on it with you.

Utahmomma
papillary carcinoma